Author Topic: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)  (Read 11274 times)

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Online devieira73

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #140 on: February 28, 2024, 06:54:24 AM »
Now, THIS ONE I really like!

Agreed, although I already liked the first two singles. A bit more Planet X influenced and I found Dino's vocals more on point on this one.
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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #142 on: February 28, 2024, 08:58:25 AM »
Been following since the first single, but haven't had much chance to chime in.  3 singles in, I mean, yeah, you could nitpick and criticize.  But let's focus on the positive.  So I'll start with my positive observations about the band:
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Offline goo-goo

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #143 on: February 28, 2024, 01:52:35 PM »
Been following since the first single, but haven't had much chance to chime in.  3 singles in, I mean, yeah, you could nitpick and criticize.  But let's focus on the positive.  So I'll start with my positive observations about the band:

Did you mean to type something after band? or is the blank space your observations? lol  ;D


Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #144 on: February 28, 2024, 02:27:05 PM »
Been following since the first single, but haven't had much chance to chime in.  3 singles in, I mean, yeah, you could nitpick and criticize.  But let's focus on the positive.  So I'll start with my positive observations about the band:
Did you mean to type something after band? or is the blank space your observations? lol  ;D
You don't know Bosk very well, do you?   :lol
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Offline Schurftkut

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #145 on: February 28, 2024, 03:30:25 PM »
I do agree with Bosk, especially with

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Offline NoFred

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #147 on: February 28, 2024, 10:42:43 PM »
I am really not hearing the Overture 1928 thing. I've listened to both back several times and I'm totally missing it. Is it literally just 2 notes in the guitar solo we're hearing? Cos that could be anything.

3:08 in Over Again

And, funny enough, 3:08 in Overture 1928

This is fantastic haha. Just trying these singles out, kind of waiting for the full release after reading reviews. Not boring, but hoping there’s at least one track that I can point to when sharing their music

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #148 on: March 09, 2024, 05:19:36 AM »
https://youtu.be/jD_kuiyKEpQ?si=grFDbSfQm_Kt1KJl
Good interview, interesting information about the band's name, the other WGD, even about Derek's perception when MP begun to head back to DT.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 06:05:33 AM by devieira73 »
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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #149 on: March 09, 2024, 07:20:44 AM »
so Bumble is suggesting that MP was busy getting back into DT during corona already

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #150 on: March 09, 2024, 07:39:08 AM »
I understood that he suggested at least that DS knew that MP was already trying more effectively to return to DT, hence, MP already lost interest on continuing with SoA. Well, I guess you meant busy in this sense.
BTW, the name of the band came from the old Star Trek episode.  :tup
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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #151 on: March 09, 2024, 09:49:37 AM »
Bumblefoot was acting a little butt hurt. He wouldn't mention MP by name where all he had to say was that MP had plans to go back to DT and leave it at that. He wasn't horrible and I think he's an amazing talent and a good guy but................

I like the new release but I have a hard time getting on board with DS. Amazing talent but he just looks like a jerk when he's playing.

Offline nobloodyname

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #152 on: March 09, 2024, 10:27:00 AM »
Bumblefoot was acting a little butt hurt. He wouldn't mention MP by name where all he had to say was that MP had plans to go back to DT and leave it at that. He wasn't horrible and I think he's an amazing talent and a good guy but................


I felt exactly the same way as you did, watching that.
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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #153 on: March 09, 2024, 11:36:52 AM »
I think it's natural for them to feel a little betrayed since MP wasn't as invested in SoA as they were, because he was apparently trying to get back to DT. I don't blame them for feeling this way. It's not the same situation, but see Sepultura's harsh statement regarding Eloy's departure.
But those somewhat passive-aggressive comments that don't mention who it is, letting everyone knows who it is, are always ridiculous. A lot of people do this when they're upset with someonelse, unfortunately. Better say anything.
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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #154 on: March 09, 2024, 01:13:26 PM »
But MP did it also with Amob…he called it “planting seeds and see what grows”. It wouldn’t be the first time MP pulls something like this. I don’t believe MP was trying to get back in the band during the pandemic though.

Momentum is a very important thing in bands and they lost it when the pandemic hit. While I don’t blame MP for the SoA situation, bumblefoot at some point was also reducing his touring activities becuase it was taking a toll on him physically and mentally. He said it, IIRC, a bit before Sons of Apollo, while he was doing a lot of solo shows.

In my opinion, Sons of Apollo wasn’t interesting for me musically. I prefer what I’ve heard so far from WGD.

Offline Kocak

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #155 on: March 09, 2024, 01:56:03 PM »
so Bumble is suggesting that MP was busy getting back into DT during corona already

MM had a similar, no name mentioning comment in the vein of: "He had been trying to get back in for a while."

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #156 on: March 09, 2024, 02:07:03 PM »
so Bumble is suggesting that MP was busy getting back into DT during corona already
MM had a similar, no name mentioning comment in the vein of: "He had been trying to get back in for a while."
I don't recall him actually saying that. Not doubting you but can you provide the link where he did?
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline Kocak

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #157 on: March 09, 2024, 02:14:14 PM »
But MP did it also with Amob…he called it “planting seeds and see what grows”. It wouldn’t be the first time MP pulls something like this. I don’t believe MP was trying to get back in the band during the pandemic though.

Momentum is a very important thing in bands and they lost it when the pandemic hit. While I don’t blame MP for the SoA situation, bumblefoot at some point was also reducing his touring activities becuase it was taking a toll on him physically and mentally. He said it, IIRC, a bit before Sons of Apollo, while he was doing a lot of solo shows.

In my opinion, Sons of Apollo wasn’t interesting for me musically. I prefer what I’ve heard so far from WGD.

I think the root of the problem here is the way MP tends to promote bands when he first gets into them. With AMob, he wanted to replicate the arena rock/metal thing that he experienced with Avenged Sevenfold, but it did not end up happening. At the time, when he was hyping the band up, as with any other project of his, he talked about the brotherhood, how it feels like the early days of Dream Theater. MP tends to be better at fan engagement and marketing, compared to other members of his "projects", and from my personal experience in the music industry, I have a feeling that most musicians just tend to speak their mind and fan engagement forward characters like MP are actually a minority, so his words, while for marketing and hype purposes, hold value for the other members of his "projects".

Same thing holds true for SoA. MP presented it as a "real band", "focus for all of them", again, the brotherhood. Professional music making, in a band setting, is a job. They're not doing this for fun. For some, it's an incredibly hard process. So, when someone talks like this but ends up jumping ship, it's gotta hurt a little.

Also, my guess is that MP expects full commitment, from everyone who is involved, to the thing that he is committed to at any given time. John Sykes thing ended up getting canned because he and Sheehan were ready to go, but Sykes was not etc. It seems to me that he has no trouble letting go when others are ready to go all in. When he's invested in it, it's a brotherhood, but when he isn't, he has other commitments. I remember this interview of his, during the infancy of SoA. He had said something along the lines of "I have been taking a backseat with all my other bands, but I need something that I can lead now and with SoA, Derek and I are the leaders." He just expected others to go along with it. Similar to how he expected the DT guys to follow him to a hiatus.

I understand why the rest of SoA might be bitter, barring Sheehan. He's too old to give a crap about his kind of thing, IMO.

Offline Kocak

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #158 on: March 09, 2024, 02:15:23 PM »
so Bumble is suggesting that MP was busy getting back into DT during corona already
MM had a similar, no name mentioning comment in the vein of: "He had been trying to get back in for a while."
I don't recall him actually saying that. Not doubting you but can you provide the link where he did?

https://karkpost.com/mike-mangini-reveals-a-very-easy-way-to-deal-with-being-replaced-by-mike-portnoy/

Edit: I misremembered the interview. It was this one instead. Sorry.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 02:21:57 PM by Kocak »

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #159 on: March 09, 2024, 02:31:20 PM »
so Bumble is suggesting that MP was busy getting back into DT during corona already
MM had a similar, no name mentioning comment in the vein of: "He had been trying to get back in for a while."
I don't recall him actually saying that. Not doubting you but can you provide the link where he did?

https://karkpost.com/mike-mangini-reveals-a-very-easy-way-to-deal-with-being-replaced-by-mike-portnoy/

Edit: I misremembered the interview. It was this one instead. Sorry.
Ah yeah - I recall that interview. Wasn't very specific and no timetable was even suggested, but yeah, he does hint that he had sensed something might have been in the works for a while.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline DTwwbwMP

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #160 on: March 09, 2024, 05:14:27 PM »
so Bumble is suggesting that MP was busy getting back into DT during corona already.

Bumble has the right to feel slighted. I completely get it. BUT I saw the situation as this. Bumble and Derek wanted to do the 3rd SOA album DURING LOCKDOWN, but MP HAS STATED vehemently that he had no intention of ever recording any album for ANY band like that. Recording through file sharing is not Mike' thing. He just doesn't like it. Now, I doubt seeds of re-entering DT were starting to really grow AT THAT POINT, but Derek's "feeling" that SOA was over had more to do with MP' not wanting to record SOA 3 at that point. Derek probably felt, Mike' bailing on me again. I could be totally off base here, but the fact that MP had no issue in fulfilling SOA's touring commitment (which at that point, the seeds of DT were probably blooming) shows me that Derek may have misread the situation EVEN THOUGH he turned out to be right!

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #161 on: March 09, 2024, 05:19:36 PM »
That makes more sense really, and is kinda how I saw it as well.  To be honest, I hadn't actually given it that much thought, but I totally get not wanting to record an album remotely.  Some folks are fine with collaborating via file sharing, but not Mike.  At least the initial jamming out of the tunes should be done in real time.

Offline Kocak

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #162 on: March 10, 2024, 06:18:34 AM »
so Bumble is suggesting that MP was busy getting back into DT during corona already.

Bumble has the right to feel slighted. I completely get it. BUT I saw the situation as this. Bumble and Derek wanted to do the 3rd SOA album DURING LOCKDOWN, but MP HAS STATED vehemently that he had no intention of ever recording any album for ANY band like that. Recording through file sharing is not Mike' thing. He just doesn't like it. Now, I doubt seeds of re-entering DT were starting to really grow AT THAT POINT, but Derek's "feeling" that SOA was over had more to do with MP' not wanting to record SOA 3 at that point. Derek probably felt, Mike' bailing on me again. I could be totally off base here, but the fact that MP had no issue in fulfilling SOA's touring commitment (which at that point, the seeds of DT were probably blooming) shows me that Derek may have misread the situation EVEN THOUGH he turned out to be right!

This was true up until the mid-2010's, but, right now, MP does have a full on home studio and a number of his appearances on albums were recorded in this studio, including the Metal Allegiance albums. He has stated a preference for writing in the studio in the past, but, since the mid-2010's, he does record at home and write through file sharing occasionally. And he uses one of Max Portnoy's ex-bandmates as an engineer, I believe.

Offline Kocak

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #163 on: March 10, 2024, 06:20:03 AM »
so Bumble is suggesting that MP was busy getting back into DT during corona already.

Bumble has the right to feel slighted. I completely get it. BUT I saw the situation as this. Bumble and Derek wanted to do the 3rd SOA album DURING LOCKDOWN, but MP HAS STATED vehemently that he had no intention of ever recording any album for ANY band like that. Recording through file sharing is not Mike' thing. He just doesn't like it. Now, I doubt seeds of re-entering DT were starting to really grow AT THAT POINT, but Derek's "feeling" that SOA was over had more to do with MP' not wanting to record SOA 3 at that point. Derek probably felt, Mike' bailing on me again. I could be totally off base here, but the fact that MP had no issue in fulfilling SOA's touring commitment (which at that point, the seeds of DT were probably blooming) shows me that Derek may have misread the situation EVEN THOUGH he turned out to be right!

This was true up until the mid-2010's, but, right now, MP does have a full on home studio and a number of his appearances on albums were recorded in this studio, including the Metal Allegiance albums. He has stated a preference for writing in the studio in the past, but, since the mid-2010's, he does record at home and write through file sharing occasionally. And he uses one of Max Portnoy's ex-bandmates as an engineer, I believe.

Edit: Adding a home studio recording of MP: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjxpMCiUI7Q

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #164 on: March 10, 2024, 08:48:17 AM »
I think people here are distinguishing composing and recording from distance. I understand that Mike doesn't like at all to compose from distance (at least in its initial stages), but doesn't mind to record. So, considering this, now I also think maybe Derek misinterpreted Mike refusing to make a SOA3 during the Covid as a sign of him already working on returnig to DT. I also think, although surely his return to DT didn't happen all of a sudden on October 2023, 2020 was too early for that.
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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #165 on: March 10, 2024, 09:33:38 AM »
There are a couple undeniable aspects to the SOA situation from my perspective. Turning that band into a profitable, viable venture was going to take some years AND a strong possibility exists that, even then, it may not work. They were playing shows to tiny crowds. Given MP's status and his history, those shows had to be difficult and even depressing. You take into account MP's age and say, maybe in 10 years SOA starts paying the bills...well, you've got a couple years left before you're nearly 70? I think he saw the writing on the wall and it was a primary deciding factor.

WGD is never going to be drawing big crowds or making good money either. Period. And all of us have obligations to pay our bills and support our families. You can go into any venture and be fully committed but then reality sets in, variables change - like Covid - and then you have to reassess and make new plans. That's life 101.


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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #166 on: March 11, 2024, 10:30:23 AM »
so Bumble is suggesting that MP was busy getting back into DT during corona already

MM had a similar, no name mentioning comment in the vein of: "He had been trying to get back in for a while."

I think a lot of this is the fallacy that hindsight is actually 20/20 and people looking for patterns.  By this standard, "Shattered Fortress" is him  "trying to get back in for a while".  LTE is him "trying to get back in for a while".   Working with John in the studio is him "trying to get back in for a while".   Touring with John is him "trying to get back in for a while".   I mean, we're never going to know, at least not until the autobiographies start coming. 

Why not let it just be?   He's not in SOA, and hasn't been for a while (it surprised NO ONE when they said it was done, and Mike was very careful not to commit to ANYTHING other than the immediate dates when that South American "tour" was announced. 

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #167 on: March 11, 2024, 10:53:08 AM »
There are a couple undeniable aspects to the SOA situation from my perspective. Turning that band into a profitable, viable venture was going to take some years AND a strong possibility exists that, even then, it may not work. They were playing shows to tiny crowds. Given MP's status and his history, those shows had to be difficult and even depressing. You take into account MP's age and say, maybe in 10 years SOA starts paying the bills...well, you've got a couple years left before you're nearly 70? I think he saw the writing on the wall and it was a primary deciding factor.

WGD is never going to be drawing big crowds or making good money either. Period. And all of us have obligations to pay our bills and support our families. You can go into any venture and be fully committed but then reality sets in, variables change - like Covid - and then you have to reassess and make new plans. That's life 101.

What bands has MP been playing in that were doing bigger venues than SOA?  From my perspective, MP's been playing the similar venues in NYC regardless of what band since he left DT (not including Avenged Sevenfold).  I don't think SOA or WGD are going to be "big" but they could both be career bands, as in, a band they can be in full time to have a livable income.  ANother example, Mr Big is playing similar sized venues in the US. 

I think the issue is for any of these bands to get "big" is they need to hit a market of new fans.  The prog metal market is pretty small.  It's harder for this type of music to play bigger venues than SOA had been playing.  So both of these bands need or will need to grasp an audience beyond their already established reach.   Sadly for SOA, they alienated some people before even releasing their first album and then couldn't put their money where their mouth is with making consistent good music.

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #168 on: March 11, 2024, 03:41:34 PM »
What bands has MP been playing in that were doing bigger venues than SOA? 
 

Agreed. As a matter of fact, in the NY/NJ market, at least, I felt SOA was doing VERY WELL for a prog metal band.

Sadly for SOA, they alienated some people before even releasing their first album....

Agreed, thanks, Derek! :loser: :facepalm:

...and then couldn't put their money where their mouth is with making consistent good music.

This is where we disagree. I REALLY LIKED BOTH SOA albums. ;)

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #169 on: March 15, 2024, 12:24:49 PM »
Got my copy of the album and something I noticed in the liner notes, Bumblefoot thanks JSS and lots of other people but no mention of Billy or MP. Seems like a good friendship might have been fractured with the falling apart of that band.

Could be reading too much into it, but there seems to be a rift there now.
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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #170 on: March 15, 2024, 12:43:48 PM »
First run through complete, and while it's a bit brutal for my tastes, I kind of liked it.  :mehlin

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #171 on: March 15, 2024, 12:44:14 PM »
Bumblefoot is in another band with Soto (Art of Anarchy), so I doubt he was included merely because of their joint past with SoA. So no need to read more into the other two guys being absent.
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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #172 on: March 15, 2024, 01:03:37 PM »
Got my copy of the album and something I noticed in the liner notes, Bumblefoot thanks JSS and lots of other people but no mention of Billy or MP. Seems like a good friendship might have been fractured with the falling apart of that band.

Could be reading too much into it, but there seems to be a rift there now.

Yeah, there's little doubt in my mind there's a rift between them.  It's not hard to imagine either.  Someone like MP is well established and has multiple projects that bring in income.  Ron, who I like a lot, doesn't really have any of that.  At least not close to the scale that MP does.  So when they start a new band thats claimed to be everyone's main band, and it folds after two albums due to no fault of Ron's, I can see why he'd be mad.  His livelihood likely took a bigger hit from that change and shit gets very personal very quick when you feel like someone's decision impacts your bottom line.  Just my thoughts.

I'm curious, has DS hinted at any hostility towards MP since SOA disbanded?

Bumblefoot is in another band with Soto (Art of Anarchy), so I doubt he was included merely because of their joint past with SoA. So no need to read more into the other two guys being absent.

Art of Anarchy are playing a show in NJ in a couple weeks.  Maybe I should check it out.  I didn't love the single they released recently though.

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #173 on: March 15, 2024, 01:11:04 PM »


Art of Anarchy are playing a show in NJ in a couple weeks.  Maybe I should check it out.  I didn't love the single they released recently though.

I can get you a photo pass, if you want?

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Re: Whom Gods Destroy (feat. Bumblefoot, Dino Jelusick, Derek Sherinian)
« Reply #174 on: March 15, 2024, 01:12:47 PM »
I like the non-single tracks so far. Find my way back is great. Also, I feel that this album is a lot more guitar-forward than I expected it to be.