Coronavirus

[The Walrus]

I really hope we don't get to a point where we're required to produce paperwork certifying that we carry antibodies for Covid in order to go places.

Hah... having just started playing The Last of Us, that's eerily similar to exactly what the main character does in the beginning of the game. Hands police some papers showing his business or state of health or whatever as he's trying to cross the city. Yikes.

[eric42434224]

I really hope we don't get to a point where we're required to produce paperwork certifying that we carry antibodies for Covid in order to go places.

I can't predict the future but at this point testing positive for antibodies doesn't even mean all that much.  We don't know a) are the tests accurate? (Many indications of false positives right now.) b) does having antibodies mean you can't catch covid again? c) if we do have some immunity based on a positive test how long are we protected?

Very true. But some seem to be hanging their hat on antibody testing being the answer to opening things back up.

Our kids can’t go to school without certain vaccination records

That's a little different than certifying that you've caught and fought off a virus at some point in the past.

Honest question, how is it different?  Not saying it isn’t... just curious how you see it as different.

[cramx3]

I really hope we don't get to a point where we're required to produce paperwork certifying that we carry antibodies for Covid in order to go places.

I can't predict the future but at this point testing positive for antibodies doesn't even mean all that much.  We don't know a) are the tests accurate? (Many indications of false positives right now.) b) does having antibodies mean you can't catch covid again? c) if we do have some immunity based on a positive test how long are we protected?

I'm not sure why you come to this conclusion when everyone of the scientists on CNN say that antibodies are useful and that they are even injecting them to some success onto current patients from recovered patients.  Of course we don't know how useful they are, but to say it doesn't mean much seems incorrect.  We know they mean something, just not sure how much which is much better than nothing.

[lordxizor]

Our kids can’t go to school without certain vaccination records

That's a little different than certifying that you've caught and fought off a virus at some point in the past.

Honest question, how is it different?  Not saying it isn’t... just curious how you see it as different.

Do you really need me to explain how getting a vaccine is different from catching a virus? 

If we're going to somehow allow people to do some things but not other things based on whether they have anti-bodies, you're essentially encouraging people to catch Covid on purpose.

[Harmony]

I really hope we don't get to a point where we're required to produce paperwork certifying that we carry antibodies for Covid in order to go places.

I can't predict the future but at this point testing positive for antibodies doesn't even mean all that much.  We don't know a) are the tests accurate? (Many indications of false positives right now.) b) does having antibodies mean you can't catch covid again? c) if we do have some immunity based on a positive test how long are we protected?

I'm not sure why you come to this conclusion when everyone of the scientists on CNN say that antibodies are useful and that they are even injecting them to some success onto current patients from recovered patients.  Of course we don't know how useful they are, but to say it doesn't mean much seems incorrect.  We know they mean something, just not sure how much which is much better than nothing.

They are useful in that they will tell us if a person has ever been exposed to covid.  That gives us better statistics on prevalence and spread.  But if you hear of some reputable scientist person, preferably an epidemiologist, saying that they know that antibodies are protective against reinfection or that we know how long a person can remain immune then please post it!  I'd love to have that information.  Honestly.

[cramx3]

I really hope we don't get to a point where we're required to produce paperwork certifying that we carry antibodies for Covid in order to go places.

I can't predict the future but at this point testing positive for antibodies doesn't even mean all that much.  We don't know a) are the tests accurate? (Many indications of false positives right now.) b) does having antibodies mean you can't catch covid again? c) if we do have some immunity based on a positive test how long are we protected?

I'm not sure why you come to this conclusion when everyone of the scientists on CNN say that antibodies are useful and that they are even injecting them to some success onto current patients from recovered patients.  Of course we don't know how useful they are, but to say it doesn't mean much seems incorrect.  We know they mean something, just not sure how much which is much better than nothing.

They are useful in that they will tell us if a person has ever been exposed to covid.  That gives us better statistics on prevalence and spread.  But if you hear of some reputable scientist person, preferably an epidemiologist, saying that they know that antibodies are protective against reinfection or that we know how long a person can remain immune then please post it!  I'd love to have that information.  Honestly.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/can-you-catch-coronavirus-twice-172623492.html - doesn't mention anti-bodies just says all the cases of people getting reinfected were incorrect and that there is no evidence of re-infection actually happening.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-04/scientists-create-antibody-that-defeats-coronavirus-in-lab - scientists creating anti-bodies in labs that seem to work there, no evidence they work in humans yet.

I'm sure you can find more, these were ones I had off hand from discussions with my friends, but I've been watching a lot of CNN while working out and they non stop talk about the importance of anti-bodies and while they don't know how effective they are, Gupta and Fauci both seems pretty confident they are beneficial on some level as historically the case for any virus.

[Harmony]

But in the body of just that first link is the part that I'm talking about: 

Van Kerkhove said that it’s still not clear whether people can be reinfected with coronavirus.

“That is a very important question. When someone is infectious they develop anti-bodies and they develop part of an immune response one to two to three weeks after infection.

"Does this mean they have immunity? Does it mean they have a strong protection against reinfection and if so how long does that last?
"We do not have the answer to that yet."

So with regard to an employer or some government entity requesting people verify their antibody status, I'm saying that until we know more about what having a positive antibody test means (as far as whether or not immunity is 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 1 year, 10 years and so on) it isn't very useful at this point in time.

[Harmony]

This is probably more than anyone wants to know but there is a lot of good info here:  https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/qa-on-covid-19-antibody-tests/

[cramx3]

nothing is known about this virus so thats not surprising, but the point keeps coming back to the science behind how our bodies react to ANY virus.  So assuming it's the same, there is almost a 100% chance there is some benefit, we just don't know how much.  It's still way better than not being useful.  Considering everything we do know, IMO, it's THE MOST useful thing we can fall on, our own immune system fighting back.

[The Walrus]

I think reading all these various articles with conflicting information only serves to heighten one's anxiety. At least, that's what it does to me, so I'm not reading any of these. I'll leave it to the actual scientists to research and verify these things instead of leaving it to my normie brain to interpret and worry about. Especially as new information is constantly coming out. Wash your hands, wear a mask, avoid crowds, watch Netflix. Where's my chamomile tea?

[eric42434224]

Our kids can’t go to school without certain vaccination records

That's a little different than certifying that you've caught and fought off a virus at some point in the past.

Honest question, how is it different?  Not saying it isn’t... just curious how you see it as different.

Do you really need me to explain how getting a vaccine is different from catching a virus? 

If we're going to somehow allow people to do some things but not other things based on whether they have anti-bodies, you're essentially encouraging people to catch Covid on purpose.

That isn’t what i said.  I asked how the certification is different. And how different it’s purpose is. It was an honest and legitimate question.

[Orbert]

If you get vaccinated for something, you are now considered immune to it.  The cerficate virtually guarantees that you are safe from it, and also will not infect anyone else.

If you are tested positive for COVID-19 antibodies, all that means is that you've been exposed to it and your body responded.  Because there is no hard evidence whether or not this prevents reinfection, this is no guarantee that you are immune to it, thus there is no guarantee that you will not infect anyone else.  You could even still have it now.  A certificate stating that you have the antibodies is useless.  It guarantees nothing.

[bosk1]

^Not exactly, but close enough.

[lordxizor]

Our kids can’t go to school without certain vaccination records

That's a little different than certifying that you've caught and fought off a virus at some point in the past.

Honest question, how is it different?  Not saying it isn’t... just curious how you see it as different.

Do you really need me to explain how getting a vaccine is different from catching a virus? 

If we're going to somehow allow people to do some things but not other things based on whether they have anti-bodies, you're essentially encouraging people to catch Covid on purpose.

That isn’t what i said.  I asked how the certification is different. And how different it’s purpose is. It was an honest and legitimate question.

Sorry, misunderstood. Looks like it was answered fairly well above.

[lordxizor]

I believe someone asked it a couple pages back and I don't think it was ever answered. Vaccines give you antibodies that make you immune to a disease (or close enough for this discussion). If the antibodies you get naturally from having the disease don't make you immune to it, why would the vaccine's? Doesn't it come down to the same issue or whether the antibodies make you immune or not?

[cramx3]

I believe someone asked it a couple pages back and I don't think it was ever answered. Vaccines give you antibodies that make you immune to a disease (or close enough for this discussion). If the antibodies you get naturally from having the disease don't make you immune to it, why would the vaccine's? Doesn't it come down to the same issue or whether the antibodies make you immune or not?

They talked about this on CNN, Gupta was saying there are different types of vaccines.  They don't actually give you antibodies but they give you some part of the virus to let your body naturally build antibodies.  Usually a part of the virus that won't infect you, but another type of vaccine will give you a small bit of the virus to infect and get antibodies that way.  It's definitely more science than I know, but everything I see and read about say having anti-bodies is the best way to be protected from the virus, besides the basics of washing hands/social distancing, but as also mentioned, we just don't know enough yet to say anything as a fact here.

[Orbert]

The vaccines contain inactive or "dead" virus, sometimes synthesized.  They're meant to fool your body into generating the appropriate antibodies to fight off an attack by the actual virus.  With flu shots, however, they typically create a vaccine for the top three strains they think will be around this year.  A flu shot won't protect you against a strain they wasn't included in the vaccine formula.  And coronaviruses in general tend to mutate.

There is growing evidence that there are different strains of COVID-19.  This makes perfect sense, as we've seen it have greatly varying effects on people, from literally no symptoms to death.  You don't get more variation than that.  This means that the new vaccine being developed by Pfizer, while definitely good news, is not a panacea.

[Lethean]

I think reading all these various articles with conflicting information only serves to heighten one's anxiety. At least, that's what it does to me, so I'm not reading any of these. I'll leave it to the actual scientists to research and verify these things instead of leaving it to my normie brain to interpret and worry about. Especially as new information is constantly coming out. Wash your hands, wear a mask, avoid crowds, and listen to Katatonia. Where's my chamomile tea?

I think this sounds like an *excellent* approach. 

[bosk1]

There is growing evidence that there are different strains of COVID-19. 

Yes, but...

This makes perfect sense, as we've seen it have greatly varying effects on people, from literally no symptoms to death.  You don't get more variation than that. 

This does not follow from the first part of your quote.  What you are talking about how is the varied effects in which the virus impact individual people, which may or may not have anything to do with there being different strains.  Even if there was only one strain, people could (and likely would) have a wide range of effects, varying from being asymptomatic to dying.

[cramx3]

Agree bosk, different strains may or may not be the reason for varying symptoms and the extremes.  I don't think I've found a science article that shows this, but reading on reddit (I know, not really reliable) it seems the dosage of the virus is what dictates how bad your symptoms are.  Too much at once and it will overwhelm your body which is why a lot of people on the front lines are struggling once they get the virus, even younger relatively healthy people can get really sick if they are exposed to a large dosage of the virus.  Whereas maybe someone who got it through opening a contaminated box may be asymptomatic.  Like I said, no proof on that idea, but it makes sense to me so take it as a grain of salt and just an idea.

[The Walrus]

I think reading all these various articles with conflicting information only serves to heighten one's anxiety. At least, that's what it does to me, so I'm not reading any of these. I'll leave it to the actual scientists to research and verify these things instead of leaving it to my normie brain to interpret and worry about. Especially as new information is constantly coming out. Wash your hands, wear a mask, avoid crowds, and listen to Katatonia. Where's my chamomile tea?

I think this sounds like an *excellent* approach. 

Oh you... 

[Orbert]

There is growing evidence that there are different strains of COVID-19. 

Yes, but...

This makes perfect sense, as we've seen it have greatly varying effects on people, from literally no symptoms to death.  You don't get more variation than that. 

This does not follow from the first part of your quote.  What you are talking about how is the varied effects in which the virus impact individual people, which may or may not have anything to do with there being different strains.  Even if there was only one strain, people could (and likely would) have a wide range of effects, varying from being asymptomatic to dying.

Yeah, I hadn't really thought it through.  There's no direct connection, but the two statements are (as far as I know) true.  The second for sure, and I'm pretty sure I've seen articles saying there could be multiple strains.

[bosk1]

Correct.

[cramx3]

Saw this just now

https://www.yahoo.com/news/shocking-two-thirds-patients-recently-200545019.html

Part of me thinks those people are lying about actually being out and about, but if its true, it definitely makes me wonder about how this virus really may be out there and spreading more than we realize. 

[Lonk]

They been talking about that all evening in the news and I also believe people are lying or they aren’t really asking the correct question. Just because you are unemployed or working remotely doesn’t mean you’re staying home.

[gmillerdrake]

Ugh

[The Walrus]

Over 40 cases in my town come from the pork plant... I'm going to start questioning people who walk in or call if they've been in contact with anyone who works or has been there before they come in whether my boss likes it or not.

[Grappler]

Saw this just now

https://www.yahoo.com/news/shocking-two-thirds-patients-recently-200545019.html

Part of me thinks those people are lying about actually being out and about, but if its true, it definitely makes me wonder about how this virus really may be out there and spreading more than we realize.

Easter was also a few weeks ago and I know in the Chicago suburbs, a lot of families still had gatherings as opposed to celebrating more distantly.  A lot of people were noting that homes around them had more cars in the driveway than usual.  So we could be seeing some growth due to people getting together for the holiday.

[emtee]

Don't know about everyone else but it feels like this will never end. The continual overload of bad news, dire warnings/projections and political fighting, coupled with millions of people unemployed and worried about their future, can be overwhelming.

[Grappler]

Don't know about everyone else but it feels like this will never end. The continual overload of bad news, dire warnings/projections and political fighting, coupled with millions of people unemployed and worried about their future, can be overwhelming.

I've stopped paying attention to the news, and try to avoid what I can on social media, where people continually push their own opinions as fact.  It helps to just focus on my job, family and entertainment and let my state's governor do his thing. 

[lordxizor]

Don't know about everyone else but it feels like this will never end. The continual overload of bad news, dire warnings/projections and political fighting, coupled with millions of people unemployed and worried about their future, can be overwhelming.

Yep, I know how you feel. Keep in mind that the media is always going to try and push the negative news. Cases and deaths are way lower than many of the early projections. Granted, the stay-at-home stuff has helped, but it's far more than that. Everyone shouts the doom and gloom at the top of their lungs because it gets people to listen. Things are rough right now, but it's not as bad as most thought it would be and things are looking up. We're in for a long stretch of weirdness, but history shows us that pandemics end eventually and this one will be no different.

For me personally, I'm trying to look on the bright side. Working from home has been mostly enjoyable and I'm hoping it will last through the summer. Financially we're sitting pretty good due to our tax return, stimulus money, and the unemployment my wife is getting since her business has basically gone completely dormant. The weather is getting nicer everyday so we can be outside often, and I've even been working out on the patio frequently.

But, yeah, there's always a cloud just around the corner. I forget about it sometimes until I have to run out to the store to get something.

[Evermind]

The number of infected people in Russia is still growing (I believe we're in Top 5 by the number of cases now) however some factories and businesses will be reopened come next Tuesday. Was just told we're no longer allowed to work from home and required to come to our working place.

Man, do I look forward to spend 3 hours in public transport each day.

[lonestar]

Man, do I look forward to spend 3 hours in public transport each day.

Easily my biggest fear heading back to work.

[MirrorMask]

Mask and gloves and you should be ok. I did that for three weeks before coming back home to work (and I didn't even use the mask). I will never know if that literally saved my life (never touching stuff on the subway and often washing hands) or simply the virus wasn't spread enough to be a menace.

But I get the feeling of unease, I hope I'll keep on working for home for as long as possible.

[Evermind]

Mask and gloves and you should be ok. I did that for three weeks before coming back home to work (and I didn't even use the mask). I will never know if that literally saved my life (never touching stuff on the subway and often washing hands) or simply the virus wasn't spread enough to be a menace.

Yeah, these are mandatory for us come next Tuesday. Thinking positive, at least I'll be able to hit a decent grocery store on my way back from work as opposed to going to the shitty grocery store that's nearby.