Look, I get that you don't like the guy. But a bunch of what you wrote is just flat-out wrong.
No, it's not. And yes, I do not like the guy. But unlike you, who is a hardcore Warriors fan and rooting in a homer-ish way for your team (not meant in a mean way, we all do it with our teams), I am looking at him objectively.
The Warriors offense and defense are often run by and through Green when he is on the floor. He runs, coordinates, and drives what happens on the floor. That is something that doesn't show up in the stats and may not be apparent to the casual observer. But the Warriors run pretty sophisticated and very kinetic offensive and defensive schemes, and there just aren't tons of players out there that can run something like that, and even fewer who can run it as well as Green has. That isn't what a "rotation player" does.
I said he'd be a rotation player on any other NBA team. YES, for the WARRIORS, that is his role. He essentially acts as a point-forward. Luka Doncic does it for the Mavericks. Lebron does it for the Lakers. But unlike those two guys (who are two of many) who have great two-way ability, Green is very limited offensively, and would be exposed if he was a No. 2 option on a team. Therefore, while an elite defender, and good passer, he wouldn't be a "star" for anyone else. He's a "star" because he's surrounded by three HOF players that help hide Green's shortcomings as a player.
He doesn't just pass. Again, he often runs the offense. His gift as an exceptional passer is one of the things that allows him to do that. But it's just one piece of the puzzle. Similar on defense. The common "below average offensively" also misses the mark. In terms of scoring, yes. But (1) his scoring (and other offensive stats) are down this season. A lot of that is attributable to missing a lot of time due to the two injuries and playing hurt when he has been playing. Obviously, if his stats stay down, that's a different story. But his offensive stats this season aren't reflective of his value. And (2) being a primary scorer isn't his role. And it shouldn't be on a team with Curry, Klay, and KD. And while you are right that he wouldn't be a 1 or a 2 offensively on most teams (in terms of scoring), again, that isn't his role and it isn't where he brings value. He absolutely would have higher point totals on another team where you don't have 3 of the best scorers in the league on the same team. But regardless, putting up points himself is not where he brings value.
Bosk -- he can't shoot. Never could. He gets a ton of open looks, and for the last three years, his shooting has been terrible. Imagine what would happen if he didn't get those open looks (which would happen if he played on most other teams)? CLANG. CLANG.
And again I say - yes, he's a point forward and runs the offense. A LOT of guys do it, and do it as well, or better. Giannis does it in Milwaukee too. So this point you are hammering home like Green is this unique player is a load of bologna. He does what he does for THE WARRIORS very well. But he's nothing special except for defensively.
Role player? Yes. "Good" role player? I think "exceptional" role player is a better description and more accurately backed up by what he does.
See above. Yes, a good role player. A guy along the lines of...hmm. In past eras, I'd call him Anthony Mason. A defensive PF who runs the floor and directs the offense, but can be a liability offensively. That's what Green is. He just does it on an iconic team, so Green is held in high regard by fans of that team. Anyone looking at him objectively, again, sees a great defensive player with good passing skills, that would be exposed offensively on just about any other team in the league.
Offensively, yeah, he's the "fourth option" in terms of scoring. Again, that misses the point.
No, it doesn't. I see that point. He's the fourth best player (I'd say FIFTH now, with Cousins) on a team.
Defensively, I'm not sure what "fourth option" means. At any given time, he is easily the #1 or #2 best defender the Warriors have on the floor. And his injuries and missed time this season go a long way in explaining why there has been such a noticeable dropoff in their defense this season from what they have done the past 5 seasons with him at or nearer to full strength.
Excuses. He's fat and out of shape, and now finally getting himself right. He's not the fourth option on defense. He's clearly the team's best defender. I would never deny Green's importance, defensively. But he's a liability on offense. Period.
Honestly, I think your assessment of Green is entirely clouded by your bias against him and your lack of knowledge of what he actually does for the team. And as to the latter, that isn't a dig at all. He's just one of those guys whose primary value may not be as obvious to someone who does not actively follow the team and understand how they function and why.
Bosk - MY assessment of Green is clouded? You're the fan, the homer for him. I have likely seen more Warriors games than you this year, because I'm a hoops junkie who watches games every night. I've seen probably 25-30 Warriors games, in-full, this season. I know what Green does and the role he plays. I've also played and coached at the college level. I'm just not blinded like a Warriors fan. Green is a great defender. NO DOUBT. But he's not a max player (like he thinks he is), and he would be woefully incapable of leading a team that didn't have the shooting talent GS does. Without that, Green is a rotational piece that is an elite defender and good passer that can play point-forward. Take the ball out of his hands, and he's a liability, completely, on the offense.
You are losing this oral argument counselor.
p.s. Nekov, I've said countless times Green is a beast of a defender and good passer. But put him on a team like...Memphis. Or even a team like Detroit. A team without three great shooters. Watch what happens when they close out on Green on the offensive end. Particularly if Green is not running point. Green can't shoot, and his lack of offensive moves is extremely glaring. A great, great defender, whose shortcomings would be exposed outside of Golden State.
And I want to be clear - AT NO TIME DID I SAY THAT GREEN IS A BAD PLAYER. I said he's an ELITE DEFENDER and GOOD PASSER that orchestrates the offense. But as TheOutlawXanadu just said:
He probably can't lift a crap team to respectability by himself, but stick him on a team with good players, and he will take you from good to great.He probably can't lift a crap team to respectability by himself, but stick him on a team with good players, and he will take you from good to great.
Exactly this. But I'd swap out "good players" with "good SHOOTERS." He needs people around him that can shoot, otherwise his inability on the offensive end will hurt you. That's all masked in Golden STate because of the level of shooters he plays with (now getting even better with Boogie).