All Star Trek Discussion Thread ("Into Darkness" trailer released)

[Dream Team]

I have some problems with Generations (mostly to do with the Nexus, which I agree creates too many plot-holes to count) but I thought it had terrific performances from all 3 leads (Shatner, Stewart, McDowell) and it was beautifully filmed in my opinion. The original premise of ST was never about showy sci-fi action and SE but was about humanistic stories set against the backdrop of space. In that regard, I think Generations is successful when you consider the emotions and experiences the characters went through (Kirk: death-life-death; Picard losing his nephew and willingly giving up "heaven").

[AndyDT]

Yes, I thought TNG really missed a McCoy character (apart from Pulaski maybe) for a humanistic angle.

[Orbert]

I thought Dr. Crusher was an interesting angle, at first.  The idea that she and Capt. Picard had a history had some potential, and obviously the idea was to not make it exactly like the Kirk-McCoy dynamic.  But it quickly became lame and boring.  Dr. Pulaski was a step in the right direction, overall a more interesting character, and I wish she'd stuck around.

I seem to recall that Gates McFadden (Crusher) had an issue with one of the producers or something, so she left the series.  After some investigation and fan outcry, the offending party was canned and she came back.

[BlobVanDam]

Crusher wasn't the most interesting character, but I hated Pulaski so much. She should have just stuck to being a blind telepath.

[Orbert]

What didn't you like about Dr. Pulaski?  She definitely came across as more abrasive and bitchy, especially after all the warm empathy of Dr. Crusher (which I thought was part of what made her so boring), but that was obviously the idea.  They went a different direction with it.

[BlobVanDam]

What didn't you like about Dr. Pulaski?  She definitely came across as more abrasive and bitchy, especially after all the warm empathy of Dr. Crusher (which I thought was part of what made her so boring), but that was obviously the idea.  They went a different direction with it.

Well it's been a while since I've seen most of season 2 (although I've seen a couple recently), but I just found she took too much joy in being a bitch for the sake of it, without having enough of a relationship with the characters to get away with it. I think that was one of the big differences to me between Pulaski and McCoy, who they were obviously trying to emulate.

I agree that Crusher's kindness made her a bit boring and perhaps pointless, but she was inoffensive enough, so I never had a problem with her.

[El Barto]

The Pulaski/Data dynamic made her a huge improvement over Crusher. 

[Orbert]

Yeah, I can see how Dr. Pulaski's no-nonsense bedside manner wouldn't work for a lot of people.  It didn't work for me at first, either.  Good point about how she hadn't really "earned" it -- I can imagine most patients leaving sick bay thinking "Damn, the new doctor's a real bitch."

But I liked her dynamic with Data, as El Barto pointed out.  He had to earn her respect, and he did.  (The question of whether or not he should have had to earn it in the first place is another matter.)  I specifically remember the issue of how his name is pronounced.

And she did the Klingon Tea Ceremony with Worf.  Yeah, it's poison; let's do it.  She was a ballsy lady.

[Kotowboy]

I have some problems with Generations (mostly to do with the Nexus, which I agree creates too many plot-holes to count) but I thought it had terrific performances from all 3 leads (Shatner, Stewart, McDowell) and it was beautifully filmed in my opinion. The original premise of ST was never about showy sci-fi action and SE but was about humanistic stories set against the backdrop of space. In that regard, I think Generations is successful when you consider the emotions and experiences the characters went through (Kirk: death-life-death; Picard losing his nephew and willingly giving up "heaven").

I  Generations. I just love how it "feels". The gorgeous music and the visuals and the epic scale of it all.

The nexus was awesome. i actually wished Soran got to stay in the Nexus as he only wanted to get back there. 

I imagined when Kirk and Picard came back to Veridian III, it was an alternate version and Soran was still in the nexus.

Of course you could argue that Picard and Kirk are still in the nexus and it just showed Picard what he wanted to see

[Mr. Beale]

I liked Pulaski, brought some much needed spice to the cast, even if the character initially comes off as a McCoy copy. Wish they had stayed with her actually.

[AndyDT]

Did they explain in one episdoe why she'd left. ISTR Wesley narrating it?

[Adami]

Did they explain in one episdoe why she'd left. ISTR Wesley narrating it?

Crusher? She left to teach.

[AndyDT]

No - Pulaski

[Orbert]

Dr. Crusher left the Enterprise to take a position at Star Fleet Medical.  When the behind-the-scenes crap was settled and Gates McFadden decided to come back, they retconned and mentioned that Dr. Crusher's sabbatical (or temporary assignment or whatever they called it) was ending and she was coming back.  They didn't address it specifically, but the idea was that she used her seniority and clout to get her position back, bumping Dr. Pulaski.  This basically echoed what happened behind the scenes.  Gates McFadden came back so they bumped Diana Muldaur.  It was a little easier to do because Diana Muldaur was never added to the regular cast; despite being in the entire season, she was always a "special guest star".

[El Barto]

According to Memory-Alpha,  it was Muldaur's decision to remain a special guest.  No explanation why.  Maybe she figured all along that this was how it would play out.

In retrospect,  like most people I thought at the time that I didn't like her and preferred Crusher.  Looking back,  I actually liked Pulaski a lot and would have been keen to see Crusher blown out of an airlock. 

[yorost]

Special guest star is a way to advertise oneself as available for other jobs.  David Ogden Stiers kept that status on The Dead Zone, despite being one of the main characters, for that reason.

[Dream Team]

According to Memory-Alpha,  it was Muldaur's decision to remain a special guest.  No explanation why.  Maybe she figured all along that this was how it would play out.

In retrospect,  like most people I thought at the time that I didn't like her and preferred Crusher.  Looking back,  I actually liked Pulaski a lot and would have been keen to see Crusher blown out of an airlock. 

Better yet, Wesley blown out of an airlock. Seriously, who else couldn't stand him?

[ReaperKK]

According to Memory-Alpha,  it was Muldaur's decision to remain a special guest.  No explanation why.  Maybe she figured all along that this was how it would play out.

In retrospect,  like most people I thought at the time that I didn't like her and preferred Crusher.  Looking back,  I actually liked Pulaski a lot and would have been keen to see Crusher blown out of an airlock. 

Better yet, Wesley blown out of an airlock. Seriously, who else couldn't stand him?

I hated Wesley. Picard should have booted his ass off the Enterprise.

[Orbert]

The idea of Wesley Crusher probably looked good on paper, at least to some.  It's the future, there's this whiz kid genius on board, the son of an officer and personal friend of the captain.  The problem was the casting.  Wil Wheaton did not have the demeanor to project a likeable geek.  He just came across as a spoiled kid you want to slap multiple times.  I've seen shows where the geek (and there can be only one) is great, everybody likes him, or at least respects him, and I've seen shows where you just want to thrash him soundly.  Wesley falls into the second category.  On the show itself, everybody liked him, which added to the confusion, because almost no fans did.

[El Barto]

I don't suppose my issue was with Wheaton, and to be fair he was put into a damned awkward situation.  What I disliked was that the Enterprise was some floating cross section of society, with all the families and children on-board.  That's not the Star Trek I want to watch on television.  Quite a stupid concept, frankly, and once they set that as a premise,  it made for 7 seasons of oft-shitty TV.  Wesley was pretty much the embodiment of that problem.  There's a joke that Kirk would have thrown him off the ship,  but in reality,  Kirk would have tossed his mother off the ship the moment McCoy filled out the crewman knocked up form. 

[Adami]

I don't suppose my issue was with Wheaton, and to be fair he was put into a damned awkward situation.  What I disliked was that the Enterprise was some floating cross section of society, with all the families and children on-board.  That's not the Star Trek I want to watch on television.  Quite a stupid concept, frankly, and once they set that as a premise,  it made for 7 seasons of oft-shitty TV.  Wesley was pretty much the embodiment of that problem.  There's a joke that Kirk would have thrown him off the ship,  but in reality,  Kirk would have tossed his mother off the ship the moment McCoy filled out the crewman knocked up form. 

I thought it added a new dynamic to the show. When it was all Starfleet on board, then the captain could see them as dying honorable deaths if worse came to worse. But when there's families on board, then Picard has to be extra considerate about what he does. It just makes every decision he makes more difficult.

[El Barto]

I don't suppose my issue was with Wheaton, and to be fair he was put into a damned awkward situation.  What I disliked was that the Enterprise was some floating cross section of society, with all the families and children on-board.  That's not the Star Trek I want to watch on television.  Quite a stupid concept, frankly, and once they set that as a premise,  it made for 7 seasons of oft-shitty TV.  Wesley was pretty much the embodiment of that problem.  There's a joke that Kirk would have thrown him off the ship,  but in reality,  Kirk would have tossed his mother off the ship the moment McCoy filled out the crewman knocked up form. 

I thought it added a new dynamic to the show. When it was all Starfleet on board, then the captain could see them as dying honorable deaths if worse came to worse. But when there's families on board, then Picard has to be extra considerate about what he does. It just makes every decision he makes more difficult.

I don't think Kirk was ever less concerned for the welfare of his crew than Picard was of his.  Furthermore,  Picard would occasionally grow a pair and put all 87,000 of them at extreme risk.  Hell,  he was willing to blow them all up himself on occasion. 

[Adami]

Perhaps, but it's easier for a soldier to demand the lives of other soldiers than it is to demand the lives of civilians.

[El Barto]

Fuck 'em.  I'm pretty sure they knew the risks. 

Furthermore,  I'd be willing to bet that compartmentalization is pretty high on the list of desirable characteristics for a starship captain.

[Dr. DTVT]

So many times I want to post a thought, and realize it would be much easier to just quote Barto.

In retrospect,  like most people I thought at the time that I didn't like her and preferred Crusher.  Looking back,  I actually liked Pulaski a lot and would have been keen to see Crusher blown out of an airlock. 

[Adami]

Bart, it really just seems that you dislike the entire premise of TNG.

[El Barto]

I rather like the premise.  It's the details I can't stand. 

Every season had a handful of good episodes, but for every Sins of the Father, there were four [insert pedantic Troi epsiode]'s.  Most of the crew sucked ass, and all of them, save Data, were fairly meaningless.  Yet easily half of the episodes are centered around one of these silly people. 

[Adami]

I rather like the premise.  It's the details I can't stand. 

Every season had a handful of good episodes, but for every Sins of the Father, there were four [insert pedantic Troi epsiode]'s.  Most of the crew sucked ass, and all of them, save Data, were fairly meaningless.  Yet easily half of the episodes are centered around one of these silly people. 

Fair enough, I agree that Data rocked, but I guess different strokes and all of that stuff.

[Mr. Beale]

Better yet, Wesley blown out of an airlock. Seriously, who else couldn't stand him?

He was alright in a few later episodes when he only showed every now and then, but the boy wonder of the early seasons was awful.

[AndyDT]

Just to say there's a Survivor for ST:TNG https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=26784.0

Re.Wesley - the later episodes I thought were great like the final mission he went on with Picard. Also when he came back from the academy - and when he left the academy. The second one I mentioned - didn't he fall in love with some young lady in the story who later in real life became quite famous?

[Orbert]

Yeah, Ashley Judd was a guest star in an early episode, and she and Wesley get along very well.  It's hard to summarize what happened to their relationship without giving away a really awesome scene, so let's just say there was a serious, um, physical incompatibility.

[yorost]

What are you talking about?

[Mr. Beale]

Yeah, Ashley Judd was a guest star in an early episode, and she and Wesley get along very well.  It's hard to summarize what happened to their relationship without giving away a really awesome scene, so let's just say there was a serious, um, physical incompatibility.

I don't recall that one. I do recall Ashley Judd being hot though. 

[Adami]

Yeah, Ashley Judd was a guest star in an early episode, and she and Wesley get along very well.  It's hard to summarize what happened to their relationship without giving away a really awesome scene, so let's just say there was a serious, um, physical incompatibility.

I don't recall that one.

I do.  What an awful episode.

[Orbert]

What are you talking about?

Wasn't she the one who had a guardian who turned into a beast to protect her, then Ashley herself turned into a beast?