2019 NFL Thread v. Chiefs are Champs, Missouri rules the sports world

[Stadler]

Was Mahomes hurt?  Sorry, I fully admit I'm not on the Patrick Mahomes Fellatio Squad (yet) but that last quarter was not impressive at all.  I know, I know, it's one quarter (that's all I watched), and you can't ignore the last 21 games, but I think that showed what I already knew: that's still an Andy Reid team.  REALLY good at some things, not good enough at others. 

[bosk1]

The AFC is clearly down to Chiefs/Pats, but it would take you 8 NFC teams before you got to Baltimore?

Yes.  The Ravens are an average at best team.  They beat the Dolphins, Cardinals and Steelers (with their 3rd string QB).  BFD.  Let me know when they beat a good team.

I'll take all over these teams over Baltimore right now:

New England
Kansas City
Seattle
New Orleans
Green Bay
Philly
LA Rams
San Fran.
Dallas
Houston
Minnesota
Chicago
Carolina

And maybe Buffalo and Detroit.  And possibly Cleveland depending on what they do tomorrow night.

I like this.  But I am currently very cautious about my optimism surrounding this team.  I think the Bucs are better than people thought, so I don't take that win lightly.  And what they had to overcome to get the win against the Steelers says a lot of good things about this team as well.  But I still think they are largely untested.  How they play tonight against the Browns and next week against the Rams will say a lot.  If they win both of those, I think they are in the upper tier of NFC teams, alongside (in no particular order) the Saints, Packers, and Seahawks.  If they go 1-1, I would tentatively put them low in the top half of the NFC.  I guess we'll know in about a week or so.

I do like that, as of this moment, they have the second best record in the league, just behind the Pats.  But being realistic, even if they do win the next 2 and get to 5-0, they still have a long way to go before being anywhere near the same caliber is New England.

EDIT:  Looking at their schedule, they are easily set up to be the most overhyped team in the NFL by mid-season if they do manage to beat the Browns and Rams.  Their next 3 games are against the Redskins, Panthers, and Cards.  They could easily be 8-0 by the time that run is over.  The problem is, their schedule is very backloaded, so even if they manage to get to 7-1 or 8-0, I think they will likely have a losing or even record in the last 8.

[hefdaddy42]

Christian McCaffrey was a BEAST yesterday.  The Panthers aren't getting much press, but he is putting up yards from scrimmage numbers that haven't been seen since Jim Brown.  If he keeps this up, he will be in the MVP mix by the end of the season.

[bosk1]

Well, people are already wanting to crown him MVP, so I don't know about them/him not getting much press.

[King Postwhore]

Christian McCaffrey was a BEAST yesterday.  The Panthers aren't getting much press, but he is putting up yards from scrimmage numbers that haven't been seen since Jim Brown.  If he keeps this up, he will be in the MVP mix by the end of the season.

Not the prototypical back that would garner the MVP accolades which makes it even a better story.

[bosk1]

OK, I know it's still early.  But I'm starting to feel like the '9ers have something.  That was far from a perfect game.  But it was an impressive win.

[TAC]

OK, I know it's still early.  But I'm starting to feel like the '9ers have something.  That was far from a perfect game.  But it was an impressive win.

The RB's had a great game. They torched the Browns' D.

[bosk1]

For sure.  The only concerns I saw last night:

1.  Their new long snapper needs some more reps.  In a close game, you need those FGs. 

2.  Even aside from the missed FG's, they definitely left some points on the field that they should have had.  Mind you, I'm not complaining about not having enough points in a game they won 31-3.  I'm just saying that they need to tighten up and execute on plays where the opportunity is there for the taking, and not do things like drop passes or Jimmy G miss open receivers.  I just want to see a bit more polish. 

[TAC]

There were some bad drops. Late in the game he hit that one guy in perfect stride for what should've been a TD.

I forgot about the FGs. What a mess.

I'm rooting for the 9'ers as I'd like to see Jimmy G succeed there. They just need to keep building and improving.

[bosk1]

Yeah, I'm hoping that as they keep playing together with this core, they will keep building.  They certainly have the pieces in place to do that. 

[Nick]

King, TAC, Bosk... might as well join the group discussing the leagues unbeaten teams.

[TAC]

Yeah, just two left..

The Pats have played literally the easiest schedule so far. I mean, they have played nobody, save for the Bills, who have really improved under McDermott. But even then...it's Buffalo.

[King Postwhore]

Been here before.  I want to see how we play in December.  That's normally an indication except for last year.

[Dublagent66]

I'm not sold on the 9ers until they play a good team.  Just like I wasn't sold on Dallas when they played shitty teams the first 3 weeks and everybody thought they were good. 

[bosk1]

I'm not sold on the 9ers until they play a good team.  Just like I wasn't sold on Dallas when they played shitty teams the first 3 weeks and everybody thought they were good. 

Yeah, I'm right there with you.  But I'm feeling a lot more sold on their defense, at least.  And their run game.  I'm not sold on them as a complete team.  But I think I have seen enough to feel like the praise those to pieces are getting is legitimate.  I'm curious to see how they perform against the Rams this week.  And I'm very curious to see how they perform with Juszczyk now out 4-6 weeks.  He is SO key to what they do well on offense. 

What's funny to me in seeing all kinds of stories about that game and what it supposedly "means" is that it would appear the a lot of folks around the NFL had that Monday night game penciled in as the expected coronation of Mayfield and the Browns as the next big thing, and instead it served as the coronation for the 49ers defense as one of the most feared in the league right now.

[KevShmev]

How good the 49ers are still remains to be seen of course, but 4-0 is 4-0, and they are in good position to make a run for a playoff spot. Their four games vs the Rams and Seahawks will tell us a lot.

[TAC]

Nerf dual, WTF??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRquDYJITpc

[King Postwhore]

Nerf dual, WTF??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRquDYJITpc

That is GLORIOUS!!

[Stadler]

Nerf dual, WTF??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRquDYJITpc

That is GLORIOUS!!

Chase Winovich looks like that dude that stands around in his underwear in Times Square.

[cramx3]

Tonight should be a pretty good beat down by the Pats.  My Giants are very very banged up.  Not that I would have given them much chance if they were healthy, but I'd be more hopefuly for a good game if they were.  Now, I'm guessing 35-7 type of game.  Pats D is too good and our defense is swiss cheese. 

[King Postwhore]

I'll apologize in person.

[King Postwhore]

I take that back.  To quote Tim, "Our offense blows."

[TAC]

Jared Stidham no longer has the only TD pass against the Pats this year.

[King Postwhore]

 

[cramx3]

  at least its been worth watching.  My friends are so excited, but I just see the Pats offense really struggling and sloppy the first half while the Giants just look overall terrible.  Brady doesn't lose at home with the lead at half and they don't lose to rookie QBs.  It'll take a miracle to come back the second half.  I'm glad this has at least been entertaining though.

[Stadler]

Tonight should be a pretty good beat down by the Pats.  My Giants are very very banged up.  Not that I would have given them much chance if they were healthy, but I'd be more hopefuly for a good game if they were.  Now, I'm guessing 35-7 type of game.  Pats D is too good and our defense is swiss cheese.

The maddening thing about being both a Pats fan and a Giants fan.  That was a better game for the Giants than it had any right to be, and that was not the game that Bill wanted his club to turn in on ANY Sunday, and  yet... look at the actual score and your predicted score. 

[cramx3]

That 7 points was thanks to a Brady fumble, I was pretty spot on and it was only a sloppy first half by NE's offense that gave it a closeness to start.  The second half played out exactly as expected.

[El Barto]

Tonight should be a pretty good beat down by the Pats.  My Giants are very very banged up.  Not that I would have given them much chance if they were healthy, but I'd be more hopefuly for a good game if they were.  Now, I'm guessing 35-7 type of game.  Pats D is too good and our defense is swiss cheese.

The maddening thing about being both a Pats fan and a Giants fan.  That was a better game for the Giants than it had any right to be, and that was not the game that Bill wanted his club to turn in on ANY Sunday, and  yet... look at the actual score and your predicted score.

That was the sort of game NE occasionally loses. They're not strangers to playing to the level of their opponent, and this was the sort of game they might lose on a bizarre kick return or untimely pick six. The fact that theyr'e winning even the sloppy games thanks to D is encouraging to me.  My hunch is that when we finally see them play a quality team we'll see good Patriots football. Until then we see them beating ugly teams ugly, and probably dropping one or two along the way. I woudln't rule out an upset by NYJ.

[TAC]

That was the sort of game NE occasionally loses. They're not strangers to playing to the level of their opponent, and this was the sort of game they might lose on a bizarre kick return or untimely pick six. 

Yeah, that's how it seemed to be shaping up.

[Dublagent66]

Funny that in a copy cat league such as the NFL, no other team tries to copy the Pats.  There should be a new paradigm shift called "Copy Pats". 

[El Barto]

Funny that in a copy cat league such as the NFL, no other team tries to copy the Pats.  There should be a new paradigm shift called "Copy Pats". 

That's an interesting point. Much of what they do is repeatable by other teams. You can't run out and draft another TB12, and you're unlikely to find a better game manager than Bill, but everything else is doable.

Plan around what you have rather than hire for what you want.
Bring in football players rather than exceptional athletes.
Focus on value rather than star power.
Don't tolerate asshats.
Hire from within to maintain culture. 
Don't be afraid to break with convention.
Find uses for great players who've lost a step.
Don't gamble with high value picks.

It really doesn't seem like there are any other teams in the league that can or will do these things. I suspect the biggest hurdle is getting to a point where you can begin. You can bring in a Darrel Revis or a Randy Moss when you're offering a solid bet for a ring and a second chance. Cleveland doesn't have that to offer. You can hire excellent coaches from within when you've already got excellent coaching but not before. A new, young coach who loses a game after a 4th and 2 isn't likely to get many more chances, so he's less likely to be unconventional. But, somebody like Pete Carroll or Andy Reid should be able to pull it off.

[Stadler]

There's one other thing: have an owner that is tolerant of the ramp up to that plateau.   When you have asshat owners that measure their teams success on "jersey sales", you tend to get teams like the Browns and the Cowboys. 

In my view there are only a handful of owners that are capable of letting that kind of plan fully form.   

[El Barto]

There's one other thing: have an owner that is tolerant of the ramp up to that plateau.   When you have asshat owners that measure their teams success on "jersey sales", you tend to get teams like the Browns and the Cowboys. 

In my view there are only a handful of owners that are capable of letting that kind of plan fully form.

It's funny you mention Dallas because one of the few coaches I can think of that seemed to do what NE does was Jimmy Johnson.

[Dublagent66]

Exactly.  Jimmy Johnson created a culture that was conducive to winning no matter what it took.  Too bad Jerry Jones' ego was threatened by the superior football mind of his head coach.
It's also interesting that BB and JJ have been close friends for a long time.  They truly are two of a kind.

[El Barto]

Exactly.  Jimmy Johnson created a culture that was conducive to winning no matter what it took.  Too bad Jerry Jones' ego was threatened by the superior football mind of his head coach.
It's also interesting that BB and JJ have been close friends for a long time.  They truly are two of a kind.

Wasn't aware that they were close friends, but it certainly doesn't surprise me.

They have some commonalities and they had some differences. Clearly they both created a winning attitude. They're both willing to think outside the box and utilize the talent they have. (Converting Haley to DE certainly comes to mind.) They both make it very clear from the get-go that if your'e a problem you're gone, particularly if you're a fumbler. (I still think Jimmy kept a sacrificial jackass on the roster each year just to be able to scare the bejeezus out of the rest of the team.) And I think it says a lot that as soon as Jimmy was replaced by a player's coach the whole thing collapsed. At the same time I see differences in style. Has Bill ever been one for screaming, profanity filled tirades on the flights home?* Jimmy's were legendary to the point that even Buddy Rich would be appalled. I'm not sure Bill would have tolerated some of the antics, either. Even those coming from 88. My hunch is that if somebody, even Tom Brady, stabs a teammate in the throat he's going to be gone sooner rather than later.

That said, it's impossible to know how much of this is on Jimmy vs Jerry.


*Serious question. Does anybody know?