Dream Theater entered the studio in February v. No News is Good News

[Stadler]

Historically double albums are never the bands best work or have enough great material on to warrant so many tracks.

You get the inevitable " oh - imagine if DT13 was one album " talk for years afterwards.

I suppose a double album could be a reaction to DT12 being relatively short.

I have never heard that once regarding "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road", "Physical Grafitti", or "The Wall", and rarely with regard to "The White Album" or "Marbles" (and with the former, it's usually from haters wanting less "experimentation" ala Revolution 9 and more "same" ala "Ob-la-di, Ob-la-da").

[mikeyd23]

Ain't nothing necessarily wrong with a double album, that's for sure!

[ReaperKK]

Historically double albums are never the bands best work or have enough great material on to warrant so many tracks.

You get the inevitable " oh - imagine if DT13 was one album " talk for years afterwards.

I suppose a double album could be a reaction to DT12 being relatively short.

After listening to both Use Your Illusion albums recently I agree, there is about one album's worth of great songs there.

[?]

DREAM THEATER
"It's gone on longer than ever. You'll see why..."
John Petrucci on why the brand new album could be a double

It doesn't make sense to me. Why would JP especulate about the length of the album? It is or it is not.

Perhaps they've recorded more than 80 minutes of music, but haven't decided whether all of it will make the final cut? (myung'd by hef)

I'm firmly in the "please no double album" camp. I'd prefer a tight album and an EP of outtakes, à la Porcupine Tree's Fear of a Blank Planet and Nil Recurring. Six Degrees turned out pretty well, but most of 00s DT albums have included plenty of filler IMO.

[425]

I don't particularly care for the length of double albums, because it's hard to maintain quality. I'm not even particularly keen on filling up the one CD, unless you're really sure you can do it. I've liked double albums (usually concepts) and plenty of 75+ minute albums, but there are also a lot that feel too long and are tiring to listen to.

The one DT made a double album, I don't hold in high esteem compared to their other works, so just based on that I'd prefer if they'd keep it to one disc. They're allowed to go up to 80 minutes, though, because they can often pull that off.

[rumborak]

Historically double albums are never the bands best work or have enough great material on to warrant so many tracks.

You get the inevitable " oh - imagine if DT13 was one album " talk for years afterwards.

I suppose a double album could be a reaction to DT12 being relatively short.

After listening to both Use Your Illusion albums recently I agree, there is about one album's worth of great songs there.

That's for me the prime example of "double album that should have been one".

[TAC]

No doubt. Except I wouldn't trust GnR to keep the best songs, so I'm glad they released both so I could make my own UYI!

[goo-goo]

I have mixed feelings about DT13 being a double album. I was hoping more of an experimental approach to this new album but it seems (appears) that is going to be more of a quantity vs quality approach.

[cramx3]

I have mixed feelings about DT13 being a double album. I was hoping more of an experimental approach to this new album but it seems (appears) that is going to be more of a quantity vs quality approach.

How can anyone make this assumption?  No one has heard anything so how would anyone know what quality the album will be. 

[Zydar]

Do we even have confirmation that it's going to be a double album?

[cramx3]

Do we even have confirmation that it's going to be a double album?

No, just a vauge JP quote that we at DTF are picking apart as usual 

[Zydar]

Forgot about that

Carry on.

[RoeDent]

These days, with playlisting, you can take out the tracks you don't like and make your own album, without the "filler". Or just don't listen to the whole thing in a single go, if you don't want to. No one's forcing you.

[goo-goo]

I have mixed feelings about DT13 being a double album. I was hoping more of an experimental approach to this new album but it seems (appears) that is going to be more of a quantity vs quality approach.

How can anyone make this assumption?  No one has heard anything so how would anyone know what quality the album will be.

I know. My point being is that DT has spent time in the studio since February and finished before this last tour they did. 4 months maybe in the studio? Ever since Systematic, DT seems to try and fill the disc with 70-80 mins of music instead of working on stronger songs. Again, this is my opinion. One of DT's problems in my view is quantity vs quality.

[Kotowboy]

I'm firmly in the "please no double album" camp. I'd prefer a tight album and an EP of outtakes, à la Porcupine Tree's Fear of a Blank Planet and Nil Recurring. Six Degrees turned out pretty well, but most of 00s DT albums have included plenty of filler IMO.

Nil Recurring was just as good as FOABP in my view.

[cramx3]

These days, with playlisting, you can take out the tracks you don't like and make your own album, without the "filler". Or just don't listen to the whole thing in a single go, if you don't want to. No one's forcing you.

Good point, one person's filler is another one's ... treasure?

[Kotowboy]

Well technically everyones filler should be everyone's filler since people misuse the word filler to mean " I don't like this song " when it should be used for when the band purposefully

writes a song with the sole intention of filling up space on an album.

[cramx3]

Well technically everyones filler should be everyone's filler since people misuse the word filler to mean " I don't like this song " when it should be used for when the band purposefully

writes a song with the sole intention of filling up space on an album.

True, but do bands ever openly admit to doing this?  Do we know of any reason to think DT does this? I guess evidence is that they write long albums, but that doesn't necessarily mean they write "filler" songs.  hell, they even play all their songs live so I doubt they would play a "filler" song live.  I get what you mean though.

[425]

Black Sabbath I'm pretty sure admits that Paranoid was filler.

[Kotowboy]

And Metallica with Escape.

[cramx3]

Ha funny, now that you mention it, I think Def Leppard admitted Pour Some Sugar on Me was filler.  lol funny how things work out.

[425]

And Metallica with Escape.

And note, neither of those songs is particularly awful. One is just about the simplest rock song ever written, but it's obviously been memorable, and the other is kind of childish compared to the other ones on the album but is also a decent song that doesn't drag the quality of the album down.

[Madman Shepherd]

Black Sabbath I'm pretty sure admits that Paranoid was filler.

Yes, in the sense that they wrote it to take up space but i think they had equal purpose to put a faster song on there to switch things up a bit. Neon Knights was the same way.

[TAC]

Didn't PMU start out as filler?

[Kotowboy]

Didn't PMU start out as filler?

Yeah they couldnt be bothered to finish it.

[Robo4900]

The way it's been working for years is they write and record until they're satisfied, do all the post production stuff, and release. If they have written more music than will fit on once disc this time, there's no reason they can't do another double album.

I don't see the logic behind writing more music and then putting half the stuff you've written on B-sides or an EP. It just... Doesn't make sense IMO. All it does is essentially lock off all the extra music to the hardcore fans, who would probably just end up complaining about it anyway.
So, consider me in support of the album being exactly as long as needs to be. Even if it comes in a box the size of my house and is on 300 CDs; it means I won't need planning permission to build my evil lair.

Didn't PMU start out as filler?

PMU came from an idea from Derek Olver(One of the people from their label at the time). His suggestion laid the groundwork for the song, thus its working title of "Oliver's Twist".

[The Dark Master]

The way it's been working for years is they write and record until they're satisfied, do all the post production stuff, and release. If they have written more music than will fit on once disc this time, there's no reason they can't do another double album.

I don't see the logic behind writing more music and then putting half the stuff you've written on B-sides or an EP. It just... Doesn't make sense IMO. All it does is essentially lock off all the extra music to the hardcore fans, who would probably just end up complaining about it anyway.
So, consider me in support of the album being exactly as long as needs to be. Even if it comes in a box the size of my house and is on 300 CDs; it means I won't need planning permission to build my evil lair.

Pretty much this.  I hate b-sides and non-album tracks.  If you have a complete song, put it on a proper album.  If that means the album needs to be a double album, then make it a double.  I don't want to have to get every goddamn single and EP to hear all these extra songs that should have just been on the full album anyways.

[Setlist Scotty]

These days, with playlisting, you can take out the tracks you don't like and make your own album, without the "filler". Or just don't listen to the whole thing in a single go, if you don't want to. No one's forcing you.

Good point, one person's filler is another one's ... treasure?

Absolutely. How often have there been those "best of" threads on here with people listing their favorite song(s) from each album or listing them in order of preference. It amazes me how many people's opinions conflict with each other's about what's great and what's not.

That being said, I have no problem with the band setting aside some of the songs that they've written and recorded for something other than an album, whether it be for bonus tracks, B-sides, compilations, soundtracks, etc. It might be a bit of a pain to collect, but as a collector, I do enjoy hunting them down like a hidden treasure that has to be found.

And really, I'd rather the band write more material than is needed and then pick what songs are strongest and/or are most fitting for the overall feel of the album, even if I don't ultimately agree with all of their song choices. I can't help but think of Porcupine Tree's song Drown With Me - an absolutely beautiful song, that has a great hooky chorus; but it didn't fit the vibe feel of the album (In Absentia) so it was (IMO) properly left off the album.

[The Dark Master]

That being said, I have no problem with the band setting aside some of the songs that they've written and recorded for something other than an album, whether it be for bonus tracks, B-sides, compilations, soundtracks, etc. It might be a bit of a pain to collect, but as a collector, I do enjoy hunting them down like a hidden treasure that has to be found.

You may like the "hunt", but for me, it has always proved to have been a major annoyance and a  waste of money.  I was really into Nightwish back towards the end of the Tarja era, and I bought a whole bunch of singles just for the extra tracks that didn't make the albums (even though they totally could have fit; and did on the European special editions).  Spending 7 dollars a pop on obscure singles that maybe had one new song each that I couldn't get any other way...  it's really not worth it.

And sure, now I could just get each extra track from Amazon or iTunes for a buck each, but then I don't have them on the physical CD that I just bought, and it's an annoyance if I want to listen to those songs with the record.  I'd rather just have them on the album proper, with the rest of the songs.

The only reason Dream Theater did not release Image and Words or Falling Into Infinity as double albums was because of the lack of control they had over their careers at the time.  If the record company had been willing to give them carte blanche back then, as they did after SFAM, I'm sure we would have seen an 11 track 80+ minute I&W, and a 16 track 2+ hours FII.  And frankly, that's the way it should have been.

[Stadler]

Some of you are forgetting too that some of these musicians grew up in the same era I (and several others here) did, where albums were a cohesive piece of work.  They had a theme, or a sound, or a feel, and anything that didn't fit ("Total Eclipse" by Maiden), or that sounded too much like something else already on the album ("Paperlate" by Genesis) got relegated to a B-Side. 

That art is lost by most bands, though, interestingly, I think Rush still adheres to that ethos, Maiden too, they are just not beholden to "two halves of 18 minutes each".

[TAC]

The only reason Dream Theater did not release Image and Words or Falling Into Infinity as double albums was because of the lack of control they had over their careers at the time.  If the record company had been willing to give them carte blanche back then, as they did after SFAM, I'm sure we would have seen an 11 track 80+ minute I&W, and a 16 track 2+ hours FII.  And frankly, that's the way it should have been.

FII was weak enough as a single album.

Back in the day, bands had to cut songs out that thy did not ultimately feel were strong enough for the album. I have no problem with songs getting left off.
One of the criticisms against DT is that once they had sufficient material to fill a CD (which is basically a double album based on yesteryear's time limits) they stopped writing.

[Voices]

Now, reading all of this, I think this album will be longer than the others.

[Sacul]

FII was weak enough as a single album.

That's because Raise the Knife didn't make the cut

[OpenYourEyes311]

FII was weak enough as a single album.

That's because Raise the Knife didn't make the cut

I see what you did there.

[rumborak]

Music isn't like a construction site where after a certain amount of work you can be sure of the quality of the output. I have personally been in the situation of writing songs in a band situation, and there are always the songs that everybody feels have great potential, but even after spending so much time on them, they just don't come together.
In DT's mode of operation, where they stop writing the moment they have enough material, those songs actually end up on the album.