Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[Kotowboy]

It doesn't matter what I say anyway.

Everything I say I like or particularly enjoyed about the last two films - you just go " THIS IS WHY YOU ARE WRONG. "

[BlobVanDam]

It doesn't matter what I say anyway.

Everything I say I like or particularly enjoyed about the last two films - you just go " THIS IS WHY YOU ARE WRONG. "

If they knew how to write good scifi, we wouldn't have this problem!

[Kotowboy]

I don't see how it's any worse than a Planet that brings people back to life created by a torpedo  designed to create an entire habitable planet

from a dead rock ( Search For Spock ).

or a Planet that cures all your ills and keeps you young ( Insurrection ).

or a Vulcan that can show you 3D real life projections of your secret pain and everyone else in the room can also see them.

* waits to find out how i'm wrong and those examples are completely different and acceptable *

[BlobVanDam]

I won't even bother arguing with you, but I will point out that it's probably no coincidence that those three Trek movies are not highly regarded by most fans at all.

[El Barto]

It doesn't matter what I say anyway.

Everything I say I like or particularly enjoyed about the last two films - you just go " THIS IS WHY YOU ARE WRONG. "

Truth be told, I only posted the link because I wanted to make you defend it. 

Honestly though, you are a bit defensive about it. And did you ever say that you particularly enjoyed the Khan's magic blood part? You have to recognize that there are some plot holes in the thing. Blob and I have both said there are plenty of things we like about the movie; it just wasn't what we wanted to see out of ST. You don't need to feel so ganged up on.

edit: and the Genesis planet didn't bother me. Spock wasn't brought back to life; he was reborn from his DNA. The rapid aging was a tad silly, though. The Insurrection Planet was typical sci-fi from any series. The Spock's brother thing was just plain stupid.

[BlobVanDam]

It doesn't matter what I say anyway.

Everything I say I like or particularly enjoyed about the last two films - you just go " THIS IS WHY YOU ARE WRONG. "

Truth be told, I only posted the link because I wanted to make you defend it. 

Honestly though, you are a bit defensive about it. And did you ever say that you particularly enjoyed the Khan's magic blood part? You have to recognize that there are some plot holes in the thing. Blob and I have both said there are plenty of things we like about the movie; it just wasn't what we wanted to see out of ST. You don't need to feel so ganged up on.

edit: and the Genesis planet didn't bother me. Spock wasn't brought back to life; he was reborn from his DNA. The rapid aging was a tad silly, though. The Insurrection Planet was typical sci-fi from any series. The Spock's brother thing was just plain stupid.

Yep, it's not like anybody here is claiming TFF is a good movie, so I don't see the problem.

As I said in an earlier post, it's not like we pretend the old movies were fault free either. Far from it. Some movies just have worse faults than others. And Into Darkness is the latest movie, so that gets the most discussion right now.

Ah Kotowboy. You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend.

[Kotowboy]

It doesn't matter what I say anyway.

Everything I say I like or particularly enjoyed about the last two films - you just go " THIS IS WHY YOU ARE WRONG. "

Truth be told, I only posted the link because I wanted to make you defend it. 

Well I was just responding by mentioning the writers' official reason to that exact question.

[Kotowboy]

Ah Kotowboy. You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend.

Futurama. " Where No Fan Has Gone Before. "

[El Barto]

Yep, it's not like anybody here is claiming TFF is a good movie, so I don't see the problem.

As I said in an earlier post, it's not like we pretend the old movies were fault free either. Far from it. Some movies just have worse faults than others. And Into Darkness is the latest movie, so that gets the most discussion right now.

In fact, I'd definitely rank TFF far below ID. Not sure about 2009. Probably rank Insurrection above 09, but equal to ID. They're both entertaining at times, and silly at times. Something I'd put on to be amused but not take particularly seriously. TSfS definitely beats the two new ones, though.

[BlobVanDam]

Ah Kotowboy. You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend.

Futurama. " Where No Fan Has Gone Before. "

MORE LIKE EPISODE 9, BALANCE OF TERROR, LOSER! IN YOUR FACE! VICTORY IS MINE! HE HE!


Best tribute episode ever.

[Kotowboy]

My Rankings :
TOS Movies : Khan, Country, Home, Motion, Search, Frontier

TNG Movies : Generations, Contact, Nemesis, Insurrection

JJ movies : Darkness, 2009.

[Kotowboy]

Best tribute episode ever.

It is absolute genius. " All Power to the Engines " =  absolutely lost it.

[BlobVanDam]

Best tribute episode ever.

It is absolute genius. " All Power to the Engines " =  absolutely lost it.

Because of that episode, I've always referred to Riker as "front row Riker". When I watched all of TNG with my friend, I kept saying "YES! FRONT ROW!" every time Riker was happy about something. Pretty sure it annoyed the crap out of him. So stupid.

[Kotowboy]

It doesn't even sound like Frakes when he says it for some reason.

[BlobVanDam]

It doesn't even sound like Frakes when he says it for some reason.

Probably because he got all old and different sounding.
He is credited though, so I find it amusing that they got him for a one line cameo.

[Kotowboy]

It doesn't even sound like Frakes when he says it for some reason.

Probably because he got all old and different sounding.
He is credited though, so I find it amusing that they got him for a one line cameo.

Maybe he just recorded it on a crappy old phone and emailed it in rather than in a proper studio.



In other news - I find it sad that Takei and Shatner have not publicly settled their differences so late in their lives.

If they've worked it out in private then awesome but i'd hate for either of them to leave us whilst still holding a grudge.

- Especially since the TNG cast all get along so famously in reality.

[King Postwhore]

Ah Kotowboy. You and I are of a kind. In a different reality, I could have called you friend.

Futurama. " Where No Fan Has Gone Before. "

MORE LIKE EPISODE 9, BALANCE OF TERROR, LOSER! IN YOUR FACE! VICTORY IS MINE! HE HE!


Best tribute episode ever.

I love that episode.

[El Barto]

In other news - I find it sad that Takei and Shatner have not publicly settled their differences so late in their lives.

If they've worked it out in private then awesome but i'd hate for either of them to leave us whilst still holding a grudge.

- Especially since the TNG cast all get along so famously in reality.

Which is odd since Takei doesn't seem like the bitter type. I know Shatner and Nimoy seem to have settled their differences.

[Kotowboy]

I LOVE seeing the TNG cast all getting along and hanging out. It's so nice to see.

They're not like some bitter band who broke up because they hated each other and did reunion tours for the money and never see each other except for on stage.

[El Barto]

While they do all seem to get along great, Spiner certainly seems to have some issues with the whole ST thing. It's pretty clear he though the show was shit (and he was mostly correct) and he seems to have pretty little regard for all of the conventions. Also, it's pretty clear that he's closer to Stewart than the rest of them.

As for the TOS cast, Shatner seems to have made a real effort to make amends, and I'm sure he'd be the first to tell you that he really was a douche back then. Took Doohan's rapidly approaching death for him to forgive Shatner, and Takei seems to be similarly inclined.

[ddtonfire]

Currently making my way through TNG again. I'm a few episodes into the second season.

I'll go through DS9 and Voyager next.

[El Barto]

Currently making my way through TNG again. I'm a few episodes into the second season.

My condolences to you.

When I knew I was going to be laid up for a while I DL'ed a bunch of TNG. Went through and picked only episodes I recall as being interesting or episodes that I didn't remember but thought might be. Turned out to be 66 episodes that I could stomach re-watching. Of those about 15 wound up being ones where I'd get 5 minutes in and go "oh Christ, not this one!" and turn it off. Final percentage turned out to be about 28% that I deemed watchable. Even the ones that made the cut (and I've watched a few of them over the last week) still just come across as week and silly to me.

[BlobVanDam]

Currently making my way through TNG again. I'm a few episodes into the second season.

My condolences to you.

When I knew I was going to be laid up for a while I DL'ed a bunch of TNG. Went through and picked only episodes I recall as being interesting or episodes that I didn't remember but thought might be. Turned out to be 66 episodes that I could stomach re-watching. Of those about 15 wound up being ones where I'd get 5 minutes in and go "oh Christ, not this one!" and turn it off. Final percentage turned out to be about 28% that I deemed watchable. Even the ones that made the cut (and I've watched a few of them over the last week) still just come across as week and silly to me.

And yet you can defend TOS, where 90% of the episodes are downright laughable the whole way through. Go figure.

[Kotowboy]

TNG is the best series.


Doesn't even need "imo" after it.

[BlobVanDam]

See Kotowboy? We don't just single out JJ Trek.

[El Barto]

Currently making my way through TNG again. I'm a few episodes into the second season.

My condolences to you.

When I knew I was going to be laid up for a while I DL'ed a bunch of TNG. Went through and picked only episodes I recall as being interesting or episodes that I didn't remember but thought might be. Turned out to be 66 episodes that I could stomach re-watching. Of those about 15 wound up being ones where I'd get 5 minutes in and go "oh Christ, not this one!" and turn it off. Final percentage turned out to be about 28% that I deemed watchable. Even the ones that made the cut (and I've watched a few of them over the last week) still just come across as week and silly to me.

And yet you can defend TOS, where 90% of the episodes are downright laughable the whole way through. Go figure.

Nope. Just went through the list (as percentage of watchable episodes is actually a pretty interesting way to look at it). I'd rate TOS as 50%. Some are good episodes. Some are just entertaining for a variety of reasons. DS9 is probably about 85-90%. Still plenty of dead weight in there. VOY is going to be around 66%. That's what I watched while recovering, and I skipped about 5 episodes per season (and hated some that I did watch). Surprisingly, ENT fared pretty well. I watched all of that during a busy stretch at the shop and only skipped over a handful. Interestingly, I blew off the last few episodes. The show just really fizzled towards the end.

[Kotowboy]

See Kotowboy? We don't just single out JJ Trek.

TNG was the first series I actively watched so it's bound to be my favourite


I reckon that they should have marketed Star trek 5 as a comedy. It would probably have been more popular then

The whole cast are definitely just playing it for laughs and trying to make the most of a poor script and small budget.

[Kotowboy]

I found out that " Jaws 3 " was originally going to be a parody called " Jaws 3 - People 0 ". but Universal didn't want to make a parody of their biggest hit.

Pretty ironic considering what they ended up with...

[BlobVanDam]

Currently making my way through TNG again. I'm a few episodes into the second season.

My condolences to you.

When I knew I was going to be laid up for a while I DL'ed a bunch of TNG. Went through and picked only episodes I recall as being interesting or episodes that I didn't remember but thought might be. Turned out to be 66 episodes that I could stomach re-watching. Of those about 15 wound up being ones where I'd get 5 minutes in and go "oh Christ, not this one!" and turn it off. Final percentage turned out to be about 28% that I deemed watchable. Even the ones that made the cut (and I've watched a few of them over the last week) still just come across as week and silly to me.

And yet you can defend TOS, where 90% of the episodes are downright laughable the whole way through. Go figure.

Nope. Just went through the list (as percentage of watchable episodes is actually a pretty interesting way to look at it). I'd rate TOS as 50%. Some are good episodes. Some are just entertaining for a variety of reasons. DS9 is probably about 85-90%. Still plenty of dead weight in there. VOY is going to be around 66%. That's what I watched while recovering, and I skipped about 5 episodes per season (and hated some that I did watch). Surprisingly, ENT fared pretty well. I watched all of that during a busy stretch at the shop and only skipped over a handful. Interestingly, I blew off the last few episodes. The show just really fizzled towards the end.

It really depends on how you define watchable. I do find most of TOS watchable and entertaining, just not in the way it intends to be. To me it's pure comedy, just as I enjoy MacGyver and CSI on the same level.
The percentage of episodes I'd consider actually good though, extremely low. A lot of them are redundantly formulaic anyway, and not necessary watching.

The problem with ENT is that it brought nothing new to the table at all until S3. Up until then, it was just stale and poorly recycled TNG/DS9/Voy plots, and without the strong cast to carry it. S3 was the only great season, but even that had some blatantly recycled plots. Most people seem to love S4, but I thought that was the worst. Unashamed fanwank, most of which was forcing the square peg into the round hole. That season demonstrated perfectly that Trek had painted themselves completely into a corner by that point.
Ironically, the best episodes of S4 were the Mirror universe where they were on the Defiant, because they almost showed some character. Incidentally, it also technically didn't include a single character or moment in the prime universe! Possibly the only example of that in all of Trek?

[BlobVanDam]

TNG was the first series I actively watched so it's bound to be my favourite

TNG was the first series I watched, after watching all of the TOS movies first, but I still much prefer DS9 and Voyager overall. TNG would be the middle of the pack for me, I suppose.

[El Barto]

It really depends on how you define watchable. I do find most of TOS watchable and entertaining, just not in the way it intends to be. To me it's pure comedy, just as I enjoy MacGyver and CSI on the same level.
The percentage of episodes I'd consider actually good though, extremely low. A lot of them are redundantly formulaic anyway, and not necessary watching.

I certainly feel similarly. Plenty of those episodes aren't great, but since I'm a fan of Kirk, Spock and even McCoy, I'm always down for watching them do their thing. Occasionally it's even just for one scene, but an episode that leads up to a big payoff is fine for me.

If TNG had even one character as good as them, I'd be cooler with it. The fact is that I just hate all of their boring, lifeless asses, so there's no interest in watching them in crappy stories. Most of what I did watch were Data-centric episodes, or ones with Borg, Q, Klingons or Romulans in them. Anybody but those smug, awful federation twits.

The problem with ENT is that it brought nothing new to the table at all until S3. Up until then, it was just stale and poorly recycled TNG/DS9/Voy plots, and without the strong cast to carry it. S3 was the only great season, but even that had some blatantly recycled plots. Most people seem to love S4, but I thought that was the worst. Unashamed fanwank, most of which was forcing the square peg into the round hole. That season demonstrated perfectly that Trek had painted themselves completely into a corner by that point.
Ironically, the best episodes of S4 were the Mirror universe where they were on the Defiant, because they almost showed some character. Incidentally, it also technically didn't include a single character or moment in the prime universe! Possibly the only example of that in all of Trek?

I remember thinking at the time they should have just said fuckit and made a 5th season set entirely in the mirror universe. Unfortunately, even the mirror versions of the characters were pretty bad. While it was better than most of that season (and the opening credits were probably the single best thing the series ever did), it was really only redeemable for staring the hot, slutty Hoshi.

And for that matter, the one with the augments wasn't bad, although they should have knocked off the entire Sung aspect of it. Either do a pre-Data episode, or a pre-Khan episode. They overdid it with the fanwank there.

[BlobVanDam]

I certainly feel similarly. Plenty of those episodes aren't great, but since I'm a fan of Kirk, Spock and even McCoy, I'm always down for watching them do their thing. Occasionally it's even just for one scene, but an episode that leads up to a big payoff is fine for me.

If TNG had even one character as good as them, I'd be cooler with it. The fact is that I just hate all of their boring, lifeless asses, so there's no interest in watching them in crappy stories. Most of what I did watch were Data-centric episodes, or ones with Borg, Q, Klingons or Romulans in them. Anybody but those smug, awful federation twits.

I liked most of the characters on TNG, and you're actually the only person I've seen complain about them. I'd take Data over the backwards hillbilly screaming at Kirk about pushing good ol' fashioned US of A values onto every single civilization, while Spock tried to actually talk some reason into him.
That said, Spock is my favourite Trek character of all though, so I get it. And I do like that cast as much as any other series. Kirk is always fun to watch for being the rapiest man in the galaxy, Bones is an amusing old coot, Scotty is the lovable raging alcoholic, and the rest all had their moments. Definitely a fun cast, although not always in the right way.

I remember thinking at the time they should have just said fuckit and made a 5th season set entirely in the mirror universe. Unfortunately, even the mirror versions of the characters were pretty bad. While it was better than most of that season (and the opening credits were probably the single best thing the series ever did), it was really only redeemable for staring the hot, slutty Hoshi.

It's a shame they always focused more on the androgynous looking Vulcan instead of the cute asian chick. Was never much into the beanpole pixie look.

And for that matter, the one with the augments wasn't bad, although they should have knocked off the entire Sung aspect of it. Either do a pre-Data episode, or a pre-Khan episode. They overdid it with the fanwank there.

Seriously! It was too much.
And I think the whole arc of explaining why the Klingons looked different was a load of crap too. It was something best left unsaid. I was perfectly content with just accepting that a 1960s TV show had limitations. That's one of those times where suspension of disbelief clearly applies. Just like I accept that the Enterprise is not supposed to look like a cheaply painted wooden set designed to push colour TV sets.

[El Barto]

It's a shame they always focused more on the androgynous looking Vulcan instead of the cute asian chick. Was never much into the beanpole pixie look.

Yeah, but Malcom was right, she had a great ass. Don't dig the hair, but phenomenally well built young lady. And when it comes to fanwank, always finding a way to have her in her skivvies once per episode is pretty damned sporting of them.

[BlobVanDam]

It's a shame they always focused more on the androgynous looking Vulcan instead of the cute asian chick. Was never much into the beanpole pixie look.

Yeah, but Malcom was right, she had a great ass. Don't dig the hair, but phenomenally well built young lady. And when it comes to fanwank, always finding a way to have her in her skivvies once per episode is pretty damned sporting of them.

She did look much better in S3/4 when she switched to the more stylish outfits, and they changed her wig to be more feminine. The steel wool potato sack she wore in S1/2 wasn't flattering at all though.

I'd still take Hoshi any day.

[yorost]

TNG was the first series I actively watched so it's bound to be my favourite

TNG was the first series I watched, after watching all of the TOS movies first, but I still much prefer DS9 and Voyager overall.

This, and it's not even close.