Author Topic: All things Battlestar Galactica  (Read 167379 times)

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Offline bosk1

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #805 on: October 18, 2012, 05:47:30 PM »
Whatever, it's the Galactica in-atmosphere jump in the link.

???  I clicked it before you posted.  But what spoilers are you talking about?  It's just a 1:02 clip from Exodus, pt. 2, which I've already seen.
He means the related vids on the right side, though I never pay attention to them.

Oh, I see.  I purposely ignored those, so it's all good. 


So, no other comments on my post above?  I know you guys are being careful not to reveal spoilers, but surely there have to be some discussion points. 

What's really getting to me is the thought that surely the Colonials are just burning to retaliate against the Cylons, but sorely lack the resources to do so.  I'm dying to know what's going to happen in that regard.
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Offline yorost

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #806 on: October 18, 2012, 07:15:05 PM »
Sounds like you better not take a break!

On your comments, Adama might just not care since he needs experienced officers.  Or he's making a point to her that he really doesn't have her full support.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 07:22:42 PM by yorost »

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #807 on: October 18, 2012, 08:34:49 PM »
So, no other comments on my post above?  I know you guys are being careful not to reveal spoilers, but surely there have to be some discussion points. 

Discussing substantiatively while avoiding spoilers is hard.  Sorry.

I will say this though, you're getting better at watching the show, even though it sounds a bit silly.  A lot of times in your earlier posts you were asking questions that didn't really matter.  Now you're looking for the right things out of the show, and it will deliver.  Even if it takes a little time.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #808 on: October 18, 2012, 11:32:13 PM »
I want to say things, but I'm never certain if they'd be spoilers, as what happens when has become a huge blur to me.

As far as the Cylon thing goes, I'm pretty sure that not all Cylon models are aware of all other models. I thought that was implied somewhere, but I don't remember. Not sure why Adama would know that, though.

Offline bosk1

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #809 on: October 19, 2012, 08:30:34 AM »
I will say this though, you're getting better at watching the show, even though it sounds a bit silly.  A lot of times in your earlier posts you were asking questions that didn't really matter.  Now you're looking for the right things out of the show, and it will deliver. 

I get what you're saying, but I think it's kind of a silly thing to say.  If my questions seem more on point now, that's just a factor of the plot, characters, and theme being more fully developed and focused.  Early in a serial show like this, where those things aren't as fully developed, there is a LOT more room for speculation and tangents.  Some of that is simply because the story hasn't had time to focus, and part of it is just good writing by dropping appropriate hints and red herrings to misdirect the audience.  So of course viewers are going to place undue focus on nonsequiturs and things that ultimately aren't going to be very relevant.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 09:52:22 AM by bosk1 »
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Offline yorost

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #810 on: October 19, 2012, 08:48:00 AM »
@bosk1: Another dynamic to the 3 and Baltar coversation that I always assumed was the hint that three was saying, "we know you'll do it because we're doing it.  The Cylons feel justified in their actions and the humans can understand that.

Offline bosk1

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #811 on: October 19, 2012, 09:45:59 AM »
@bosk1: Another dynamic to the 3 and Baltar coversation that I always assumed was the hint that three was saying, "we know you'll do it because we're doing it.  The Cylons feel justified in their actions and the humans can understand that.

Well, I think the Cylons (at least, some of them) view their actions as similar to what they believe the humans will do.  But I think that is yet another error on their part.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #812 on: October 19, 2012, 03:06:24 PM »
So, no other comments on my post above?  I know you guys are being careful not to reveal spoilers, but surely there have to be some discussion points. 

Discussing substantiatively while avoiding spoilers is hard.  Sorry.

Lame.  This is a discussion forum.  If no one wants to actually discuss, I guess there's no point in me posting in the thread about what I've seen. 


This whole question about the fight is kinda driving me nuts.  I mean, surely, the survivors want to fight.  But they completely lack the capability.  Again, they lost Pegasus.  Galactica is likely crippled beyond repair.  Starbuck's comment a few episodes back about the way to fight such an enemy is to sneak up on them and club them in the head is likely a VERY thematic comment for how upcoming battles are to be fought (in other words, carefully planned stealth/guerrilla type attacks, doing things perhaps more along the lines of when Sharon snuck a nuke onto a base star with a raptor in an earlier episode).   But I'm wondering how that's all going to play out.

Given recent events, I am also pretty sure factions within the Cylon race are going to become further entrenched and cause fissures that divide them into a race and cause almost a civil war among them.  I'm wondering what that will look like and whether there will be actual combat between groups, or simply just divisions.  And if the former, I can't help but speculate that one side may start supplying weapons or weapons materials to the humans that could turn the tide.
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Offline Dimitrius

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #813 on: October 19, 2012, 03:08:54 PM »
It's really, really hard to discuss the things you just mentioned without spoiling anything, but your line of thinking is a good one.
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Offline DebraKadabra

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #814 on: October 19, 2012, 03:11:00 PM »
It's really, really hard to discuss the things you just mentioned without spoiling anything, but your line of thinking is a good one.

That's exactly what I was thinking too.

We know you want to discuss this all with us, it's just that we would have to jump into the Delorean to go back to the time where we all first saw the show (different times for all in this thread so far, I would suspect, as I started watching the show well after it was done while I assume most of you folks watched it in real time) in order to NOT spoil you.

Offline bosk1

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #815 on: October 19, 2012, 03:13:27 PM »
Well, I'm not saying to discuss those things necessarily.  But there are other things we could discuss.  For example, someone could say, "Man, can you believe the complete emotional rape that Starbuck went through?"  And then we could talk about that.  For example.
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Offline Adami

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #816 on: October 19, 2012, 03:14:31 PM »
Man, can you believe the complete emotional rape that Starbuck went through?
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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #817 on: October 19, 2012, 03:15:00 PM »
Well, I'm not saying to discuss those things necessarily.  But there are other things we could discuss.  For example, someone could say, "Man, can you believe the complete emotional rape that Starbuck went through?"  And then we could talk about that.  For example.

True.  Only thing is that it's been about a year and a half or so since I first watched the whole series, so I'm a bit removed from it and only remember the key points and not the little nuances.  I'm due for a rewatch, and soon.

Man, can you believe the complete emotional rape that Starbuck went through?

Oh you...

Offline Dimitrius

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #818 on: October 19, 2012, 03:15:35 PM »
Man, can you believe the complete emotional rape that Starbuck went through?
I can't even!
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Offline bosk1

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #819 on: October 19, 2012, 03:17:18 PM »
Iknowrite?!

Finding out at the end that Kacey wasn't really here's was such a gut-punch.  I almost cried.  If she sees Leoben face to face again, she'll probably just go straight into berserker more and rip the flesh from his bones with her bare hands.
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Offline Adami

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #820 on: October 19, 2012, 03:18:22 PM »
Iknowrite?!

Finding out at the end that Kacey wasn't really here's was such a gut-punch.  I almost cried.  If she sees Leoben face to face again, she'll probably just go straight into berserker more and rip the flesh from his bones with her bare hands.

See this is an example of where I have an issue. There is a specific (and very important) scene between the two that I am thinking of. However I have no idea if you've seen it yet since I don't remember the exact chronology and I especially don't remember episode titles.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #821 on: October 19, 2012, 03:26:06 PM »
Well, she killed him 2 or 3 times in the New Caprica episodes, if that's what you're thinking of. 

On another note, in reviewing my Cylon reveal score sheet, my fake OCD is kicking in.  Yes, or course it would be lame if the reveals were in numerical order.  So of course they wouldn't do that.  But as it stands now, we have 1-6, and 8 revealed.  WHERE IS THE #7 MODEL??!!  FILL IN THE GAP NOW!!!  :lemmeseeurwarface:  They'll probably wait until the very last reveal to reveal the 7's after the 9-12's just to piss off all the people who overanalyze stuff like that.  :rant:
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 04:01:04 PM by bosk1 »
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #822 on: October 19, 2012, 03:26:58 PM »
Lame.  This is a discussion forum.  If no one wants to actually discuss, I guess there's no point in me posting in the thread about what I've seen. 

Sorry.  I didn't want to sound dismissive.  It's just that the difficulty is a limitation.  I can't just run of thoughts quickly.  Let's go!

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This whole question about the fight is kinda driving me nuts.  I mean, surely, the survivors want to fight.  But they completely lack the capability.  Again, they lost Pegasus.  Galactica is likely crippled beyond repair.  Starbuck's comment a few episodes back about the way to fight such an enemy is to sneak up on them and club them in the head is likely a VERY thematic comment for how upcoming battles are to be fought (in other words, carefully planned stealth/guerrilla type attacks, doing things perhaps more along the lines of when Sharon snuck a nuke onto a base star with a raptor in an earlier episode).   But I'm wondering how that's all going to play out.

What you're talking about will definitely play out over the next season.  The tenor of the human-cylon encounters in general starts to change.  Before, the Cylons were sort of a robot monster army.  Now, the humans have dealt with the Cylons very directly.  An encounter with them feels more personal.

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Given recent events, I am also pretty sure factions within the Cylon race are going to become further entrenched and cause fissures that divide them into a race and cause almost a civil war among them.  I'm wondering what that will look like and whether there will be actual combat between groups, or simply just divisions.  And if the former, I can't help but speculate that one side may start supplying weapons or weapons materials to the humans that could turn the tide.

::)

They really nailed giving a perfect mix of triumph at the cost of great personal tragedy.

Yeah.  When everybody comes into the hanger bay, it's hard not to focus on what Tigh, Starbuck, and the other people on the planet have gone through.  In particular, when everyone lifts Adama on their arms and carries him away.  And Tigh just walks off.  Soul-crushing.

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It also sets up some really great story lines.  For one thing, the occupation and exodus should, for all intents and purposes, unite the surviving colonists.  I am sure an underlying theme in ongoing episodes will be the tension between this newfound unity vs. the types of division that are sure to naturally spring up for a variety of reasons.

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So...humans vs. Cylons.  Interesting dynamic.  This occupation likely will have made the Cylons' actions toward humanity even more personal to the colonists.  The dialog between Baltar and Three toward the end of the episode plays on this.  He tells her the Cylons should just leave.  And her response is basically, "What then?  You'll tell your children about how the evil Cylons tried to wipe out and then enslave humanity, and they will tell their children, and eventually, they will set out to find us and pay us back."  The unspoken response, of course, is:  "Well, yeah.  You DID try to wipe us out and then enslave us.  They will probably be consequences for that that cannot simply be erased.  But that will just have to dealt with later."

Essentially yes.  The Cylons aren't really in a great position themselves.

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This sets up a really interesting dynamic.  All in all, any chance for peace is all but gone.

Good point.

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The Cylons completely stirred up the hornet's nest, and I think there is likely a renewed fire in the minds and hearts of the Colonials to fight back.  Only problem is, they simply do not have the resources.  Althought it hasn't been revealed, I would guess they are in even worse shape now than when they first left Caprica, except they may have more vipers.  Pegasus is gone, and likely a lot of resources with it.  Gallactica is severely damaged.  There are less civilian ships.  A lot of resources were likely left behind on New Caprica--and given the long stay there, the ships themselves were likely VERY light on resources when they left.  And a lot of people have died

The lack of resources comes up.  And you'll notice that the survivor total goes down drastically at the start of the next episode. 

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What about the government?  It's logical Roslyn will retake control with no opposition whatsoever.  Zarek looks likely to back her, at least for now, and it wouldn't surprise me if he became VP.  Down the road?  Who knows?  Zarek is likely a VERY changed man, but he still doesn't strike me as the type to play nice when he has his own agenda to fullfil.  And surely there are others with ambitions as well.

It's relevant to look at the government relative to its need to exist.  In the first season, there were actual broadcast reporters in suits putting on a show to cover the first new Quorum of Twelve meeting.  If I remember correctly - the press still exists after the New Caprica arc, but everything takes on a different vibe.  The press sorta becomes the worst version of itself in a way because those motivations are the only reason for them to do what they do.  The logical ones are gone.

Look at the government this way.  Why does the rag-tag fleet have a government that's essentially a carbon-copy of the one they had at the colonies?  Does it really make sense?  Nope.  What's the tension between that and the fact they still put up the facade of a "government."

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What about the collaborators?  The audience I think sympathizes with Gaita because we know a lot more about him than any of the characters do.  But as far as the Colonials are concerned, he has some serious 'splaining to do.  Similar with Jammer.  I'm pretty sure Tyrol and others saw him remove his mask, revealing that he was part of the Cylon police force.  He and others will have some things to answer for.  Given that the title of the next episode is "Collaborators," I'm sure some of this will be dealt with in short order.

Yup.

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What about Sharon?  She's a Cylon in the fleet.  Just...wow.  This is going to cause some tensions I'm sure.  And she and Helo are inevitably going to bring the issue of Hera being alive to a head.  Should be interesting.

The way it's played is kinda interesting.

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And what about other Cylons in the fleet?  This is really interesting to think about on so many levels.  Okay, here's my Cylon count so far in terms of models revealed:
-No. 1:  (Cavill)   
-No. 2:  (Leoben) 
-No. 3 (D'Anna Biers)
-No. 4 (Simon)   
-No. 5:  (Doral)   
-No. 6: 
-No. 8:  (Sharon) 
5 undiscovered models (I know what some are, but not others).  Some or all of which likely have copies among the fleet.  What do?  Going back to Adama's conversation on this subject with Sharon, I'm still surprised that he failed to ask the most important question in that dialog.  He asked whether she would reveal the other Cylons in the fleet.  She said no.  The mandatory follow-up question is "why not?"  Is she choosing not to?  Is she unable to?  The answer to this question is perhaps the single most crucial piece of information he can gain from her and could reveal a lot about her motives and the Cylons' plans.  Maybe she doesn't know.  Maybe per programming actively prevents her from revealing that.  Maybe she is sympathetic to the cause(s) some of them may have.  Maybe they just want to be left alone and considered human, and she doesn't want to betray that.  Maybe they don't know what they are.  Lots of possibilities.  But especially now that she is an officer, Adama needs to know WHY she won't or can't tell him.  This needs to play out soon for the writers to hold their credibility.

The nature of the other Cylon models is one of the main plot-points of the first half of season three.  Here's a semi-obvious question that Baltar will ask in a couple episodes, that you can ask now since it's not a spoiler:  Why, when the Cylons lived among the humans, were there only seven models hanging around?  Shouldn't there have been twelve?

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What about Starbuck?  She has gone through some devastating psychological and emotional manipulation that I am sure will have ramifications.

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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #823 on: October 19, 2012, 03:42:18 PM »
Okay, I really want to be a part of this discussion too, so I'll try harder.

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Again, they lost Pegasus.

About that. I was always a little bit disappointed with how little the Pegasus was utilized. When it entered the fleet, I thought we were gonna see some major Galactic/Pegasus co-opt action. But then we find out it's run by a crazy egomaniac, and when it does fall into capable hands, democracy squanders the potential. And then Lee just sits on it.

A pretty good analogy that works with the show, really. The war with the Cylons crushes some members of the crew and humanity in general; that's undeniable. But humanity also bands together in strength as a result of literally having no other option. Adama's retiring when the show begins, and Saul is career bully whose blatant alcoholism makes an open mockery of his standing. And then the Cylons come, and it's game on. Even Lee, too,  has no real sense of purpose at first but starts to get into a groove by the second season.

When Baltar exchanges the war with the Cylons for an unearned peace, some of those characters loosen back to their Caprica-era bad habits. Fatsuit Lee is the perfect example of that. I mean, the peace isn't totally a bad thing, as the crew really needs it. But, when the Cylons come back, it's like some of those characters aren't really even capable of accepting it at first. And when Lee's finally jolted back into action, the Pegasus winds up being the price for the fleet's overall unwillingness to take control of a situation that's been prematurely handed off to people like Baltar who think that everyone can get through everything without making any real sacrifices.

There's an attempt in the first two seasons to balance the new, colonial society based on warfare with the old, democratic ways of Caprica. The war side itches to take the fight straight to the Cylons. The democratic side wants to retain the ever-fading illusion that Caprica's established traditions are still relevant to the post-Caprica society. Those two conflicting visions for the colony are at war with each other constantly, before the latter temporarily wins out-- which winds up being a huge mistake for the entire remainder of humanity. Not to give much away, but I think you'll see that in the upcoming episodes those two conflicting views move through together much more amiably, if not perfectly.

The false peace the fleet gets from touching down on (I forget that planet's name) also contrasts nicely with something that happens later, but I won't get into that now. My view is that, at the start of the show, humanity's become way too soft since the last Cylon encounter, and unwilling to correct it's previous mistakes. Again, without giving too much away, I consider the decision of the fleet to colonize that planet to be another major mistake that, once again, needs to be painfully corrected.

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It's relevant to look at the government relative to its need to exist.  In the first season, there were actual broadcast reporters in suits putting on a show to cover the first new Quorum of Twelve meeting.  If I remember correctly - the press still exists after the New Caprica arc, but everything takes on a different vibe.  The press sorta becomes the worst version of itself in a way because those motivations are the only reason for them to do what they do.  The logical ones are gone.

Exactly. Post-Caprica humanity really tries to arbitrarily cling on to many of those Caprican social institutions. And, honestly, while Roslin and the others who push for that direction are certainly well-meaning (and keep Adama from turning into whoever-that-was who has the Pegasus first) I think it does harm, too. I don't want to spoil things for Bosk, but I think the entire show is pretty clear that the humans need to get back into touch the really important basic human things that make life valuable.

Offline bosk1

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #824 on: October 19, 2012, 03:45:42 PM »
Sorry.  I didn't want to sound dismissive.  It's just that the difficulty is a limitation.  I can't just run of thoughts quickly. 

Okay, fine.  I kinda forgive you.

They really nailed giving a perfect mix of triumph at the cost of great personal tragedy.

Yeah.  When everybody comes into the hanger bay, it's hard not to focus on what Tigh, Starbuck, and the other people on the planet have gone through.  In particular, when everyone lifts Adama on their arms and carries him away.  And Tigh just walks off.  Soul-crushing.

Totally.  That’s why, even though part of me really wants to see what happens next, I simultaneously also want to take a break from the show for just a little bit.  This sounds lame to say with respect to a TV show, but I’ll say it anyway:  That is a very powerful image to end on, and I kind of don’t want the emotional impact of that to subside just yet before I race ahead into what happens next.  I kinda…I dunno…in a strange way, I almost feel like I owe it to the characters to just let this sit a little bit longer.

And you'll notice that the survivor total goes down drastically at the start of the next episode.

Oh, I’m sure.  I think the last survivor count they showed was before Gina activated the bomb on Cloud 9.  So there would have been casualties from that.  Likely, casualties just from sickness, accidents, etc. just from being in the harsh environment of New Caprica.  And then the invasion, occupation, and escape.  Yeah, I would expect that the numbers are down a lot lower.

Look at the government this way.  Why does the rag-tag fleet have a government that's essentially a carbon-copy of the one they had at the colonies?  Does it really make sense?  Nope.  What's the tension between that and the fact they still put up the facade of a "government."

Oh, interesting.  I wasn’t expecting that, but it makes sense.  I mean, that has been pretty much Tom’s mantra since he showed up.

Here's a semi-obvious question that Baltar will ask in a couple episodes, that you can ask now since it's not a spoiler:  Why, when the Cylons lived among the humans, were there only seven models hanging around?  Shouldn't there have been twelve?

???  Wait…so…  See, I just assumed that in terms of discovering humanoid Cylon models, things would continue to unfold as they have, where some event happens that reveals that a character you didn’t suspect of being a Cylon, or some new character, ends up being a Cylon model, and that nobody knew it.  So you’re saying…there are no more models among the fleet than the ones we have seen?  :headasplode:

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What about Starbuck?  She has gone through some devastating psychological and emotional manipulation that I am sure will have ramifications.

Oh will it ever.

That should be…interesting.  I’m already started to dislike her.  There is a lot about her character that makes you identify with her, feel sorry for her, etc., but none of those things are the same as liking her, and I definitely found myself disliking her more than liking her.  But in addition to things her character has been through (some of which have been explicitly revealed and others just hinted at), she is severely damaged.  I’m wondering whether I will like her more or less as things progress now.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #825 on: October 19, 2012, 03:51:41 PM »
General thoughts after reading your responses to Reap, Bosk:

I think it's important to remember at all times that, while most of the time the show functions on a purely secular level, there are several instances of just purely inexplicable events occurring. There is something out there, whether a spiritual being, or Cylon ploy, or something altogether different, that is moving certain seemingly irrational and imperfect characters in certain directions. 

Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #826 on: October 19, 2012, 03:54:17 PM »
Totally.  That’s why, even though part of me really wants to see what happens next, I simultaneously also want to take a break from the show for just a little bit.  This sounds lame to say with respect to a TV show, but I’ll say it anyway:  That is a very powerful image to end on, and I kind of don’t want the emotional impact of that to subside just yet before I race ahead into what happens next.  I kinda…I dunno…in a strange way, I almost feel like I owe it to the characters to just let this sit a little bit longer.

Maybe.  Although the next episode is easier to grok if you have a more visceral emotional conception of the effects of the New Caprican occupation on the crew.

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Look at the government this way.  Why does the rag-tag fleet have a government that's essentially a carbon-copy of the one they had at the colonies?  Does it really make sense?  Nope.  What's the tension between that and the fact they still put up the facade of a "government."

Oh, interesting.  I wasn’t expecting that, but it makes sense.  I mean, that has been pretty much Tom’s mantra since he showed up.

Yeah.  But it goes deeper than Zarek's obvious shit-stirring.

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Here's a semi-obvious question that Baltar will ask in a couple episodes, that you can ask now since it's not a spoiler:  Why, when the Cylons lived among the humans, were there only seven models hanging around?  Shouldn't there have been twelve?

???  Wait…so…  See, I just assumed that in terms of discovering humanoid Cylon models, things would continue to unfold as they have, where some event happens that reveals that a character you didn’t suspect of being a Cylon, or some new character, ends up being a Cylon model, and that nobody knew it.  So you’re saying…there are no more models among the fleet than the ones we have seen?  :headasplode:

I didn't say that. :)

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What about Starbuck?  She has gone through some devastating psychological and emotional manipulation that I am sure will have ramifications.

Oh will it ever.

That should be…interesting.  I’m already started to dislike her.  There is a lot about her character that makes you identify with her, feel sorry for her, etc., but none of those things are the same as liking her, and I definitely found myself disliking her more than liking her.  But in addition to things her character has been through (some of which have been explicitly revealed and others just hinted at), she is severely damaged.  I’m wondering whether I will like her more or less as things progress now.

I like Starbuck, but that probably says more about me than Starbuck.
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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #827 on: October 19, 2012, 03:55:41 PM »
General thoughts after reading your responses to Reap, Bosk:

I think it's important to remember at all times that, while most of the time the show functions on a purely secular level, there are several instances of just purely inexplicable events occurring. There is something out there, whether a spiritual being, or Cylon ploy, or something altogether different, that is moving certain seemingly irrational and imperfect characters in certain directions.

Yeah, but (semi-spoiler), the show isn't meant to be viewed from the perspective that certain characters literally do things because a larger force than themselves move them that way (with one very important exception).  All the characters are part of what Head Six calls "God's Plan," but they are actors within it.  Not puppets.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #828 on: October 19, 2012, 03:58:38 PM »
I was always a little bit disappointed with how little the Pegasus was utilized. When it entered the fleet, I thought we were gonna see some major Galactic/Pegasus co-opt action. But then we find out it's run by a crazy egomaniac, and when it does fall into capable hands, democracy squanders the potential. And then Lee just sits on it.

Hmm...  Yeah.  I agree.  BUT, I will also say that (1) as you pretty much concede, the failure to use Pegasus more proactively for what it was designed for (i.e., a weapon of war) perfectly fits one of the major themes that is developing in the series, and the subtle tragedy of the situation would be lost if the directors had spent a season or more having Pegasus flying around shooting up base stars (even though we all crave that), and (2) I think the writers were smart to be judicious about their space battles.  NOT having a ton of them allows most of the ones we've seen, especially this last one with the falling Galactica and Pegasus ramming a base star, to often be at least very good if not spectacular.

When Baltar exchanges the war with the Cylons for an unearned peace, some of those characters loosen back to their Caprica-era bad habits.

...the price for the fleet's overall unwillingness to take control of a situation that's been prematurely handed off to people like Baltar who think that everyone can get through everything without making any real sacrifices. 

I don't really have anything I want to say about those two sentences at the moment, other than to point out that, aside from the fact that they are written about a TV show that is about space Mormons, those are perhaps the two most amazing and profound sentences I have ever seen written by any mortal hand.

My view is that, at the start of the show, humanity's become way too soft since the last Cylon encounter, and unwilling to correct it's previous mistakes.

Mmmm, yes.  Unfortunately, that is a theme that seems to be lost on most of us in real life.  VERY astute social observation by the writers, which is a bit surprising since it seems to me to be more of a "convervative" view of the world, and the writers are very liberal.  Anyhow, I don't mean to turn this to a P/R discussion, so...yeah.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #829 on: October 19, 2012, 04:07:00 PM »
Quote from: bosk1
Look at the government this way.  Why does the rag-tag fleet have a government that's essentially a carbon-copy of the one they had at the colonies?  Does it really make sense?  Nope.  What's the tension between that and the fact they still put up the facade of a "government."

Oh, interesting.  I wasn’t expecting that, but it makes sense.  I mean, that has been pretty much Tom’s mantra since he showed up.

Yeah.  But it goes deeper than Zarek's obvious shit-stirring.

Oh, I know.  I'm just saying that the writers have been using Zarek as the embodiment of that idea so that someone can actually be the mouthpiece that says it outright so the viewers actually hear it articulated instead of just seeing it unfold.  As far as the writing goes, it is very good in that respect in term of the fact that major themes are explored through a number of different devices, which makes them more meaningful and multifaceted.  Zarek is, at least in the early part of the show, the mouthpiece for that idea about the government.  He verbally sets up the idea.  And it is interesting that they chose his character to do that, since there are a number of things about his character that make him very unsavory early on, so as this idea develops, I can see it really challenging the viewer.

General thoughts after reading your responses to Reap, Bosk:

I think it's important to remember at all times that, while most of the time the show functions on a purely secular level, there are several instances of just purely inexplicable events occurring. There is something out there, whether a spiritual being, or Cylon ploy, or something altogether different, that is moving certain seemingly irrational and imperfect characters in certain directions. 

Yeah, I can totally see that.  That idea is reinforced so many different ways thoughout.  It's obviously important.

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Offline ReaPsTA

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #830 on: October 19, 2012, 04:11:41 PM »
BTW, Bosk, if you ever see the series bible floating around on the internet, avoid it.  Aspects of it are held back until the finale for dramatic effect.  It sorts steps on that if you know about it before then.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #831 on: October 19, 2012, 04:15:21 PM »
Oh, okay.  I didn't know about that.  I do know about the Battlestar wiki (which is how I accidentally found about about those other two Cylon models that haven't been revealed yet when I was trying to look up something else--which I guess is going to ruin the surprise when a certain person undoubtedly returns from the dead at some point in the future), but I generally stay away from that as well, other than to go back and read the episode summaries after seeing episodes, just to pick up little tidbits that I missed.
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Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #832 on: October 19, 2012, 05:52:14 PM »
General thoughts after reading your responses to Reap, Bosk:

I think it's important to remember at all times that, while most of the time the show functions on a purely secular level, there are several instances of just purely inexplicable events occurring. There is something out there, whether a spiritual being, or Cylon ploy, or something altogether different, that is moving certain seemingly irrational and imperfect characters in certain directions.

Yeah, but (semi-spoiler), the show isn't meant to be viewed from the perspective that certain characters literally do things because a larger force than themselves move them that way (with one very important exception).  All the characters are part of what Head Six calls "God's Plan," but they are actors within it.  Not puppets.

I'm not sure about that. As Bosk also said, I saw the spiritual overtones of the show from the very beginning. Rewatching some parts here and there, they're even greater than I initially remembered. That's all I'll say for now.

Quote from: Bosk1
I don't really have anything I want to say about those two sentences at the moment, other than to point out that, aside from the fact that they are written about a TV show that is about space Mormons, those are perhaps the two most amazing and profound sentences I have ever seen written by any mortal hand.

Well, Ronald Moore stated from the very beginning that he wanted to "prove" that Sci-Fi could be relevant social commentary! As for my sentences, I guess I do get a bit indulgent sometimes, channeling my inner lit snob  :lol

Quote
Mmmm, yes.  Unfortunately, that is a theme that seems to be lost on most of us in real life.  VERY astute social observation by the writers, which is a bit surprising since it seems to me to be more of a "convervative" view of the world, and the writers are very liberal.  Anyhow, I don't mean to turn this to a P/R discussion, so...yeah.

Not gonna say anything about this now, but I definitely hope we remember to pick this line of thought back up when the show ends.

Quote from: Reapsta
I like Starbuck, but that probably says more about me than Starbuck.

Me too. But I don't think Bosk is even anywhere close to the best part of her character development.

Offline bosk1

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #833 on: October 22, 2012, 08:21:09 AM »
So, wasn't expecting to do this, but we got in another 3 episodes on Friday night:  Collaborators, Torn, and A Measure of Salvation.  The stuff onboard the Cylon ships is just SO interesting that we couldn't stop watching.  I wasn't expecting answers this quickly to some of my questions.  Well...I guess not really answers.  But the show acknowledged those questions, and I guess will leave them hanging out there for awhile.  Interesting about the "final five."  I wonder why, according to Six, the other Cylons don't talk about them.  Is there a religious reason?  Are the final five seen as traitors that aren't to be discussed?  Or is there perhaps some sort of inhibitor built into their programming that does not allow the other 7 models to talk about the final five?  If either 1 or 3 are the reasons, this may explain why Sharon wouldn't tell Adama who the other Cylon agents in the fleet were.  By now, I would have to assume that, other than her, none of the Cylons in the human fleet are of the seven known models.  This is getting complicated and interesting...
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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #834 on: October 22, 2012, 08:47:23 AM »
It certainly is complicated.  Tons of great stuff related to the final five to come.  It's interesting, almost every character went under scrutiny of being a possible final five in the fan world,  Some common guesses were dead on and others were dead wrong.  You've already seen a few hints as to who some of them are, at least possibly.  I don't think it's clear when they decided who was who.  There are indications they already knew who all five were a little earlier than where you are, but they clearly didn't know all of them early on in the series.

Anyone know when the writers decided on each of them?

Offline bosk1

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #835 on: October 22, 2012, 08:50:35 AM »
Interesting.  So, wihtout giving anything major away:  Is there some big relevation of the entire five at one time, or are they revealed separately?
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Offline yorost

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #836 on: October 22, 2012, 08:52:55 AM »
It's a mix.

You're past the, oh here's a cylon phase.  They definitely upped where they could go with the cylon reveals.

Offline Perpetual Change

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #837 on: October 22, 2012, 09:40:00 AM »
I'm not sure I remember when the five are revealed...

Offline Adami

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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #838 on: October 22, 2012, 11:07:58 AM »
Regarding the revelation of the final 5.



Well......it was great, but not perfect...................I'd give it a 4/5.


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Re: All things Battlestar Galactica
« Reply #839 on: October 22, 2012, 01:48:19 PM »
I'm not sure I remember when the five are revealed...
Most of them are reveal in the third season.

Anyone know when the writers decided on each of them?
I think Moore said he came in the writers room towards the end of writing the third season and decided them with the rest of the writers.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 02:03:53 PM by Dimitrius »
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