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General => Archive => Political and Religious => Topic started by: dethklok09 on June 18, 2011, 04:46:03 PM
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Just wondering what do you think god looks at people who kill in his name. I personally am agnostic but if there is a god I honestly think he would condemn the actions. I suspect that alot of responces will be the same but then again i'd like to hear your guys's opinions.
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I would think that it is even worse than merely just killing someone, since it is doing something evil and attributing it to him.
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Well according to biblical history, god ordered plenty of people to be killed himself, so I guess that going strictly by the bible he's pretty ok with that. However, I recognize that putting it that way is mostly unfair since many Christians don't hold a definition of god so strictly to biblical events. But back when I attended church they were telling our little Sunday group about how god told Joshua to kill every man, woman and child in Canaan, so I guess they (church) thought it was alright to kill in god's name.
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Well according to biblical history, god ordered plenty of people to be killed himself, so I guess that going strictly by the bible he's pretty ok with that. However, I recognize that putting it that way is mostly unfair since many Christians don't hold a definition of god so strictly to biblical events. But back when I attended church they were telling our little Sunday group about how god told Joshua to kill every man, woman and child in Canaan, so I guess they (church) thought it was alright to kill in god's name.
Uh I think the OP means those that kill in His name when He never said to do so. And I bet it has happened plenty of times.
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Well according to biblical history, god ordered plenty of people to be killed himself, so I guess that going strictly by the bible he's pretty ok with that. However, I recognize that putting it that way is mostly unfair since many Christians don't hold a definition of god so strictly to biblical events. But back when I attended church they were telling our little Sunday group about how god told Joshua to kill every man, woman and child in Canaan, so I guess they (church) thought it was alright to kill in god's name.
Uh I think the OP means those that kill in His name when He never said to do so. And I bet it has happened plenty of times.
Well I have a feeling that those who DO kill in it's name think that god did indeed tell them to do it.
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I bet they both did. ;)
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Uh I think the OP means those that kill in His name when He never said to do so. And I bet it has happened plenty of times.
I don't think he ever mentioned a condition of whether the killing was actually administered by god or not. Whether god approved of killing at all, under his orders or not, is what I thought we were getting at.
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i think it's a misinterpretation of what god and Jesus said that leads to killing.
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Uh I think the OP means those that kill in His name when He never said to do so. And I bet it has happened plenty of times.
I don't think he ever mentioned a condition of whether the killing was actually administered by god or not. Whether god approved of killing at all, under his orders or not, is what I thought we were getting at.
Surely if God exists and He tells people to kill in His name and they do it, they are not condemned for sin. But those that falsely say that God told them to kill and do it are full of sin because they lied and put God in the hotseat to top it off.
Because of that stark difference (with the obvious assumption of God and sin existing), I think it is very important to know what condition the killer was under, be it by man's lies or God's will.
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Basically I mean killing sort of to please god in a way, (getting rid of nonbelievers or different thinkers). If god told them to do it and condemned them for it would be kinda stupid.
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What is telling people to kill in his name?
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What Jamesman said.
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So it would be OK?
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What about someone killing because he thinks God said to. God didnt say to, but the person is 100% convinced it is gods will?
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@ the OP question: I guess way back when he kinda cared, but these days it doesn't seem to have any consequences if you do so.
rumborak
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I think God would be like Nathan Explosion when his fans kill in the name of Dethklok.
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What about someone killing because he thinks God said to. God didnt say to, but the person is 100% convinced it is gods will?
That person is mistaken. We could hypothesize fictional scenarios all day, but this seems fairly clear. And there seems to be an assumption in this thread that God was once an asshole but changed his mind sometime in last 2000 years - also a fictional scenario.
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Curious what is your take on God hardening the Pharaohs heart?
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Also, good night see you all tomorrow!
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What about someone killing because he thinks God said to. God didnt say to, but the person is 100% convinced it is gods will?
That person is mistaken. We could hypothesize fictional scenarios all day, but this seems fairly clear. And there seems to be an assumption in this thread that God was once an asshole but changed his mind sometime in last 2000 years - also a fictional scenario.
This brings up a good point. What if some schizo heard God speaking to him and told him to go kill his mother. Can he really be faulted for having a mental illness?
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Maybe God gave him that illness.
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What about someone killing because he thinks God said to. God didnt say to, but the person is 100% convinced it is gods will?
That person is mistaken. We could hypothesize fictional scenarios all day, but this seems fairly clear. And there seems to be an assumption in this thread that God was once an asshole but changed his mind sometime in last 2000 years - also a fictional scenario.
This brings up a good point. What if some schizo heard God speaking to him and told him to go kill his mother. Can he really be faulted for having a mental illness?
I don't think it really matters what he imagines is telling him to kill his mother, be it God, Satan, or a leprechaun. He's mentally ill and isn't in a healthy state of mind due to no fault of his own.
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What about someone killing because he thinks God said to. God didnt say to, but the person is 100% convinced it is gods will?
That person is mistaken. We could hypothesize fictional scenarios all day, but this seems fairly clear. And there seems to be an assumption in this thread that God was once an asshole but changed his mind sometime in last 2000 years - also a fictional scenario.
More that he used to be directly engaged with his subjects, but no longer is. I mean, the fact that you say "it is fairly clear" that the man was mistaken shows that you have zero expectations that God interacts directly with people like in the days of Abraham.
rumborak
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What about someone killing because he thinks God said to. God didnt say to, but the person is 100% convinced it is gods will?
That person is mistaken. We could hypothesize fictional scenarios all day, but this seems fairly clear. And there seems to be an assumption in this thread that God was once an asshole but changed his mind sometime in last 2000 years - also a fictional scenario.
More that he used to be directly engaged with his subjects, but no longer is. I mean, the fact that you say "it is fairly clear" that the man was mistaken shows that you have zero expectations that God interacts directly with people like in the days of Abraham.
rumborak
I had in mind the idea that God wouldn't command someone to wantonly slaughter other people, but your point is equally valid. Although, ancient Jews didn't understand God as a special spirit buddy to be regularly conversed with. They had a certain reverence for Him that would prohibit such a concept, and indeed it was only certain people that interacted with God throughout the OT.
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Why would you think that God wouldn't command death? He does it a lot and does it himself. This line of thinking is not consisted.
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Why would you think that God wouldn't command death? He does it a lot and does it himself. This line of thinking is not consisted.
You're equivocating. There's a difference between commanding death and doing so unjustly. But I don't want to have the "God is such a dick" argument. Happy weekend, everyone.
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Why would you think that God wouldn't command death? He does it a lot and does it himself. This line of thinking is not consisted.
You're equivocating. There's a difference between commanding death and doing so unjustly. But I don't want to have the "God is such a dick" argument. Happy weekend, everyone.
I don't think I am. There are passages where he commands death and commits murder very unjustly.
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I guess it would depend on your definition of just. I would imagine that if an ultimate creator of all things did in fact exist, then his simple desire would be by default the most justified thing.
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I guess it would depend on your definition of just. I would imagine that if an ultimate creator of all things did in fact exist, then his simple desire would be by default the most justified thing.
And that is what is called might makes right. I love how all morals are thrown out the window when the acts of God are in question.
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I guess it would depend on your definition of just. I would imagine that if an ultimate creator of all things did in fact exist, then his simple desire would be by default the most justified thing.
And that is what is called might makes right. I love how all morals are thrown out the window when the acts of God are in question.
I don't think he's actually endorsing that argument, and I'm not either.
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I guess it would depend on your definition of just. I would imagine that if an ultimate creator of all things did in fact exist, then his simple desire would be by default the most justified thing.
And that is what is called might makes right. I love how all morals are thrown out the window when the acts of God are in question.
I don't think he's actually endorsing that argument, and I'm not either.
Of course I'm not, being agnostic and all, but I've heard others use it.
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if you are merely pointing it out Adami, that is fair enough. A person whom is making the argument that God created the universe therefore he can do what he pleases with it. Is most certainly making either a master/slave argument or a might makes right. I see no alternatives.
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I guess it would depend on your definition of just. I would imagine that if an ultimate creator of all things did in fact exist, then his simple desire would be by default the most justified thing.
And that is what is called might makes right. I love how all morals are thrown out the window when the acts of God are in question.
I don't think he's actually endorsing that argument, and I'm not either.
Of course I'm not, being agnostic and all, but I've heard others use it.
Me too - it's irritating. Cracking a history book, even the Old Testament, is too much to ask of the typical believer. :\
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Killing is Killing whether he sanctions it or not, David was stopped from building a temple for him because he was a man of war
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It depends on what god you're talking about. I'm sure every god out there has a different point of view. Or, maybe you should ask the people who invented the gods.
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Well it's based on what your view of a god or possible god. Personally I do not believe in one, but I can think of what how he would look upon this, in regards to what I think god would be.
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Killing is Killing whether he sanctions it or not, David was stopped from building a temple for him because he was a man of war
I'd say it was because he committed adultery and covered up the sin with the war (by sending the husband to the front-line to be killed). Sure, the chronicles list a reason as "he shed much blood" but surely God couldn't have hated David only for leading wars that God ordered him to participate in. And there'd already been several examples of God being displeased with David for wanton killing of various people and for having participated in at least one rape.
It's a stretch to say it was because he was a man of war.