Author Topic: All Star Trek Discussion Thread ("Into Darkness" trailer released) (Read 431434 times)

yorost · « **Reply #1890 on:** August 28, 2012, 01:20:20 PM »

The mention of Romulan Ale?

I get similarities between the two, but I don't think it was a blatant rip off. Some things are just plot devices you see all over sci-fi, i.e. dying character having mind saved or natural settings to disable technology.

El Barto · « **Reply #1891 on:** August 28, 2012, 01:21:44 PM »

Quote from: Kotowboy on August 28, 2012, 12:45:53 PM

Lets list the problems with Nemesis here !!!

1. How about - having an action director who knew nothing about Trek at all ? Great !!

Like JJ Abrams?

jammindude · « **Reply #1892 on:** August 28, 2012, 01:25:41 PM »

There was SO MUCH wrong with Nemesis, I don't even know where to begin. It wasn't even a mildly intriguing villain.

The shorter list would be what was right about Nemesis...and to be honest, I can't think of a one. I honestly never thought a ST movie could be *THAT BAD*... The Phantom Menace had more positive things than Nemesis did.

It's the only ST film that I would place *below* the Star Wars prequels. It's THAT BAD.

Kotowboy · « **Reply #1893 on:** August 28, 2012, 01:27:13 PM »

Quote from: El Barto on August 28, 2012, 01:21:44 PM

Quote from: Kotowboy on August 28, 2012, 12:45:53 PM
Lets list the problems with Nemesis here !!!

1. How about - having an action director who knew nothing about Trek at all ? Great !!
Like JJ Abrams?

No. JJ is a renowned trek fan. He's hardly an out and out action director like Michael Bay or Stuart Baird.

Kotowboy · « **Reply #1894 on:** August 28, 2012, 01:28:09 PM »

Quote from: jammindude on August 28, 2012, 01:25:41 PM

There was SO MUCH wrong with Nemesis, I don't even know where to begin. It wasn't even a mildly intriguing villain.

The shorter list would be what was right about Nemesis...and to be honest, I can't think of a one. I honestly never thought a ST movie could be *THAT BAD*... The Phantom Menace had more positive things than Nemesis did.

It's the only ST film that I would place *below* the Star Wars prequels. It's THAT BAD.

I enjoyed it in the cinema though and I still think Final Frontier is worse.

Orbert · « **Reply #1895 on:** August 28, 2012, 01:30:06 PM »

Was Nemesis the one where Data was destroyed, but only after he happened to have made a backup of himself? And there just happened to be another chassis around (I think it was named "B4" but I may be mistaken) which somehow didn't work properly or something? I don't remember all the details since I only saw it once and haven't bothered with it since. But it seemed pretty obvious to me that they were going to "resurrect" Data by loading Data's backup into it.

Which is pretty much what they did with Spock in the TOS movies. His Khatra in McCoy was his "backup" and they ended up reloading it into Spock's regenerated body. Also Data was essentially TNG's Spock character, so yeah, lots of parallels.

yorost · « **Reply #1896 on:** August 28, 2012, 01:30:35 PM »

Quote from: jammindude on August 28, 2012, 01:25:41 PM

There was SO MUCH wrong with Nemesis, I don't even know where to begin. It wasn't even a mildly intriguing villain.

The shorter list would be what was right about Nemesis...and to be honest, I can't think of a one. I honestly never thought a ST movie could be *THAT BAD*... The Phantom Menace had more positive things than Nemesis did.

It's the only ST film that I would place *below* the Star Wars prequels. It's THAT BAD.

Funny, I agree with Nemesis being bad, but each time I saw it I left feeling like it should have been good. I don't know, to me it feels like a movie that at one time was good but went horribly wrong at some point.

I also think Final Frontier is worse, and maybe even a couple of others challenge Nemesis. Star Trek isn't exactly stocked with great movies.

Kotowboy · « **Reply #1897 on:** August 28, 2012, 01:32:40 PM »

I remember seeing the first trailer for it and it looked totally amazing like First Contact. Really dark and with great action.

yorost · « **Reply #1898 on:** August 28, 2012, 01:33:52 PM »

No kidding, Nemesis was probably the most hyped I ever got over a Star Trek movie.

Kotowboy · « **Reply #1899 on:** August 28, 2012, 01:43:03 PM »

Great Star Trek Movies :

Star Trek ( love it )
Wrath Of Khan
Voyage Home
Undiscovered Country
First Contact

Good Star Trek Movies :

The Motion Picture - it's slow but it's got a good story.
Insurrection
Generations ( I loved it )

Meh Movies :

Search For Spock
Final Frontier
Nemesis

So about 8 pretty good movies to 3 poor ones.

Compared to Star Wars - 3 pretty good movies and 3 dreadful ones.

yorost · « **Reply #1900 on:** August 28, 2012, 01:46:55 PM »

Quote from: Kotowboy on August 28, 2012, 01:43:03 PM

Good Star Trek Movies :

Generations ( I loved it )

I love Generations, too, kind of. I've probably said it in this thread already, but I think it's a great movie if you ignore the middle third or so.

Kotowboy · « **Reply #1901 on:** August 28, 2012, 01:50:04 PM »

I was probably about 15 when Generations came out and seeing it in the cinema was an absolute joy.

It was just so much grander than a TNG episode.

It had this great cinematic feel and the score was amazing.

One of my greatest cinema memories.

ZirconBlue · « **Reply #1902 on:** August 29, 2012, 07:08:39 AM »

Quote from: yorost on August 28, 2012, 01:46:55 PM

Quote from: Kotowboy on August 28, 2012, 01:43:03 PM
Good Star Trek Movies :

Generations ( I loved it )
I love Generations, too, kind of. I've probably said it in this thread already, but I think it's a great movie if you ignore the middle third or so.

The whole movie is basically one giant plot hole. Does ignoring the middle third fix that?

yorost · « **Reply #1903 on:** August 29, 2012, 07:55:53 AM »

Quote from: ZirconBlue on August 29, 2012, 07:08:39 AM

Quote from: yorost on August 28, 2012, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: Kotowboy on August 28, 2012, 01:43:03 PM
Good Star Trek Movies :

Generations ( I loved it )
I love Generations, too, kind of. I've probably said it in this thread already, but I think it's a great movie if you ignore the middle third or so.
The whole movie is basically one giant plot hole. Does ignoring the middle third fix that?

I just mean I love watching the beginning and end parts of the movie. I don't worry about it too much beyond that. Sometimes it's better for a story to ignore the problems than to try to explain them all away, especially so with anything involving manipulation of time.

El Barto · « **Reply #1904 on:** August 29, 2012, 09:44:14 AM »

Wrapping up Voyager today. Nothing left but Endgame, which I'll wait to watch until I have time. Overall, pleasantly surprised. For the most part very good television. Even the last season, which was generally weaker than the rest, was still pretty good.

One of the things I remembered as a low point was the whole Chakotay/Seven thing. It would appear that's never in play until Endgame. Thank God for that. I had associated it with the horrible, stupid, fucking Worf fucking Troi bullshit.

I'll start Enterprise here pretty soon. Hopefully, like Voyager, it far exceed my expectations. Gotta say, rewatching these franchises has changed quite a few of my opinions.

In a perfect world, somebody would have uploaded all of Enterprise with that horrible opening song edited out of each episode.

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #1905 on:** August 29, 2012, 09:54:08 AM »

This probably doesn't even need to be said, but really go into Enterprise with zero expectations.
The first two seasons are pretty dull and derivative, and watchable at best. S3 and 4 are where everyone agrees it improved, although I personally find S4 to be fanwank that pillages all it can from previous series, especially TOS, and shoehorns them in really poorly. S3 is the highlight of the series for me.
While I didn't hate Enterprise like many people, it's still easily the worst series.

Kotowboy · « **Reply #1906 on:** August 29, 2012, 05:35:05 PM »

Quote from: ZirconBlue on August 29, 2012, 07:08:39 AM

Quote from: yorost on August 28, 2012, 01:46:55 PM
Quote from: Kotowboy on August 28, 2012, 01:43:03 PM
Good Star Trek Movies :

Generations ( I loved it )
I love Generations, too, kind of. I've probably said it in this thread already, but I think it's a great movie if you ignore the middle third or so.

The whole movie is basically one giant plot hole. Does ignoring the middle third fix that?

If I was Picard in the Nexus _ i'd have at least stayed in the Nexus and had some fun before leaving. And even then I wouldn't go back to Veridian iii - i'd maybe go back to some point way before that and just stop him when it was really easy.

Although - how do we know that the Veridian iii Picard and Kirk go back to is not just an alternate reality ?

I like to think that Soran and Kirk are still in the Nexus being happy.

But i'm just a mushy kinda guy

yorost · « **Reply #1907 on:** August 29, 2012, 07:02:05 PM »

My favourite with Generations is the sun missile. Soran went to a lot of trouble hiding it's awfully powerful warp drive. ...not to mention if it did go to warp the franchise has established that as a high risk proposition.

edit: Basically, that whole moment goes down visually so wrong that you have to ignore it. Star Trek isn't trying to be hard sci-fi. The scene was clearly done for cinematic effect so it's easy to shrug off. Trying to visualize to audiences how the missile strike and subsequent star's collapse actually would have looked on Veridian III would have done nothing but distract from the movie. Most of the audience probably isn't worried about the realities of the speed of light. Heck, trying to visualize it realistically might even send half the audience claiming they did a bogus job, I remember tons of people exiting Nemesis lampooning the script writers for saying RNA, i.e. there is no such thing as RNA, it's DNA.

MajorMatt · « **Reply #1908 on:** August 29, 2012, 09:41:22 PM »

Watching so much DS9 lately, fuck me for saying it was shit earlier. Think I have a mild crush on Jadzia and maybe Major Kira lol

El Barto · « **Reply #1909 on:** September 04, 2012, 02:20:53 PM »

I'm most of the way through season 1 of Enterprise. It's not bad, it's just rarely good. For all of it's faults, TNG was never boring. Stupid at times, but usually entertaining enough. Often, Enterprise is just plain dull. One of the biggest contributors to that is T'Pol. She really needed to lighten up a little. Instead, she's just the ice queen. Spock certainly had the cold, logical Vulcan thing down pat, but you also got a sense that he actually liked the people he worked with. With T'Pol, bitterly annoyed (as opposed to seething hatred) is about the best you can hope for.

jammindude · « **Reply #1910 on:** September 04, 2012, 02:33:32 PM »

GREAT Star Trek movies:

Wrath of Khan
The Voyage Home
The Undiscovered Country
First Contact
Insurrection
Star Trek

Good Star Trek movies:

The Motion Picture
The Search for Spock
The Final Frontier (it was the worst at the time, but it's grown on me. "What does God need with a starship?")
Generations

F*(&^ING TERRIBLE Star Trek movies:

Nemesis

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #1911 on:** September 05, 2012, 12:45:17 AM »

Quote from: El Barto on September 04, 2012, 02:20:53 PM

I'm most of the way through season 1 of Enterprise. It's not bad, it's just rarely good. For all of it's faults, TNG was never boring. Stupid at times, but usually entertaining enough. Often, Enterprise is just plain dull. One of the biggest contributors to that is T'Pol. She really needed to lighten up a little. Instead, she's just the ice queen. Spock certainly had the cold, logical Vulcan thing down pat, but you also got a sense that he actually liked the people he worked with. With T'Pol, bitterly annoyed (as opposed to seething hatred) is about the best you can hope for.

Spock had a subtle dry wit to him that made him such a breakout character, especially with his dynamic with McCoy/Kirk, and he was a fairly sociable guy for a Vulcan. Even Tuvok had some good one-liners with a subtle bitchy edge, and was a bit of a badass for a Vulcan, and even though he was pretty cold too, he had a good dynamic with other characters like Neelix.
Enterprise never had a very good dynamic between the characters, and T'Pol was a crummy Vulcan anyway. She always looked like she was on the verge of tears for some reason. I think most of the Vulcans on the show were pretty bad, actually.

Expect S2 to be along the same lines, maybe marginally better. S3 and S4 are very different, both to the first seasons, and to each other. I think you'll find S3 much better (although you may still find it pretty soft), and I suspect you may dislike S4 as much as I do, although it seems most fans consider it the best of the bunch.

El Barto · « **Reply #1912 on:** September 05, 2012, 08:05:58 AM »

I actually like the way they portray the Vulcans in general. They wouldn't have liked humans at first and we would have resented that. It's just T'Pol that's a problem, and mainly because they're relying on her to be a central character along with the other two.

My recollection is that while season 3 had a nifty story going, it was still at times quite dull. I didn't care much for the conclusion of the story arc, either. In fact, the one episode I remember as being better than most was one that didn't fit into the Xindi plot at all. Something about Archer deciding to mug Damar, leaving him with no warp drive. Star Trek was always best when dealing with matters of ethics. As long as they avoid getting too preachy, like TNG and the afterschool specials, they were always the best episodes, IMO. Haven't seen much of that thus far.

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #1913 on:** September 05, 2012, 08:13:17 AM »

Well that episode still was part of the Xindi plot, since they had to get their ship running in time to make the deadline, which is why the dilemma existed in the first place, otherwise they wouldn't have considered robbing the other ship. They can't have every episode right in the thick of it.

And why am I not the least bit surprised that you didn't like the conclusion of the story arc, or that you like the Vulcans in the show.

Kotowboy · « **Reply #1914 on:** September 05, 2012, 09:37:07 AM »

A couple of funny thoughts occured to me this week.

1. Nimoy is the only actor from the original pilot who ended up in TOS & he's in the most recent movie.
He's probably been in more Trek than any of the others if you count his appearance in that two-parter of TNG that he was in ( the name of which escapes me . . right now )

2.In Star trek ( 2009 ) - George Kirk saves his son from dying by sacrificing himself and Mrs kirk doesn't even call him Jams George Kirk

BURRRRN

yorost · « **Reply #1915 on:** September 05, 2012, 09:41:54 AM »

Quote from: Kotowboy on September 05, 2012, 09:37:07 AM

1. Nimoy is the only actor from the original pilot who ended up in TOS & he's in the most recent movie.
He's probably been in more Trek than any of the others if you count his appearance in that two-parter of TNG that he was in ( the name of which escapes me . . right now )

Majel Barrett

Kotowboy · « **Reply #1916 on:** September 05, 2012, 09:44:30 AM »

Ah but I meant from the bridge crew. Sorry. Shoulda clarified.

Yeah She is pretty much Star Trek

Too bad they couldn't use her voice on the new Star Trek movies.

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #1917 on:** September 05, 2012, 09:45:55 AM »

Quote from: Kotowboy on September 05, 2012, 09:37:07 AM

A couple of funny thoughts occured to me this week.

1. Nimoy is the only actor from the original pilot who ended up in TOS & he's in the most recent movie.
He's probably been in more Trek than any of the others if you count his appearance in that two-parter of TNG that he was in ( the name of which escapes me . . right now )

But TOS only did like 88 episodes, while every other series did 170 or so. And the movies are only the equivalent of 3 episodes or so each. Nimoy is certainly the longest spanning though, both in timeline and in real time. (oh yeah, Majel Barrett too)

Quote from: Kotowboy on September 05, 2012, 09:37:07 AM

2.In Star trek ( 2009 ) - George Kirk saves his son from dying by sacrificing himself and Mrs kirk doesn't even call him Jams George Kirk

BURRRRN

Especially after he said how terrible the name Tiberius is, just before dying for her. What a bitch.

yorost · « **Reply #1918 on:** September 05, 2012, 10:01:23 AM »

For live action bulk I think Michael Dorn must have it covered. At least 5 movies and 11 main cast seasons.

chknptpie · « **Reply #1919 on:** September 07, 2012, 11:55:06 AM »

Ha! Did anyone see today's google doodle?

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #1920 on:** September 07, 2012, 11:59:18 AM »

Quote from: chknptpie on September 07, 2012, 11:55:06 AM

Ha! Did anyone see today's google doodle?

I only just unblocked the Google homepage image after seeing it mentioned on the Star Trek FB page. And I also only just noticed it was interactive.
Anyone else notice the tribbles yet?

And they even copied the stupid soft focus effect that TOS always did on female close-ups.

chknptpie · « **Reply #1921 on:** September 07, 2012, 12:00:15 PM »

I think they did a very awesome job to pay homage.

Kotowboy · « **Reply #1922 on:** September 07, 2012, 12:03:17 PM »

Quote from: BlobVanDam on September 07, 2012, 11:59:18 AM

Quote from: chknptpie on September 07, 2012, 11:55:06 AM
Ha! Did anyone see today's google doodle?

I only just unblocked the Google homepage image after seeing it mentioned on the Star Trek FB page. And I also only just noticed it was interactive.
Anyone else notice the tribbles yet? And they even copied the stupid soft focus effect that TOS always did on female close-ups.

All tv and movies from that era did that soft focus close up though

It's f--in hilarious.

BlobVanDam · « **Reply #1923 on:** September 07, 2012, 12:05:30 PM »

Quote from: Kotowboy on September 07, 2012, 12:03:17 PM

Quote from: BlobVanDam on September 07, 2012, 11:59:18 AM
Quote from: chknptpie on September 07, 2012, 11:55:06 AM
Ha! Did anyone see today's google doodle?

I only just unblocked the Google homepage image after seeing it mentioned on the Star Trek FB page. And I also only just noticed it was interactive.
Anyone else notice the tribbles yet? And they even copied the stupid soft focus effect that TOS always did on female close-ups.

All tv and movies from that era did that soft focus close up though It's f--in hilarious.

Well I can't say I watch a lot of other TV that old, but it looks ridiculous how none of the close-ups remotely match the wide shots. Even the backgrounds randomly change.

Whoever made this Google homage obviously knew their stuff though.

yorost · « **Reply #1924 on:** September 07, 2012, 12:05:56 PM »

The red uniform letter doesn't do anything on the away mission but get hit with things. At least it didn't die.

News: The staff at DTF wish to remind you all that a firm grasp of the rules of Yahtzee can save your life and the lives of your loved ones. Be safe out there.

Author Topic: All Star Trek Discussion Thread ("Into Darkness" trailer released) (Read 431434 times)