Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 436250 times)

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Online TAC

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6370 on: December 13, 2020, 06:07:08 PM »
Yes!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6371 on: December 13, 2020, 06:13:39 PM »
I'm nervous as all hell but I'm going overboard to be careful.  That's why I was pissed when my brother tried to give me his sanctimonious lecture while driving back from jamming with his friends.

Wtf, I haven't gone out with friends forever!
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6372 on: December 13, 2020, 09:18:08 PM »
And these days, "personal choice" means religious liberties which translates to religious privilege. In Texas, your child cannot enroll in public school  unless they have vaccinations - unless they get a religious exemption and in some states, parents are allowed to let their children die because they literally believe in "woo" and they won't vaccinate "their" children. Children have been killed simply because of what their parents believe. This has been happening for years!
That said, I would support a law that restricts rights of people who don't vaccinate.

This.  So much.  No shirt, no shoes, no vax-proof card, no service.

@ Ben... (serious question, and lord help me I have no idea why I'm asking it), why is the "freedom to choose" the option of getting very fucking sick, and potentially passing it along to others, so important to you? 

Regardless of your answer, I trust then you believe and respect medical professionals should have the freedom of choice whether to treat you if you're sick?  Businesses also should have the freedom of choice as to whether to allow you into their premises or to provide you goods or services?

It's quite important in certain aspects of life to me. And I do understand that, it's understanding the good and bad of that "freedom of choice", it's balancing this...Freedom and Security, you can't have one or the other. The freer you are the more you can do whatever you want. the more security you have to help protect you and others, the collective, the less freedom you have to do things in order to help protect the collective. Which in turn, As people have the "freedom of choice" to not get vaccinated, so does the Company have the "freedom of choice" to deny you. But, is it humane to deny these basic necessities. Are you willing to make more people homeless because they can not get those essential necessities. Are you gonna treat them exactly like the Lepers?

And according to this, Doctors can't deny you service in an Emergency Room, and can only deny you service based of these reasons:

Quote
There are a few reasons why a doctor can refuse to treat a patient. The most obvious of these is if the doctor does not treat patients with the patient’s specific condition. For example, an individual suffering from a throat infection cannot realistically expect a gynecologist to diagnose and treat his or her condition.

Other reasons why a doctor can deny treatment to an individual include:

The patient exhibits drug-seeking behavior;
The patient is disruptive or otherwise difficult to handle;
The doctor does not have a working relationship with the patient’s healthcare insurance provider;
The doctor’s personal convictions, such as a doctor refusing to perform an abortion for religious reasons or refusing to prescribe narcotics for pain; and
The patient or the patient’s spouse is a medical malpractice lawyer.

However, there are cases where doctors may not refuse to treat patients. In emergency situations, responding doctors and other healthcare providers are required to stabilize the patient’s condition regardless of the patient’s ability to pay for the treatment or provide proof of insurance. This is required by the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (EMTALA).

So due to EMTALA, These covid-19 cases that are going through the ER can't be denied service, until they get stabilized.


And these days, "personal choice" means religious liberties which translates to religious privilege. In Texas, your child cannot enroll in public school  unless they have vaccinations - unless they get a religious exemption and in some states, parents are allowed to let their children die because they literally believe in "woo" and they won't vaccinate "their" children. Children have been killed simply because of what their parents believe. This has been happening for years!
That said, I would support a law that restricts rights of people who don't vaccinate.


As much as you may not like it. Christianity, is a religion, and is protected under the Civil Rights Act.

Quote
There is one exception to the healthcare provider’s right to deny services: discrimination. Under the Civil Rights Act of 1964, it is illegal for a healthcare provider to deny a patient treatment based on the patient’s age, sex, race, sexual orientation, religion, or national origin.




I am not Anti-Vaxx at all. I understand it's important for certain things. For me, it's too soon. So I am going to wait, and if things get better while I am waiting, then cool. I don't have to take it, like I do not take a Flu Vaccine. and if I get sick, I will not go out. The thing with Covid, is the mimicking of Walking Pneumonia. I wonder how many people actually did have Walking Pneumonia before covid-19?

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/pneumonia-and-covid-19#treatment
https://www.webmd.com/lung/covid-and-pneumonia#2-6
https://www.abc27.com/news/whats-going-around-covid-19-respiratory-infections-stomach-bug-ear-infections/
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6373 on: December 14, 2020, 07:35:31 AM »
I'd gather you see no sense of irony that you're literally citing a government enacted law that limits a doctor's "freedom of choice" (to protect, safeguard and treat the health of individual members of society), while decrying how you personally should  have that freedom of choice - to hell with how that might impact the health of other individual members of society.
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6374 on: December 14, 2020, 08:10:28 AM »
I'd gather you see no sense of irony that you're literally citing a government enacted law that limits a doctor's "freedom of choice" (to protect, safeguard and treat the health of individual members of society), while decrying how you personally should  have that freedom of choice - to hell with how that might impact the health of other individual members of society.

You totally missed where I said...It's about balance. And also, I have said it's a very personal matter. That's up to the person's feelings of death. If that Old elderly person wants to see his family and risk dying of Covid rather than being alone. I would let them see their family.

That's the thing, you can protect people all you want. But when they make that personal decision to accept the risks, and consequences, they'll do it.

People have always found ways around Laws. Because of that "Freedom of Choice".

It's a part of being human.

And oh believe me. Life is full of Irony.
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Offline Evermind

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6375 on: December 14, 2020, 08:32:57 AM »
Felt a bit under the weather today as the work day progressed, had a mild headache after lunch. Just arrived home, took my temperature and it's 38°C. Wtf.

No loss of senses so far, so I'm hopeful this isn't Covid. Gonna call the doctor and schedule the test tomorrow. On a bright side, if it is Covid, two weeks of sick leave will mean the working year is almost over for me. :)
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6376 on: December 14, 2020, 08:36:52 AM »
Felt a bit under the weather today as the work day progressed, had a mild headache after lunch. Just arrived home, took my temperature and it's 38°C. Wtf.

No loss of senses so far, so I'm hopeful this isn't Covid. Gonna call the doctor and schedule the test tomorrow. On a bright side, if it is Covid, two weeks of sick leave will mean the working year is almost over for me. :)

Staying positive and keeping a good mind helps a lot.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6377 on: December 14, 2020, 08:38:32 AM »
I'd gather you see no sense of irony that you're literally citing a government enacted law that limits a doctor's "freedom of choice" (to protect, safeguard and treat the health of individual members of society), while decrying how you personally should  have that freedom of choice - to hell with how that might impact the health of other individual members of society.

You totally missed where I said...It's about balance. And also, I have said it's a very personal matter. That's up to the person's feelings of death. If that Old elderly person wants to see his family and risk dying of Covid rather than being alone. I would let them see their family.

But that's where you're wrong ... it's NOT a very personal matter - you comprehend how the math of epidemiology works, right?  You think the future gmaillerdrakes or Queenshmeglands think it's a "personal choice" when they catch COVID because someone exercised THEIR freedoms to not vaccinate or mask?  "Personal" choices that affect dozens, or hundreds, or thousands of others aren't terribly personal.

Felt a bit under the weather today as the work day progressed, had a mild headache after lunch. Just arrived home, took my temperature and it's 38°C. Wtf.

No loss of senses so far, so I'm hopeful this isn't Covid. Gonna call the doctor and schedule the test tomorrow. On a bright side, if it is Covid, two weeks of sick leave will mean the working year is almost over for me. :)

FUCK!  COVID is spreading thru DTF!  While I'm trying to spread a little levity, I'm hoping it's nothing other than a normal sickness - for you, the Millers, and Shmeglands

Staying positive and keeping a good mind helps a lot.

What in the actual fuck?  What is he supposed to do if it is COVID??  Meditate it away?
That's a word salad - and take it from me, I know word salad
I fear for the day when something happens on the right that is SO nuts that even Stadler says "That's crazy".
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Offline hunnus2000

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6378 on: December 14, 2020, 08:45:03 AM »



As much as you may not like it. Christianity, is a religion, and is protected under the Civil Rights Act.


[/quote]

For the record, the Civil Rights Act addresses labor laws. Religion is protected under the establishment clause in the constitution. And while I have MAJOR criticisms of christianity and wish it would die a quicker death, it's the religious privilege that I rail against in this conversation. Why is it that a certain class of people are elevated simply because they believe in "magic" and are willing to put others at risk for sickness and maybe death?

Now I know you're not an anti-vaxxer so the question is just me musing but if this virus mutates like the common flu then we're still at risk for now and in the future.

BTW - we're grunts so we won't be getting the vaccine anytime soon. Probably April or May so there is plenty of time to vet out the vaccine.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6379 on: December 14, 2020, 08:56:57 AM »
I'd gather you see no sense of irony that you're literally citing a government enacted law that limits a doctor's "freedom of choice" (to protect, safeguard and treat the health of individual members of society), while decrying how you personally should  have that freedom of choice - to hell with how that might impact the health of other individual members of society.

You totally missed where I said...It's about balance. And also, I have said it's a very personal matter. That's up to the person's feelings of death. If that Old elderly person wants to see his family and risk dying of Covid rather than being alone. I would let them see their family.

But that's where you're wrong ... it's NOT a very personal matter - you comprehend how the math of epidemiology works, right?  You think the future gmaillerdrakes or Queenshmeglands think it's a "personal choice" when they catch COVID because someone exercised THEIR freedoms to not vaccinate or mask?  "Personal" choices that affect dozens, or hundreds, or thousands of others aren't terribly personal.

Felt a bit under the weather today as the work day progressed, had a mild headache after lunch. Just arrived home, took my temperature and it's 38°C. Wtf.

No loss of senses so far, so I'm hopeful this isn't Covid. Gonna call the doctor and schedule the test tomorrow. On a bright side, if it is Covid, two weeks of sick leave will mean the working year is almost over for me. :)

FUCK!  COVID is spreading thru DTF!  While I'm trying to spread a little levity, I'm hoping it's nothing other than a normal sickness - for you, the Millers, and Shmeglands

Staying positive and keeping a good mind helps a lot.

What in the actual fuck?  What is he supposed to do if it is COVID??  Meditate it away?


Are we so sure, we know exactly that it came from that person not wearing a mask? No.

It's very personal, otherwise people wouldn't be caring so much about getting the virus. They are personally worried, not only for themselves, but for the others in their family whose immunity is compromised by either Underlying Health Conditions, or not as good as it should be. I respect that. Which is why I wear a mask to make those people feel better, and make it in their mind it's working. While I can still have in my mind, it doesn't help much, when I could just use my shirt, as that is thicker than some mask material I have seen being worn.




Now I know you're not an anti-vaxxer so the question is just me musing but if this virus mutates like the common flu then we're still at risk for now and in the future.

BTW - we're grunts so we won't be getting the vaccine anytime soon. Probably April or May so there is plenty of time to vet out the vaccine.

Exactly, just like any other sicknesses we have, there is no cure. So what can we do that will help our immunity not be as susceptible to these sicknesses? And what has causes our immunity to be susceptible to these diseases/sicknesses?
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6380 on: December 14, 2020, 08:59:29 AM »
BTW - we're grunts so we won't be getting the vaccine anytime soon. Probably April or May so there is plenty of time to vet out the vaccine.

If you are in the "I'm going to wait" crowd, waiting till April or May makes no sense, you'll want to wait another 30 years.  If you truly are in the "wait and see" crowd. 

Offline Evermind

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6381 on: December 14, 2020, 08:59:43 AM »
Staying positive and keeping a good mind helps a lot.

What in the actual fuck?  What is he supposed to do if it is COVID??  Meditate it away?

:lol

Well, I'll follow the doctor's directions, but I guess staying positive won't hurt either. If I got it, I'm honestly not surprised with all the business trips and loads of contact with different people at work for the past few months. We'll see in a few days! Thanks for the good wishes though.
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6382 on: December 14, 2020, 09:05:43 AM »
Let's hope it's just a random flu!  :hat crossed fingers!
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Offline Chino

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6383 on: December 14, 2020, 09:07:45 AM »
And what has causes our immunity to be susceptible to these diseases/sicknesses?

Micro organisms' ability to evolve faster than humans.

Offline hunnus2000

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6384 on: December 14, 2020, 09:16:44 AM »
BTW - we're grunts so we won't be getting the vaccine anytime soon. Probably April or May so there is plenty of time to vet out the vaccine.

If you are in the "I'm going to wait" crowd, waiting till April or May makes no sense, you'll want to wait another 30 years.  If you truly are in the "wait and see" crowd.

My comments were referring to logistics. I just don't see how the vaccine will be available to the general public before April but I truly hope I'm wrong. It also won't come as a surprise if complications with the vaccine cause a pause in distribution.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6385 on: December 14, 2020, 09:22:53 AM »
BTW - we're grunts so we won't be getting the vaccine anytime soon. Probably April or May so there is plenty of time to vet out the vaccine.

If you are in the "I'm going to wait" crowd, waiting till April or May makes no sense, you'll want to wait another 30 years.  If you truly are in the "wait and see" crowd.

My comments were referring to logistics. I just don't see how the vaccine will be available to the general public before April but I truly hope I'm wrong. It also won't come as a surprise if complications with the vaccine cause a pause in distribution.

Wasn't really directing that statement towards you, but the "wait and see" crowd.  Vaccines are starting to be given in NJ on Tuesday.  And I'm not part of the early phase, so like you, I won't be able to get one until April or May either, but those few months likely won't show much in terms of whether the vaccine has long term effects.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6386 on: December 14, 2020, 10:13:49 AM »
I'd gather you see no sense of irony that you're literally citing a government enacted law that limits a doctor's "freedom of choice" (to protect, safeguard and treat the health of individual members of society), while decrying how you personally should  have that freedom of choice - to hell with how that might impact the health of other individual members of society.

You totally missed where I said...It's about balance. And also, I have said it's a very personal matter. That's up to the person's feelings of death. If that Old elderly person wants to see his family and risk dying of Covid rather than being alone. I would let them see their family.

But that's where you're wrong ... it's NOT a very personal matter - you comprehend how the math of epidemiology works, right?  You think the future gmaillerdrakes or Queenshmeglands think it's a "personal choice" when they catch COVID because someone exercised THEIR freedoms to not vaccinate or mask?  "Personal" choices that affect dozens, or hundreds, or thousands of others aren't terribly personal.


But, ultimately, it is.  "Good cases make bad law" couldn't be more relevant here.  We're focusing on one specific aspect - harm to others - because of one component of that aspect - the transmissibility.

But really, at the end of the day, we're talking about someone's specific, personal health.  I'm not saying there's not a balance to be had here, and certainly there's the argument of the greater good, but I'm just not sure it's the "slamdunk" that you're making it out to be.   There's delicate aspects to all of this that unfortunately have to be considered.   We do require, for example, vaccination history to send our kids to school, but it's a process, and the school nurse - a professional with ethical constraints - controls that.  My neighbor doesn't know and shouldn't know the vaccination history of me or my kids.   

HIPAA is a thing for a reason. 

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6387 on: December 14, 2020, 10:42:07 AM »
I'd gather you see no sense of irony that you're literally citing a government enacted law that limits a doctor's "freedom of choice" (to protect, safeguard and treat the health of individual members of society), while decrying how you personally should  have that freedom of choice - to hell with how that might impact the health of other individual members of society.

You totally missed where I said...It's about balance. And also, I have said it's a very personal matter. That's up to the person's feelings of death. If that Old elderly person wants to see his family and risk dying of Covid rather than being alone. I would let them see their family.

But that's where you're wrong ... it's NOT a very personal matter - you comprehend how the math of epidemiology works, right?  You think the future gmaillerdrakes or Queenshmeglands think it's a "personal choice" when they catch COVID because someone exercised THEIR freedoms to not vaccinate or mask?  "Personal" choices that affect dozens, or hundreds, or thousands of others aren't terribly personal.


But, ultimately, it is.  "Good cases make bad law" couldn't be more relevant here.  We're focusing on one specific aspect - harm to others - because of one component of that aspect - the transmissibility.

But really, at the end of the day, we're talking about someone's specific, personal health.  I'm not saying there's not a balance to be had here, and certainly there's the argument of the greater good, but I'm just not sure it's the "slamdunk" that you're making it out to be.   There's delicate aspects to all of this that unfortunately have to be considered.   We do require, for example, vaccination history to send our kids to school, but it's a process, and the school nurse - a professional with ethical constraints - controls that.  My neighbor doesn't know and shouldn't know the vaccination history of me or my kids.   

HIPAA is a thing for a reason. 

I'm honestly not surprised to see you pop in here with a contrarian view  :biggrin: ;).  Though, I'm utterly confused how anything you just stated connects to what I'm stating. 

None-the-less, what other aspects should we be considering other than harm to others (serious question)?  And it's not just the transmissibility, it's also the severity of the virus.  The common cold is just as transmissible, but we don't have a 183 page thread (less than a year old) dedicated to colds.  I've never advocated for public information of who's vaccinated and who isn't.  I'm not saying we all need a tag on our ears, or tattoo on our forearm, ffs.

I'm also confused and unsure how HIPAA plays a role here.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6388 on: December 14, 2020, 11:27:56 AM »
I'd gather you see no sense of irony that you're literally citing a government enacted law that limits a doctor's "freedom of choice" (to protect, safeguard and treat the health of individual members of society), while decrying how you personally should  have that freedom of choice - to hell with how that might impact the health of other individual members of society.

You totally missed where I said...It's about balance. And also, I have said it's a very personal matter. That's up to the person's feelings of death. If that Old elderly person wants to see his family and risk dying of Covid rather than being alone. I would let them see their family.

But that's where you're wrong ... it's NOT a very personal matter - you comprehend how the math of epidemiology works, right?  You think the future gmaillerdrakes or Queenshmeglands think it's a "personal choice" when they catch COVID because someone exercised THEIR freedoms to not vaccinate or mask?  "Personal" choices that affect dozens, or hundreds, or thousands of others aren't terribly personal.


But, ultimately, it is.  "Good cases make bad law" couldn't be more relevant here.  We're focusing on one specific aspect - harm to others - because of one component of that aspect - the transmissibility.

But really, at the end of the day, we're talking about someone's specific, personal health.  I'm not saying there's not a balance to be had here, and certainly there's the argument of the greater good, but I'm just not sure it's the "slamdunk" that you're making it out to be.   There's delicate aspects to all of this that unfortunately have to be considered.   We do require, for example, vaccination history to send our kids to school, but it's a process, and the school nurse - a professional with ethical constraints - controls that.  My neighbor doesn't know and shouldn't know the vaccination history of me or my kids.   

HIPAA is a thing for a reason. 

I'm honestly not surprised to see you pop in here with a contrarian view  :biggrin: ;).  Though, I'm utterly confused how anything you just stated connects to what I'm stating. 

None-the-less, what other aspects should we be considering other than harm to others (serious question)?  And it's not just the transmissibility, it's also the severity of the virus.  The common cold is just as transmissible, but we don't have a 183 page thread (less than a year old) dedicated to colds.  I've never advocated for public information of who's vaccinated and who isn't.  I'm not saying we all need a tag on our ears, or tattoo on our forearm, ffs.

I'm also confused and unsure how HIPAA plays a role here.

Because we're talking about people's medical conditions.  I had another paragraph that I edited because it's potentially inflammatory, but it generally centered on the idea that the vast majority of us - including me - have issues that we would not want others - ex-wives, employers, insurers - to have ready access to, even if there was potential harm to them.

"Harm to others" is a consideration; one of many, not a decisive one in and of itself.  Plenty of arguments can be made that there are situations where "harm" is not the primary consideration.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6389 on: December 14, 2020, 11:34:40 AM »
When shouldn't harm to another be someone primary concern though?  It's that selfish not to consider that a priority?
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6390 on: December 14, 2020, 11:41:40 AM »
When shouldn't harm to another be someone primary concern though?  It's that selfish not to consider that a priority?

There's always the balance of the individual versus the group, and the competing interests of various rights.   If someone comes in my house, I can shoot them; the concern of "harm" to them is secondary to the concern of my own well-being and my right to property.  There's always the balance of what is the harm, too.   Is the chance of one person POSSIBLY getting COVID or not worth the trade off of, say, allowing employers to know whether any employee is on mood-stabilizers, or has a history of alcholism, or has HIV-AIDS? 

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6391 on: December 14, 2020, 11:46:01 AM »
Yes.

Someone being on mood-stabilizers does not affect others.  Someone being an alcoholic does not affect others, nor does them having HIV-AIDS.  Someone having COVID-19 absolutely presents a threat to the health of others.  It's not just a "possibility", it is a probability.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6392 on: December 14, 2020, 12:05:24 PM »
When shouldn't harm to another be someone primary concern though?  It's that selfish not to consider that a priority?

There's always the balance of the individual versus the group, and the competing interests of various rights.   If someone comes in my house, I can shoot them; the concern of "harm" to them is secondary to the concern of my own well-being and my right to property.  There's always the balance of what is the harm, too.   Is the chance of one person POSSIBLY getting COVID or not worth the trade off of, say, allowing employers to know whether any employee is on mood-stabilizers, or has a history of alcholism, or has HIV-AIDS?

Those are variable not inflicted by others.  Using a shooting is not the same as Putting your personal believes over the better good.  I know you are saying they are both intents but there is a huge difference between protecting one's house and wearing a mask.  Luck for us people don't shoot others for not wearing them.
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6393 on: December 14, 2020, 12:19:58 PM »
When shouldn't harm to another be someone primary concern though?  It's that selfish not to consider that a priority?

There's always the balance of the individual versus the group, and the competing interests of various rights.   If someone comes in my house, I can shoot them; the concern of "harm" to them is secondary to the concern of my own well-being and my right to property.  There's always the balance of what is the harm, too.   Is the chance of one person POSSIBLY getting COVID or not worth the trade off of, say, allowing employers to know whether any employee is on mood-stabilizers, or has a history of alcholism, or has HIV-AIDS?

When did anyone (here) imply anything about opening everyones medical kimono??  I'm at a total loss as to how you've made that leap.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6394 on: December 14, 2020, 01:00:40 PM »
Yes.

Someone being on mood-stabilizers does not affect others.  Someone being an alcoholic does not affect others, nor does them having HIV-AIDS.  Someone having COVID-19 absolutely presents a threat to the health of others.  It's not just a "possibility", it is a probability.

That's one perception, from the lens of COVID.  I believe that's limiting this to simple "being sick too".   Those things do in fact have harm for others beyond just "do I get sick too?" in certain circumstances.   

Do I want my employer making a hiring decision based on whether I have AIDS or not?   Does that employer want to have to address that issue with other employees?  Do they want to assume the risk of perhaps lost time or lapses in productivity by my hiring?   Do they want to absorb the hit on their insurance premiums?   

This is why I said "good cases make bad law".  We're - well, I'm - talking about not just the direct consequences, but also the universe of UNINTENDED consequences to decisions that seem to make sense in a very narrow application.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 01:18:49 PM by Stadler »

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6395 on: December 14, 2020, 01:04:01 PM »
When shouldn't harm to another be someone primary concern though?  It's that selfish not to consider that a priority?

There's always the balance of the individual versus the group, and the competing interests of various rights.   If someone comes in my house, I can shoot them; the concern of "harm" to them is secondary to the concern of my own well-being and my right to property.  There's always the balance of what is the harm, too.   Is the chance of one person POSSIBLY getting COVID or not worth the trade off of, say, allowing employers to know whether any employee is on mood-stabilizers, or has a history of alcholism, or has HIV-AIDS?

When did anyone (here) imply anything about opening everyones medical kimono??  I'm at a total loss as to how you've made that leap.

Isn't that what we're talking about?   I thought this started with a comment by Ben-Jamin about the choice of being vaccinated, and the personal nature of such a decision (and it's consequences).   You both were arguing whether this is "personal" or not.  What is more personal than one's medical history?

If that's not the conversation - or a direct implication of the conversation - then disregard.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 01:18:05 PM by Stadler »

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6396 on: December 14, 2020, 01:27:46 PM »
When shouldn't harm to another be someone primary concern though?  It's that selfish not to consider that a priority?

There's always the balance of the individual versus the group, and the competing interests of various rights.   If someone comes in my house, I can shoot them; the concern of "harm" to them is secondary to the concern of my own well-being and my right to property.  There's always the balance of what is the harm, too.   Is the chance of one person POSSIBLY getting COVID or not worth the trade off of, say, allowing employers to know whether any employee is on mood-stabilizers, or has a history of alcholism, or has HIV-AIDS?

When did anyone (here) imply anything about opening everyones medical kimono??  I'm at a total loss as to how you've made that leap.

Isn't that what we're talking about?   I thought this started with a comment by Ben-Jamin about the choice of being vaccinated, and the personal nature of such a decision (and it's consequences).   You both were arguing whether this is "personal" or not.  What is more personal than one's medical history?

If that's not the conversation - or a direct implication of the conversation - then disregard.

Well, maybe it's my mistake then.  What *I* was talking about regarding "personal choices" was in TAKING a/the vaccine, not in disclosing it.  If that wasn't clear, mea culpa.

The disclosure part that I touched on before that was about businesses and government's requiring proof of vaccination in certain circumstances - which to a degree is already happening ... requirement to provide proof of a negative test to avoid certain travel restrictions.  I see this being tantamount to proof of age when being served alcohol, or entering a bar/club.
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6397 on: December 14, 2020, 01:30:48 PM »
I think it depends who's asking, but generally I agree with you.  You are free not to go in if you don't want to offer the info, just like at a bar.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6398 on: December 14, 2020, 02:05:47 PM »
When shouldn't harm to another be someone primary concern though?  It's that selfish not to consider that a priority?

There's always the balance of the individual versus the group, and the competing interests of various rights.   If someone comes in my house, I can shoot them; the concern of "harm" to them is secondary to the concern of my own well-being and my right to property.  There's always the balance of what is the harm, too.   Is the chance of one person POSSIBLY getting COVID or not worth the trade off of, say, allowing employers to know whether any employee is on mood-stabilizers, or has a history of alcholism, or has HIV-AIDS?

When did anyone (here) imply anything about opening everyones medical kimono??  I'm at a total loss as to how you've made that leap.

Isn't that what we're talking about?   I thought this started with a comment by Ben-Jamin about the choice of being vaccinated, and the personal nature of such a decision (and it's consequences).   You both were arguing whether this is "personal" or not.  What is more personal than one's medical history?

If that's not the conversation - or a direct implication of the conversation - then disregard.

Well, maybe it's my mistake then.  What *I* was talking about regarding "personal choices" was in TAKING a/the vaccine, not in disclosing it.  If that wasn't clear, mea culpa.

The disclosure part that I touched on before that was about businesses and government's requiring proof of vaccination in certain circumstances - which to a degree is already happening ... requirement to provide proof of a negative test to avoid certain travel restrictions.  I see this being tantamount to proof of age when being served alcohol, or entering a bar/club.

Just had our weekly team meeting and I brought up if we will be required to be vaccinated and it seems likely not only for international travel but to return to the office.  While none of that is set, it seems likely you'll have to show proof of vaccination to do certain things going forward.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6399 on: December 14, 2020, 02:50:13 PM »
The difference is this is a global issue. Not a personal freedoms issue.  When this is something that happens once every century or so people should take it seriously.

I was thinking when was the 1st time you heard of anti vaxxers?  Hell parents used to search out someone with measles or chickenpox to pair with their child back in the day. Lol
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6400 on: December 14, 2020, 05:48:12 PM »
This page reminded me of  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_White

I would wager that the vast majority of those who wouldn't let their kids go to school with him, due to their lack of knowledge (or ignorance) of the disease, are also ones who ignore the safeguards needed regarding C19. 

Apples and oranges as to transmission.
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6401 on: December 14, 2020, 08:17:49 PM »
Hard to keep up with thread, but I hope everyone, including Gary and Joe and their families, stays safe and manages all of this as best as possible. :tup :tup

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6402 on: December 15, 2020, 08:54:18 AM »
Welp....it's confirmed. Me and the Mrs. have Covid.  :omg:  Just doing our part to pump up those numbers.  :lol   As of this morning I feel pretty good actually, I seem to have passed through most of whatever was the 'bad' symptoms. That being said, it was never really all that 'bad'. Lots of head congestion, minimal coughing, never had a fever, had chills one night, chest tightness one night....but most of it felt like a head cold. My wife the same way. We're waiting for our youngest sons test to come back but he's been 'acting' fine...as well as our other two. So now, we quarantine!
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6403 on: December 15, 2020, 08:56:57 AM »
Best wishes for it being what you just described, the "normal" sie of the virus. Get welll soon!  :tup
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6404 on: December 15, 2020, 09:07:07 AM »
Youngest son is positive.  :'(      I don't care about 'me'.....but this is getting personal now.
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