2017 NFL thread v. Patriots Dynasty

[TAC]

Be absolutely was.  But how he's handled himself in the media since makes me enjoy those moments.

He's been a complete ass. I get it. He probably has a right to be upset, but to whine every time he's on TV, C'mon man!

[King Postwhore]

He's also quoting folklore as gospel.

[Cable]

A running back in Mike Martz system has every right to feel cheated. The problem with this situation is that the running back's anger is mis-placed. It should be directed at his own coach, instead.

Marshall Faulk was never more productive than when he played in Mike Martz's offense.

When Martz was only the OC, sure. That team was amazing. After he became the HC it was almost like he forgot how to call run plays. I understand that running the ball wasn't going to be the focus of that team under most circumstances, but the running game wasn't even a threat under most of his tenure.

*Disclosure; I have never lived on the east coast. I started following NE in 95-96, when they were 6-10. I had two Marshall Faulk jerseys, one for each team he played for.*

I think Faulk is a top 5 RB, his numbers in 99-01 are astounding. And the surrounding years are HoF worthy too most likely. He lives in the past, and as you said Powerslave, Martz shares a big part of fault. Man was delusional thinking he can overcome turnovers. That being said, it is a team game. The team that Marshall hates ran into the same problem that his team did, twice. If Marshall was given the ball 40 times to run, I'm sure NE would have continued pummeling him.

-Dork time, and I just did the numbers. 17 for 76, 4 for 4. 10 carries of 3 yards or less, one for 12 and 15 (longest). His ratio of rush attempt to reception was higher in the SB than during the season (3.13 to one). He had 24.5 per game touches in the season, 21 in the SB.

I doubt 3-4 more touches would have been the game.

[axeman90210]

He's also quoting folklore as gospel.

Hey, don't knock it, you can get elected president by doing that

[King Postwhore]

 

How dare you lump him with...


Oh, wait a minute...   

[TAC]

[KevShmev]

A running back in Mike Martz system has every right to feel cheated. The problem with this situation is that the running back's anger is mis-placed. It should be directed at his own coach, instead.

Marshall Faulk was never more productive than when he played in Mike Martz's offense.

When Martz was only the OC, sure. That team was amazing. After he became the HC it was almost like he forgot how to call run plays. I understand that running the ball wasn't going to be the focus of that team under most circumstances, but the running game wasn't even a threat under most of his tenure.

That is simply not true.  Martz became the head coach in 2000 and Faulk was a beast of epic proportions in '00 and '01.  In fact, he was MVP of the league in 2000, Martz's first year as the head coach! 

And I enjoy his tears every time Faulk cries.

He was a great player, but I can understand why you folks in New England would feel that way.

Patriots fans hate anyone who dares speak out against their beloved team. I mean, they hate Tomlinson for no reason whatsoever, and LT2 was one of the classier players in the NFL in the 00s.

[PowerSlave]

A running back in Mike Martz system has every right to feel cheated. The problem with this situation is that the running back's anger is mis-placed. It should be directed at his own coach, instead.

Marshall Faulk was never more productive than when he played in Mike Martz's offense.

When Martz was only the OC, sure. That team was amazing. After he became the HC it was almost like he forgot how to call run plays. I understand that running the ball wasn't going to be the focus of that team under most circumstances, but the running game wasn't even a threat under most of his tenure.

That is simply not true.  Martz became the head coach in 2000 and Faulk was a beast of epic proportions in '00 and '01.  In fact, he was MVP of the league in 2000, Martz's first year as the head coach! 

And I enjoy his tears every time Faulk cries.

He was a great player, but I can understand why you folks in New England would feel that way.

Patriots fans hate anyone who dares speak out against their beloved team. I mean, they hate Tomlinson for no reason whatsoever, and LT2 was one of the classier players in the NFL in the 00s.

I think the hate for Tomlinson probably comes from his reaction after that playoff game where he went on a rant about New England players disrespecting the Chargers. That's only a guess on my part. Seeing as how he ended up playing for the Jets later in his career probably doesn't help his cause, either.

About Martz, yes I'm talking a little bit out of my ass, but from a certain point of view there's some truth to it. I do know that Jon Kitna (when he was the OC of the Lions), and Jay Cutler (when he was the OC for the Bears) got absolutely beat to death. Partly due to opposing defenses pinning their ears back, and cranking up the pass rush. Supposedly there's some NFL Films footage of Cutler losing his shit during a game because Martz kept sending him on deep drops, and they weren't running the ball ect. ect... I remember reading some stuff on it years ago, but I can't remember any specifics. Then there's the fact that Kurt Warner ended up looking like a lost cause a few years after Martz took over the Rams. It took everything that the Steelers had, and James Harrison making one of the most remarkable plays in SB history to barely squeak by KW in that game well after the Rams gave up on him.

I'm not a Mike Martz fan 

[King Postwhore]

Kev, I can admire his play but hate him for how he handles himself about the team I follow.  That's not hard to understand.

[Stadler]

Exactly.  I have been consistent all along that deflating footballs is like doing 70 in a 55, but while there is no way to prove Brady knew it, common sense tells us that he did.  Saying a QB doesn't know if a football he touches on every play is different is like the equipment guy putting bigger, illegal pads on a hockey goalie and then saying, "The goalie didn't know!"  Of course he would know.  Just like any QB would know.

Except you're not talking about handing a guitar player a set of drumsticks.   "Common sense" (which, of course, we all know there is no such thing) says that it's somewhere firmly in that "gray zone".   Brady throwing a football likely said something along the lines of "hey, ball douche, toss me that ball.  I like it better. it's not as "blown up"."    Fast forward to Championship Game, and the team is in the locker room and Belichick is telling his team "The difference is in the DETAILS!  We need every person in this room, from Brady down to the ball douche to be doing EVERY SINGLE THING THEY CAN to win this game!  Execution!   Focus!   Details!"    Fast forward to ball douche preparing the balls and... you can fill in the rest.   Things don't happen like they do on NCIS, where there is a neat little trail for Abbie Sciuto to suss out with the latest Infrared Refractory Fingerprint Oscillator. 

Forget about "right" or "wrong"; the NFL said they broke the rules, they were punished, so be it.  I don't say this to argue that the punishment was wrong or too harsh, but just as a practical matter, I honestly don't think Brady DID know the details, since I don't for a second believe that there were actually details to be known. 

[mikeyd23]

Man, I used to love Marshall Faulk, he was an awesome RB.

[PB1]

The guy's nickname was The Deflator, for fucks sake. Brady absolutely knew.

[Stadler]

The guy's nickname was The Deflator, for fucks sake. Brady absolutely knew.

He was known as "The Deflator" for being able to get footballs to within 0.25 PSI of the minimum of 12.5 PSI.   

Is that true? I don't know, and neither do you.  I had a guy on my softball team that was named "The Hammer".  He really wasn't a "hammer".  I knew a guy in college who was nicknamed "Dog", but here's the funny thing:  he wasn't really a dog, in any sense of the word.  Not four-legged, not sexually, not hygiene.   Go figure, huh?   

[King Postwhore]

But for fucks sake Stadler!

The actions of the league during the investigation as well as the way they handled the the 3 allegations for the Giants this past year should show you what a farce it all was.

Your real issue is you're tired of their dominance which I get because i did the same thing with Dallas ect...

[TAC]

But for fucks sake Stadler!

The actions of the league during the investigation as well as the way they handled the the 3 allegations for the Giants this past year should show you what a farce it all was.

Your real issue is you're tired of their dominance which I get because i did the same thing with Dallas ect...

Joe, I think you're misreading that. Stadler has been defending Brady.

[King Postwhore]

No, the first line was a joke to Stadler because we both responded to PB1's post saying "For fucks sake".

The rest was for PB1.

[TAC]

Oh for fuck's sake kingshmegland! 

[King Postwhore]

 

[PB1]

The guy's nickname was The Deflator, for fucks sake. Brady absolutely knew.

He was known as "The Deflator" for being able to get footballs to within 0.25 PSI of the minimum of 12.5 PSI.   

Is that true? I don't know, and neither do you.  I had a guy on my softball team that was named "The Hammer".  He really wasn't a "hammer".  I knew a guy in college who was nicknamed "Dog", but here's the funny thing:  he wasn't really a dog, in any sense of the word.  Not four-legged, not sexually, not hygiene.   Go figure, huh?   

thanks for that completely irrelevant personal anecdote. it doesn't change a thing.

Yes, the patriots are a great organization. Yes, Belichick and Brady are hall of fame players. Yes, The Patriots, including Brady and Belichick have cheated for years. Brady absolutely was involved in deflating footballs to gain an edge over his opponents.

[TAC]

  Brady absolutely was involved in deflating footballs to gain an edge over his opponents.

You can't seriously be offended by that can you? To gain an edge? If you don't think that every QB in the league has a personal football masseuse, you're crazy.

You can be put off by the Pats' smugness over the whole thing, but if you're upset at the fact that Brady had a couple of football "preparers", I think you're being naοve about what goes on in the league.

[King Postwhore]

Might as well take every trophy away from every team that won then.

[KevShmev]

I'm not a Mike Martz fan 

I'm not either.  His total disregard for timeouts was just crazy (how many times did the Rams run out of timeouts in the 3rd quarter?), and his style was one the league figured out somewhat quickly, but for three glorious years, the offense he ran was the greatest any of us had ever seen.

[Stadler]

Brady absolutely was involved in deflating footballs to gain an edge over his opponents.

Simple:  Prove it.   You're so sure, prove it.   

Here's the thing that most naysayers don't get:  this isn't like "rape" or "murder", where if you can prove sex or find a body, you've got a crime.   And if you can prove "planning", you've got conspiracy.   Depending on the timing, depending on the outcome, deflating the balls to 12.6 PSI is NOT illegal.  Deflating the balls to 12.4 PSI IS illegal.   There are a 100 things besides "deflating" that could move those balls from 12.6 to 12.4, and none of them are a "crime".   Brady telling the "Deflator" (it is my understanding he gives happy endings in the locker room, thus the nickname) to "make those balls like I like 'em!" is not a crime itself, and is not indicative of a crime.   People who are not celebrities want to impress celebrities.  This would not be the first time - not in a long shot (have you read "Hammer of the Gods", about Led Zeppelin?  Do you think Richard Cole would have done half of what he did if it wasn't for the pleasure of Robert Plant, Jimmy Page and/or John Bonham?) - that someone took direction and went overboard to "please their boss".   

[El Barto]

Christ, even I'm tired of debating this shit now. People have made up their minds and emotionally entrenched themselves. I maintain that the balls weren't even deflated, per the Wells Report, but nobody seems to care, so life goes on.

In other news, Blount is off to Phili. I'm pretty cool with this. I'm happy for him to get a shot somewhere and NE gets a compensatory pick for him. He could be a good fit for Phili's offense. However, my money would be on another Pittsburgh type adventure. Either way it seems like a win for all.

[cramx3]

Speaking of Brady and the Patriots...
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/tom-brady-suffer-concussion-last-year-gisele-says-132941059.html

[El Barto]

Speaking of Brady and the Patriots...
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/tom-brady-suffer-concussion-last-year-gisele-says-132941059.html

Jerry Jones: Laurel, get Little Roger on the phone.
Roger Goodel: Yes sir, Mr. Jones. I'm already on top of it.
Roger Goodel: Melinda, get Ted Wells on the phone please.
Ted Wells: Sure, Roger. One number six, coming up.

[King Postwhore]

Yep EB.

If the refs don't see it and the player hides it from the team there is nothing anyone can do.

[cramx3]

I don't really see it as a provable actionable offense based just on what Giselle says, but then again, we know that Goodell doesn't seem to need any of that and has a hard on for the Pats so I wouldn't rule out a fine or something.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

If the concussion protocol wasn't followed, then something needs to happen, or no one is going to take it seriously.

[El Barto]

It's already kind of a joke. Who was it that got knocked the fuck out 18 months go and remained in the game to take a game losing sack? Kev would know. In any case, I'm not sure there's any protocol problem here. If nobody knew he might have gotten his bell rung then I'm not sure where any problem would arise from a rules standpoint.

[King Postwhore]

Cam Newton got crushed last year against Denver.  I think some players will hide it when it's mild. 

[Destiny Of Chaos]

It's already kind of a joke. Who was it that got knocked the fuck out 18 months go and remained in the game to take a game losing sack? Kev would know. In any case, I'm not sure there's any protocol problem here. If nobody knew he might have gotten his bell rung then I'm not sure where any problem would arise from a rules standpoint.

Case Keenum @ Baltimore in 2015 comes to mind.

[El Barto]

It's already kind of a joke. Who was it that got knocked the fuck out 18 months go and remained in the game to take a game losing sack? Kev would know. In any case, I'm not sure there's any protocol problem here. If nobody knew he might have gotten his bell rung then I'm not sure where any problem would arise from a rules standpoint.

Case Keenum @ Baltimore in 2015 comes to mind.

Yup, that's the one. That dude finished the game from Henrietta. Kind had that Trevor Berbick thing going on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=204GsqfRlKc

[PowerSlave]

Brady telling the "Deflator" (it is my understanding he gives happy endings in the locker room, thus the nickname) to "make those balls like I like 'em!"

 

[PowerSlave]

The Steelers just cut Ladarius Green for a failed physical. Not a hugely surprising move, but they didn't address the position in the draft. Jesse James is a capable TE, but I'm not sold on him being a full time starter.