The Haken thread v. Restoration

[GasparXR]

Yeah The Mountain has definitely brought a lot of new fans on board. It's so much more distinctive and unique than the previous albums, so I think a lot of people who were put off by the slightly more straightforward prog-metal are now a lot more interested.

I know The Mountain has only just come out, but I'm already wondering what they'll do next. I loved Visions, but it was a fairly natural progression from Aquarius really - more coherent and more guitar-driven, but very similar in overall approach. TM is such a different beast, I don't think I'll have any expectations next time around.

I agree, it's hard to tell what will happen next. I also agree that The Mountain is very distinct, but I still do find it a sort of natural progression from Visions in some form. Parts of Atlas Stone and In Memoriam kind of share the Visions style, and parts of Cockroach King and Falling Back to Earth remind me of Aquarius a bit.

[Heretic]

Whatever they do next, I want them to keep exploring the vocal harmonies route. I cannot get enough of Cockroach King and Because It's There. Also, keeping and exploring more of the "beautiful" elements (the soft, gorgeous piano, the ballads, vocal harmonies, etc.) would be fantastic as well. As Death Embraces is beautiful, and Deathless was my favorite song from Visions.

[jammindude]

I agree with this.   I would love to see more positive and upbuilding stuff.     It's an avenue of prog that I personally believe is under-explored these days.     Spock's Beard and Enchant maybe...but they haven't really pushed a lot of new ground either.   Neal has his "shtick", and he does it well, but especially after hearing "Shine" from the new Transatlantic album, it hit me pretty hard just how one-dimensional he can be.   How many times can you recycle the same similar melody/idea?

Haken has taken (hey...that rhymes!) positive prog into a new direction...and it really needed it.

I guess I'm just at a point in my life where I'm just not pissed off any more.   I get frustrated sometimes, and it those moments it can be cathartic to listen to something that expresses that frustration....but for the most part, I seem to be gravitating more towards stuff that is more "uplifting".    The Mountain is not just a great album...but in my case, it is the right album at the right time.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I don't think you have to be pissed off to enjoy that kind of music. I mean, I'm not always miserable when I listen to SW....

[ReaPsTA]

Haken has taken (hey...that rhymes!) positive prog into a new direction...and it really needed it.

Yes!  Music is allowed to be good, take itself seriously, and still be fun.  Kudos to Haken for doing that.

I don't think you have to be pissed off to enjoy that kind of music. I mean, I'm not always miserable when I listen to SW....

If I'm not depressed before I listen to SW, I'm depressed afterwards.

[jammindude]

I don't think you have to be pissed off to enjoy that kind of music. I mean, I'm not always miserable when I listen to SW....

I wasn't thinking of SW when I made that statement.   I was thinking of more aggressive prog metal.   But also, I wasn't really thinking that you *HAVE* to be pissed to listen to it.   I only said I was more drawn to it when *I* was pissed.   Now that I'm not pissed, aggressive music doesn't carry the same draw that it used to. 

I do feel that I personally am more drawn to uplifting music at this point in time, because I listen to music I can relate to...and that's just where I'm at right now.

[jammindude]

On the point of positivity...

My favorite song on the album currently is "Because It's There"...   Just noticed something confusing about the lyrics though.   The whole song seems to focus around the main theme of the album...that is, overcoming obstacles and finding our way to a happy life by overcoming adversity.   But the counterpoint lyrics at the end (an echo of Cockroach King theme) seem to give the opposite idea....that the paths that we forge are ultimately built on greed and guile.

Am I mis-interpreting this? 

[ariich]

I'm pretty much never angry, but I still enjoy plenty of aggressive music. I like music to do different things to me and move me in different ways, so my collection displays that I have a range of aggressive, happy, sad, tense, etc music.

[ariich]

On the point of positivity...

My favorite song on the album currently is "Because It's There"...   Just noticed something confusing about the lyrics though.   The whole song seems to focus around the main theme of the album...that is, overcoming obstacles and finding our way to a happy life by overcoming adversity.   But the counterpoint lyrics at the end (an echo of Cockroach King theme) seem to give the opposite idea....that the paths that we forge are ultimately built on greed and guile.

Am I mis-interpreting this? 

I think you are, yes. The counter-melodies in the final chorus reference every other song on the album, not just CK.

[krands85]

Haken has taken (hey...that rhymes!)

I still can't get my head around pronouncing it that way, even though I know it's correct. Whenever I read it I always just process the word in my mind as the other way of saying it

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

How else would you say it?

[Dark Castle]

Shit. It's not pronounced "Hah-Ken"?
Good thing I never talk about this band with others, 

[jammindude]

Shit. It's not pronounced "Hah-Ken"?
Good thing I never talk about this band with others, 

I was pronouncing it this way for months.   It wasn't until I saw on their official FB page that "it rhymes with 'bacon'" that I got set straight on it.

[jammindude]

On the point of positivity...

My favorite song on the album currently is "Because It's There"...   Just noticed something confusing about the lyrics though.   The whole song seems to focus around the main theme of the album...that is, overcoming obstacles and finding our way to a happy life by overcoming adversity.   But the counterpoint lyrics at the end (an echo of Cockroach King theme) seem to give the opposite idea....that the paths that we forge are ultimately built on greed and guile.

Am I mis-interpreting this? 

I think you are, yes. The counter-melodies in the final chorus reference every other song on the album, not just CK.

Still...that being the case...  The counter melodies do all seem to focus more on the theme of selfishness, ambition and pride.   It seems go against the rest of the theme of the song.    Considering how upbeat and uplifting and encouraging the rest of the song is...these counter-melodies kindof come across as a bit of a downer.

[ariich]

I'll ask Ray to explain the exact rationale behind doing that - I have my own ideas but it's easier just to ask him.

[Heretic]

On the point of positivity...

My favorite song on the album currently is "Because It's There"...   Just noticed something confusing about the lyrics though.   The whole song seems to focus around the main theme of the album...that is, overcoming obstacles and finding our way to a happy life by overcoming adversity.   But the counterpoint lyrics at the end (an echo of Cockroach King theme) seem to give the opposite idea....that the paths that we forge are ultimately built on greed and guile.

Am I mis-interpreting this? 

I think you are, yes. The counter-melodies in the final chorus reference every other song on the album, not just CK.

Yeah, I can see where one would be confused when the final lyrics are "challenge met but all the while, a mountain built a greed and guile," seeing as the other lyrics are harder to discern, but that section literally references the lyrics to every single song on the album, which I think is fantastic. Here's the lyrics:

"I wish I could be someone (referencing Somebody)
Be the moon and be the sun (Pareidolia)
Ambition burned my wings ablaze (Falling Back to Earth)
Shed a tear in these dark days (As Death Embraces)
Tearing down the walls of love (In Memorium)
Soaring through the skies above (Falling Back to Earth)
Pride exists to be reclaimed (Somebody)
Roll the dice don't lose the game (In Memorium)
Carry the weight of the world (Atlas Stone)
The summit says you'll prove my worth (Falling Back to Earth)
Let me claim what's rightfully
Yours to take and mine to keep (Somebody)
Stars begin to swarm around (Pareidolia)
The path of fate this tired ground (As Death Embraces)
Challenge met but all the while (Atlas Stone)
A mountain built on greed and guile (Cockroach King)"

[ZKX-2099]

Alright. I had a gift card for my local record store so I went and got The Mountain. Haven't even heard more than a snippet but I all the positive stuff I keep hearing has got me interested.

Hope it's awesome... the cover certainly is.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Have you heard their other albums?

[ZKX-2099]

Nah. Going in clueless. Liking it so for.

[ZKX-2099]

Far I mean.

[jammindude]

On the point of positivity...

My favorite song on the album currently is "Because It's There"...   Just noticed something confusing about the lyrics though.   The whole song seems to focus around the main theme of the album...that is, overcoming obstacles and finding our way to a happy life by overcoming adversity.   But the counterpoint lyrics at the end (an echo of Cockroach King theme) seem to give the opposite idea....that the paths that we forge are ultimately built on greed and guile.

Am I mis-interpreting this? 

I think you are, yes. The counter-melodies in the final chorus reference every other song on the album, not just CK.

Yeah, I can see where one would be confused when the final lyrics are "challenge met but all the while, a mountain built a greed and guile," seeing as the other lyrics are harder to discern, but that section literally references the lyrics to every single song on the album, which I think is fantastic. Here's the lyrics:

"I wish I could be someone (referencing Somebody)
Be the moon and be the sun (Pareidolia)
Ambition burned my wings ablaze (Falling Back to Earth)
Shed a tear in these dark days (As Death Embraces)
Tearing down the walls of love (In Memorium)
Soaring through the skies above (Falling Back to Earth)
Pride exists to be reclaimed (Somebody)
Roll the dice don't lose the game (In Memorium)
Carry the weight of the world (Atlas Stone)
The summit says you'll prove my worth (Falling Back to Earth)
Let me claim what's rightfully
Yours to take and mine to keep (Somebody)
Stars begin to swarm around (Pareidolia)
The path of fate this tired ground (As Death Embraces)
Challenge met but all the while (Atlas Stone)
A mountain built on greed and guile (Cockroach King)"

It's an absolutely BRILLIANT concept...putting a line from every song there like that.   And it sounds gorgeous.

But it just underlines my point.   Think about all the rest of the lyrics to Because It's There.    I love the idea of overcoming trials...even looking at our own personal obstacles the way that some people look at mountains.   "I WANT to overcome this...just because it's there."    It's a beautiful way of helping us to look at the adversities in our lives as opportunities to grow instead of being overwhelmed. 

But then all the counterpoint lyrics just seem to focus on wanting to be the sun and moon....pride existing only to be reclaimed...claiming what is your and keeping it for myself...a mountain built on greed and guile. 

It's just weird.   It's like someone telling you....  "You're a wonderful person!  You can overcome this!  You can do this!!   btw...you're a selfish, greedy sonofabitch for wanting to do this.   Oh...YOU want to overcome adversity?   It's all about YOU now???"   

[Nofire]

Just listened through TM for the first time. This band is fornicating ridiculous, and Atlas Stone might be one of the best songs ever made.

[SomeoneLikeHim]

This band is fornicating ridiculous

Yes

Atlas Stone might be one of the best songs ever made.

No

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I don't know, it's pretty good.

[SomeoneLikeHim]

Well, every single Haken song is "pretty good". What's your point?

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

 

[krands85]

Listened to the The Mountain for the first time in a few weeks today - the mixing/mastering/production or whatever you want to call it is so good. Even just listening through quite cheap earphones on my phone, each instrument comes through clearly and the whole album sounds great. Night and day compared to DT12 and presumably with a fraction of the budget too.

Definitely in my top 2 albums of 2013 

[GasparXR]

Just listened through TM for the first time. This band is fornicating ridiculous, and Atlas Stone might be one of the best songs ever made.

Yes. I mean Haken.



But I actually agree. Every song in this album, I think, is one of the best ever made.

[Estiui]

I have to agree. I would say that TM is easily in my top 10 albums ever made. I can't find a weak song in the album, all of them are absolutely wonderful. I would consider In Memoriam as the worst song in the album, and I still love it   

I'd say that my favourites are Cockroach King and Falling Back to Earth, but I love all of them. BTW, I hope they keep incorporating that vocal parts with mixed melodies, even singing A Capella, they do it in a wonderful way.

[Nekov]

According to their Facebook, the guys have finished auditioning a new Bassist. Let's hope the new guys rocks it.

[Nekov]

And an awesome pic

[ariich]

Hah, awesome! Afternoon tea is totally metal.

Looks like the Headspace bassist is still playing with them at the moment. I know they really liked playing with him - I wonder if they managed to convince him to audition.

[Nekov]

It'd be great if they could convince Jordan to play with them at least once, I'm pretty sure he'd be up for it

[ariich]

Three-way keyboard battle between Jordan, Diego and Hen!

[GasparXR]

Looks like the Headspace bassist is still playing with them at the moment. I know they really liked playing with him - I wonder if they managed to convince him to audition.

Wait, I didn't know they had a temporary bassist!