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Dream Theater => Dream Theater => Topic started by: lucidlydreaming on February 26, 2019, 01:04:22 PM
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He used to make brilliant compositions and solos...I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.
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.....have you not heard the outro to At Wit's End?
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There are a couple times I feel that way on this album but for the most part I feel like JP's solos are a pretty nice combination of well written/melodic and technical. There is a ton of melody from JP on this album.
The more I listen the more his solos have clicked for me as well. I think JP is pretty much on fire on D/T.
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I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.
Nah this album isn't Train of Thought.
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JPs playing/writing style has certainly evolved over the years, and he's done nothing but improve his playing, but he has shown time and time again that he's more than capable of showing restraint and writing incredibly soulful/beautiful guitar parts, even if they're difficult and technical.
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He used to make brilliant compositions and solos...I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.
Not sure why you would think that since, as others have posted above, that is demonstrably false. But if your intent is to come here to bash the members of the band, then I will point out that such conduct clearly violates forum rule #12, and if you continue, you will be shown the door.
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I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.
Nah this album isn't Train of Thought.
This Dying Soul..... :lol
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JPs playing/writing style has certainly evolved over the years, and he's done nothing but improve his playing, but he has shown time and time again that he's more than capable of showing restraint and writing incredibly soulful/beautiful guitar parts, even if they're difficult and technical.
His style has definitely evolved, but I'm not sure if it's for the better. Even his tone is completely different (I miss the Ibanez + Mesa Boogie combo).
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OP - I have no clue how you could listen to the new record and then make that comment. JP has great melodic lines all over that album.
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He used to make brilliant compositions and solos...I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.
Let me guess - you have not listened to The Astonishing?
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OP - I have no clue how you could listen to the new record and then make that comment. JP has great melodic lines all over that album.
And yet none of those melodies have stuck in my head. Who knows why that is? Perhaps my issue is more about the writing than the playing...Although bot kind of go hand in hand.
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In every album there’s at least one song/solo petrucci shows his melodic/emotional side. This album and TA have a few, DT12 had STR and the bigger picture, ADTOE had This is the Life, BAI.
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He used to make brilliant compositions and solos...I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.
I would have kind of agreed or at least seen where you are coming from this time last week. Then I heard the new album. JP has been pretty stale for a while, but with D/T, he's made me fall in love with him again as a fellow guitarist. He has recaptured so much in this album from his glory days or guitar soloing. Even solos like BAI didn't really knock me down when you compare it to something like TSCO. At Wit's End and Out of Reach in particular show he can still produce solos as good as anything on I&W up to Scenes.
As a guitarist myself, JP was losing touch with me and has done for a long while. That's changed in a matter of days. He's found something special again IMO.
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JPs playing/writing style has certainly evolved over the years, and he's done nothing but improve his playing, but he has shown time and time again that he's more than capable of showing restraint and writing incredibly soulful/beautiful guitar parts, even if they're difficult and technical.
His style has definitely evolved, but I'm not sure if it's for the better. Even his tone is completely different (I miss the Ibanez + Mesa Boogie combo).
I couldn't agree more with the above post
I love JP
he's been my favorite guitarist for years now
I own 3 of his signature guitars
but ever since a Dramatic turn of events
like the previous member posted...
his tone, style, even technique seems different
Even when he writes new melodies, something seems off to me
I don't get it
Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way
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The absurdity of the OP doesn’t even warrant a response actually.
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Have you heard the middle section of FITL? folks posted good examples here but that FITL part is up there with the best heart felt work he's ever done. I've been comparing it to the middle section of Master of Puppets, I've never compared anything to Master of Puppets! heh
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OP - I have no clue how you could listen to the new record and then make that comment. JP has great melodic lines all over that album.
Or The Astonishing. Seems like a weird time to make this OP..
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I agree with absolutely everybody here that JP has come back to more tasteful soloing. Yes he had a hard shred phase, but I feel he's come full circle.
The only thing I wish he brought back on top of that is the jazzy stuff he did early on. But that's nitpicking.
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I think the OP should have been broken down a bit more and explained. If he gave examples and perhaps explained himself a bit better, it might not seem so abrupt and offensive. I think the wording is not right, but as I mentioned, in a way I kind of see what he is getting at.
Although the line 'I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.' is false and I don't agree with at all. I think even though JP is one of the best in the world, as the years roll by he has gotten a little stale at times and a lot of his work and playing is not as memorable as some of the solos from Scenes and before. When you play for years and years, you get to a point where you just sit and find your style and technique and you essentially stop learning and developing on your own. I hear it often with guitarists that their earlier stuff is so inspired and memorable and as their career goes on they get into a bit of a niche where things aren't as creative. Maybe it's workload, less effective writing, boredom or all of the above.
JP has never been a slouch but I feel his later career his stuff while amazing, it's not as memorable, again songwriting could have something to do with it. He does love a shred, but I don't agree that he's never let that overtake a song that doesn't really need it. If anything he did that more back in the day where he would fall into a shred pattern that is questionable, mainly live though. This album however I feel he has revived a spark and magic with his playing, like he's learning and discovering new things altogether. It's probably too hard to describe but his playing on this album is the best he's played since TOT, possibly Scenes IMO. For me to say that, that's huge.
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I agree with absolutely everybody here that JP has come back to more tasteful soloing. Yes he had a hard shred phase, but I feel he's come full circle.
The only thing I wish he brought back on top of that is the jazzy stuff he did early on.
Pretty much what I think I'm getting at in a nutshell.
Speaking of jazz the solo in Room 137 is something I feel he hasn't really done in years. The bluesy overtones are wonderful.
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I think the OP should have been broken down a bit more and explained. If he gave examples and perhaps explained himself a bit better, it might not seem so abrupt and offensive.
Exactly.
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Random, but the bend at 7:19 of At Wit's End is one of the most amazing, subtle, incredible things JP has done it makes me heart cry. Could be a top 5 JP moment already for me.
This album really has made me fall in love with him again, big time.
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Random, but the bend at 7:19 is one of the most amazing, subtle, incredible things JP has done it makes me heart cry. Could be a top 5 JP moment already for me.
This album really has made me fall in love with him again, big time.
??? Are you talking about At Wit's End? (that and PBD are the only songs that are long enough to have a "7:19") I don't hear a bend there. I hear vibratto, but I'm not sure he bends to that. He does bend into the high note about 2 second later though. Is that what you mean?
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Not to pick on the OP as he/she is entitled to their own opinion just like the rest of us, but it seems a little contradictory to make this statement but yet over in the Greatest Hit 2 thread, he/she comments that they are not really familiar with the post-MP material. I get the point the OP is trying to make and too feel to a small degree that there is 'something' different with the newer music (JP is still by far my favorite guitar player and always will be, not slogging on the guy by any means) - but seems hard to make that claim and yet admitting to not knowing the recent material to base that claim off of.
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Random, but the bend at 7:19 is one of the most amazing, subtle, incredible things JP has done it makes me heart cry. Could be a top 5 JP moment already for me.
This album really has made me fall in love with him again, big time.
??? Are you talking about At Wit's End? (that and PBD are the only songs that are long enough to have a "7:19") I don't hear a bend there. I hear vibratto, but I'm not sure he bends to that. He does bend into the high note about 2 second later though. Is that what you mean?
Yeah sorry, At Wit's End. Maybe it's 7:20, it's an amazing bend which follows a 4 note run down and then some quick shred. JP plays the note first with some stacato then bends the note in such a why like he's making the guitar cry.
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Not to pick on the OP as he/she is entitled to their own opinion just like the rest of us, but it seems a little contradictory to make this statement but yet over in the Greatest Hit 2 thread, he/she comments that they are not really familiar with the post-MP material. I get the point the OP is trying to make and too feel to a small degree that there is 'something' different with the newer music (JP is still by far my favorite guitar player and always will be, not slogging on the guy by any means) - but seems hard to make that claim and yet admitting to not knowing the recent material to base that claim off of.
Fair point. Perhaps hence the one sentence OP. Perhaps it couldn't be elaborated on, which in turn doesn't seem valid.
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He used to make brilliant compositions and solos...I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.
Strange comments given your admission that you're not particularly familiar with DT's post-MP material. https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53476.msg2524721#msg2524721
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I agree with absolutely everybody here that JP has come back to more tasteful soloing. Yes he had a hard shred phase, but I feel he's come full circle.
The only thing I wish he brought back on top of that is the jazzy stuff he did early on.
Pretty much what I think I'm getting at in a nutshell.
Speaking of jazz the solo in Room 137 is something I feel he hasn't really done in years. The bluesy overtones are wonderful.
My thoughts exactly. That solo was awesome, took me by surprise.
Just a thought - could JP possibly not have enough time to spend on solos like he used to due to taking on more responsibility in working behind the scenes? That might also explain changes to his style and/or the types of solos he is putting out these days.
I love all of his solos regardless.
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His solos are awesome on this album and they were great on TA. I don't understand this thread.
Does he shred too much sometimes? Yes. But thats been a thing since TOT.
If he anything the melody writing is back in full force on the last 3 albums IMO.
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He used to make brilliant compositions and solos...I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.
Strange comments given your admission that you're not particularly familiar with DT's post-MP material. https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53476.msg2524721#msg2524721
I keep tabs on the band. I've stopped buying the albums long ago, but I usually listen to every release to see if anything grabs me. I liked a few songs here and there, but nothing really made me go back and want to hear more besides ONW and Illumination Theory (which is damn fantastic)...
I don't know most of the song titles, but I've listened to most of them a handful of times.
Dream Theater to me the past 12 years are sort of on the same boat as Metallica. I'll always check out their new material to see if I like it. Probably on Spotify or Youtube when I get wind of new music.
I feel like the last time I really loved JP on a track was The Best of Times. He didn't overplay. It was tasteful and restrained. Not only that, it was memorable.
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Just a thought - could JP possibly not have enough time to spend on solos like he used to due to taking on more responsibility in working behind the scenes?
Definitely. That's what I meant when I used the term 'workload.' More focus and responsibility on the final product you think in time would have to affect some subtleties in one's playing.
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Is this post a joke?
The interlude of Fall into the Light is not melodic?
All the solos of Barstool Warrior are not melodic?
The outro of at Wit's end is not melodic?
Out of reach?
And the outro solo of PBD, is that "just shredding"?
And, even though not melodic, ALL the solos in this album are very well crafted and thought (maybe just the middle solo of AWE is a bit over the line)
There are a couple of albums where it probably was "just shredding", but those albums are called Train of Thoughts and Systematic Chaos (only "melodic" solo there is the outro of TMOLS, but that is not even a real solo).
Even in Octavarium the only real "melodic" solo is the outro of the title track.
So, to sum up, the post is indeed a joke.
Btw- of course saying "Petrucci solos are horrible" is a legitimate opinion, but the initial statement of the post is wrong.
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Uhmm... What? There are so many beautiful melodies on D/T as well as on other recent albums. Yes, his style evolved a bit. I think he focuses more on melody now than in the past. He may have decreased a bit in terms of precision (ToT era was his peak IMO), but still is one of the best out there.
I agree with absolutely everybody here that JP has come back to more tasteful soloing. Yes, he had a hard shred phase, but I feel he's come full circle.
The only thing I wish he brought back on top of that is the jazzy stuff he did early on. But that's nitpicking.
The "jazzy" harmony, chromatics and melodic minor modes he used to incorporate were awesome. In terms of harmony, yes, he's doing simpler things now. A bit of a shame.
His style has definitely evolved, but I'm not sure if it's for the better. Even his tone is completely different (I miss the Ibanez + Mesa Boogie combo).
His sound evolved and switching from Ibanez to EBMM has very little to do with it. Early MM JP model and Ibanez JPM weren't much different in terms of construction and sound. Right now, yes, he uses i.e. different tonewoods and hotter pickups. But overall it's more about what he does now with FX and amp settings and the modern recording techniques and production style - more processing basically. I prefer his current tone, to be honest. BCSL and ADToE were amazing, so is D/T. Not a fan of the sound of the previous two releases.
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On the contrary, he's better than ever!
Long live the KING OF STRINGS !!! :metal
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I'll second most of what has been stated above. I felt the "not memorable melodic lines" at first, but they just need a little time. I have JP's At Wit's End solo stuck in my head at this very moment. Sure, the solos on this album might not be something as big as, say Razor's Edge or TSCO, but there are great melodic lines
I do admit I'm a huge Petrucci-fangirl and find it hard to dislike him at any point BUT I was just thinking yesterday how I feel like he kept it pretty simple with this album and was so much more about melody than technique. It hasn't always been that way, but I honestly don't see how OP can make this kind of comment after the latest album
Also here's what JP himself has to say about musicality vs. speed: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/john_petrucci_musicality_is_king_on_any_instrument_but_speed_is_still_fun.html
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He used to make brilliant compositions and solos...I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.
Strange comments given your admission that you're not particularly familiar with DT's post-MP material. https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=53476.msg2524721#msg2524721
I feel like the last time I really loved JP on a track was The Best of Times. He didn't overplay. It was tasteful and restrained. Not only that, it was memorable.
Best of Times solo is ofc awesome, but I don't understand your argument at all since you say that. Listen to the Barstool Warrior solo, isn't that exactly an extremely soulful and restrained solo, kinda in the same way as BOT? I even think the BW solo has some small details to it that make it sound even better than BOT.
Then you have FITL, Out of Reach, At Wit's End or even the wonderful playfulness in Room 137 etc. that showcase even more of that. The guitar nuances, tone and playing style in D/T is the best since SDOIT for me, which basically is the best award I can give it.
I guess you have to give us an example of how D/T is NOT exactly what you say you are missing, because I think for a lot in here it doesn't make sense.
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I'll second most of what has been stated above. I felt the "not memorable melodic lines" at first, but they just need a little time. I have JP's At Wit's End solo stuck in my head at this very moment. Sure, the solos on this album might not be something as big as, say Razor's Edge or TSCO, but there are great melodic lines
I do admit I'm a huge Petrucci-fangirl and find it hard to dislike him at any point BUT I was just thinking yesterday how I feel like he kept it pretty simple with this album and was so much more about melody than technique. It hasn't always been that way, but I honestly don't see how OP can make this kind of comment after the latest album
Also here's what JP himself has to say about musicality vs. speed: https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/general_music_news/john_petrucci_musicality_is_king_on_any_instrument_but_speed_is_still_fun.html
Well, it's mainly in tapping but the solo in S2N is pretty insane...the timing is quite crazy....he alternates groups of 6 and 9:6 over a 7/8+3/8+5/8 metric...
In terms of technique, he used a lot of tapping this time, often combined with arpeggio and sweeps...something he did not use much in the early albums.
I also love the PBD outro...very sinister but also melodic, where technique is used to create and release tension
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He used to make brilliant compositions and solos...I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.
If there was a wrong timing for a post like this, it's now.
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I dont play any instrument and i know nothing about the technical aspects of playing.
With that said, there was a time in JP's carrer that i thought that he had become too techinical, too shreddy. For my taste, that is.
He's been reconecting with the more melodical side (stupid term, i know) since maybe ADTOE, and for me, his playing on D/T has gone back to my favorite style. And with the bonus that i absolutely LOVE the guitar tone on the new album.
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DOT may be JP's best overall performance since Six Degrees. Just the right amount of flash, technique, and melodic phrasing.
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DOT may be JP's best overall performance since Six Degrees. Just the right amount of flash, technique, and melodic phrasing.
I agree with this, which makes the OP even more confusing. Not to mention the fact that his playing TA was incredibly melodic and soulful.
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He used to make brilliant compositions and solos...I feel like his mindset is more about technicality than melody these days.
To be very objective, I think you have a point. He's evolved since the 90s. I also felt like his playing was a lot colder, and a lot more technical. Especially in comparison with the stuff from WDADU-SFAM. Starting with Six Degrees, he lost (IMO) a lot of feel off his solos, and overplayed a bit. However, on this new record, and on The Astonishing (which I am not a fan of, but that's a different conversation) you can see he's re-emphasized it a little bit. As explained by others, At Wit's End is the perfect example.
Like any musician, JP evolves, as he should. Sometimes, musicians evolve away from what you enjoy. When that happens, you stay on board for the ride, or jump off. Lucky for me, at least regarding JP, the train came back around again, at least for the last two albums, and I jumped back on. But others may not feel that way.
No slagging of JP here. I am just glad he has (whether it was on purpose or involuntary) brought a bit more touch and drama back to his playing style.
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This opinion may have gathered steam after DT12, but TA and D/T have proved that JP still has plenty of melody and emotion in his playing style.
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DOT may be JP's best overall performance since Six Degrees. Just the right amount of flash, technique, and melodic phrasing.
I agree with this, which makes the OP even more confusing. Not to mention the fact that his playing TA was incredibly melodic and soulful.
I’d like to see the OP come back and defend himself. Literally the ONLY album with too many shred solos was Train of Thought and that was BY DESIGN.
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DOT may be JP's best overall performance since Six Degrees. Just the right amount of flash, technique, and melodic phrasing.
I agree with this, which makes the OP even more confusing. Not to mention the fact that his playing TA was incredibly melodic and soulful.
I’d like to see the OP come back and defend himself. Literally the ONLY album with too many shred solos was Train of Thought and that was BY DESIGN.
SDOIT was and still is fantastic. Solitary Shell, About to Crash, the Stem Cell song...Really great stuff. You can sing the choruses!
BCSL had way too many unnecessary sections that didn't add anything to the song. DOT is better in terms of making do with less, but it's still got a ways to go. The band really needs to demo songs and hire an outside producer, imho.
Even though I haven't bought an album since 8V, I've always listened to each album with an open mind. Though I'm no longer listening through the ears of a biased super fan.
I do get that DT's music takes a lot to digest, but I feel like the solos are pretty much pasted on top of sections that could be cut and pasted onto a different song.
Go back and listen to their catalog pre-2001 and you can hear a total shift in terms of songwriting. Yes, there's plenty of shred and instrumentals, but it doesn't feel completely indulgent. Even if you go back and listen to his '93 solo in the Live in Tokyo and it's like he's basically a different player. The chromatic runs were very minimal and brief. Everything had a pretty nice balanced approach.
It's hard to put a finger on it exactly since I don't know music theory but I hear a clear difference.
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If your point is that DT as a whole has not composed as well since SDOIT than I wholeheartedly agree....
I still love everything they do but they definitely peaked at SDOIT and shifted writing styles after that.
The post was about JP though... and his playing on the past 3 albums, including D/T has been extremely melodic and soulful. He brought some of the shred back on D/T but fans were clamoring for that so can you blame him? I think he did a great job of bringing that shred back while not losing sight of the melodies on this album though and there are a ton of melodic and emotionally melodic moments on the album.
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I really don't know what "soulful" means when it comes to guitar playing. I'm sure Petrucci gives it his all on every song. Whether or not that song or solo connects with me personally is another matter.
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If your point is that DT as a whole has not composed as well since SDOIT than I wholeheartedly agree....
I still love everything they do but they definitely peaked at SDOIT and shifted writing styles after that.
The post was about JP though... and his playing on the past 3 albums, including D/T has been extremely melodic and soulful. He brought some of the shred back on D/T but fans were clamoring for that so can you blame him? I think he did a great job of bringing that shred back while not losing sight of the melodies on this album though and there are a ton of melodic and emotionally melodic moments on the album.
The songwriting and his playing kind of go hand in hand, doesn't it? With MP gone, I'm assuming that it's JP leading the creative charge for the most part.
I don't know if I can separate the two concepts since folks have been asking me to expound on my opinions.
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Not sure if serious.
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It’s the bands 14th album... they all have families and are well established musicians. How many bands make a 14th album as good as their breakout albums?
I know I’m never going to get another sfam so I’m going to just enjoy when they make solid albums from start to finish. If anyone seems checked out on this album it’s JR imo and not JP. But that’s really just on the JR solos.
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This thread is from the twilight zone . . . first he's making it specifically about JP's soloing, then all of a sudden we've switched to "sections" of songs??? lol
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I was going to pick some arguments apart, but it's not worth it. I'll just keep enjoying the new record :metal
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This thread is from the twilight zone . . . first he's making it specifically about JP's soloing, then all of a sudden we've switched to "sections" of songs??? lol
Easy, he doesn't like DT post-MP it seems. So...
B.Lee
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His style has definitely evolved, but I'm not sure if it's for the better. Even his tone is completely different (I miss the Ibanez + Mesa Boogie combo).
I am in agreement with you and his playing seems a bit stale for the last 9 years. I started with DT at the beginning and really feal Awake and ACOS is the ultimate period. The last I felt inspired by John as a player was on BC&SL. I know players/musicians change over time, and that's fine, and I don't think anyone is saying he's a bad player, but he's changed, and not to everyone's liking, and that's an extremely valid opinion, not a harsh criticism.
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His style has definitely evolved, but I'm not sure if it's for the better. Even his tone is completely different (I miss the Ibanez + Mesa Boogie combo).
I am in agreement with you and his playing seems a bit stale for the last 9 years. I started with DT at the beginning and really feal Awake and ACOS is the ultimate period. The last I felt inspired by John as a player was on BC&SL. I know players/musicians change over time, and that's fine, and I don't think anyone is saying he's a bad player, but he's changed, and not to everyone's liking, and that's an extremely valid opinion, not a harsh criticism.
He didn't do anything unique on BCSL?
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This thread is from the twilight zone . . . first he's making it specifically about JP's soloing, then all of a sudden we've switched to "sections" of songs??? lol
My first post was about compositions. Solos, instrumental sections, etc are all covered under compositions.
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This thread is from the twilight zone . . . first he's making it specifically about JP's soloing, then all of a sudden we've switched to "sections" of songs??? lol
Easy, he doesn't like DT post-MP it seems. So...
B.Lee
Do be fair, the band lost me long before MP left. Everything from SC on has been just ok. There are a few songs here and there that are really good, but the quality of writing has gone downhill even though the technicality has actually gotten higher. But being more technical doesn't mean better.
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This thread is from the twilight zone . . . first he's making it specifically about JP's soloing, then all of a sudden we've switched to "sections" of songs??? lol
Easy, he doesn't like DT post-MP it seems. So...
B.Lee
Do be fair, the band lost me long before MP left. Everything from SC on has been just ok. There are a few songs here and there that are really good, but the quality of writing has gone downhill even though the technicality has actually gotten higher. But being more technical doesn't mean better.
But he isn't focused only in technicality now. The last years aren't like TOT era. You don't like, ok. It happens.
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This thread is from the twilight zone . . . first he's making it specifically about JP's soloing, then all of a sudden we've switched to "sections" of songs??? lol
Easy, he doesn't like DT post-MP it seems. So...
B.Lee
Do be fair, the band lost me long before MP left. Everything from SC on has been just ok. There are a few songs here and there that are really good, but the quality of writing has gone downhill even though the technicality has actually gotten higher. But being more technical doesn't mean better.
OK, fair enough, and I tend to agree with you that the clinical side of DT got the better of the music in SC and BC&SL. Then, I found them cold and not really appealing to my ears. They have come back to a less clinical approach with ADToE, albeit keeping some of that side. TA is full of melody and far from having the coldness of SC and BC&SL. Whether it is to your liking dépends only on you. With D/T, I think they have found the perfect balance between melody and technicality (does this word even exist?) again.
Now, back to topic, if what you say is that you miss the JP of old, I&W to SFAM era, it might be a matter of preference. I like JP in all periods of time : for me, he has lost nothing, he's just changed.
B.Lee
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JPs playing/writing style has certainly evolved over the years, and he's done nothing but improve his playing, but he has shown time and time again that he's more than capable of showing restraint and writing incredibly soulful/beautiful guitar parts, even if they're difficult and technical.
His style has definitely evolved, but I'm not sure if it's for the better. Even his tone is completely different (I miss the Ibanez + Mesa Boogie combo).
I actually love the his tone on this album.
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Go listen to Breaking All Illusions solo...
Yeah, it's old... Now. But in DT years its relatively new. He killed it with that solo.
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Go listen to Breaking All Illusions solo...
Yeah, it's old... Now. But in DT years its relatively new. He killed it with that solo.
It's weird how I still consider ADTOE to be a relatively new album.
It's 8 years old. Depressing. :lol
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This thread is from the twilight zone . . . first he's making it specifically about JP's soloing, then all of a sudden we've switched to "sections" of songs??? lol
Easy, he doesn't like DT post-MP it seems. So...
B.Lee
Do be fair, the band lost me long before MP left. Everything from SC on has been just ok. There are a few songs here and there that are really good, but the quality of writing has gone downhill even though the technicality has actually gotten higher. But being more technical doesn't mean better.
OK, fair enough, and I tend to agree with you that the clinical side of DT got the better of the music in SC and BC&SL. Then, I found them cold and not really appealing to my ears. They have come back to a less clinical approach with ADToE, albeit keeping some of that side. TA is full of melody and far from having the coldness of SC and BC&SL. Whether it is to your liking dépends only on you. With D/T, I think they have found the perfect balance between melody and technicality (does this word even exist?) again.
Now, back to topic, if what you say is that you miss the JP of old, I&W to SFAM era, it might be a matter of preference. I like JP in all periods of time : for me, he has lost nothing, he's just changed.
B.Lee
I don't think he's lost anything. The talent is there, I think his approach has changed?
I definitely prefer the JP of old from I&W through 6DOIT. ToT appeals to the Metallica fan in me, but I'll admit the instrumental sections didn't always fit the song. This is probably the last album from them that I thoroughly enjoyed.
I soooo wanted to like TA. I actually love musicals, I love rock operas...What could go wrong? But outside of Our New World, it didn't resonate with me. DOT...The JP sounds FAB, but in terms of playing strong, cohesive songs, the bar is still far below SFAM / 6DOIT.
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Are you criticizing the songwriting now not the guitar playing?
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We keep moving the goalposts here, don't we? The criticism falls flat right away when you say you haven't paid much attention to the Mangini era, and you don't buy the albums anymore.
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The JP I’m hearing on this album is the same JP I’ve been a fan of since 1999. The leads in Paralyzed, Barstool Warrior, At Wit’s End and many more are soulful, melodic and impressively technical in a few spots. Awake is my favorite album with also my favorite JP guitar work, but on this album he’s basically on the same level IMO. One of his strongest efforts I’d say: the guitar work and JP’s masterful sense of melody just make this album.
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Yeah, clearly, there was a shift in the discussion from JP's playing to DT's songs. Lack of coherence.
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Bertielee,
JP plays during those Dream Theater songs if I remember correctly. I can only judge his guitar playing by going off the songs he wrote.
We keep moving the goalposts here, don't we? The criticism falls flat right away when you say you haven't paid much attention to the Mangini era, and you don't buy the albums anymore.
I've heard every song they've released even if I haven't bought anything in years. I'm also not predisposed to like the material because I'm not invested in it. That's the beauty of looking at this band from the outside, I don't HAVE to like nor do I HAVE to listen to an alright song to find nuggets of gold.
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Well... to the OP, as one that is JP’s age, I understand his playing from his first recordings because his influences were mine also, so WDADU “was what it was”. Then came IAW..AWAKE.....SFAM..and SDOIT.....and to ADTOE...TA...now....The world has changed as has music.....and his influences...just the way it is...influences have grown because of time. I think JP is the best progressive/metal, if not general one of the best guitarists in the world now......WHY? Because we’re discussing him on a DT forum, and not some anyhoo wannabe who has never written great original music forum that doesn’t exist(not you, or anyone specific)...It is what it is!
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Random, but the bend at 7:19 is one of the most amazing, subtle, incredible things JP has done it makes me heart cry. Could be a top 5 JP moment already for me.
This album really has made me fall in love with him again, big time.
??? Are you talking about At Wit's End? (that and PBD are the only songs that are long enough to have a "7:19") I don't hear a bend there. I hear vibratto, but I'm not sure he bends to that. He does bend into the high note about 2 second later though. Is that what you mean?
Yeah sorry, At Wit's End. Maybe it's 7:20, it's an amazing bend which follows a 4 note run down and then some quick shred. JP plays the note first with some stacato then bends the note in such a why like he's making the guitar cry.
:o
That's awesome indeed, wow! Takes a lot to get subtle phrasing like this done perfectly.
wolfking, thanks for saying basically all I would say (as a guitarist as well) about JP's playing style. DoT contains so much good stuff from him, it has actually sparked me to go back to all their previous albums after years of barely listening to Dream Theater at all and discovering lots of nice things I never really heard before (and hearing lots of awesome stuff I obviously recognised).
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I guess it’s appropriate to post this video here, was just posted today
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Je_ulo9Yp7Y
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Bertielee,
JP plays during those Dream Theater songs if I remember correctly. I can only judge his guitar playing by going off the songs he wrote.
Yeah, I get it, but still, title is a little misleading then.
B.Lee