The Haken thread v. Restoration

[Perpetual Change]

Hm. Comparing this with Aquarius-- it's got higher highs, imo, as well as better lyrics. On the down-site, the instrumental sections tend to wander a bit and the album is a lot less consistent (especially during the song cycle in the middle). I'd say they're about equal.

[Heretic]

I absolutely love Deathless. Definitely one of their best songs.

[faemir]

What do people think of Haken vs. Dream Theater?

[Heretic]

I like ADTOE more than Visions but they're both awesome and top 10 albums for the year.

[Nekov]

Well, I've heard 11 DT albums and only 2 by Haken. If they can keep it up they could easily be a greater band than DT. I want to see what they can come up with after these two masterpieces they have created.

[yesrushdt]

Album of the year for sure.

I'm in total agreement.  As amazing as ADTOE and many other albums have been this year, Visions just seems to be that much better in every way. 

Production has definitely improved since Aquarius (without sounding OVER-produced like so many modern albums) as has the songwriting.  Wish they would have included a bit more of the symphonic/ambient type passages (like they had on Aquarius), but that's a small complaint.  I appreciate the fact that they were going for something different (heavier overall) this time around.  Fits well with the concept.

[juice]

My copy just came in the mail.  This album kicks ass! 

[juice]

After my first listen I think this album is probably better than Aquarius.

[kirksnosehair]

Finally just got around to ordering this one. 

[pogoowner]

What do people think of Haken vs. Dream Theater?

Haken's material blows current Dream Theater out of the water.

I prefer Aquarius to Visions. Visions is a little more consistent, perhaps, but the highs are just not as impressive.

[jsem]

I prefer Aquarius to Visions. Visions is a little more consistent, perhaps, but the highs are just not as impressive.

After three listens, this is my opinion. I don't see it changing all that much.

[Jaq]

Gave this a re-listen recently, and I agree with the consensus: Aquarius has the higher highs, Visions is more consistent. Aquarius was occasionally a little scattershot (and I still wince at the death metal vocals) but Visions in terms of songwriting is more consistent and focused. And oh, that title track. 

[Elite]

Visions > Aquarius > A Dramatic Turn of Events

That's what I think about Haken vs. Dream Theater. I'm probably one of the biggest Haken fanboys in the world, having listened to Aquarius TONS of times. I only received Visions last monday and I can say I've spun it at least 10 times in my CD player already. I can't say that of ADTOE or BC&SL. Visions blew me away, from first listen on. While Aquarius was a VERY impressive album and AOTY for 2010 for me, I think the band outdid themselves with Visions. The lyrics are better, the songwriting has matured a lot, the album flows better and the music is, imho, absolutely fantastic. This is one band to look out for. Having seen them live twice already (as many times as I've seen DT), I can gladly say this band is worth going to and their music is awesome to be enjoyed in a live setting.

[ariich]

Visions blew me away, from first listen on. While Aquarius was a VERY impressive album and AOTY for 2010 for me, I think the band outdid themselves with Visions. The lyrics are better, the songwriting has matured a lot, the album flows better and the music is, imho, absolutely fantastic.

Completely agreed with this, I really love Visions.

[Heretic]

I like Visions better than Aquarius, actually. The album feels so cohesive and just makes me actually want to listen to it in full, with all concentration on the music.

And I'm still also convinced Deathless is the best them. Such an amazing song.

[rumborak]

After all these glowing reviews I decided to buy the album from Amazon.
Hmm, can't say I'm with you guys on this. I find the band still has the same issues they had with Aquarius (which I had heard a long time ago), that is, prog by numbers. They got the key solos, the 7-string guitar, the choir patches, the lyrics about alternate realities, conspiracies etc., but in all that I find there's very little song. To say it somewhat acrimoniously, to me it's the music they play in venues before the band comes on.
Oh well. They got my money, so I hope they'll put out another album after this one. Maybe I'll appreciate that one more. I'll probably also give it another whirl or two on the plane to Australia.

rumborak

[ariich]

Rumbo, do give the album a good few listens before finalising judgement. The last two tracks are particularly excellent!

[rumborak]

I will, aarich. One thing is finalized though; they need to find a lyrics writer. Good god, their lyrics are one long chain of clichees

rumborak

[ariich]

Yeah they have the occasional great line but a lot of the lyrics are pretty standard prog fare.

[kirksnosehair]

After all these glowing reviews I decided to buy the album from Amazon.
Hmm, can't say I'm with you guys on this. I find the band still has the same issues they had with Aquarius (which I had heard a long time ago), that is, prog by numbers. They got the key solos, the 7-string guitar, the choir patches, the lyrics about alternate realities, conspiracies etc., but in all that I find there's very little song. To say it somewhat acrimoniously, to me it's the music they play in venues before the band comes on.
Oh well. They got my money, so I hope they'll put out another album after this one. Maybe I'll appreciate that one more. I'll probably also give it another whirl or two on the plane to Australia.

rumborak

hmm, that was kind of what I thought about their first one and I had hoped they'd mature a bit with this one.  I'll reserve judgement, though, until I actually hear it.

[snowdog]

Well, I've heard 11 DT albums and only 2 by Haken. If they can keep it up they could easily be a greater band than DT. I want to see what they can come up with after these two masterpieces they have created.

Yeah I think it is a bit hard to compare the two at this point.  I'm not "worshiping" Haken's music the way I might have DTs music when I&W and Awake were released.  But Haken does give me that excitement of seeing a band earlier in their career and seeing what they'll create from here on out like DT 19 years ago.   Then again music isn't the only thing I'm passionate about these days, so that is probably part of it too.

In any case I really like Visions.  I've been listening to it almost non-stop over the last week.  I think it is a solid album.  I don't really mind the lyrics like others do. 

My only real complaint is the album almost has too many x/8 time signatures.   Don't get me wrong, I do love 6/8, 7/8, whatever, but so few of the songs have anything that is in 4/4.  It just feels a little odd to me.  The more I've dug into the album, the less of an issue it has become, but it was definitely something I felt from the first few listens.

[Jaq]

I think it's a little premature to compare the two bands, especially since the very existence of bands like Haken wouldn't be possible if Dream Theater hadn't ever been around. I personally prefer ADTOE to Visions myself (neither are my progressive metal CDs of the year, to be honest, since that's a pier six brawl between Symphony X and Arch/Matheos.) The thing about Haken is that they execute progressive metal incredibly well, but they're hardly, for lack of a better word, innovative. They're resolutely a progressive metal band. I don't mean to insult Haken, because they're INCREDIBLE, but I understand why people can call them prog by numbers. They sort of ARE, they just do it exceptionally well.

[jsem]

Visions and ADTOE are at about the same level for me.

[faemir]

They're resolutely a progressive metal band. I don't mean to insult Haken, because they're INCREDIBLE, but I understand why people can call them prog by numbers. They sort of ARE, they just do it exceptionally well.

I disagree, they they the first prog metal band I can listen to consistently outside of Dream Theater. Redemption are a distant, distant third, and nothing else is anywhere near close.

[kirksnosehair]

I've now heard the album twice and I think it's definitely a step in the right direction on all fronts.  They've improved everything.  Production values are better than the first one, the songs are better, the instrumentation is better.  I really like it!  The first album showed potential, but I thought it maybe lacked a bit of focus.  This one really flows nicely.

Lyrically, it seems fine to me.  This one's definitely going to get a lot of spins.

[Perpetual Change]

Yeah, I like the lyrics as well. Ross may *occasionally* stink it up as a singer (usually just live), but he also writes all the lyrics and vocal melodies (according to the booklet of Aquarius, anyway), which are for the most part exceptional. And, c'mon, Aquarius was about a mermaid, which definitely isn't standard prog-metal fare  The concept of Visions is a bit more cliche, but not totally. I can see how the references to alternate realities, dreaming, and so-on seem generic, but once you start putting the story together I think you'll see that it really does offer some surprises that make for great twists.

If you didn't like Aquarius, though, I can't imagine you liking Visions. Rumby, I think you're looking for the wrong things from this band. People like them specifically because of the reasons you seem not to. They *are* as :traditional prog-metal" as it gets, especially Visions (Aquarius was more diverse), but people like them because they perceive them as a band "getting the genre right" in a sea of lame DT-copy bands. That's what it was for me, anyway. People who've drifted from the genre completely aren't going to like it, I don't think.

FWIW, I still recommend Aquarius over this. Both are good, but after listening to this for a solid week I feel like parts of it drag and the thrills have worn-off. Flash-back into Aquarius, and I felt like I was still discovering the band's secrets a month in.

[PintoZ]

Wanna see a music video I did for the whole 22min "Visions" epic ? 

=> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pAtQZHExZ4

[Global Laziness]

That was pretty cool. What inspired you to make this?

[PintoZ]

Thanks !
Well I kept seeing "images" in my head while listening to this track, especially the last 3 minutes..
And then I thought..."would be pretty cool to have a music video for the whole thing !"
Plus a music video for a 20min prog epic to my knowledge hasn't been done often so...I gave it a try

[ariich]

How much of that footage was original and how much of it was nabbed from existing films, etc? It's really cool either way, I'm just curious.

[PintoZ]

The only original thing is the "I bet you don't remember me" part ( which basically is...my mouth )
Everything else is from movies !

[ariich]

Ah ok, makes sense Still, nicely edited.

[juice]

Nice video! 

[TimmyHiggy]

I came across the video via the band's facebook page, and thought it was really good work. Good choices+splicing!

[Nel]

This album does nothing for me. Granted, it took Aquarius a year to click, and when it did, it did hard. But nothing on Visions is really all that memorable to me. I've listened to the title track about five times already, and that "I bet you don't, remember me" section is too wacky for me to take the rest of the song's beauty in.

Come back to me in a year, I'll probably love it.