Author Topic: The Jazz Thread  (Read 111332 times)

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Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #210 on: March 17, 2011, 05:25:08 PM »
Hmmm, Meditations was already on my list of albums to buy. Might have to shunt it up.

Offline SPNKr

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #211 on: March 18, 2011, 04:16:02 AM »
You gotta. I'm head over heels for that album. Listened to it today and it clicked for me too.

Offline ytserush

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #212 on: March 19, 2011, 07:51:01 PM »
John Coltrane - Ascension - incredible album, and will definitely become one of my favourites by Coltrane. Pharoah Sanders' solo is one of the eeriest things I've ever heard done with an instrument.

I've neglected this album for far too long. I think tomorrow is a good time to fix that.

Perhaps I'll follow that with Meditations.....

Offline SPNKr

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #213 on: March 19, 2011, 10:31:00 PM »
^Maybe no better combo in jazz!

Right now, I'm chaining Kind Of Blue into Giant Steps.

Offline Iarwain

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #214 on: March 20, 2011, 09:16:50 AM »
I always feel like I have to be in a very specific mood to listen to Ascension and fully appreciate the whole piece. Which may be why I rarely listen to it, even though it's one of my favorite Coltrane album.

Offline dongringo

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #215 on: March 20, 2011, 10:44:23 AM »
I listen to the Village Vanguard recordings more than any other Coltrane album. Playing live is where jazz artists shine.
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Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #216 on: March 20, 2011, 12:44:39 PM »
Listened to Karma today for the first time. Pretty stunning album. I think I will be checking out Jewels of Thought and Deaf Dumb Blind (I can't be bothered looking up the Arabic title) and Meditations quite shortly.

Offline SPNKr

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #217 on: March 20, 2011, 04:43:34 PM »
I think I'll throw on Karma today. I've got Sketches Of Spain on now. Takes a while for the music to pick up, but you gotta understand its purpose, and that is difficult. I love it anyway.
edit: SOS sort of ends abruptly, oh well. 3rd time listen though.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2011, 05:02:04 PM by SPNKr »

Offline SPNKr

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #218 on: March 22, 2011, 09:22:19 PM »
Bump because I'm listening to The Dave Brubeck Quartet's Time Out again. FUCKING fantastic album! It pretty much explains what jazz is all about if you were to show it to somebody, too.

It is "the" Cool jazz album.

Offline SPNKr

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #219 on: March 25, 2011, 02:47:50 AM »
Anyone who doesn't look into Pat Metheny is a heretic

I got it together this week and checked him out, starting at Bright Size Life and Watercolors. What a spec-TACULAR album BSL is! Not "only" is Pat the star here, but so is Jaco Pastorius on the bass! I wish more bassists will listen to his playing. Next time I spin it, I'll listen in to Pastorius more.

Watercolors is a bit of a hit/miss for me. The solo guitar tracks I didn't like that much compared to the tracks with the band performing. But still, it's Metheny and it didn't stop me from looking for "Pat Metheny Group". Couldn't find it though, must look elsewhere.
Listened to Karma today for the first time. Pretty stunning album. I think I will be checking out Jewels of Thought and Deaf Dumb Blind (I can't be bothered looking up the Arabic title) and Meditations quite shortly.

Remind me to listen to Karma because I said I will, and I didn't that day. Must've forgotten or ran out of time. :\

Offline jsem

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #220 on: March 25, 2011, 02:50:49 AM »
Bump because I'm listening to The Dave Brubeck Quartet's Time Out again. FUCKING fantastic album! It pretty much explains what jazz is all about if you were to show it to somebody, too.

It is "the" Cool jazz album.
True words. Blue Rondo is one of the best tunes in world history. I love playing it.

Offline Zantera

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #221 on: March 25, 2011, 02:52:26 AM »
Don't know that much Jazz sadly, but I love a Swedish band that's partly Jazz, "Bo Kaspers Orkester".
I also know some of the classic John Coltrane songs.  ;)

Offline SPNKr

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #222 on: March 25, 2011, 02:56:54 AM »
In order to "know" jazz, you'll need to be launched into it. :D
But that's cool you know some Coltrane. :tup

Bump because I'm listening to The Dave Brubeck Quartet's Time Out again. FUCKING fantastic album! It pretty much explains what jazz is all about if you were to show it to somebody, too.

It is "the" Cool jazz album.
True words. Blue Rondo is one of the best tunes in world history. I love playing it.
Hell yeah. :tup

Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #223 on: March 25, 2011, 04:03:48 AM »
Something I've been thinking about recently.

I once played a friend a track from Birth of the Cool and he said it sounded like "standard jazz". My brother said the same thing when I was listening to A Love Supreme. A few weeks ago, I played a friend something from Out to Lunch, a fairly individual jazz album, and even that was "just jazz". Anyone who's into jazz (or really, anyone who took the time to listen to them and think about them) could tell you those three albums are completely different.

Jazz is perhaps just as rich and deep a genre as rock, with a huge series of phases and subgenres evolving over decades, and within them a multitude of artists all with their own playing styles. All of which are fairly well identifiable to someone who already has a bit of knowledge to work with. The problem is, most people don't. Not to mention that in jazz, the distinguishing features between subgenres can be much harder to hear for a relative outsider than with a genre like rock. So most jazz just becomes "just straight/normal/standard jazz". Which in reality doesn't exist, or at least arguably, if it did, you'd be looking at late 50s hard bop, which none of the albums I mentioned above are.

Offline SPNKr

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #224 on: March 25, 2011, 04:25:33 AM »
^Yep, good points. There's more to jazz sounding like it always does, which is mainly good, and what the real purpose for certain kinds were. I've recently developed more understanding in that aspect.
I think, for instance, when I got into Coltrane, I really liked what I heard at the time in Kind Of Blue, Blue Train, Giant Steps, A Love Supreme, and Olé Coltrane, but it wasn't enough to keep me interested for a long time as I of course didn't have a developed understanding of the music. I just knew it sounded great and I was new to it.
Like right now, I'm full swing into a jazz phase. Discovering Coltrane's stuff right from the beginning of his solo career has helped me understand how he developed as a player, and how the music evolved around his time. I found maybe the first track he recorded harmonics on, that was cool to hear.
Then I found the first avant-garde performance of him with Don Cherry, pocket trumpeter, and that was also pretty cool because it was a step in his development as a musician. I'm up to his 1961 stuff now I think, so the rest of his discog is all savoured as I listen to the albums step by step.
So if I heard A Love Supreme right now, I'd "get" it almost right away.

I just listened to Pharoah Sanders' Karma tonight, and it was absolutely beautiful and stunning, like you said. Very emotional and spiritual and inCREDIBLE squealing which makes me think of someone crying/screaming their troubles out, but also feels out of this world. It's unbelievable. I have to hear it again in the next day or two. Orgasm in music for sure.

Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #225 on: March 25, 2011, 08:58:54 AM »
I must've listened to Karma about five or six times in the last few days, which I almost never do with an album. Colors seems like a bit of a throwaway, but then The Creator Has a Masterplan is obviously where that album's really at.

I often feel like the lyrics and Eastern yodelling threaten to take it into tacky territory a la a lot of Santana's fusion-era songs that have lyrics, but it manages to pull them off really nicely.

And Sanders' playing is phenomenal. I love how he can go from such a gorgeous lyrical style to dissonant screaming in the same solo and it all makes complete sense. Having said that, his more dissonant side seems relatively restrained on that album, which is probably why it's more accessible and popular than his others. The only part where he really lets loose is in the freer, more chaotic section towards the end (I'd estimate somewhere between 23 and 27 minutes).

Offline SPNKr

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #226 on: March 25, 2011, 08:57:20 PM »
I like most of the vocals and the lyrics. They're very spiritual hehe, and I didn't remember there's a vocalist.
Quote
I love how he can go from such a gorgeous lyrical style to dissonant screaming in the same solo and it all makes complete sense.
I agree.

So do you have Miles In The Sky? It was Davis' first album to feature an electric bassist (and probably the first with an electric guitar). I've listened to it a few times over the past few and I really like it. I should check out more Post-Bop, but I'll definitely be picking Miles' Filles de Kilimanjaro as well.

Offline dongringo

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #227 on: March 25, 2011, 10:41:41 PM »
The Pat Metheny Group is brilliant. I suggest The Way Up. It's a 'concept' album, the concept being that they play with a certain sense of time, in and out, and it keeps coming back to it. It's cut up into Parts 1, 2, 3, and 4. I saw them play it live from start to finish and it was one of the greatest musical experiences of my life.
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Offline SPNKr

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #228 on: March 26, 2011, 05:21:51 AM »
Sketches Of Spain. Fuck, it's hard to really know why it's so good! Onto The Pan Piper now.

Offline PixelDream

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #229 on: March 26, 2011, 06:25:48 AM »
My favorite Jazz album is 'Black Earth' by Bohren und der Club of Gore. German ex- black metal band members gone doom jazz. Amazing, soothing, Sin City/Blade Runner-ish. I love it. I hate fast, tonally complex jazz music. Not enjoyable at all.
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Offline bodiesinflight

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #230 on: March 26, 2011, 08:05:52 AM »
going to see Jaga Jazzist on Wednesday   :tup

also I'm going to work my way through the stuff in this thread. some of it I've heard but most not.

I need to borrow my stepdad's miles davis vinyls again
« Last Edit: March 26, 2011, 08:12:10 AM by bodiesinflight »
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Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #231 on: March 26, 2011, 11:25:27 AM »
Sketches of Spain is definitely a good album, but I never really fell in love with it. The first track is by far the best of the bunch, and even then, I prefer the actual concerto version.

Miles in the Sky is actually one of my favourite Miles albums I've heard so far. I've heard I think twelve, and I'd probably place it third. Really fun, funky jazz album, really good driving first few tracks, with a bit of weirdness in the latter two to keep it interesting.

I tried Bohren und der Club of Gore, and couldn't get into them at all.

Offline ytserush

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #232 on: March 26, 2011, 03:33:25 PM »
Something I've been thinking about recently.

I once played a friend a track from Birth of the Cool and he said it sounded like "standard jazz". My brother said the same thing when I was listening to A Love Supreme. A few weeks ago, I played a friend something from Out to Lunch, a fairly individual jazz album, and even that was "just jazz". Anyone who's into jazz (or really, anyone who took the time to listen to them and think about them) could tell you those three albums are completely different.

Jazz is perhaps just as rich and deep a genre as rock, with a huge series of phases and subgenres evolving over decades, and within them a multitude of artists all with their own playing styles. All of which are fairly well identifiable to someone who already has a bit of knowledge to work with. The problem is, most people don't. Not to mention that in jazz, the distinguishing features between subgenres can be much harder to hear for a relative outsider than with a genre like rock. So most jazz just becomes "just straight/normal/standard jazz". Which in reality doesn't exist, or at least arguably, if it did, you'd be looking at late 50s hard bop, which none of the albums I mentioned above are.


Very good point. It's taken me a lot longer to REALLY get jazz than just about anything else. Maybe it's gotten a little easier to get into different things after I have more of a base to work from, but it still seems to take almost the same amount of work.



I pull out Brubeck's Take Five about once a year and keep hoping I get what other people seem to get out of it. I realize the distinction of it being landmark album and I respect that, but I just haven't been able to get much of anything else out of it consistantly.

Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #233 on: March 26, 2011, 05:02:06 PM »
Very good point. It's taken me a lot longer to REALLY get jazz than just about anything else. Maybe it's gotten a little easier to get into different things after I have more of a base to work from, but it still seems to take almost the same amount of work.
That's really the trick to getting into jazz (and any genre, I guess), building up a base to work from.

When I first started getting into rock seriously in my early teens, I'd already heard a fair bit, because the fact is, rock is widely popular, and it's everywhere. Even buying my first albums, I could identify Oasis, the Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, the Chilis, even older bands like the Beatles, Guns N Roses, Led Zeppelin etc. Just from general knowledge, I had a bit of an idea which bands were older than which, what a rock n roll band sounded like, what rock bands from the late 60s/early 70s, the 80s, and the 90s sounded like. How punk and metal sounded different from rock. I think most people would already know a little bit to navigate themselves, and they could identify differences in styles and eras instinctively fairly well.

With jazz, it's almost never gonna be the case. Of course, everyone's heard it, but no-one has any real pre-knowledge, and you can't really pick artists and styles well by ear, unless you have music training, maybe; it's all just spicy, instrumental music played with brass instruments that has a lot of soloing. Beyond that, the extent of your ability to identify different styles is things like separating pre-50s jazz from 50s-and-later jazz by the production, big-band from smaller groups, and quieter, slower jazz from faster, louder jazz. None of which is all that much to go on.

Which is why it all sounds samey, until you spend some time with it, really delve, build up a body of albums, learn about their context, develop an ear for the differences in the subgenres, and get a sense of orientation within the genre as a whole. It's essentially building the foundation you already have for rock from the beginning.

I pull out Brubeck's Take Five about once a year and keep hoping I get what other people seem to get out of it. I realize the distinction of it being landmark album and I respect that, but I just haven't been able to get much of anything else out of it consistantly.
Well, just like any genre, at the end of the day, it's all about your own taste. I wouldn't say it's my one of favourite jazz albums, although I do like it.

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #234 on: March 26, 2011, 05:29:13 PM »
The Pat Metheny Group is brilliant. I suggest The Way Up. It's a 'concept' album, the concept being that they play with a certain sense of time, in and out, and it keeps coming back to it. It's cut up into Parts 1, 2, 3, and 4. I saw them play it live from start to finish and it was one of the greatest musical experiences of my life.

One of my favorite albums ever

Offline dongringo

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #235 on: March 26, 2011, 06:02:14 PM »
The Pat Metheny Group is brilliant. I suggest The Way Up. It's a 'concept' album, the concept being that they play with a certain sense of time, in and out, and it keeps coming back to it. It's cut up into Parts 1, 2, 3, and 4. I saw them play it live from start to finish and it was one of the greatest musical experiences of my life.

One of my favorite albums ever

You have very good taste.  ;D
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Offline SPNKr

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #236 on: March 26, 2011, 06:56:31 PM »
I pull out Brubeck's Take Five about once a year and keep hoping I get what other people seem to get out of it. I realize the distinction of it being landmark album and I respect that, but I just haven't been able to get much of anything else out of it consistantly.
The song or the Time Out album?

--
Also very good points Fluff, that pretty much explains what it's like to discover genres/new music. Takes lots of time.
Sketches Of Spain was fantastic last night. My teacher suggested I listen to it at least a few more times over the past couple of weeks and it's grown on me for sure. Best listen was last night's for sure. Very spanish sounding and thematic. I wouldn't call it "jazz" as much as big band though.

Bohren's maybe an acquired taste, I only have Black Earth and have heard it maybe once since I got it. Not "that" jazzy as I remember, but it's something else.

Offline PlaysLikeMyung

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #237 on: March 26, 2011, 07:25:49 PM »
The Pat Metheny Group is brilliant. I suggest The Way Up. It's a 'concept' album, the concept being that they play with a certain sense of time, in and out, and it keeps coming back to it. It's cut up into Parts 1, 2, 3, and 4. I saw them play it live from start to finish and it was one of the greatest musical experiences of my life.

One of my favorite albums ever

You have very good taste.  ;D

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Offline dongringo

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #238 on: March 26, 2011, 08:12:24 PM »
The Pat Metheny Group is brilliant. I suggest The Way Up. It's a 'concept' album, the concept being that they play with a certain sense of time, in and out, and it keeps coming back to it. It's cut up into Parts 1, 2, 3, and 4. I saw them play it live from start to finish and it was one of the greatest musical experiences of my life.

One of my favorite albums ever

You have very good taste.  ;D


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Offline SPNKr

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #239 on: March 28, 2011, 04:22:13 AM »
Ahhh.. Nothing gets better than Mingus Ah Um, Miles Smiles, and Free Jazz (the album).

Offline PixelDream

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #240 on: March 28, 2011, 06:45:16 AM »
I pull out Brubeck's Take Five about once a year and keep hoping I get what other people seem to get out of it. I realize the distinction of it being landmark album and I respect that, but I just haven't been able to get much of anything else out of it consistantly.
The song or the Time Out album?

--
Also very good points Fluff, that pretty much explains what it's like to discover genres/new music. Takes lots of time.
Sketches Of Spain was fantastic last night. My teacher suggested I listen to it at least a few more times over the past couple of weeks and it's grown on me for sure. Best listen was last night's for sure. Very spanish sounding and thematic. I wouldn't call it "jazz" as much as big band though.

Bohren's maybe an acquired taste, I only have Black Earth and have heard it maybe once since I got it. Not "that" jazzy as I remember, but it's something else.

Indeed, I thought about it, and maybe it isn't even 'Jazz'. Black Earth is also the only thing I know, but I don't find it hard to get into. It's unevenful, which can be nice sometimes.
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Offline SPNKr

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #241 on: March 28, 2011, 04:45:33 PM »
^I still feel like listening to it sometime this week or at the start of next week. It's so soundtracky and paints a picture in my head. Not a lot of albums do that.
Bohren have a new album, Beileid, coming out in late April.

I've got Lee Morgan's The Sidewinder on now, it's fantastic.

Offline Fluffy Lothario

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #242 on: March 28, 2011, 05:00:18 PM »
That's an album I really wanna hear. I also haven't heard Miles Smiles or Mingus Ah Um.

Listening to Hancock's Mwandishi for the second time today. This album is soooo cool. Very hard to get a firm grip on, as it's VERY spaced out and free jazz-inspired, but a really awesome trip. To me, this album feels in a way like a more faithful continuation of the sound on Bitches Brew than Jack Johnson was. Imagine Miles had delved deeper into the trippier, more ambient side of BB, but also the more primal, tribal, chaotic side, and you have Mwandishi.

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #243 on: March 28, 2011, 05:21:44 PM »
^The Sidewinder ended not long ago, what an album! Do recommend it.
:lol Fuck it, I'll just buy Mwandishi today if it's in the shop. Sounds promising. I read Herbie changed a lot in the 70s too. I'll be putting on Empyrean Isles today as well.

Offline darkshade

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Re: The Jazz Thread
« Reply #244 on: March 28, 2011, 06:33:30 PM »
Miles was never one to stick around to one style for very long. BB is an anomaly in Miles' discography, but a great one at that. The Mwandishi albums take it even further, even approaching electronic music by the time Sextant came around. Eddie Henderson's albums around that time also continue the Mwandishi "tradition" when Herbie was moving to more jazz-funk sound of HH

Listening to "Splendido Hotel" by Al Di Meola right now. Not his best, but some fantastic Spanish-flavored jazz/rock and latin jazz, with a hint of disco in a couple of tracks. 1979 was not the best year for fusion, or jazz in general, but this album ain't bad