Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 437782 times)

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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8785 on: May 12, 2021, 09:11:36 AM »
I don't agree with them, but I'm reluctant to dismiss them outright at this point
But why not?


Because we don't know what we don't know.

I worked in the environmental field for a good 12, 15 years.   I can't tell you how many times I had to explain to a client why PCB's, or TCE, or chloroflourocarbons weren't a problem for 50 years... until they were.  Asbestos.  Thalidomide.   These are more obvious examples, and likely, had proper testing been done, there would have been more awareness sooner, but that's not always the case.  Generally, immunization is predicated on the theory that the benefits of the vaccines far outweigh the risks from delayed adverse events.   Historically, most adverse effects that we know of from vaccines occur early on in the life of the vaccine.   I understand all that, and I'm willing to take that risk as are millions of other people.   

But as a general proposition, I'm not ready to tell someone else they have to adopt my risk standard.   The reality is, even if the majority of policy makers agree that the benefits far outweigh the risks, I'm not going to knock someone for coming up with a different cost/benefit analysis.

Last I checked, building materials don't go thru the same kind of regulated R&D, clinical trials, reporting, oversight, and approvals that drugs do.  Just sayin.

The part I bolded is a fair one.  On the flipside, I also don't want to have to adopt someone else's risk standard - which is what I will have to do if I'm in a populated area with any unvaccinated people.  For instance, I was watching some sports highlights last night.  I'd say the fans were about 50/50 masked.  No one knows if the unmasked people are vaccinated, or anti-maskers.  So, by default I'm potentially adopting the risk standard of the anti-masker sitting in front of me in the stands who may be spreading a highly contagious disease.  I don't think *that* is any more or less 'fair' than the bolded above.

The Isotopes Stadium Terms and Conditions I posted, state exactly that. So, once you buy that ticket, you assume all risks if you do happen to catch Covid and you assume that it was no one else's fault but yours, as you agreed you assume those risks when you bought the ticket.

So you don't want to be forced into adopting their Risk Standard, then you don't go get to see the Isotopes play Ball.

But no one is preventing you from not going, and no one is preventing people from going to the game.

Because those whom bought tickets have a risk standard where a baseball game, outdoors, is not a high risk threat to them.



Every business should have this in their terms and conditions. Some could even have it on their doors where, once you walk into the building, you are assuming all risks involved with congregating.

I respect your concerns. But not everyone has the same level of concern. And that is their Risk Standard.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8786 on: May 12, 2021, 09:38:57 AM »
No, what those Ts and Cs are doing is the stadium trying to cover their own asses from a legal perspective.  If I'm vaccinated and masked, and there's a COVID carrying unvax'd non-masker sitting beside me, then the REALITY of the situation is it is more THEIR fault than mine *if* I catch COVID.  I've taken two significant measures to protect myself, but the reality is I'm exposed because of / to THEIR risk standard.  We all know there is no provability in it being this other person that caused me to catch it. But that's not the point being discussed.

In the context of the comment that Stads made, I'm not looking to find fault or blame.  If Bill's stance is that no one should have to adopt someone else's risk standard, that also applies to me, no?
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8787 on: May 12, 2021, 09:46:32 AM »
Two problems I see with that.  First:
I've taken two significant measures to protect myself...

Yeah, but if you are truly looking for 100% protection, you failed to take the best, most prophylactic measure:  don't go to the event.  As Ben said, that's on you just as much, if not moreso, than others because that is completely within your control.

Second,
I'm vaccinated

I'm exposed because of / to THEIR risk standard. 

These two things are nearly mutually exclusive.  By being vaccinated, you have mostly eliminated any risk resulting from anyone else having a different risk standard.  Yes, it isn't 100%.  But it is as close as possible.  And, again, if your personal standard is that almost 100% isn't good enough, then that's fine, but see point #1.

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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8788 on: May 12, 2021, 09:48:32 AM »
the best, most prophylactic measure
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8789 on: May 12, 2021, 09:53:38 AM »
the best, most prophylactic measure
Steel Panther's next album

I'll take "Things that have never been uttered in the same sentence" for 100, Alex Aaron.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8790 on: May 12, 2021, 10:15:53 AM »
Second,
I'm vaccinated

I'm exposed because of / to THEIR risk standard. 

These two things are nearly mutually exclusive.  By being vaccinated, you have mostly eliminated any risk resulting from anyone else having a different risk standard.  Yes, it isn't 100%.  But it is as close as possible.  And, again, if your personal standard is that almost 100% isn't good enough, then that's fine, but see point #1.

I agree with this.  As being fully vaxxed, I don't really care if someone next to me is carrying the virus at this point. Yes, it's not 100% that I won't get sick, but it's effectively 100% that I won't get extremely sick.  This is how we are going to have to live for awhile and it's a risk I am now willing to take.  Can't wait to go to the big beer and music festical in a few weeks, going to be hard to mask when drinking beer around people and I'm not 1 bit worried or scared.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8791 on: May 12, 2021, 10:25:54 AM »
In the context of the comment that Stads made, I'm not looking to find fault or blame.  If Bill's stance is that no one should have to adopt someone else's risk standard, that also applies to me, no?

It does, but the devil is in the details.   If you FORCE the other guy to act - however they act - in order to improve YOUR risk, you are forcing them to adopt your standard.   If you CHOOSE to act - however you act - in order to improve YOUR risk, you are not adopting THEIR standard - they didn't force you to do anything - you are simply enforcing your own standard.  It's a subtle difference, but in the world, which is nothing more than a endless list of competing rights and obligations, that's the line we sort of have to follow (and which we follow every day in countless ways).

One good - though imperfect - example is being offended.   If someone says something and I am offended, I can either trample their rights to free speech, or I can tend my own garden and address my emotions.  I can opt to suppress those emotions, I can walk away so I don't hear what they are saying, or anything else I can think of to diffuse the situation.  In either event, I don't have a RIGHT to never be offended, so my rights are not compromised, and neither are theirs.

Offline Skeever

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8792 on: May 12, 2021, 07:21:19 PM »

Having nothing to blame for something that goes wrong or feels wrong is such a frustrating thing for anyone to go through. There's nothing satisfying about coming to the realization that there's "no reason" why I'm so unhappy, or why I'm so angry all the time, or why there's such great tragedy in the world. Having something to scapegoat is so much better. So when a child starts missing these milestones, who does a parent blame? Not themselves, obviously, so something else. Well, there is likely SOME reason why autism exists, but we just don't understand what it is. That's when maybe those vaccines become incredibly appealing scapegoats.

People tend to not want to blame themselves. They rather point the finger and blame the other. It all plays into the entire reaction to the cause, and it's effect is staggering.

You have both sides of the vaccine argument pointing fingers at one another. Not one will point the finger at themselves. One blames the other for spreading sickness, and one blames the other for losing freedoms. Where is the middle ground?

Doesn't matter who is right or wrong. "Someone has to lose, and someone has to win".

When it comes to children. Parents do not want and don't like it when others try and tell them how they should raise their child...

And you won't know and understand how it is raising a child until you have one. Because of the fact you are always with that child. Mothers have a connection with that child for the rest of their lives, and no one should take that away, it's why you get mother's stealing their children back from adoption.

Would you rather Child Protective Services take away their child because you feel the child is unsafe and in harm's way? Without knowing the full facts and understanding of how it is to raise a child, then you should have no say into HOW these parents raise their child. There is no right way to raise a child. There is a right way to raise a child in the mindset of a society, and mold them to fit into the mold of that society.

And who determines whether that Society is right or wrong?


This will and always has been the issue when governments and others try and tell people HOW to raise one's own child.

That's not how our government works. But it is how communistic societies work, as they determine how and what your child will become, and is raised only for that pre-determined purpose.


I understand how much people are suddenly caring about others. But also, don't be intrusive and invading of their personal freedoms. It's not up to you to determine these things for people. Its the premise for tending to your own garden. Yes, that person is doing this, but if it's not affecting you, why bother. If it's nothing you can control, then you control it the best way you can for yourself and your own garden. Cause in the end, you're garden will still be fine and dandy, because you took the precautions and did something about it. While the other doesn't have crops, and has no produce, because they didn't see the clouds forming and the wind blowing and weather indicating an unseasonal winter storm is approaching.

I think I get what you mean, and I think I agree. Even in a super-individualistic society like the United States, with a billion different cultural wedge issues, there's a strong nationalistic sense of "we're on the same team" and that certain things must occur for the public good. This is due to so many things - education, the media, policing, and so on, that are titled toward reinforcing this sense of US nationalism in practically every citizen through the myriad of rules, public discussions, behavioral punishments, and so on. It's hard for people to even imagine what live without Government coercion would look like. And when it comes to public health, politicians may pry at people's desire to make their own decisions and see if drumming up some anger about that might win them some votes or at least some donations, even when most probably believe the ramifications of letting the majority ignore public health recommendations would be pretty catastrophic.


Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8793 on: May 13, 2021, 03:34:07 AM »
It does, but the devil is in the details.   If you FORCE the other guy to act - however they act - in order to improve YOUR risk, you are forcing them to adopt your standard.   If you CHOOSE to act - however you act - in order to improve YOUR risk, you are not adopting THEIR standard - they didn't force you to do anything - you are simply enforcing your own standard.  It's a subtle difference, but in the world, which is nothing more than a endless list of competing rights and obligations, that's the line we sort of have to follow (and which we follow every day in countless ways).
There's enough people in every society who think their temporary discomfort is on the same level of seriousness as someone else literally dying that we can't rely on just mitigating risks for ourselves, but also for each other. And when it's an actual life or death situation, we have to codify that, if not into law, then the strictest social norms possible so that people whose only precious person is themselves at least stop and think about the consequences before they ruin a life with their negligence. We have to have traffic laws, and you can say stuff like "well, I won't speed, and I'll wear a seat belt, and that's the standard I am enforcing for myself. We can't eliminate risk of death on the road, someone could hit me any minute", and that's all nice and rational, but when you see someone changing lanes like an outlaw and almost hitting someone else, you're not gonna say "well, such is life, risky, but I can't make a person behave like I would behind the wheel after all, and I have taken all the measures I can take to protect myself so I feel at peace with this situation", you're gonna say "oh my fucking god, that son of a bitch."

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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8794 on: May 13, 2021, 08:32:52 AM »
It does, but the devil is in the details.   If you FORCE the other guy to act - however they act - in order to improve YOUR risk, you are forcing them to adopt your standard.   If you CHOOSE to act - however you act - in order to improve YOUR risk, you are not adopting THEIR standard - they didn't force you to do anything - you are simply enforcing your own standard.  It's a subtle difference, but in the world, which is nothing more than a endless list of competing rights and obligations, that's the line we sort of have to follow (and which we follow every day in countless ways).
There's enough people in every society who think their temporary discomfort is on the same level of seriousness as someone else literally dying that we can't rely on just mitigating risks for ourselves, but also for each other. And when it's an actual life or death situation, we have to codify that, if not into law, then the strictest social norms possible so that people whose only precious person is themselves at least stop and think about the consequences before they ruin a life with their negligence. We have to have traffic laws, and you can say stuff like "well, I won't speed, and I'll wear a seat belt, and that's the standard I am enforcing for myself. We can't eliminate risk of death on the road, someone could hit me any minute", and that's all nice and rational, but when you see someone changing lanes like an outlaw and almost hitting someone else, you're not gonna say "well, such is life, risky, but I can't make a person behave like I would behind the wheel after all, and I have taken all the measures I can take to protect myself so I feel at peace with this situation", you're gonna say "oh my fucking god, that son of a bitch."

Well, here where I am from, people do not know how to drive. They do not give a shit about these "traffic laws" or they don't know the laws. In turn, I have to basically be a defensive driver around town. Because people will, turn when I'm turning, speed up when I'm turning, won't use their turn signal, will stop and make a U-turn when you shouldn't make one.

Now imagine how the Cyclists must feel when riding around here. They obviously know the risk is really high, yet they don't care and they don't follow their own rules and laws as well, which is not to be riding in a clustered group, you have to ride in a single file line, most Cyclists don't do this, and end up hogging the roads, or making the cars go more into the other lane just to pass them. We do have designated roads that are both shared with Bicycles and Cars.

This isn't even including the people on one street we call Central, where people whom are homeless, bums, or the drug addicts, all mingle and there is one intersection they love hanging out on and jaywalk on. They obviously don't give a shit. A lot of people Jaywalk here.

We could care all we want about the other and their risks, but why, when they themselves do not care about those risks? Sometimes, all we can do is tend our own garden, while we watch the other destroy their own. All you can do as a person, is do things that will protect yourself.

Because the reality is, people do not give a rats ass about risks, and do not care the same as you do, they don't care about your risk to them. This is reality, and there is nothing you can do to change it. These are things that are out of peoples control. Which is why you should focus on yourself and your community, and not worry about what some other person across the country is risking their own life for. It's basically to Me, unnecessary worry. And that worry should be focused on only you, your family, and community.

This is how Societies have survived through history.

It's only been until the birth of the internet where the world has been able to worry and care about people from the other side of the pond. In turn, this made us humans see, that we are all the same, we are no different, than one another. Our uniqueness is our environment we were raised in. This is how our world is evolving, because people did not care about those on the other side, they only cared and worried about their own garden.

This mindset was not the same as it is today. The modern mindset is a brand new mindset, that includes and is brought on by the connectivity we currently have available that we humans never had the capability to do before this Moment in our history. We didn't realize it, but the internet was a really big leap for mankind, that we ourselves do not know how to conduct ourselves with it and have to learn to adapt.


Risks will always be here, whether one likes it or not. It's balancing the security and the freedoms associated with Risks.

And let me tell you, not many peoples thresholds are high now they got vaccinated. Most do not know or don't care about the science, they trust it enough to take whatever's just so they can be able to go out and play with people. There's people that don't care at all or worry about these things. It's why I feel, Media plays a big role in how people perceive, because they trust what the media is telling them is the truth.

Trust goes a long way in how one perceives. It's amazing how ones world view and belief relies on that trust.
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Offline Harmony

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8795 on: May 13, 2021, 09:02:04 AM »
Now I've heard about Covid toes after an infection and Covid arm after a vaccine but now we have Covid lips??



I don't think anyone here needs to worry but apparently it is rarely associated with dermal fillers used by some on their lips and facial lines around their mouths cosmetically.  What's really weird is that it has happened to women who hadn't used fillers in years - in one case not since 2018! 

This truly is the most bizarre disease...
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8796 on: May 13, 2021, 09:05:13 AM »
I keep reading about covid nails too

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8797 on: May 13, 2021, 09:06:49 AM »
So it seems there are some anti-maskers/anti-vaxxers who are so afraid of the virus shedding that they're resorting to a ironic way to protect themselves... Masks...

https://www.vice.com/en/article/88nnwg/anti-maskers-ready-to-start-maskingto-protect-themselves-from-the-vaccinated

Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8798 on: May 13, 2021, 09:20:26 AM »
Only in America...

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8799 on: May 13, 2021, 09:25:39 AM »
Only in America...

I had to triple check it to make sure it wasn't the onion

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8800 on: May 13, 2021, 09:31:15 AM »
Crotchless panties for dummies. 
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8801 on: May 13, 2021, 09:39:22 AM »
So it seems there are some anti-maskers/anti-vaxxers who are so afraid of the virus shedding that they're resorting to a ironic way to protect themselves... Masks...

https://www.vice.com/en/article/88nnwg/anti-maskers-ready-to-start-maskingto-protect-themselves-from-the-vaccinated

Where have I heard this before??  Oh yeah, LAST PAGE!!  :lol :lol

Also came in here to post this.  From the sublime, to the ridiculous.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/88nnwg/anti-maskers-ready-to-start-maskingto-protect-themselves-from-the-vaccinated

No folks, this is not an Onion or HardTimes article.  Reminds me of this meme:


That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8802 on: May 13, 2021, 10:07:53 AM »
So it seems there are some anti-maskers/anti-vaxxers who are so afraid of the virus shedding that they're resorting to a ironic way to protect themselves... Masks...

https://www.vice.com/en/article/88nnwg/anti-maskers-ready-to-start-maskingto-protect-themselves-from-the-vaccinated

Where have I heard this before??  Oh yeah, LAST PAGE!!  :lol :lol

Also came in here to post this.  From the sublime, to the ridiculous.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/88nnwg/anti-maskers-ready-to-start-maskingto-protect-themselves-from-the-vaccinated

No folks, this is not an Onion or HardTimes article.  Reminds me of this meme:



My bad for not reading every post.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8803 on: May 13, 2021, 10:14:28 AM »
Well, at least MYYYYY posts!!!   :lol



Just razzin ya bro.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8804 on: May 13, 2021, 10:48:49 AM »
It does, but the devil is in the details.   If you FORCE the other guy to act - however they act - in order to improve YOUR risk, you are forcing them to adopt your standard.   If you CHOOSE to act - however you act - in order to improve YOUR risk, you are not adopting THEIR standard - they didn't force you to do anything - you are simply enforcing your own standard.  It's a subtle difference, but in the world, which is nothing more than a endless list of competing rights and obligations, that's the line we sort of have to follow (and which we follow every day in countless ways).
There's enough people in every society who think their temporary discomfort is on the same level of seriousness as someone else literally dying that we can't rely on just mitigating risks for ourselves, but also for each other. And when it's an actual life or death situation, we have to codify that, if not into law, then the strictest social norms possible so that people whose only precious person is themselves at least stop and think about the consequences before they ruin a life with their negligence. We have to have traffic laws, and you can say stuff like "well, I won't speed, and I'll wear a seat belt, and that's the standard I am enforcing for myself. We can't eliminate risk of death on the road, someone could hit me any minute", and that's all nice and rational, but when you see someone changing lanes like an outlaw and almost hitting someone else, you're not gonna say "well, such is life, risky, but I can't make a person behave like I would behind the wheel after all, and I have taken all the measures I can take to protect myself so I feel at peace with this situation", you're gonna say "oh my fucking god, that son of a bitch."

I can't say I disagree with you, but I'd feel a lot better about it if humans were fundamentally better at judging risk.  Too often, your perfectly reasonable scenario veers off into the unreasonable (or should I say, unsupported by basic facts and/or risk probabilities).  If your scenario played out in real life as reasonably as you put it here (and I'm being sincere; you put it very well) we'd be doing a lot more to medically combat obesity, for example, (which impacts 40% of Americans, and that's without considering the systemic cost) instead of trying to change the narrative regarding risks that impact a fraction of that.    To paraphrase your example, we have a metaphorical tendency to focus on the guy swerving lanes, and point to government to "stop that", all the while we're cruising down the highway in the left hand lane doing 58 while texting with our besties with a line of frustrated drivers behind us.   

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8805 on: May 13, 2021, 10:58:14 AM »
Well, at least MYYYYY posts!!!   :lol



Just razzin ya bro.

I mean, we're best buds and all... But even reading all your posts isn't worth my valuable time. It's not like your Dave M.....

Offline Harmony

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8806 on: May 13, 2021, 11:52:09 AM »
CDC is reportedly "easing" indoor mask mandates as of today.  I can hear people screaming (both for and against) already. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/05/13/covid-vaccine-cdc-variant-fda-clots-world-health-organization/5066504001/
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8807 on: May 13, 2021, 11:56:50 AM »
CDC is reportedly "easing" indoor mask mandates as of today.  I can hear people screaming (both for and against) already. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/05/13/covid-vaccine-cdc-variant-fda-clots-world-health-organization/5066504001/

It's official. Mandate still in effect in California, this should be a really interesting night at the supermarket for me. Good thing I don't give a whole bunch of fucks about that job.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8808 on: May 13, 2021, 12:00:02 PM »
CDC is reportedly "easing" indoor mask mandates as of today.  I can hear people screaming (both for and against) already. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/05/13/covid-vaccine-cdc-variant-fda-clots-world-health-organization/5066504001/

If people are against it, no one is stopping them from continuing to wear a mask.  Honestly, this just makes sense to slowly start easing up on restrictions and guidelines.  The numbers are just flat out plummeting nationally.  Here locally in NJ, the numbers are basically negligent.  The slow easing back into normalcy seems to be working here and 1 week from now all things besides large indoor events will no longer have restrictions.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8809 on: May 13, 2021, 02:01:20 PM »
Based on the knowledge of how much is put into live shows. I had a feeling they were going to ease on restrictions soon. No  band will risk losing money by cancelling or postponing a show again.

Didn't think it'd be this soon. But good to know.

I laughed at this paragraph on the NPR article on this, it's where I first saw the story.

Quote
Unvaccinated people "remain at risk" of illness and death, Walensky said, and should remain masked and observe physical distancing.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8810 on: May 13, 2021, 02:10:45 PM »
Well unvaccinated people are still at risk.  I saw a headline saying 99% of all covid hospitalizations in one area of the US (forget where) were from unvaccinated people. 

Offline Chino

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8811 on: May 13, 2021, 02:11:35 PM »
Being in CT, I'm fine with the CDC's new recommendations. There are probably still areas in the country that are a little hot and this might be a bit premature, but that's up to the states to determine at this point.


Offline emtee

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8812 on: May 13, 2021, 02:49:56 PM »
Sooner or later we had to take this step. I'm excited for it but a little concerned it will lead to another surge.

Hoping for the best.

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8813 on: May 13, 2021, 02:52:05 PM »
Sooner or later we had to take this step. I'm excited for it but a little concerned it will lead to another surge.

Hoping for the best.

Exactly.  I'm hoping it works out well for the US... cuz it means good things on the horizon for us up here (I still maintain we're 2-3 months behind where your at with vaccine outcomes).

Also, jingle.kids got their first shots yesterday.  :fistpump:  By August sometime (at the latest) the jingle.family should be fully vax'd.
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Offline emtee

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8814 on: May 13, 2021, 02:53:22 PM »
Sooner or later we had to take this step. I'm excited for it but a little concerned it will lead to another surge.

Hoping for the best.

Exactly.  I'm hoping it works out well for the US... cuz it means good things on the horizon for us up here (I still maintain we're 2-3 months behind where your at with vaccine outcomes).

Also, jingle.kids got their first shots yesterday.  :fistpump:  By August sometime (at the latest) the jingle.family should be fully vax'd.

How old are your kids?

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8815 on: May 13, 2021, 02:58:41 PM »
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/vaccinated-americans-now-may-go-without-masks-in-most-places-the-c-d-c-said/ar-BB1gHKGM?ocid=msedgntp

"Vaccinated Americans Now May Go Without Masks in Most Places, the C.D.C. said"

Some new CDC info

Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8816 on: May 13, 2021, 03:05:11 PM »
Sooner or later we had to take this step. I'm excited for it but a little concerned it will lead to another surge.

Hoping for the best.

Maybe, but if that's the case it'll be dominantly unvaccinated people who have chosen their path.  At some point, it's really not my concern anymore. 

The 7 day average of daily cases for the last 5 weeks in NJ:

Quote
April 1 - 4600
April 19 -3670
April 30 - 2047
May 5 - 1628
May 12 - 653

That sharp decline certainly seems like herd immunity is kicking in and it's no surprise that NJ is one of the most vaccinated states in the US.  Once again, the proof is in the pudding that the vaccines work. 

Offline emtee

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8817 on: May 13, 2021, 03:21:16 PM »
I agree.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8818 on: May 13, 2021, 03:38:43 PM »
Well, herd immunity means something specific in this context.  Given the percentages vaccinated, I don't think the dropoff technically fits the definition.  That isn't to say we aren't moving in the right direction, or that we aren't getting close--we are. 
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8819 on: May 13, 2021, 04:15:22 PM »
Well, herd immunity means something specific in this context.  Given the percentages vaccinated, I don't think the dropoff technically fits the definition.  That isn't to say we aren't moving in the right direction, or that we aren't getting close--we are.

The other side of the coin is NJ was one of the worst states with infections.  About 43% fully vaccinated, 55% with 1 shot.  Add in all the infections already and it's likely very close to the magic number, but herd immunity is not something that happens at a certain point, it gradually gets there and that's what we are seeing IMO.