Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Prog Snob]

These Walls = very good song. The purpose makes it much better. 

[WheyWaffles]

A lot of bands have the other mics too low in the mix when playing live. JP probably is singing along, you just can't hear him.

I think that was probably a decision made while mixing the DVD/BD.  It's not as though JP's vocals got lost somewhere between his mic and the soundboard.  Having him audible on the DVD/BD was an option.  I wish they'd opted for it to the detriment of "perfection."

I'm sure he knows he can't sing. The Wither demo is full of noticeable auto tune, and there's the Spirit Carries On demo.

Indeed, which begs the question "Why have him sing at all when you knew you were going to cut his vocals from the final mix from the beginning?"

[Zook]

A lot of bands have the other mics too low in the mix when playing live. JP probably is singing along, you just can't hear him.

I think that was probably a decision made while mixing the DVD/BD.  It's not as though JP's vocals got lost somewhere between his mic and the soundboard.  Having him audible on the DVD/BD was an option.  I wish they'd opted for it to the detriment of "perfection."

I'm sure he knows he can't sing. The Wither demo is full of noticeable auto tune, and there's the Spirit Carries On demo.

Indeed, which begs the question "Why have him sing at all when you knew you were going to cut his vocals from the final mix from the beginning?"

I'm not sure DT had any say in the mixing of the live audio, or else JR would probably be louder.

[KevShmev]

Controversial opinion: I'd rather watch/listen to JP sing off-key (like in the old days) than lip-sync virtually everything.

I feel like I'm watching a fucking Megadeth DVD trying to enjoy Luna Park here.  Every time they show him with his exaggerated facial expressions suggestive of "I'm really singing guys, honest" it breaks my immersion and makes me want to just watch Enchant's Live At Last instead.  Aside from varied setlists, this is the only reason I ever find myself missing MP.  It may not matter as much to most fans, but this hugely affects the live experience for me to the point where I doubt I'll watch Luna Park again.

This was already covered in another thread, so, to reiterate what I said there:

-There is no evidence that JP is lip-synching.
-He is most likely singing, but his mic is turned way down so you don't really hear him, especially since he is singing along with a triggered vocal that is at normal volume.  It's what Rush does when Alex Lifeson sings 99% of the time, and is most likely what DT did here.

[Onno]

Here's my contribution to the thread;

DT12 is DT's weakest album.

FTFM

onNO

 

[wolfking]

Along for the Ride, to me, is in the same boat as These Walls and The Answer Lies Within: songs that aren't bad by any means and are enjoyable enough in the context of their respective albums, but very little about any of them is particularly memorable or noteworthy.

These Walls would make my DT Top 10.

These Walls is my #1 

Really?

[Enalya]

- The Shaman-like and heavenly vocals in Bridges In The Sky are awesome
- On The Backs Of Angels has boring vocals
- Innocence Faded is a bit cheesy
- The keyboard solo at the start of 8VM is too lenghty
- The cookie-monster vocal part in A Nightmare To Remember is a bit ridiculous (although the song is in my top 3)
- Space-Dye Vest is an amazing song
 

Don't get me wrong, there is MUCH I love of DT.

[nightmare_cinema]

- Innocence Faded is a bit cheesy
- The cookie-monster vocal part in A Nightmare To Remember is a bit ridiculous (although the song is in my top 3)
- Space-Dye Vest is an amazing song

I thought all of these were pretty much the general consensus? Innocent Faded is mega cheesy, and Space-Dye Vest is an incredible song! 

[?]

- Space-Dye Vest is an amazing song

I like you.

[Outcrier]

A good metric for greatest band could be what I suggested: musicianship and songwriting, perhaps measured over a period of time (to determine consistency). I think DT is the greatest band in all these respects. They have an exceedingly high level of musicianship as well as superb songwriting, and DT12 is every bit as excellent in these respects as Awake. All of these traits, they have more of than any other band of which I know. That's why I think they're the greatest band ever.

Consistency of amazing material released judged by all types of people, not only people who love DT or love prog metal (not biased opinions then)? Generally, Images, Scenes, Awake, Six Degrees and ToT or 8V maybe are the most well rated DT albums, the rest being rated not BAD but not very good too and, in my opinion, i agree with it as i don't think there's anything special in WDADU, FII, SC, BC, ADTOE or DT12 (not as a whole). Majority, people think that DT is above average but not nearly consistent as many other bands, but of course this might be very dumb way to see it as you can like more a style or album than a entire other band discography.

[Prog Snob]

- Innocence Faded is a bit cheesy
- The cookie-monster vocal part in A Nightmare To Remember is a bit ridiculous (although the song is in my top 3)
- Space-Dye Vest is an amazing song

I thought all of these were pretty much the general consensus? Innocent Faded is mega cheesy, and Space-Dye Vest is an incredible song! 

I never found IF to be cheesy.  hmmmmm

[Enalya]

- Innocence Faded is a bit cheesy
- The cookie-monster vocal part in A Nightmare To Remember is a bit ridiculous (although the song is in my top 3)
- Space-Dye Vest is an amazing song

I thought all of these were pretty much the general consensus? Innocent Faded is mega cheesy, and Space-Dye Vest is an incredible song! 

Oh okay, I'm fine with that

[425]

Consistency of amazing material released judged by all types of people, not only people who love DT or love prog metal (not biased opinions then)? Generally, Images, Scenes, Awake, Six Degrees and ToT or 8V maybe are the most well rated DT albums, the rest being rated not BAD but not very good too and, in my opinion, i agree with it as i don't think there's anything special in WDADU, FII, SC, BC, ADTOE or DT12 (not as a whole). Majority, people think that DT is above average but not nearly consistent as many other bands, but of course this might be very dumb way to see it as you can like more a style or album than a entire other band discography.

There is not a single band in the world that has consistently amazing material as judged by all types of people. Not one. For one thing, there are plenty of classical snobs who would consider anything written by what we refer to when we talk about a band to be garbage.

A majority of people don't think ANYTHING about DT because a majority of people have never heard of them!

What I'm trying to say is that you should to stop acting like we can all get together and have a merry conversation and all agree on what the greatest bands are. You're not going to convince me that DT isn't the greatest by pointing to record sales and you're not going to convince someone who thinks the Beatles were terrible songwriters otherwise by pointing to the number of artists claiming them as influences.

Unless you have a method for judging music objectively (this means: not by majority opinion, since that has no basis independent of the judgements that inform these opinions), you should accept that the title of "greatest band" has the implicit suffix "to me."

Also: "an unbiased opinion" is a contradiction in terms. The opinions of prog fans are biased in favor of prog, but the opinions of listeners to top 40 radio are biased in favor of the pop music of the day. Thus is the nature of opinions.

[Outcrier]

There is not a single band in the world that has consistently amazing material as judged by all types of people.

All types of people i meant people that really care about music.
There's gonna be blind DT fans and haters of course but all bands have, the good is that there will be people who will honestly review it.

[Outcrier]

In my personal opinion, Dream Theater is one of the greatest, if not the single greatest, band of all time. I bet there are a lot of people on this forum who agree with me. I'm not saying you have to agree, but seriously, you're saying that it's "crazy" to even state such an opinion?

Sorry, i put my opinion together on this one. Crazy i meant not the music but other things like influency and creativity... this way, would be crazy to put DT in a higher place than bands like Beatles or Floyd.
But in the matter of what music we like more, anything can happen of course... isn't crazy to say DT is the greatest, it's a opinion anyway

[TheGreatPretender]

The whole discussion about defining the greatness of a band is kind of a dead end. Even by success standards. I could argue that DT simply came out at the wrong time. I could argue that had they been around in the 1960s or 70s, they would've been the most successful band to have ever existed. Even if their music would have been different because they would have had different influences, the type of skill and musicianship, in combination with the type of creativity that they possess would probably have yielded something truly great that would've left bands like Zepplin in the dust. Instead, the time when they did come out was pretty bad for their genre of music, what with the proliferation of Grunge, and popular Metal evolving into the genres of Groove Metal and Nu Metal. One could easily blame those factors for the fact that DT never got the kind of popularity and recognition I think they rightfully deserved.
By the same basis, I could argue that had the musicians from Led Zepplin (or Beatles) been a couple generations late, coming out in early 90s, for example, their style of music would have probably never been really noticed. They came out in the hey day of Rock'n'Roll and Hard Rock, not to mention, before the time when things like tape trading or music downloading existed, so naturally they would've yielded higher album sales, because at the time, if people wanted to listen to their music, there would have been little choice.
And I'm not even going to bother talking about how the different decades, different sociological factors dictate how certain types of music might be received in those eras, because that would be a long and drawn out thesis.

Of course, it's all hypothetical speculation, and we could only guess, so it's fun at best to imagine "what if" but otherwise pointless. Bottom line, when it comes to a band's success and cultural impact, there are so many factors at play that it's simply unfair to say, "They were successful just because they were a truly great band. And DT isn't as great of a band, as proven by their success and impact."

[Lucidity]

- The Shaman-like and heavenly vocals in Bridges In The Sky are awesome

So glad someone's saying this. I've heard a lot of people complain about how much they hate the intro, but I love it. It sets the scene for the rest of the song in a great, atmospheric way.

[WheyWaffles]

Controversial opinion: I'd rather watch/listen to JP sing off-key (like in the old days) than lip-sync virtually everything.

I feel like I'm watching a fucking Megadeth DVD trying to enjoy Luna Park here.  Every time they show him with his exaggerated facial expressions suggestive of "I'm really singing guys, honest" it breaks my immersion and makes me want to just watch Enchant's Live At Last instead.  Aside from varied setlists, this is the only reason I ever find myself missing MP.  It may not matter as much to most fans, but this hugely affects the live experience for me to the point where I doubt I'll watch Luna Park again.

This was already covered in another thread, so, to reiterate what I said there:

-There is no evidence that JP is lip-synching.
-He is most likely singing, but his mic is turned way down so you don't really hear him, especially since he is singing along with a triggered vocal that is at normal volume.  It's what Rush does when Alex Lifeson sings 99% of the time, and is most likely what DT did here.

I roughly stated my issues with that previously.

1. It's no surprise to the band that JP isn't a good singer.  They likely knew they would be cutting his mic from the final mix beforehand.
2. Even if 1. isn't the case, they certainly knew when putting together the DVD/BD that JP would be cut from the mix.  Why, then, must they cut to him virtually every single time he sings?  The production emphasizes his backing vocals, and they're nowhere to be heard.

If there was some sort of shock among the production team that his backing vocals turned out poor, then don't treat the DVD/BD audience like fools who don't realize he's nowhere in the mix by showing him every time he sings.

The fact that they show JP singing so much leads me to believe someone in production wanted to contribute to the illusion that we're actually hearing his voice on the DVD/BD, and shockingly, it's probably worked for some viewers.  This isn't as bad as modern Megadeth DVDs where every shred of singing has been recorded in a studio after the concert, but I find both approaches shatter my sense of immersion in the same way.

[Destiny Of Chaos]

Maybe it's about time for me also to make a contribution to this thread:

Along For The Ride is not only the worst ballad DT has ever done, its also one of/ if not THE worst song they have ever done.

For me, the new album goes from Surrender to Reason to Illumination Theory.

[Zook]

Maybe it's about time for me also to make a contribution to this thread:

Along For The Ride is not only the worst ballad DT has ever done, its also one of/ if not THE worst song they have ever done.

For me, the new album goes from Surrender to Reason to Illumination Theory.

You also have BCSL in your top 5 so...

[BlobVanDam]

Maybe it's about time for me also to make a contribution to this thread:

Along For The Ride is not only the worst ballad DT has ever done, its also one of/ if not THE worst song they have ever done.

For me, the new album goes from Surrender to Reason to Illumination Theory.

You also have BCSL in your top 5 so...

That's completely relevant.

[Zook]

I was poking fun at his weird opinions. Bugger off, mate.

[fibreoptix]

Maybe it's about time for me also to make a contribution to this thread:

Along For The Ride is not only the worst ballad DT has ever done, its also one of/ if not THE worst song they have ever done.

For me, the new album goes from Surrender to Reason to Illumination Theory.

Since we're spouting controversial opinions on the subject... Along For the Ride is probably my second favourite song from DT12 after STR. An absolute delight to listen to.

[TheGreatPretender]

Here's one:

I think that the heavy parts of A Nightmare To Remember are better than the Beautiful Agony part.

[King Postwhore]

Here's one:

I think that the heavy parts of A Nightmare To Remember are better than the Beautiful Agony part.

I think both work so we because if the dichotomy.

[bosk1]

Here's one:

I think that the heavy parts of A Nightmare To Remember are better than the Beautiful Agony part.

I think both work so we because if the dichotomy.

I think all the parts work so well because they are all awesome.

[King Postwhore]

Indeed.

[Ruba]

Here's one:

I think that the heavy parts of A Nightmare To Remember are better than the Beautiful Agony part.

Pretty much yes.

[Prog Snob]

Here's one:

I think that the heavy parts of A Nightmare To Remember are better than the Beautiful Agony part.

I think both work so we because if the dichotomy.

I think all the parts work so well because they are all awesome.

I think your assessment works because it's correct.   

[bosk1]

no u

[TheGreatPretender]

Here's one:

I think that the heavy parts of A Nightmare To Remember are better than the Beautiful Agony part.

I think both work so we because if the dichotomy.

I agree, but usually, all I ever read on this forum is people saying, first of all, that the song is too long and that the two parts don't fit together (which I disagree with), and second, that if it WAS separated, that Beautiful Agony would be an awesome stand alone song. Which is something no one ever says about the heavy bookends of the song.

[Estiui]

This is not controversial at all but... A Nightmare To Remember and Repentance would be top 10 songs if each of them dropped out their 4-5 final minutes.

[aprilethereal]

This is not controversial at all but... A Nightmare To Remember and Repentance would be top 10 songs if each of them dropped out their 4-5 final minutes.

I think it is pretty controversial. And I disagree.

[jakepriest]

This is not controversial at all but... A Nightmare To Remember and Repentance would be top 10 songs if each of them dropped out their 4-5 final minutes.

For ANTR it would have to cut out everything after Beautiful Agony ends.

I agree with Repentance. 

[Crow]

This is not controversial at all but... A Nightmare To Remember and Repentance would be top 10 songs if each of them dropped out their 4-5 final minutes.

Repentance would go from "really damn good" to "good but not great" if you did that to it. So no. Shame on you. Shhhhhhhhhhame on you.
Agree with ANTR though I guess.