Author Topic: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation  (Read 257327 times)

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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2555 on: February 27, 2016, 09:42:54 PM »
But he wrote the best three Star Trek movies.

Yes, he did write the three best Trek movies, and they were also very Trekky by the movie's standards. No problem there at all!

But it doesn't look like he's really worked on a series, so how will he adapt to a series, and what has he done in the past 25 years? As I said, it's not a bad thing, it just feels like it was motivated by exciting fans, rather than what will be a sure thing for the series. Hopefully he'll be a great addition to the show, but I'll have to reserve my judgement on him until I've seen it.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2556 on: February 28, 2016, 04:56:27 PM »
Interesting discussion on  What Are Little Girls Made Of from the Star Trek podcast that I listen to, they get into the nature of android cloning and whether it's still really you, as in transfer of conscience or just a machine with your background.
I need to post more often if I wanna share my thoughts cause I tend to forget but I rarely have enough time on my computer, anyway here's a couple of things I wanted to share:
- I forgot to ask this when I first watched Mudd's Women; in the elevator Mudd recognizes Spock as a half-Vulcan, yet it seems to me Spock looks exactly like all the Vulcans he meets in Amok Time, am I missing something?
- William Shatner's acting has significantly improved from Season 1 to Season 2.
- William Windom was pretty great in Doomsday Machine, it took me a few minutes before I recognized him from The Twilight Zone, really good actor and solid character.
On to the episodes, back on Barto's list:
The Doomsday Machine: Solid episode, enjoyed it through out and loved the Moby Dick vibe for Matt Decker, I'm looking to see if youtube has the original footage for the planet eater scenes, curious to see what 1960's technology had there. This episode could have been a movie easily, one thing I love about most of the Star Trek episodes I've seen so far is that they don't drag at all, like most TV shows these days do, on the contrary; it actually very often seems like they could have expanded on a bunch of things in the plot but didn't/couldn't because of time restraints or some other reason.
The scene where Decker takes over the Enterprise was a reminder for me that most -if not all- of these characters are military officers, I dunno why I thought they were a scientific team from a futuristic NASA-like organization.
It was interesting to see Captain Kirk getting down and dirty with some machine fixing on the Constellation, I believe this is the first time I've seen him do anything other than ask a lot of questions and give orders based on the answers he gets from his crew, feels like his only talent has been decision making so far.
Curious to see if there are more of the planet eater out there to show up in later episodes or shows.
Funny bit: As soon as Kirk asked Scotty to beam back and leave him to detonate the Constellation; Scotty is like "okay bye" hehe, didn't try to show any solidarity or sympathy to Kirk who could have easily died in this stunt, I'm thinking they couldn't waste time on more dialogue there.
The Changeling: Great episode, I enjoy episodes that take place entirely on the Enterprise, throughout the episode I wondered why Kirk couldn't just order the Nomad to self destruct as soon as it proved deadly, he eventually did that in some way but after what I thought was unnecessary mind gaming with the thing. Shatner gave his relatively best bit of acting on the series when he thought Scotty was killed.
Funny bit: I like that Uhura's memory has been wiped clean yet it would only take a week to re-educate her on everything she need to do her job again, kinda means that she's very easily replaceable :lol
The fact that they're all military officers explains to me how McCoy is always around even for matters that doesn't require a medical opinion, like they're get together in the conference room to discuss some danger or plan and he'd be there which used to seem odd to me.
Two great episodes. Windom really beat the shit out of that redshirt.  :lol   And it seems there's a lot of cross-training in the federation. On a couple of occasions Uhura takes over for Chekhov or Sulu when one of them flips out or something. Similarly, Chekhov is the junior science officer, taking over when Spock's not around. There's also a relatively unknown redshirt that gets put in charge of the ship a few times when Kirk, Spock and Scotty are all off doing something.

The Changeling is actually the 2nd of 3 or 4 instances where Kirk convinces a computer to destroy itself. He previously talked Landru into letting them blow it to bits.

As for the unremastered Doomsday, it's strictly static shots of the planet-killer being hit with phasers.



In TOS they were unable to shoot space sequences with more than one moving objects. If there were two ships they were static with the stars moving behind them. I thought they went a little overboard with the battle sequences in the new version of this, but the footage of the smashed up Constellation getting pummeled by asteroids definitely made up for it. And BTW, Memory-Alpha lists every change between the original and remastered versions, with pictures usually. If you haven't been already, you would do well to read the article for each episode after watching them.

Starfleet Command pretty much acts as the military wing of the federation, but because of Roddenberry's Utopian vision, they all considered themselves explorers first and foremost. I suspect most of the specialists had rudimentary military training, but pretty much along the lines of what Hawkeye and Trapper-John would have received as doctors serving in Korea. Once you get to TNG the lines become far more distinct. On the Galactic Princess there's a mix of starfleet personnel and civvies who are essentially modern astronauts.

Quote
- I forgot to ask this when I first watched Mudd's Women; in the elevator Mudd recognizes Spock as a half-Vulcan, yet it seems to me Spock looks exactly like all the Vulcans he meets in Amok Time, am I missing something?
Eh. Beats the shit out of me. As a salesman and scoundrel, it would certainly make sense for Mudd to be a fantastic judge of character. At the time, "you're part human, aren't you" would have made a helluva lot more sense.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2557 on: February 28, 2016, 06:42:24 PM »
Spock of course was the first Vulcan we met, and they made a point of him being only half Vulcan.  In Amok time, I think they did a decent job of making the others look "more Vulcan".  Stonn and T'Pring especially I thought look quite alien.  I mean, as far as aliens went those days, which was makeup and prosthetic ears.

Offline Dream Team

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2558 on: March 01, 2016, 06:47:02 AM »
Love Doomsday Machine! "Gentlemen I suggest you beam me aboard."  :lol

Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2559 on: March 01, 2016, 08:13:03 AM »
Read the other night on M-A that Windom never picked up on the Mobey Dick aspect of the episode. For years he always blew the thing off as some cheesy show about a space monster. It wasn't until much later that somebody finally pointed out to him that Decker was Ahab that he decided the whole thing was worth a damn.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2560 on: March 01, 2016, 08:24:42 AM »
It's great that he'd be able to turn in such a great performance for some cheesy show about a space monster.  A little over the top, but appropriately so, just the right amount actually.  Enough to reinforce the Ahab aspect.  Which he completely missed as the motivation for the character, so that's weird.  Part of me respects him more, and part of me respects him less, after reading that.  Mostly more, I guess.

But aren't actors always asking "What's my motivation?"  At the root of any performance, what is driving the character?  What is it that the actor must internalize to really bring the character to life?  Maybe that's just the cliché.  But Ahab vs Moby Dick is iconic.  Some aging guy chasing a space monster is silly, but hey, a gig's a gig, a paycheck's a paycheck.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2561 on: March 01, 2016, 11:38:40 AM »
My hunch is that he just wasn't a particularly bright bulb. I thought his performance was excellent and not over the top (which is unusual for ST). I suspect they just told him to be brooding and obsessive and he ran with it. The Ahab thing just never registered to him.

It's also possible that he deemed his motivation to be solely the loss of his crew, and based his revenge on guilt. I don't think Ahab had the guilt component. He was just pissed off at the whale for maiming him. That could be a reason why Ahab never registered with Windom. While the behavior of Decker and Ahab were very much the same (Decker's treatment of the Enterprise crew is much the same for Ahab's Pequod crew), they were differently motivated.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2562 on: March 01, 2016, 12:53:04 PM »

Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2563 on: March 01, 2016, 12:53:54 PM »
My hunch is that he just wasn't a particularly bright bulb. I thought his performance was excellent and not over the top (which is unusual for ST). I suspect they just told him to be brooding and obsessive and he ran with it. The Ahab thing just never registered to him.

It's also possible that he deemed his motivation to be solely the loss of his crew, and based his revenge on guilt. I don't think Ahab had the guilt component. He was just pissed off at the whale for maiming him. That could be a reason why Ahab never registered with Windom. While the behavior of Decker and Ahab were very much the same (Decker's treatment of the Enterprise crew is much the same for Ahab's Pequod crew), they were differently motivated.

Yeah, that's true.  I guess the parallel to Ahab is more the being obsessed than what was driving the obsession in the first place.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2564 on: March 01, 2016, 09:55:22 PM »
Nicholas Meyer doesn't want to repeat Star Trek.

https://trekmovie.com/2016/02/29/nicholas-meyer-i-think-its-going-to-be-a-different-star-trek/

Not much information to give at this point. I don't want retread either (like most of ENT), but it's also a concern that it ends up different in a way that shows too much influence and similarity to other modern shows, and ends up not very Trekky and just dumbed down.

I'm not worried about Meyer in that regard because he seems to get it, at least as far as could be shown in the films, but I just don't know what direction they're going with the new series yet in general. I'll remain hopeful until I have something to judge. At the moment it still has potential to end up great, or terrible.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2565 on: March 02, 2016, 04:11:44 AM »
At the moment it still has potential to end up great, or terrible.

Same with anything really :p

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2566 on: March 02, 2016, 04:29:48 AM »
At the moment it still has potential to end up great, or terrible.

Same with anything really :p

Not really. Here it just comes down to much (or little) information is available, and at this point we have nothing but some names to go on, which are a bit of a mixed bag, but nothing that's a deal breaker. Things will become much clearer once we have a confirmed cast, and a trailer, etc.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 04:46:14 AM by BlobVanDam »
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2567 on: March 02, 2016, 04:53:43 AM »
I even heard a rumour that Alex Kurtzman might not be the exec producer anymore.

If that's true it's like the Star Trek Gods are giving you what you want :P

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2568 on: March 02, 2016, 05:07:37 AM »
I'm actually not too concerned about Alex Kurtzman having an executive producer credit. That's a bit of a token credit most of the time. Both Kurtzman and Orci were executive producers on Transformers Prime, which surprisingly was a damn good series, especially for a kid's cartoon. Unlike the movies, it actually had continuity and internal consistency!
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2569 on: March 02, 2016, 05:10:54 AM »
Yes and Into Darkness had a lot more problems than 2009 and it also had Damon Lindelof as writer and producer.

Also - a few people have said that whilst the script writing is not that great - the actual dialogue in the last two movies were pretty good.


Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2570 on: March 02, 2016, 05:12:49 AM »
What would be your ideal new Star Trek series ?

I'd love a new series set around Star Trek 6 time - with those spaceship interiors. i think they looked the best.

Or a new TNG - era show set in the JJ -verse - which won't happen because Paramount owns that "universe" and CBS owns the tv "universe"...

I think a TOS - era show with modern production could be good. Like I said before - you only ever focused on The Enterprise in TOS so having another ship from that timeline could be cool.

You just have the " Make it look old but futuristic at the same time " problem.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2571 on: March 02, 2016, 05:30:31 AM »
I'd like to see prime universe, set 15 years after the end of Voyager, ie. the realtime amount since the series finished. You wouldn't even need to acknowledge it or have crossovers, at least for a while, but you'd get the cumulative benefit of the entire prime universe, without being boxed in by canon like with Enterprise, and fans would accept it.
I've seen some awesome fan ship designs from that era that would be perfect too.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2572 on: March 02, 2016, 06:59:28 AM »
Series about the building of the Uss Vengeance :neverusethis:


Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2573 on: March 02, 2016, 07:29:17 AM »
I'd like to see prime universe, set 15 years after the end of Voyager, ie. the realtime amount since the series finished. You wouldn't even need to acknowledge it or have crossovers, at least for a while, but you'd get the cumulative benefit of the entire prime universe, without being boxed in by canon like with Enterprise, and fans would accept it.
That's what I would want.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2574 on: March 02, 2016, 07:46:35 AM »
I'd like to see prime universe, set 15 years after the end of Voyager, ie. the realtime amount since the series finished. You wouldn't even need to acknowledge it or have crossovers, at least for a while, but you'd get the cumulative benefit of the entire prime universe, without being boxed in by canon like with Enterprise, and fans would accept it.
That's what I would want.

Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2575 on: March 02, 2016, 11:09:34 AM »
" Everybody Hates Tuvok "


Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2576 on: March 02, 2016, 11:14:06 AM »
Strange meme.  I thought Tuvok was awesome, and I thought he was generally considered one of the better characters in the Star Trek universe.

Is it because he's black?  And if people don't like that, can we at least agree on the total absurdity of the term "African-American Vulcan" which makes no fucking sense, yet was how he was often described when Voyager first came out?

Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2577 on: March 02, 2016, 11:17:22 AM »
Yeah, Tuvok was definitely one of the best Vulcans. He was the one that never got watered down.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2578 on: March 02, 2016, 11:22:55 AM »
He was ok. Tim Russ seemed to be channeling Nimoy.

Zachary Quinto seemed to be channeling Tim Russ. He just had the angst but not much of Nimoy's calm.

Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2579 on: March 02, 2016, 11:30:52 AM »
But it made perfect sense for Tim Russ to channel Leonard Nimoy.  Tuvok would unquestionably be compared to Spock, and if anything was different, there would be those who complained, loudly.  Any difference could be good or bad, but the detractors would be loud.  Between that and the fact that he's black, Russ was practically in a no-win situation.  He had to make Tuvok essentially a black Spock.  The mannerisms, the voice, everything.  And I thought he did a great job.  Over time, some variation crept in, which was good.

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2580 on: March 02, 2016, 11:31:28 AM »
Isn't it obvious they wanted to put their own spin and not play it like Spock?  To us, not one person is alike so I'll assume the same for any alien race.  Some are better are repressing their feelings than others.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2581 on: March 02, 2016, 11:34:43 AM »
I've noticed that other than Spock - a lot of the Vulcan characters on Star Trek were just angry or arrogant.

T'Pol was one of the worst. She played it the most arrogant.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2582 on: March 02, 2016, 09:38:16 PM »
I've noticed that other than Spock - a lot of the Vulcan characters on Star Trek were just angry or arrogant.

T'Pol was one of the worst. She played it the most arrogant.

Given the relationship between humans and Vulcans in ENT, that seemed to be their intention. They screwed up so badly with the Vulcans in ENT that they then tried to make up some BS in S4 that Vulcans were doing it wrong and had to find their original teachings. Such crap.

And where did this everybody hates Tuvok thing come from? Who hates Tuvok?
Back when I'd only seen the TOS movies, I actually preferred Tuvok to Spock. After seeing TOS, I then preferred Spock, but those two and Mark Lenard are the only great Vulcans.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Adami

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2583 on: March 02, 2016, 09:53:37 PM »
I love Tuvok. I'm sad his character wasn't given the development arc that he deserved.

Spock and Sarek set the standard of course. I also didn't mind T'pol, but yea ENT made the Vulcans super non-Vulcan.

However, I'd have to say my least favorite Vulcan is Quinto Spock. I love the actor, just really didn't like his Spock what so ever.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2584 on: March 02, 2016, 10:07:32 PM »
Spock's a great Vulcan, but with a caveat. It was his conflict and eventual embrace of his humanity that made him great. When he was young and trying to be the Vulcan hardass he was great. When he died and came back confused he was good. When he got old and wisdom allowed him to strike a nice balance he was great again. Reunification era Spock was excellent, and the "I have no regrets" scene with Data was a high point of his character, I think.

Tuvok was just a run of the mill Vulcan hardass, but that also made him great. He was pure Vulcan, and still quite interesting. The only other regularly occurring Vulcans all had various peculiarities or eccentricities.

And looking over my first paragraph, it occurs to me that Spock is pretty unique in that it's very rare to see any character evolve as much as he did over a span of nearly 50 years. He aged 124 years between Lt. Spock in The Cage/Menagerie and Ambassador Spock in Unification. Over that span his character evolved very similarly to the actor that played him.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2585 on: March 03, 2016, 02:38:55 PM »
Rod Rodenberry is now executive producer.

No word on whether he's replaced Alex Kurtzman.


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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2586 on: March 03, 2016, 07:26:04 PM »
This is an even stranger token choice than the last. I like Rod Roddenberry, but he has no experience with a real show.
Just give me one clear reassuring name that I can trust to not royally screw this up.
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Adami

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2587 on: March 03, 2016, 07:37:45 PM »
At this point I kind of expect Walter Koenig or even Bill Shatner to be named Executive Producer.

I have a feeling the meetings go "What name will make old fans get excited?" and they just pay that person to be an executive producer.

Show me a cast, directors, writers. A premise would be good too. Executive producers don't mean much. Stephen Spielberg was executive producer on Transformers.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2588 on: March 03, 2016, 09:05:33 PM »
This is an even stranger token choice than the last. I like Rod Roddenberry, but he has no experience with a real show.
Just give me one clear reassuring name that I can trust to not royally screw this up.
I don't know a thing about Rod Roddenberry, but this actually seems slightly encouraging. Of course I think GR was a menace and his vision made TNG blow. However, at least his vision was actual Star Trek. If Jr. wants to carry on in the spirit his old man always intended, that suggests something very different than what they've been doing, or what I've suspected they'd do with this series.
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Offline ZirconBlue

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Re: Star Trek: The Next Threaderation
« Reply #2589 on: March 04, 2016, 10:00:12 AM »
Executive producers don't mean much.

Unless they're the Show Runner.