Author Topic: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto  (Read 8337 times)

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Online TheHoveringSojourn808

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #105 on: April 10, 2024, 12:18:01 PM »
50 Shades of LotR :zydar:

lmao I am glad someone caught it :)
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #106 on: April 11, 2024, 07:12:16 AM »
I've thought of this too because it's in character for him. He went out to tour after his food poisoning and sang very demanding shows ever since no matter the condition of his voice, so of course he would go out now too. It's probably just another day on the job for him. I don't really like that he's like that, but he's not gonna change at almost 60 I guess!

He'll be 61 next month.

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #107 on: April 11, 2024, 08:44:30 AM »
He'll be 61 next month.

61 years young
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Offline crystalstars17

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #108 on: April 11, 2024, 10:51:10 AM »

Offline DAYAFTERDAY

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #109 on: April 11, 2024, 02:15:42 PM »
Haven’t seen this talked about anywhere but this King Crimson cover featuring James seems to have been released today:

https://youtu.be/7ytm8HQ3CtA?si=cucs4zfn9WmxtNhq

James sounds good, very comfortable range for him to sing in.

Offline Mladen

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #110 on: April 11, 2024, 02:33:27 PM »
At this point, we can make a compilation of classic prog covers that feature James on vocals. Didn't he do A Pillow of winds by Pink Floyd just a while back? He also sang on several Rush covers over the years, I think. That would make for a damn good compilation.  :tup

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #111 on: April 11, 2024, 02:38:07 PM »
Haven’t seen this talked about anywhere but this King Crimson cover featuring James seems to have been released today:

https://youtu.be/7ytm8HQ3CtA?si=cucs4zfn9WmxtNhq

James sounds good, very comfortable range for him to sing in.
Forgot about this.  Yes, I heard it this morning.  Not bad.
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Offline Skeever

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #112 on: April 11, 2024, 03:00:01 PM »
Haven’t seen this talked about anywhere but this King Crimson cover featuring James seems to have been released today:

https://youtu.be/7ytm8HQ3CtA?si=cucs4zfn9WmxtNhq

James sounds good, very comfortable range for him to sing in.

It sounds AI generated

Offline Samsara

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #113 on: April 11, 2024, 03:09:09 PM »
My .02.

I read (and watched) the OP, and some of the commentary that followed.

The bottom line for me as a fan is this:

I highly respect JLB. And I feel he always gives a great performance on the studio albums. But live, he has ALWAYS been spotty. ALWAYS. I have seen Dream Theater more than most, but less than a lot of the hardcore fans here (16 times from 1998-present). It's always the discussion between my wife and friends - will we get the consistent JLB tonight, or the spotty one?

On the Distance Over Time tour, we got the really good James in San Francisco. I enjoyed it a lot. That followed the very spotty and cringey 2017 IAWAB show in Oakland. Then I went to Oakland for the AVFTTOTW tour. And he wasn't that good. The effort is there while performing. He's not mailing it in. But clearly, whatever approach he's taken to his live singing needs work. And I really think those who deny that are being silly. JLB struggles live, very much so now. And hopefully, he's working with someone now to help him sing more consistently.

Certainly, "the voice" is still there. He can hit and hold notes at home, in the studio, etc. But singing live, the travel, it's all very different for different people. For my money, before the MP reunion, I decided that I was done seeing Dream Theater because I was unsatisfied with the live vocals for the amount of money we now pay. I've seen DT 16 times, do I really need to see more? I wanted to retain some of the memories from the shows JLB was singing well. But now, with MP back, I'm fully on board to go again. But as a fan, I really want to see JLB, the sunset years of DT, be more consistent live. And I think he can.

I think part of it is working with different people, and finding a strategy that he's comfortable with and works. I think another part of it is flattening some things (as Ray Alder did with Fates Warning), and not going up so high to sing things. I also think the band needs to do him a favor. I don't know what tuning they are in, but guess it is standard. I hate when bands drop a full step, as it sounds like mud. But a half-step has to make some sort of difference. Experiment with dropping the 90s stuff a half step. See what still sounds good, and what doesn't. Whatever sounds good, play that. Whatever doesn't, don't play it anymore. Even if it is "Pull Me Under." Or, simply re-arrange stuff and do it differently. Whatever makes the entirety of the performance the most consistent.

The human voice is so very unlike any other physical instrument. I fully support JLB, and root for him. But I also would like to see both he and the band really work hard with and for each other, to make the vocals more consistent, and...also make sure they are very live. If that means MP and JP singing a lot more harmony, work on it.

At the end of the day, as long as the effort is there to make the live show, particularly the vocals, consistent, and we see that effort, I'll support JLB. He deserves that. He IS the voice of DT.
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Online TheHoveringSojourn808

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #114 on: April 11, 2024, 04:25:27 PM »
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #115 on: April 11, 2024, 04:32:52 PM »
My .02.

They did downtune all of IAW + ACOS a half step for the 2017 tour, and that didn't help too much either...

Without trying to keep beating on the dead horse, there seems to be some pretty big technique issues with his singing nowadays that have nothing to do with the high vocal melodies on some songs. He's been very inconsistent and out of tune across his whole singing range. As some have said, there is some stuff he/the band can do to help fix those problems but it doesn't seem to be a priority for them. The 2022 tour was very bad in terms of his vocal delivery and we even had the whole Bridges "playback" section debacle. What ended up happening? They went on tour again immediately in 2023 with the same and even worse problems in the vocal department. They only started downtuning PMU a half step again almost towards the end of the tour run last year. It seems, to me, like they don't take that aspect of the live show too seriously to do something real about it.
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Offline Skeever

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #116 on: April 11, 2024, 07:45:18 PM »
^Yup

I have been a fan of this band since 2002, and I do not remember a time where James was not getting a share of criticisms. And I have always been a big defender of him. He didn't always have the power, or the timber of his youth. But what I heard on dreamsonic was something new, he just wasn't on key. Even on stuff that should have been writing his pocket these days. It was bizarre and worrisome.

Offline JeopardousRaven

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #117 on: April 12, 2024, 01:01:45 AM »
I think part of it is working with different people, and finding a strategy that he's comfortable with and works. I think another part of it is flattening some things (as Ray Alder did with Fates Warning), and not going up so high to sing things. I also think the band needs to do him a favor. I don't know what tuning they are in, but guess it is standard. I hate when bands drop a full step, as it sounds like mud. But a half-step has to make some sort of difference. Experiment with dropping the 90s stuff a half step. See what still sounds good, and what doesn't. Whatever sounds good, play that. Whatever doesn't, don't play it anymore. Even if it is "Pull Me Under." Or, simply re-arrange stuff and do it differently. Whatever makes the entirety of the performance the most consistent.

You put my thoughts into words here. I 100% believe that the solution is to take the time (BEFORE TOURING!!!!!!!!!!) to carefully choose each song to be played, have JLB sing it in the studio, and re-tool the vocal melodies to help him out. They finally did that for PMU during the "Watch the sparrow falling" section and JLB sounds so good. https://youtu.be/mGLoxY7PbEc?si=O9EAXuBHrYu3e13u&t=164

It just sounds bad when he tries to wing it on stage. There's no shame in getting older, but at a certain point you have to realize that you can't take the same approach at 60 that you took when you were 30.

Offline MrBoom_shack-a-lack

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #118 on: April 12, 2024, 03:31:01 AM »
I always loved James lower and calmer register. Alot of his performances outside of DT were he often sings more comfortably, he sounds amazing.

The last DT tour I saw was the astonising and honestly he ruined the concert for me. He sounded complety atrocious at times. Especially trying to sing the older songs. The band was killer though and MM at that time stole the show for me.

This is just a fact for me and not something debatable from my point of view. Of course there's reasons for it but that dosen't change the fact.

Is he better nowdays, I don't know since I haven't heard them live since then. That show left a mark on me so I haven't been bothered seeing them again.

I'll probably watch them on the next tour since of course i'm excited for what they're cooking.
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Offline YngVai

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #119 on: April 12, 2024, 07:41:20 AM »
I missed them live for almost all of the 2010s, so I can't speak to the TA tour, but I thought he sounded really strong in 2019. I didn't think he was bad at the Chicago show of the View tour. He was kind of suffocated by all the guitar, but I thought he sounded reasonably good when he did poke through the mix. 6:00 seemed tough on him, but I anticipated that as soon as that drum fill hit, haha.

Offline Metro

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #120 on: April 12, 2024, 07:58:31 AM »
I'm sure their focus is on the new album at the moment, as it should be, but they have plenty of time between now and the first show in October. Hopefully they find some time to go through the back catalog and determine which songs he'll have no issue with live, which songs need to be tweaked by tuning it down or altering the melodies, and which ones are completely out of the question,. There's no excuse not to at this point, otherwise it'll just be a repeat of the last tour.

Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #121 on: April 12, 2024, 02:59:42 PM »
Just thinking out loud here but wasn't there a really rough point for him 20 or so years ago (well after the food poisoning incident) but then it got better and was fine for a while? What caused his performance to improve back then? This was when MP was in the band and since people say Score is a good performance maybe by that time he had already improved.

Online Trav86

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #122 on: April 12, 2024, 05:58:38 PM »
Just thinking out loud here but wasn't there a really rough point for him 20 or so years ago (well after the food poisoning incident) but then it got better and was fine for a while? What caused his performance to improve back then? This was when MP was in the band and since people say Score is a good performance maybe by that time he had already improved.

The FII tour was usually pretty rough. Metropolis 2000 tour was hit or miss. Everything I’ve heard after that was gradually better and better until around 2015.
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Offline Skeever

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #123 on: April 12, 2024, 06:28:48 PM »
I think you might be right.

Same label as this https://www.guitarworld.com/news/junior-wells-ai-single-2023

Assuming this isn't some kind of scam... I wonder why James would allow his voice to be used in AI like that.
Hopefully not to pay off his studio burger lunch bill!

Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #124 on: April 13, 2024, 03:43:02 AM »
He doesn't have to allow anything. It keeps happening to other big artists - not just that AI versions of songs get uploaded to youtube, but to Spotify too - it must be in a legal gray area of some sort.

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Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #125 on: April 13, 2024, 05:19:58 AM »
The FII tour was usually pretty rough. Metropolis 2000 tour was hit or miss. Everything I’ve heard after that was gradually better and better until around 2015.

I thought ADTOE was fine. Along for the Ride tour was hit or miss so I agree with your timetable. But I do wonder what all of a sudden made it go from rough to better after Metropolis? Whatever he did back then to fix the issue he should do now if he can.

Offline DAYAFTERDAY

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #126 on: April 13, 2024, 07:59:31 AM »
I thought ADTOE was fine. Along for the Ride tour was hit or miss so I agree with your timetable. But I do wonder what all of a sudden made it go from rough to better after Metropolis? Whatever he did back then to fix the issue he should do now if he can.

He sounded fantastic during the 2011/2012 era, probably his best since '06. The problem now is his current rough patch (any clip i've seen from '22/23) is leagues below any rough patch he's had before. I'd be over the moon if he found even his Wacken 2015 voice back for the next tour, and I know that performance gets slated a lot.

Offline TheBarstoolWarrior

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #127 on: April 13, 2024, 05:12:44 PM »
He sounded fantastic during the 2011/2012 era, probably his best since '06. The problem now is his current rough patch (any clip i've seen from '22/23) is leagues below any rough patch he's had before. I'd be over the moon if he found even his Wacken 2015 voice back for the next tour, and I know that performance gets slated a lot.

Yeah, Wacken was pretty tough. The show I saw on that tour was mostly fine but you can tell things were starting to become more uneven.

Offline HOF

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #128 on: April 13, 2024, 08:32:12 PM »
Assuming this isn't some kind of scam... I wonder why James would allow his voice to be used in AI like that.
Hopefully not to pay off his studio burger lunch bill!

Pretty sure this is a real thing.

https://bravewords.com/news/king-crimson-members-share-new-studio-recording-of-the-crimson-classic-i-talk-to-the-wind-audio

Offline Skeever

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #129 on: April 14, 2024, 04:07:27 PM »
Pretty sure this is a real thing.

https://bravewords.com/news/king-crimson-members-share-new-studio-recording-of-the-crimson-classic-i-talk-to-the-wind-audio

The article still seems like boilerplate to me. No comment or any additional detail other than saying that the thing exists. King crimson's official accounts saying nothing about it. None of the accounts of the people presumably involved say anything about it. And if you click around the record labels page, there's a lot of really suspicious stuff on there.

Offline HOF

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #130 on: April 14, 2024, 07:45:00 PM »
The article still seems like boilerplate to me. No comment or any additional detail other than saying that the thing exists. King crimson's official accounts saying nothing about it. None of the accounts of the people presumably involved say anything about it. And if you click around the record labels page, there's a lot of really suspicious stuff on there.

Todd Rundgren did share it on his Facebook page. He seems to be associated with the label in some way.

https://www.facebook.com/100044148833678/posts/pfbid025oVpSLAz2uWQ3F8GhcDCZD65M8aZtBvDNkwEWmaSK6VpYDBUWp9xQJgsNvzAr4Sgl/?app=fbl

Online TheHoveringSojourn808

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #131 on: April 15, 2024, 07:47:19 AM »
It could be "real" in the sense that it was legally made with permissions etc., but also an AI generation of JLB's voice (and others playing)
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Offline crystalstars17

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #133 on: April 19, 2024, 05:30:04 AM »
Yuck! Whether AI or not, even his pretty voice couldn't save that horrid song. I closed it out halfway through because it was dreadfully repetitive, depressing and ultimately unlistenable. I've never listened to King Crimson before and now I never will.

If he did cover it, then why on God's green earth could he not pick something better? Is this sadly the direction he's going in, where he needs repertoire that's so boring and monotonous that it has only a five note range? :\  I really hope this is not reflective of the melodies being written for him right now.

Offline efx

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #134 on: April 19, 2024, 05:37:07 AM »
We all like what we like but this is a certfiable classic song from a classic album that many people would argue was the start of the whole prog moment. I'd assume if it's real that James probably digs it, he's part of that generation that grew up on this album.
But I have my doubts this isn't real considering there's no real promotion surrounding it.

Offline SeRoX

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #135 on: April 19, 2024, 05:53:17 AM »
Yuck! Whether AI or not, even his pretty voice couldn't save that horrid song. I closed it out halfway through because it was dreadfully repetitive, depressing and ultimately unlistenable. I've never listened to King Crimson before and now I never will.

If he did cover it, then why on God's green earth could he not pick something better? Is this sadly the direction he's going in, where he needs repertoire that's so boring and monotonous that it has only a five note range? :\  I really hope this is not reflective of the melodies being written for him right now.

I agree that this is one of worst KC's song. Don't know if James pick it or not but there are better songs to fit James on that album. But I advice you to listen Epitaph from KC. One of the greatest of prog gen.
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Offline crystalstars17

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #136 on: April 19, 2024, 06:07:44 AM »
I'm sorry but respectfully after even half of that song I don't think I could stomach anything from them. Admittedly though I don't truly identify as first and foremost a prog fan (there, I said it) and DT is really the anomaly on my list of favorite bands (of my top five, three are power metal). So it's really just me being subjective.

But that said, I loved his Led Zeppelin covers, so if he wants to do covers of old classics why not more things like that? At least they show his range and sensitivity, even as his voice is currently, without being so insufferably pedantic. The real problem would be if boring melodies are all he can sing anymore.

Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #137 on: April 19, 2024, 07:40:06 AM »
That seems to be somebody else's project, so he wouldn't be in charge of picking songs himself.

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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #138 on: April 19, 2024, 09:08:14 AM »
If he did cover it, then why on God's green earth could he not pick something better?
Probably because HE likes it.

I mean, I like it too.  No accounting for taste, I guess.
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Offline HOF

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Re: In Defense of James LaBrie: A Manifesto
« Reply #139 on: April 19, 2024, 09:29:25 AM »
Yuck! Whether AI or not, even his pretty voice couldn't save that horrid song. I closed it out halfway through because it was dreadfully repetitive, depressing and ultimately unlistenable. I've never listened to King Crimson before and now I never will.

If he did cover it, then why on God's green earth could he not pick something better? Is this sadly the direction he's going in, where he needs repertoire that's so boring and monotonous that it has only a five note range? :\  I really hope this is not reflective of the melodies being written for him right now.

FWIW, I think In the Court of the Crimson King is one of their weakest albums. Though they never get to what I would call cheery (and repetitiveness is kind of a major theme for them).