Am I a bad person?

[Stadler]

I think the vernacular is "don't dip your pen in company ink", or, more crudely, "don't shit where you eat."   Sound advice that one.

[wolfking]

A little backstory: I have been with my girlfriend for two and a half years. She is the love of my life and I plan on marrying her and having a family and future with her someday. I also started a new job back in February and have made a few friends there, all girls around my age.

One of my coworkers told me that she and her boyfriend of six years just broke up. We talked about it for a little bit and I gave her the best advice I could, along the lines of “you guys started dating when you were still a teenager, so use this time to discover who you are as an adult outside of a relationship so you can be the best version of you”. Fast forward to a couple of days later, and she texts me saying that she drank too much and is feeling really down on herself. We start talking about our work schedules and how we wish our schedules lined up more often. She then asks when I’m free to go out for drinks, and me thinking nothing of it, start making plans with her, as in my mind I would be hanging out with a friend. She then starts sending blushing emojis and heart eye emojis and being pretty flirtatious. At this point it’s pretty late so I go to sleep. The next day we’re talking about work again and once again we’re talking about wanting out schedules to line up. She also asks if I’m still on for plans next Thursday, and I say yes. My girlfriend knows about none of this. Only my two best friends know, who I have on standby in case the night takes a weird turn and I need one of them to come and interject into the situation/get me out of there.

Should I feel guilty about this? I absolutely will NOT cheat on my girlfriend, as I’m head over heels in love with her and cheating goes against everything I stand for as a person and for me would be the equivalent of a character suicide. As far as I’m concerned I’m hanging out with a friend, but I’m holding off on telling my girlfriend because even without my friend from work being a little flirty, my girlfriend is a bit insecure and telling her that I have plans with a friend who is a single girl around our age will set her off. I want to hang out with my friend, because even if she makes a move, I won’t reciprocate, and IF she makes a move, I would absolutely tell my girlfriend about that. Still, this is a situation I’ve never dealt with before, and I have no idea if I’m handling things correctly.

Jesus, there is so much wrong here it's not funny.

1.  You are posting here asking the question = red flag.

2.  You can't tell your girlfriend = red flag.

3.  Wake up to yourself, she is looking for a rebound guy = red flag, gonna end badly.

4.  Of course your girlfriend will get upset if you tell her you are having drinks with a single girl around the same age.  Do you blame her?  If my misses said that to me about going for drinks with a single guy her age just as 'friends', I'd have the same response.  I would ask why she would even need to do that.  I get friends and all, but this seems quite different.

5.  I find it troubling you say you love your misses and want to marry her but are happy to go for drinks with a chick that just broke up with her boyfriend and sends you lovey dovey messages?  You are expecting her to make a move so why would you put yourself in that situation?  You should have stopped it right there at the messages and not agreed to meet up.

You're not a bad person, but there are a lot of alarm bells here that should make you a little worried.

[TAC]

I was in a very similar situation a number of years back - formed a close friendship with a female.  mrs.jingle knew all about it, but ultimately she felt things were crossing some kind of line. I wasn't doing anything I wouldn't have done with any of my  guy buddies ...

No wonder she was uncomfortable.

[Skeever]

In Chinese there's a word "ai mei" 暧昧 which means something like "ambiguous relationship" but almost always applies to men and women who are in some kind of relationship or affair that has just not been acknowledged yet. If you were to tell your buddies about this they would all immediately recognize this as "ai mei" and know exactly where it was going and what the stakes were. But in English these situations seem less articulated.

[wolfking]

I was in a very similar situation a number of years back - formed a close friendship with a female.  mrs.jingle knew all about it, but ultimately she felt things were crossing some kind of line. I wasn't doing anything I wouldn't have done with any of my  guy buddies ...

No wonder she was uncomfortable.

 

[Lonk]

Just ask yourself, how would you feel if that was happening to your girlfriend instead?

[Adami]

Yes. 

[jingle.boy]

I was in a very similar situation a number of years back - formed a close friendship with a female.  mrs.jingle knew all about it, but ultimately she felt things were crossing some kind of line.  I wasn't doing anything I wouldn't have done with any ofmy  guy buddies ... but that didn't matter - to mrs.jingle she thought it was getting a little too cozy.  So, I ended the friendship.  Full-stop.

There's a tasteless joke in there somewhere.     

I was in a very similar situation a number of years back - formed a close friendship with a female.  mrs.jingle knew all about it, but ultimately she felt things were crossing some kind of line. I wasn't doing anything I wouldn't have done with any of my  guy buddies ...

No wonder she was uncomfortable.

Ima gonna nickname you two Beavis and Butthead.  Who wants to be which?

[TAC]

[Elite]

Don’t do it.

I don’t at all agree with the idea that as a man you wouldn’t be allowed to do something nice with a female friend (same thing the other way round), but this particular situation is bad. I can tell you from first-hand experience.

[Ben_Jamin]

Fast forward to a couple of days later, and she texts me saying that she drank too much and is feeling really down on herself.

This right here, should be a big warning sign. She is likely drinking to cope with the feeling of loneliness from her breakup. Especially considering it's one that rooted from a young teen relationship. At this point, for your own relationship, you should tell her to come to you when she isn't drinking, and to talk when there is no alcohol involved and she can be in her right mind. If she is inviting you for drinks, that's straight up innuendo for, my feelings are all over the place and my inhibitions are running wild, and I may end up doing anything.

I know this because that reminds me of some girls I actually know. Most of whom went out for drinks with a friend they knew. All ended the same with them leaving together, as both lost their inhibitions as the alcohol took over. I actually went out with some of them alone, as that ear, and have had some of them begin to hit on me, I am single so it didn't matter to me if I did anything, but I am also bi, so I didn't do anything. Later the next day, they were glad nothing happened because they recollected and came to understand that they drank and acted out because of their break-up and just needed that moment to be free and vent out.

She's still young too, and this is something she has to deal with on her own. You can be that ear, but don't let her get too close to where you can feel the breathe of her whisper.

[Ben_Jamin]

I think I’m gonna try to make it a group hang. Part of me thinks there flirting was because she was drinking, and even if I was single, this girl being drunk and hurt from her breakup would keep me away anyway. If I can have a few other friends around as a bit of a buffer while she sorts herself out that would be great, and I think my girlfriend would be a lot more comfortable with a group hangout, because at the end of the day, I do have to keep her in mind when making decisions.

If you have more guy friends there, it will make a big difference for your GF being there. As it means, your coworker can focus on the other guys rather than you...

Unless, you are more handsome than your friends. 

[Mladen]

4.  Of course your girlfriend will get upset if you tell her you are having drinks with a single girl around the same age.  Do you blame her?  If my misses said that to me about going for drinks with a single guy her age just as 'friends', I'd have the same response.  I would ask why she would even need to do that.  I get friends and all, but this seems quite different.

I found this very interesting. Are people that are in relationships only supposed to be friends with people that are not single? Is this the criteria by which to choose your friends once you have someone in your life?

[King Postwhore]

4.  Of course your girlfriend will get upset if you tell her you are having drinks with a single girl around the same age.  Do you blame her?  If my misses said that to me about going for drinks with a single guy her age just as 'friends', I'd have the same response.  I would ask why she would even need to do that.  I get friends and all, but this seems quite different.

I found this very interesting. Are people that are in relationships only supposed to be friends with people that are not single? Is this the criteria by which to choose your friends once you have someone in your life?

No. Not at all but the issue is about honesty and being truthful to the one you love. Not telling his girlfriend is the issue.

Add that if you flipped it around would you be ok with the same situation?  I think not.

[Podaar]

Yes.

QFT

[wolfking]

4.  Of course your girlfriend will get upset if you tell her you are having drinks with a single girl around the same age.  Do you blame her?  If my misses said that to me about going for drinks with a single guy her age just as 'friends', I'd have the same response.  I would ask why she would even need to do that.  I get friends and all, but this seems quite different.

I found this very interesting. Are people that are in relationships only supposed to be friends with people that are not single? Is this the criteria by which to choose your friends once you have someone in your life?

I knew this point would get picked up and get this very response.

While no, it's not a criteria you have to live by if you are in a relationship.  I guess everyone is different and some couples may have no issue but me personally, I would just find it weird if my misses went for a drink with a single guy.  Saying that, if it was someone they knew well before I came along, that I think is a slightly different story.

The main issue is the honesty.  As King said, keeping it a secret is the true underlying issue.

[Nekov]

There's a lot that has been said already and I don't know if I'm adding anything new, but here's my point of view.
I generally agree that there is nothing wring with you having female friends who are single. As Stads said, you can have a purely platonic relationship. I know that's the case for me. In this case however, you know this other girl is looking for a rebound guy and has been flirting with you. The fact that you don't intend to do anything with her does not take away from the fact that she does have some other intention and there are two distinct scenarios that can happen:
1. She starts flirting, you stay true to your intention of not cheating and the situation becomes awkward enough that your friendship ends up being ruined
2. She starts flirting, you can't resist the temptation and you end up cheating on your girlfriend which will clearly end up affecting you.
I'd follow the advise given above. Either cancel the meeting and tell her that you're not comfortable with the situation because you have a GF or make sure there's other people there, single males preferably who can take the bullet for you 

As far as being a bad person, I'll quote Lonestar because he is a wise man

You're not a bad person btw... Just growing and learning.

[Stadler]

Fartknocker.  Uh-huh-huh-huh-huh-huh.

[Stadler]

4.  Of course your girlfriend will get upset if you tell her you are having drinks with a single girl around the same age.  Do you blame her?  If my misses said that to me about going for drinks with a single guy her age just as 'friends', I'd have the same response.  I would ask why she would even need to do that.  I get friends and all, but this seems quite different.

I found this very interesting. Are people that are in relationships only supposed to be friends with people that are not single? Is this the criteria by which to choose your friends once you have someone in your life?

I knew this point would get picked up and get this very response.

While no, it's not a criteria you have to live by if you are in a relationship.  I guess everyone is different and some couples may have no issue but me personally, I would just find it weird if my misses went for a drink with a single guy.  Saying that, if it was someone they knew well before I came along, that I think is a slightly different story.

The main issue is the honesty.  As King said, keeping it a secret is the true underlying issue.

I think I answered this too, and it all boils back to honesty: with yourself and with your partner.  It's not YOUR standard you have to worry about, it's your partner's, and if you don't like your partner's standard you have two choices: deal with it and honor it, or tell him/her to pound sand.    With my ex-wife, all that Count wrote would be verboten. I would have had a shit-storm had it come to light (even if I told her in advance; I had two female friends from the Genesis forum with whom I traded tapes - never met them IRL - and to this day my ex calls me a "cheater".  For more or less trading Genesis live shows.  That's in part why she's my ex.)   My current wife would tolerate it, but I know inside she would be insecure and not thrilled.  I act accordingly.  The few times I do go out with females, I'm very clear about it, and upfront.  And as I'm typing, I'm thinking that I've never actually gone out one-on-one with a female - single or otherwise - while in my current marriage, and I probably won't.  It's not worth it to me to cast that doubt.

[ErHaO]

I am not sure what my definition of a bad person would be, but I don't think this makes you a bad person perse. However, this is, in my view, is a bad action without a doubt. Even in absence of physical cheating. You really have to ask yourself why you are going on what is obviously a rebound date for that woman. And the fact that you don't tell your girlfriend already shows you know it is a bad action, at least in her view. But I don't think anyone would be comfortable with their significant other going on secret dates with someone that is flirting with them, rightfully so I'd say.

[Adami]

I think the two issues, from my POV are 1) the secrecy and 2) her expectations.

I wouldn’t have any issues with anyone in a couple hanging out with someone from the attracted sex. If your partner doesn’t trust you or vice versa, that’s an issue to work out, not placate. Always be honest and make sure you’re clear, crystal clear, with the boundaries with new lady.

My two best friends are girls and my girlfriend doesn’t care anymore. She did at the beginning when there were some insecurities but we have trust. If she wanted to hang out with guys, that’s fine. I trust her completely. If she finds someone better than me, that would suck but i wouldn’t want her staying with me simply because I’m keeping her away from something better.

[King Postwhore]

And to add Adami that is a natural instinct, jealousy.  It's managing that feeling and trusting your partner.  The 1st step if trusting is being honest.  Telling your significant other of the situation. 

[Stadler]

I think the two issues, from my POV are 1) the secrecy and 2) her expectations.

I wouldn’t have any issues with anyone in a couple hanging out with someone from the attracted sex. If your partner doesn’t trust you or vice versa, that’s an issue to work out, not placate. Always be honest and make sure you’re clear, crystal clear, with the boundaries with new lady.

My two best friends are girls and my girlfriend doesn’t care anymore. She did at the beginning when there were some insecurities but we have trust. If she wanted to hang out with guys, that’s fine. I trust her completely. If she finds someone better than me, that would suck but i wouldn’t want her staying with me simply because I’m keeping her away from something better.

That last sentence is a delicate one.  I feel that way as well.  It's not easy, but it's how i resolve some conflicts in my personality.   But after a point, that isn't absolute.  Maybe it's different for me, because I'm married and there are kids involved, but it's not as simple as "eh, I think so-and-so is better, I'm going to give that a flier!"   That can happen when dating, because worst case scenario, you can always get back together.   For me, if my wife now said "I think I'm better with Mark", I don't know that there's coming back from that.

[TAC]

She’s better with a one that doesn’t have Genesis bootlegs.

[Stadler]

She’s better with a one that doesn’t have Genesis bootlegs.

I keep telling her that! 

[hunnus2000]

Mmmm, the "whether I'm cheating on my girlfriend"-question isn't the most interesting part of this conversation, because you aren't (though I would advise you to try and make sure you can openly have a female friend and make plans with her without your GF seeing it as some sort of red flag). This girl knows you have a GF, and is still, uh, openly thirsting for you and flirting. She may already think you accepted the flirtation but even if she figures out you were just oblivious, things might get really awkward at work with her. I would advise you to unalign those schedules if they do align, just in case, so you guys don't have to look at each other and go "uhm. so." every couple of minutes.

My wife and I determined that a long time ago that anything you can't divulge to your significant other, is a form of cheating. The only form of cheating or lying that is acceptable between a couple is when they ask - "Do these jeans make my ass look fat"?  The only acceptable answer is NO and that's not lying, that's self preservation! 

[jingle.boy]

My wife and I determined that a long time ago that anything you can't divulge to your significant other, is a form of cheating. The only form of cheating or lying that is acceptable between a couple is when they ask - "Do these jeans make my ass look fat"?  The only acceptable answer is NO and that's not lying, that's self preservation! 

Well there are some other answers that are acceptable, but I'll assure everyone of this, "Where?" is definitely NOT an acceptable response.

[Nekov]

My wife and I determined that a long time ago that anything you can't divulge to your significant other, is a form of cheating. The only form of cheating or lying that is acceptable between a couple is when they ask - "Do these jeans make my ass look fat"?  The only acceptable answer is NO and that's not lying, that's self preservation! 

Well there are some other answers that are acceptable, but I'll assure everyone of this, "Where?" is definitely NOT an acceptable response.

That's just asking for trouble 

[King Postwhore]

We've all had that landmine right there in front of us.  It's like women want to talk us onto the pressure trigger. 

[Harmony]

Interesting thread/discussion.  To the OP, I think the fact you are asking if you are a bad person - for the record, I don't see "bad person" but I do see "human" - means you are struggling internally with making the right decision and just the fact that you are struggling means you already have your answer.  Frankly, I'd be more worried if you understood the dilemma and thought, "Fuck it, I'm going to do what I want."

hunnus2000 brings up an interesting thing.  "Anything you can't divulge to your SO is a form of cheating."

I want to take this out of context and explore this a bit further.  I get you, hunnus, were setting up the joke about your SO's ass, so this isn't directed at you at all.  But I know people who believe that sentence above 100%....meaning they share EVERYTHING and leave out NOTHING.  I think in my younger days I may have...when dating and romance and relationships were new and exhilarating and thinking about the long haul of what it means to be a lifetime partner.  But with the hindsight of aging, I just don't think it holds up.  And maybe this comes down more on an individual style and how we relate to others but frankly, I don't WANT to know EVERYTHING.  Important stuff - yes.  But EVERYTHING?  No. 

Do I want to know my spouse finds his coworkers breasts distracting?  No.  If he acts on that thought or thinks he might, yes.

Do I want to know if my spouse lost his cool with his brother about a mulligan on the golf course and they aren't speaking?  No.  If he's struggling with how to mend fences and wants some advice or some support?  Yes

Do I want to know if my spouse cleaned up a stain on our new carpet because my son dropped a cherry and left it there overnight and he wanted to prevent a meltdown (on my part)?  No.  If I see it anyway and want to know how the hell it happened and ask a direct question?  Yes.

And there are plenty of things I keep from my spouse.  Not earth-shattering things - not relationship breaker things.  But many things that he a) probably doesn't really give a shit about or b) would only add to the jumble of things he's already dealing with and aren't really important to him.

So for those of you in longer term relationships, how do you feel about sharing everything?  Have you and your SO had conversations about this?

I know at one point around finances me and my spouse had talked about it being fine to spend on whatever but anything over $500 had to be discussed ahead of time.  We have always been pretty good about talking about money though, so we have trust there.  But I know for a lot of couples money is a hot button issue.  Sex is too.  If one of you has a higher or lower sex drive are you sharing all of that - EVERYTHING - with your SO or are you just dropping hints and/or avoiding conversations around it?

[Edit to add] The correct response to the question, "Do these pants make my ass look big?" is ALWAYS "Oh hun, I love your ass in anything, you know that."   

[Nekov]

We've all had that landmine right there in front of us.  It's like women want to talk us onto the pressure trigger. 

My default answer is "That looks good on you", no matter what the question is. Unless I think the piece of clothing itself is ugly in which case I'll say so.

[TAC]

I always tell The Lovely Mrs TAC that the next time we're out, I'll show you a fat ass.
So usually when we are out, and we're behind someone with a huge ass, I'll get my wife's attention and glance down at the fat ass, and give my wife the look.

[LudwigVan]

I’m at the point in my marriage where if we’re walking down the street together and I spot a looker, I’ll give my wife’s hand a squeeze and say out loud, “Wow. THAT’S a good-looking woman.” And she’ll either nod in agreement or scoff at my poor taste.

[TAC]

I’m at the point in my marriage where if we’re walking down the street together and I spot a looker, I’ll give my wife’s hand a squeeze and say out loud, “Wow. THAT’S a good-looking woman.” And she’ll either nod in agreement or scoff at my poor taste.

I'm at a point in my marriage where that would not be a wise thing to say. Not ever.

[LudwigVan]

I’m at the point in my marriage where if we’re walking down the street together and I spot a looker, I’ll give my wife’s hand a squeeze and say out loud, “Wow. THAT’S a good-looking woman.” And she’ll either nod in agreement or scoff at my poor taste.

I'm at a point in my marriage where that would not be a wise thing to say. Not ever.

  yeah I guess I AM a bad person.