Game of Thrones (TV, fantasy) Thread

[masterthes]

Another great episode. Yeah, Daeny is really boring me right now. Everything else is great. Do you get the sense Jon would have let Ollie live, like it was more for the benefit of the men, or else why did he quit the watch at the end? he clearly felt guilty about it

[hefdaddy42]

I don't think he felt guilty.  He did his duty, although his duty was distasteful.  Not something to be guilty of.

[gmillerdrake]

I don't think he felt guilty.  He did his duty, although his duty was distasteful.  Not something to be guilty of.

I don't think he felt guilty either....especially given that he watched Olly stab him in the heart, then...got a wicked stare down from him as Jon looked at him. I think Jon was more trying to figure out where it went 'wrong' with he and Olly and he probably figured Olly thought it was his duty to kill Jon just as Jon knows it was his duty to kill the traitors.

I'm curious as to if Jon will still be at the Wall when Sansa arrives or if he's already gone....and if so, where did he go?

[hefdaddy42]

Judging by the entire history of the show since Ned Stark left for Kings Landing, I would guess they will just miss each other.

[cramx3]

I think Sansa gets there before he leaves and gives him the motivation to take the wildling army who now see him as some sort of God and go to Winterfell to save Rickon and reclaim the north for the Starks.  Melisandre's visions of the battlefield in Winterfell will be true, but with Jon and not Stannis.

[ariich]

Judging by the entire history of the show since Ned Stark left for Kings Landing, I would guess they will just miss each other.

Surely eventually a Stark needs to meet another Stark again, but I'm sure the show will drag it out a bit longer.

[gmillerdrake]

Judging by the entire history of the show since Ned Stark left for Kings Landing, I would guess they will just miss each other.

Surely eventually a Stark needs to meet another Stark again, but I'm sure the show will drag it out a bit longer.

I would hope so....but as Hef mentioned....this show clearly does all it can to not have one 'happy', satisfying moment. It is nothing but misery and even when there is a payoff or some sort of 'good' it's not really....

[Evermind]

Judging by the entire history of the show since Ned Stark left for Kings Landing, I would guess they will just miss each other.

Surely eventually a Stark needs to meet another Stark again, but I'm sure the show will drag it out a bit longer.

How about this: Jon and Sansa will just miss each other, then Jon hears about Ramsay and Rickon, marches on Winterfell and gets to watch Ramsay killing Rickon in some overly sadistic and infuriating way?

[Cyclopssss]

Judging by the entire history of the show since Ned Stark left for Kings Landing, I would guess they will just miss each other.

Surely eventually a Stark needs to meet another Stark again, but I'm sure the show will drag it out a bit longer.

How about this: Jon and Sansa will just miss each other, then Jon hears about Ramsay and Rickon, marches on Winterfell and gets to watch Ramsay killing Rickon in some overly sadistic and infuriating way?

That wouldn´t surprise me one bit....

[MirrorMask]

I think Jon will defeat Ramsay.

Sooner or later the White Walkers will invade Westeros and by that time there's no need anymore, plot wise, for Ramsay.

I was wondering as well which ones of the Stark will eventually meet again. Bran is the one that to me has the highest chances of approaching by warging or magical means whoever he wants.

[Evermind]

I think Jon will defeat Ramsay.

Me too, but I think Rickon is as good as gone and I seriously think Jon might have to watch him dying before he gets to Ramsay.

[cramx3]

I think Jon will defeat Ramsay.

Me too, but I think Rickon is as good as gone and I seriously think Jon might have to watch him dying before he gets to Ramsay.

I think so too.  If that was truly Shaggydog's head given to Ramsay then Rickon might as well be dead as far as I am concerned, let alone handing him to Ramsay.

[ariich]

Judging by the entire history of the show since Ned Stark left for Kings Landing, I would guess they will just miss each other.

Surely eventually a Stark needs to meet another Stark again, but I'm sure the show will drag it out a bit longer.

How about this: Jon and Sansa will just miss each other, then Jon hears about Ramsay and Rickon, marches on Winterfell and gets to watch Ramsay killing Rickon in some overly sadistic and infuriating way?

The grin suggests that you're joking, but that's literally what I'm expecting to happen because this is Game of Thrones.

[Prog Snob]

I don't think he felt guilty.  He did his duty, although his duty was distasteful.  Not something to be guilty of.

I don't think he felt guilty either....especially given that he watched Olly stab him in the heart, then...got a wicked stare down from him as Jon looked at him. I think Jon was more trying to figure out where it went 'wrong' with he and Olly and he probably figured Olly thought it was his duty to kill Jon just as Jon knows it was his duty to kill the traitors.

I disagree with the both of you. I watched the scene again and there's definitely some guilt in his eyes, some sadness. He knows he has to suffer Olly to the same fate as the other three, but he also knows that Olly was undoubtedly goaded by the other men in regards to his death. Sure, he had hatred towards Jon's actions, but he would have never acted on his own to do such a thing.

I think Sansa gets there before he leaves and gives him the motivation to take the wildling army who now see him as some sort of God and go to Winterfell to save Rickon and reclaim the north for the Starks.  Melisandre's visions of the battlefield in Winterfell will be true, but with Jon and not Stannis.

I've been saying that for a while now and I still stand behind it. I'm so focused on what becomes of Jon's character, more than I am for Dany's or Tyrion's.

[gmillerdrake]

I'm so focused on what becomes of Jon's character, more than I am for Dany's or Tyrion's.

Me too. i think it's because all evidence points to him being THE character that is going to being peace or unite...or whatever the 'end game' for the story is. Jon Snow appears to be the key ingredient....not Dany or Tyrion. That 'game' they are playing will go on forever but the invasion from the White Walkers is the only threat to man and Jon will be the one who stops them...not the other two.

[Prog Snob]

I'm so focused on what becomes of Jon's character, more than I am for Dany's or Tyrion's.

Me too. i think it's because all evidence points to him being THE character that is going to being peace or unite...or whatever the 'end game' for the story is. Jon Snow appears to be the key ingredient....not Dany or Tyrion. That 'game' they are playing will go on forever but the invasion from the White Walkers is the only threat to man and Jon will be the one who stops them...not the other two.

I like some of the theories that say Jon will lead an army against Daenerys' army and her dragons. She does have the capacity to go mad like her relatives and it's totally plausible that she could lose her mind.

I also love this theory that some believe is the one that GRRM said was the theory he was referring to when he said a couple of fans correctly guessed the ending.  https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/23p48r/the_true_nature_and_purpose_of_the_others_and_the/

[Prog Snob]

They released titles for episodes six and seven.

https://watchersonthewall.com/titles-game-thrones-episodes-606-607-revealed/#more-64480

[gmillerdrake]

I'm so focused on what becomes of Jon's character, more than I am for Dany's or Tyrion's.

Me too. i think it's because all evidence points to him being THE character that is going to being peace or unite...or whatever the 'end game' for the story is. Jon Snow appears to be the key ingredient....not Dany or Tyrion. That 'game' they are playing will go on forever but the invasion from the White Walkers is the only threat to man and Jon will be the one who stops them...not the other two.

I like some of the theories that say Jon will lead an army against Daenerys' army and her dragons. She does have the capacity to go mad like her relatives and it's totally plausible that she could lose her mind.

I also love this theory that some believe is the one that GRRM said was the theory he was referring to when he said a couple of fans correctly guessed the ending.  https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/23p48r/the_true_nature_and_purpose_of_the_others_and_the/

Interesting and seems like it could be plausible....

[Prog Snob]

I'm so focused on what becomes of Jon's character, more than I am for Dany's or Tyrion's.

Me too. i think it's because all evidence points to him being THE character that is going to being peace or unite...or whatever the 'end game' for the story is. Jon Snow appears to be the key ingredient....not Dany or Tyrion. That 'game' they are playing will go on forever but the invasion from the White Walkers is the only threat to man and Jon will be the one who stops them...not the other two.

I like some of the theories that say Jon will lead an army against Daenerys' army and her dragons. She does have the capacity to go mad like her relatives and it's totally plausible that she could lose her mind.

I also love this theory that some believe is the one that GRRM said was the theory he was referring to when he said a couple of fans correctly guessed the ending.  https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/23p48r/the_true_nature_and_purpose_of_the_others_and_the/

Interesting and seems like it could be plausible....

All of these competing theories enhance my love for the books and show. I sat down for hours one day and read random theories. I loved quite a few of them and realized I could very well be disappointed since not all of the theories can be accurate obviously. It's what further aspired me to write more. Creating my own world and sending the characters in whatever direction I see fit is really the most pleasing way to satisfy every fantastical urge.

It's not too early to discuss this. Where is every character going to wind up at the end of the current season? Any theories?

[hefdaddy42]

Fuck, I don't know.

[cramx3]

The theories is also one of the reasons why I love the book/show. There's so much depth and storylines intertwined that make discussing theories way more interesting than other books/shows.

Guesses for endpoints of the main characters:

Dany - Queen of the Iron Throne
Tyrion - Hand of the Queen of the Iron Throne
Jorah - Dead (seems likely he will die with grey scale)
Missandei and Grey Worm - One will die, why else do they show a love relationship building?  The other stays on Dany's staff till the end... or also dies
Cersei - Dead
Jon Snow - King of the North
Bran - Not sure where and how he will end up, he will leave the cave, but I don't know how and this is hard to predict
Sansa - Back with Tyrion and Queen of Casterly Rock (I think she will realize that he was the only person who treated her right and will honor their wedding in the end)
Arya - Maybe ends up as Kingsguard or something, I dont think she remains a faceless man, but will obviously become a deadly assassin and she doesn't seem to be the type to settle down as a Lady.
Theon - Dead, probably do something else heroic for the Starks in the end that'll cost him his life
Melisandre - Dead, I just don't see her being there at the end even though she currently sits in a good position with me for saving Jon
Davos - I could see him becoming the Lord of some castle somewhere, if he makes it alive and I hope he does, he will be deserving of something nice
Littlefinger - Dead, his scheming will have to catch up to him one day
Varys - Not sure, maybe dies, but could also stay alive to the end as the Lord of Whispers for the Iron Throne again.
Jamie - I think he dies at some point, he will turn around and actually become a good guy and die in a heroic way, maybe buy actually saving the King (or Queen).
Margery - Dead, I don't see much of a point to her anymore, wouldn't be surprised if the Faith Militant kill her
Benjen - Comes back from wherever he was and is now Lord Commander, or is just dead.

I'm sure I missed some people and also these are not to be taken seriously obviously

[Sycsa]

Damn, is this show dragging. Last season was slow as a sloth, but that was because it was about to catch up to the books and had to wait for the next one (which didn't come out in the end), or so I thought. I was sure that now that they're not bound by the books, having surpassed them, the pace will pick up again. Boy, was I wrong. The show is on full stop, nothing really happens, everything is just falling into place and building up towards something. I'm sure that the payoff will be good, but it'll arrive towards the end of the season, and, until then, I'll have to endure plenty of dud episodes like the 3rd one.

None of the storylines is particulary interesting, Jon's resurrection was predictable as hell (I even called it after the first episode that he will suddenly wake up breathing heavily before the screen fades to the credits, exactly what happened next week), and the rest are even weaker.

The worst offender of them all is Ayra's storyline. Talk about lazy writing. It's obvious from the get-go how it will all end (again, predictibility in Game of Thrones is an uncharacteristically bad trait), there is absolutely no inner conflict, no outer challenge, no tension, we just have to endure watching her get smacked the shit out of with a stick to the face for three episodes, before anything worthwhile can happen (or, at least I hope it will).

At this point, by far the most interesting storyline is the admittedly lazy storytelling method of Bran's flashbacks. I'm genuinely interested in seeing more of young Ned's exploits, even though its ultimate purpose is to drag the main story even further. I don't mind it though, nothing else that's currently happening in Westeros is even remotely as interesting. And somebody please just slaughter that annoying High Sparrow already.

[hefdaddy42]

   This season is racing through plotlines.  Not sure what you are talking about.  Yeah, last season was slow, but not this season.

[BlackInk]

Personally I feel the opposite, I thought these have been three unusually fast paced episode for being the beginning of a season. Something most people seems to agree with. Almost everyone I've talked to about the season has basically said the same thing, which is "so much happened this episode". I've gotten that comment about every episide this season so far from people I work with or other friends.

Also, I don't see why Bran's flashbacks is lazy storytelling. It's not just ordinary random flashbacks to explain stuff to the audience. There is a storybased reason to see this, and having Bran be able to see it is something that has been set up since the very start of the series. I would even say that it's a pretty clever way to show past events without simply resorting to the old normal flashback routine.

[Sycsa]

I said "admittedly lazy storytelling", referring to one of the authors' statement about this kind narrative tool. I don't mind it, as I said before, it's the best thing the show's got going for it right now. https://www.vox.com/2016/5/1/11554428/game-of-thrones-episode-2-recap-home-dogs-ramsay-jon-snow

I don't know how anyone can claim that the show isn't slow paced, when literally nothing happened in the last episode in terms of plot developement. We got a bit of (rather dull) character development, some dead end conversations and that's a wrap. The plot didn't move forward one iota.

[Sycsa]

  This season is racing through plotlines.  Not sure what you are talking about.  Yeah, last season was slow, but not this season.

Episode 3, scene by scene:

1. Jon gets up, dull, clichéd conversation, dick joke.
2. Samwell on a boat, barf, nothing happens.
3. Flashback, kickass swordfight, surprising revelation about Ned's character. The only truly good scene in the entire episode.
4. Dany, pointless chatter with the dothraki widows.
5. Lord Varys, boring talk with a throwaway character.
6. Tyrion, attempted drinking game, funny scene at least.

Ok, I'm not gonna go through the entire episode, but we're at halftime at this point, the only scenes that remain are the annoying High Sparrow, Tommen conversation, the predictable and dull conclusion to Ayra's training, Rickon showing up and Jon getting out of dodge. I guess the last two did forward the plot somewhat after all, but they're tiny developements, plus no one cares about Rickon. The entire episode was filler/buildup.

That's not "racing through plotlines," by all means.

[RuRoRul]

"Plot Development":
- The people at Castle Black found out Jon Snow was alive again. Jon executed his killers, and apparently gave up on bring Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.
- Ramsay apparently gained the support of another major Northern house, and got ahold of Rick on Stark.
- Varys found out who supports the Sons Of the Harpy.
- Danaerys arrived at the temple of the Dosh Khaleen and found out her situation.
- Bran saw a significant past event that, while it may not have directly moved any current plot forward, raised important questions for the future (for those that didn't know about the scene from the books). It also demonstrated the potential for Bran to not only learn about important past events, but perhaps even to communicate with the past.

The episode was not the most packed in terms of "events" that "move the plot forward", I will admit... And I think that that is a good thing. For example consider King's Landing, which I didn't mention in my list of "plot developments" despite it taking up a significant chunk of the episode. Few "big events" really happened in those scenes, however they were crucial for both setting up future events and seeing characters react to current / past ones. (For example we finally saw people ask about the zombified Gregor Clegane, which provided some entertaining moments). This is the kind of stuff that's necessary to make us feel something when "big events" actually happen. We could have just cut to King's Landing and raced through "plot development": Ok, Margaery's released, Zombie Mountain has stormed the sept and that old guy is now dead, oh look now this other old guy has been killed, remember him from that one scene last season? So much plot development.

Episodes like that one probably won't be the "standout episode" you remember when you look back on the season, but they are important for making the season as a whole feel like a meaningful story rather than just a sequence of events comparable to reading a summary. That's also the reason that this show (and many others) are much better enjoyed as a whole rather than this week by week format where each individual episode is scrutinized and you're left thinking about what you didn't get this week... But unfortunately not watching Game Of Thrones as soon as it is released is unfeasible for me 

[cramx3]

Agreed with RuRo, tons of things happened last episode to advance the plot.  Are we watching the same show?  Season 6 is faster paced so far than any other season.

[MirrorMask]

The theories is also one of the reasons why I love the book/show. There's so much depth and storylines intertwined that make discussing theories way more interesting than other books/shows.

Guesses for endpoints of the main characters:

Dany - Queen of the Iron Throne
Tyrion - Hand of the Queen of the Iron Throne
Jorah - Dead (seems likely he will die with grey scale)
Missandei and Grey Worm - One will die, why else do they show a love relationship building?  The other stays on Dany's staff till the end... or also dies
Cersei - Dead
Jon Snow - King of the North
Bran - Not sure where and how he will end up, he will leave the cave, but I don't know how and this is hard to predict
Sansa - Back with Tyrion and Queen of Casterly Rock (I think she will realize that he was the only person who treated her right and will honor their wedding in the end)
Arya - Maybe ends up as Kingsguard or something, I dont think she remains a faceless man, but will obviously become a deadly assassin and she doesn't seem to be the type to settle down as a Lady.
Theon - Dead, probably do something else heroic for the Starks in the end that'll cost him his life
Melisandre - Dead, I just don't see her being there at the end even though she currently sits in a good position with me for saving Jon
Davos - I could see him becoming the Lord of some castle somewhere, if he makes it alive and I hope he does, he will be deserving of something nice
Littlefinger - Dead, his scheming will have to catch up to him one day
Varys - Not sure, maybe dies, but could also stay alive to the end as the Lord of Whispers for the Iron Throne again.
Jamie - I think he dies at some point, he will turn around and actually become a good guy and die in a heroic way, maybe buy actually saving the King (or Queen).
Margery - Dead, I don't see much of a point to her anymore, wouldn't be surprised if the Faith Militant kill her
Benjen - Comes back from wherever he was and is now Lord Commander, or is just dead.

I'm sure I missed some people and also these are not to be taken seriously obviously

I would have played this game as well, but your guesses are very good so now it's hard to come up with better ones.

I'll try some predictions for this season instead...

- Jon Snow will lead an army against Ramsay and will defeat him, the White Walkers have to arrive sooner or later and by the time there's no more need for a villain in the north.
- Dany will either "I am queen Dany stormborn mother of fucking dragons yadda yadda yadda" her way out of the widows' retirement home, or will be saved by Daario and Jorah, who most likely will succumb to greyscale. And of course his dragon will show up to burn shit up at some point.
- Tyrion and Varys will somehow clean up the city and present it to Dany, or either things will go so bad that she will decide "That's it, I'm going to Westeros".
- Tommen will die, a clash against the High Sparrow forces and Camp Incest will happen, can't see Cersei or Jaymie die yet. But if someone croaks, it's Cersei. If Tommen dies Margaery is no longer the queen and she may be in trouble and feel forced to confess to get out of the cell.
- Arya will be allowed back into the world as a faceless assassin. Can't see her training going on into season 7.
- The Ironborn will do whatever they were doing in the books at this point in time.
- Littlefinger must show up somehow to do some more plotting, he won't sit in the Eyrie all season long.
- Sam will learn stuff at the Citadel I guess.
- Bran will see what happens in the Tower of Joy, dunno if he will develop his skills so far that he will actually be able to contact Jon or someone else of his family.
- Sansa will reach Castle Black and probably miss Jon.
- Gendry is still rowing on that goddamn boat.
- Walder Frey is still be gloating in his empty hall. Seriously, where's some proper retribution for the Red Wedding? Roose Bolton is offed as a minor character halfway an episode and Walder wasn't seen since the Red Wedding itself.

[Evermind]

  This season is racing through plotlines.  Not sure what you are talking about.  Yeah, last season was slow, but not this season.

Episode 3, scene by scene:

1. Jon gets up, dull, clichéd conversation, dick joke.
<snip>

Well, to be fair, that was one dick joke I can approve of, because that was totally in line with Tormund's character.

[cramx3]

It was a good joke, not just inline with character, but also a joke for all the woman (real world fans) who are obsessed with Jon. 

[BlackInk]

I'm sorry Sycsa, but it just seems to me that you're confusing "advancing the plot" with "action scenes".

[cramx3]

I'm sorry Sycsa, but it just seems to me that you're confusing "advancing the plot" with "action scenes".

Explain please since I don't recall action scenes besides the flashback scene in front of the Tower of Joy (which advanced the plot of understanding how this all happened "good luck in the future wars" from Sir Arthur Dayne to Ned Stark).  All of sycsa's examples were plot advancements.

[BlackInk]

I'm sorry Sycsa, but it just seems to me that you're confusing "advancing the plot" with "action scenes".

Explain please since I don't recall action scenes besides the flashback scene in front of the Tower of Joy (which advanced the plot of understanding how this all happened "good luck in the future wars" from Sir Arthur Dayne to Ned Stark).  All of sycsa's examples were plot advancements.

Well, yeah, that was the point. He said that that scene was the only good one in the episode, while disregarding all the rest as filler.

[cramx3]

I'm sorry Sycsa, but it just seems to me that you're confusing "advancing the plot" with "action scenes".

Explain please since I don't recall action scenes besides the flashback scene in front of the Tower of Joy (which advanced the plot of understanding how this all happened "good luck in the future wars" from Sir Arthur Dayne to Ned Stark).  All of sycsa's examples were plot advancements.

Well, yeah, that was the point. He said that that scene was the only good one in the episode, while disregarding all the rest as filler.

Im confused, thought you were saying the opposite. So we are in agreement