Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rogue One

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Hello again. By this point, I'm sure everyone looks at me as the forum's designated Force Awakens apologist, but I'll go ahead and say it anyway... I've read a lot of articles and watched a lot of videos recently that said the film's Blu Ray documentary was crap because it didn't cover everything. Well, I watched it last night and thoroughly enjoyed it, as well as the other special features. Sure, it wasn't as extensive as the LOTR extras, but it was a better set of special features than 90% of what I've seen, at least. I dunno... I'm probably making too big a deal out of it, but people complaining about everything is bumming me out and making me... Complain.

[BlobVanDam]

When you have a fanbase as fanatical as Star Wars, I think anything they do would come up short in some way, because there's always something more fans will want to know We're talking the same fanbase that notices random ice cream maker man in Cloud City, and bitches that the new prop of Luke's lightsaber uses the wrong model of screw or whatever.

What specifically are people complaining about it overlooking anyway?

[Logain Ablar]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm just not into the special features (of any movie) as much as I used to be. I remember buying the LOTR EE box sets and watching every last second of every extra feature on there, then listening to the director and cast commentary, etc.

Don't get me wrong - I enjoyed TFA, but I just don't have the same desire to see all the behind the scenes stuff. I'm happy enough to enjoy the movie and leave it at that.

I wonder with the way things are going with internet streaming services and all, are bonus features going to be a thing of the past in the next few years?

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I think that peoples' main complaints have centered around it either not covering certain things in enough depth, such as the initial script writing (it basically ignores Michael Arndt), or not touching on well-publicized issues (Harrison Ford's injuries). In a way, it is a bit of an advertisement for the film as it doesn't dive into any of the production problems, but that didn't really bother me. It's still something like 75 minutes long, and I found it really interesting. Even Mrs. TOX, who doesn't like Star Wars, said she enjoyed it.

[BlobVanDam]

75 minutes? Damn, sounds cool to me, even if there are omissions. I find modern home releases phone in that kind of stuff in recent years, so at least someone is still putting effort in.

[Kotowboy]

Yeah it really sucks when you get a DVD and the Behind the Scenes is like 5 minutes.

[BlobVanDam]

Most DVDs I've gotten from the past few years haven't even had that much. You're lucky to get a trailer, and commentaries don't seem as common anymore. Maybe I'm just buying the wrong movies.

[Kotowboy]

I was glad when we watched the Interstellar Blu ray that they broke down how the tesseract scene was filmed as that was the only thing I wanted to see.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Most DVDs I've gotten from the past few years haven't even had that much. You're lucky to get a trailer, and commentaries don't seem as common anymore. Maybe I'm just buying the wrong movies.

Yes! Thank you! That was my thought as well. Maybe I'm buying the wrong movies, but usually I'm lucky if I even get the trailers included in the package.

[Kotowboy]

You usually have to buy the Blu Ray to get all the extras.

Gee I love being forced to buy the new format.

[bosk1]

I just don't see the point in complaining about extras anyway. 

[Adami]

I just don't see the point in complaining about extras anyway.

While I also tend to find myself complaining if I feel short changed on the extras, I totally see your point. They're extras. We're buying the movie.

[Kotowboy]

Rogue One trailer tomorrow !!

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

 

[Phoenix87x]

Rogue One trailer tomorrow !!

Hell yes 

[BlobVanDam]

Today's teaser was barely a teaser, so I can't wait for a trailer. This should feel even more "Star Wars" than TFA because of the era it's set in, so it will be interesting to see how well it captures that.

[Logain Ablar]

Today's teaser was barely a teaser, so I can't wait for a trailer. This should feel even more "Star Wars" than TFA because of the era it's set in, so it will be interesting to see how well it captures that.

What were you looking at, the 10 second clip here: https://youtu.be/MaYv3Y8tyoQ?

I think the full teaser should be up later on, after it's shown on Good Morning America. I totally agree that this should feel like it belongs in the New Hope era. I'm expecting 70's style sideburns.. 

[BlobVanDam]

Yeah, that's the one. The teaser of the teaser.

Sideburns and sick mustaches. That's what they all need.

[Logain Ablar]

Flares, big collared shirts, kipper ties,...

Seriously though, I hope they keep the costume and set design retro, and not try to introduce too many new troopers, ships, gadgets etc. That new black trooper design is ok, but I'm not immediately blown away. Seems a bit of a departure from the classic stormtrooper or tie fighter pilot.

Will try to reserve judgement until I see more..

[Calvin6s]

I'm actually hoping Rogue One creates a whole new Star Wars prototype feel.  Yes the visuals should feel grounded to A New Hope and returning characters like Vader should feel like Vader.  But I'm hoping they really create a whole new grit and non-lightsaber oriented melee combat feel.

I'll reference The Force Awakens scene where the stormtrooper gets killed and rarely scene "red" blood shows up.  The flickering lights for the Saving Private Ryan "beach" landing on Jakku.  The "war smoke" from the Jakku gun fight.  I was very excited when I watched that the first time.  It was Star Wars, but at the same time, it had a new more adult edge to it.  Some of it is just technology.  Smoke on film back in 1977-83 had a tendency to feel more like a Penthouse vaseline on the lens feel.  Today with all the color correction techniques, it can be there to add to the scene instead of "cheese it up".  It was an homage to the Blockade Runner intercept, but the new tech allowed it to occur in a more natural environment (organic planet instead of sterile ship).

From everything I've read, that does seem to be the direction.  I'm looking forward to it.  The only drawback is we know how it ends in the grand scheme of things.  But perhaps they will do something that will give you new enjoyment when watching A New Hope.  Maybe something strange like Darth Vader allows it to happen because he is essentially at odds with the role of the Death Star. 

[BlobVanDam]

I'm fine with new designs as long as they keep in line with the aesthetic of the era, which I feel the new trooper variants do very well so far, and they're including the classic stormtrooper designs too. I also don't expect or want them to stick 100% to the visual style of the OT, as long as it feels like part of the same universe. Some of the new ideas in TFA were a great addition, like those mentioned by Calvin above.
Hopefully the full teaser gives a good glimpse of this stuff, but I don't expect to feel too strongly one way or another about it yet.

[Logain Ablar]

I'm actually hoping Rogue One creates a whole new Star Wars prototype feel.  Yes the visuals should feel grounded to A New Hope and returning characters like Vader should feel like Vader.  But I'm hoping they really create a whole new grit and non-lightsaber oriented melee combat feel.

I think there will definitely be scope to do that when we see what the Rebels' world is like. They won't be Jedi, so I'm sure there will be more guerrilla style tactics and hand to hand combat scenes. Maybe some good old clumsy, random, blaster shootouts.

But if there is some sort of stealth mission on a star destroyer, I definitely want it to look and feel like ANH star destroyer..

I'll reference The Force Awakens scene where the stormtrooper gets killed and rarely scene "red" blood shows up.  The flickering lights for the Saving Private Ryan "beach" landing on Jakku.  The "war smoke" from the Jakku gun fight.  I was very excited when I watched that the first time.  It was Star Wars, but at the same time, it had a new more adult edge to it.

Yeah! I got Saving Private Ryan vibes from the lander scene too. The "bloody hand on white helmet" part bizarrely reminded me of that other Tom Hanks film, Castaway ("Wilsonnnnnn!!!" ), which took me out of the movie for a few minutes.
But you're right - it definitely felt like Star Wars, but more gritty and edgy.

[Calvin6s]

In the middle of watching the SW TFA blu ray extras.  What are the complaints?  It feels like the exact same format of extras for all the previous Star Wars movies.  Some CGI stuff here, some creature stuff there.  Some actor, director, writer, producer, etc. talk there.  Deleted scenes.  A showcase thing (BB8 and final saber fight).  And a longer documentary type thing.

Never expected plot or character revelations like "Yup.  They confirmed he's Plagueis", because we are in the middle (not even middle) of the new story.  I'm sure I can find something to bitch about if I wanted to.

Now the deleted scenes usually only confirm why they were deleted.  For the most part, this is the case.  But for fun, I'll talk about the scenes.

Finn and the Jakku Villager:  Ultimately, good that it was cut.  It could have added to his character's decision that he just can't accept his role with the First Order.  But it adds a new problem.  You have a Stormtrooper roaming about never using his weapon for too long and you feel like eventually somebody would kill this defenseless Stormtrooper.

Jakku Message:  Absolutely cut worthy.  The whole dialogue was canned.  Especially the emphasis on BB8 with none on the best starfighter of the resistance.

X-Wings Prepare for Lightspeed:  Although unnecessary, it could have helped give the Squadron just a tiny bit more screen time and therefore a tiny bit more drama for their "trench run".  In or out, not a big difference.

Kylo searches the Falcon: I liked it.  Although it did emphasize how if they had quickly tossed a few explosives, the whole escape for the main characters doesn't happen.  BUT it would have been interesting to see Kylo stop them because he can't stand to see his nostalgia destroyed.

Snow Speeder Chase:  The next most talked about cut scene.  So glad they cut it.  Ignoring it isn't final production quality, the whole scene was awful.  "Switch places".  Really?  I mean, Rey was a ridiculously good shot so why?  If it is to take away her Mary Sue-ness, then just have Finn have the gun the whole time.  Talk about a let down.  I need to need the novelization from back to front to get more context, but this isn't making me want to.

Finn will be fine:  The alternate scene used was better.

If I wanted extra run time, it would have been more of the Snoke dialogue.  The grey Jedi stuff.

[BlobVanDam]

I remember the extras for the PT being very good, particularly for AOTC (shame about the movies). It had a great behind the scenes video showing the process of creating CG Yoda, and the animation, without the flashy emptiness of most of these types of documentaries.

They should have included the shot of Kylo Ren firing up the saber in the woods that was in the trailer. It's always interesting to watch deleted scenes and get some insight into the editing process, and see why a scene was cut and how it affects the overall flow. Star Trek 11 (also JJ) had some deleted scenes that I really felt should have stayed in there, so I don't know how I'd feel about the TFA scenes.

[Calvin6s]

Hopefully the full teaser gives a good glimpse of this stuff, but I don't expect to feel too strongly one way or another about it yet.

And that is why you fail (at being a Star Wars geek) 

The new teaser could be Vader walking around saying "We need to get those plans back" and I will feel (for a fleeting moment) like I just watched the best trailer ever produced.  I turn into a little boy every time something new Star Wars (especially movie) comes out.  A Stormtrooper could walk on a white backdrop, point his two index fingers at the screen and make "pew pew pew" sounds with his unseen mouth and my inner little boy would say "I have so gotta see this."

[Calvin6s]

They should have included the shot of Kylo Ren firing up the saber in the woods that was in the trailer.

Absolutely.  That shot was iconic.  And it will be lost in time to a trailer on YouTube.  Quite frankly, what were they thinking with that.  It is almost as if somebody argued "this is too good.  Let's take it out."  There was absolutely no reason I can think of not to leave in a perfectly finished shot.  That was the "nailed it" shot of the trailers.

It also brings into play why lightsaber fights are so vital to Star Wars movies.  It is probably the most visually iconic image of Star Wars movies.  And it is all about the movies.  Having read way too many Star Wars novels, it becomes clear that lightsaber fights need to be seen.  They are downright boring in the novels.  But mixed with emotion, visually stunning FX and choreography, they are film magic.

[BlobVanDam]

Hopefully the full teaser gives a good glimpse of this stuff, but I don't expect to feel too strongly one way or another about it yet.

And that is why you fail (at being a Star Wars geek) 

Well I don't consider myself a Star Wars geek at all, so I'm ok with that. I enjoy the movies as much as the average person, but TFA aside, it's been years since I actually took the time to watch a full SW movie. I don't geek out about it like I do with other franchises like Star Trek or Doctor Who, but it's still a cool franchise that I have an interest in.

They should have included the shot of Kylo Ren firing up the saber in the woods that was in the trailer.

Absolutely.  That shot was iconic.  And it will be lost in time to a trailer on YouTube.  Quite frankly, what were they thinking with that.  It is almost as if somebody argued "this is too good.  Let's take it out."  There was absolutely no reason I can think of not to leave in a perfectly finished shot.  That was the "nailed it" shot of the trailers.

Exactly! That shot got everyone talking, and it was a memorable reveal. I can't remember if that would have been the first time in the movie we saw the saber, but it was a great shot either way.

[Calvin6s]

I can't remember if that would have been the first time in the movie we saw the saber, but it was a great shot either way.

Might have been the first time in terms of the trailer, but not the movie.  Kylo pistol whipped Sydow with it.  Then he pistol whipped the Star Destroyer with it.  BTW, the close up angle shot of him igniting it in that tantrum scene was AWESOME.  Then he batted away markswoman Rey's blaster fire with it.  Then he sucker punched Solo with it.

Which reminds me.  Some YT chick had a different take on the Solo death scene.  That a) Kylo was asking Solo to kill him with his saber and/or b) Solo was the one that ignited the saber.  I don't buy either one, but that type of talk is what makes talking about Star Wars fun.

As far as Sci-Fi, I'm actually only a marginal Sci-Fi fan.  I liked most of the Star Trek movies, but never cared for the TV shows.  I really enjoyed Battlestar Galactica 2.0 (re-imagined).  Stuff like the Aliens series I don't consider Sci-Fi.  But for the most part, the SyFy channel gets very little attention from me.

[Logain Ablar]

It also brings into play why lightsaber fights are so vital to Star Wars movies.  It is probably the most visually iconic image of Star Wars movies.  And it is all about the movies.  Having read way too many Star Wars novels, it becomes clear that lightsaber fights need to be seen.  They are downright boring in the novels.  But mixed with emotion, visually stunning FX and choreography, they are film magic.

^ It will be interesting to see what they do for Rogue One in this regard, as the only character likely to have a lightsaber is Darth Vader.

[Calvin6s]

It also brings into play why lightsaber fights are so vital to Star Wars movies.

^ It will be interesting to see what they do for Rogue One in this regard, as the only character likely to have a lightsaber is Darth Vader.

This is interesting because this is the first Star Wars movie I might actually be ok being free of lightsabers.  This is the one where I am not only ok with re-inventing the wheel, but actually prefer it.  I don't recall Vader ever taking out his saber except to face another saber.  He's always been more like the angry/sad calm in the middle of the storm (as suited Vader).  I kind of see him like Tommy Lee Jones in The Fugitive.  Everybody else is running around like chickens with their heads cut off and he brings the focus back to the task at hand.  Tosses out a few orders like a general thinking strategically.  He slowly comes to them or plots to make sure he intersects their path, making his prey come to him.  This is the Vader I hope to see in Rogue One.  Although I'd accept it, I don't want them to invent the Star Trek red shirt jedi so he can have somebody to saber kill.  It takes away from the desolation set up in A New Hope that makes the Force some ancient religion to be mocked by others (at their own peril).

Wow.  This is the first time I've legitimately even started to think about Star Wars Rogue One with any detail.  The anticipation like the Skywalker Saga Star Wars movies is there again.

[BlobVanDam]

I can't remember if that would have been the first time in the movie we saw the saber, but it was a great shot either way.

Might have been the first time in terms of the trailer, but not the movie.  Kylo pistol whipped Sydow with it.  Then he pistol whipped the Star Destroyer with it.  BTW, the close up angle shot of him igniting it in that tantrum scene was AWESOME.  Then he batted away markswoman Rey's blaster fire with it.  Then he sucker punched Solo with it.

Which reminds me.  Some YT chick had a different take on the Solo death scene.  That a) Kylo was asking Solo to kill him with his saber and/or b) Solo was the one that ignited the saber.  I don't buy either one, but that type of talk is what makes talking about Star Wars fun.

As far as Sci-Fi, I'm actually only a marginal Sci-Fi fan.  I liked most of the Star Trek movies, but never cared for the TV shows.  I really enjoyed Battlestar Galactica 2.0 (re-imagined).  Stuff like the Aliens series I don't consider Sci-Fi.  But for the most part, the SyFy channel gets very little attention from me.

I figured the deleted saber shot wasn't the first time it was seen, being so late in the movie, but I haven't seen the movie since release day, so I couldn't quite remember. Maybe it wouldn't have had the same impact in the movie as it did in the trailer because of that, but I doubt the extra 10 seconds would have hurt the movie either. Oh well.

I'm a huuuuge scifi fan, but I don't really consider the Star Wars films scifi, which is why it doesn't appeal to my fanatical nerdiness, and probably part of why it has much wider appeal. I don't know if that would be controversial to Star Wars fans.

[Logain Ablar]

It also brings into play why lightsaber fights are so vital to Star Wars movies.

^ It will be interesting to see what they do for Rogue One in this regard, as the only character likely to have a lightsaber is Darth Vader.

This is interesting because this is the first Star Wars movie I might actually be ok being free of lightsabers.  This is the one where I am not only ok with re-inventing the wheel, but actually prefer it.  I don't recall Vader ever taking out his saber except to face another saber.  He's always been more like the angry/sad calm in the middle of the storm (as suited Vader).  I kind of see him like Tommy Lee Jones in The Fugitive.  Everybody else is running around like chickens with their heads cut off and he brings the focus back to the task at hand.  Tosses out a few orders like a general thinking strategically.  He slowly comes to them or plots to make sure he intersects their path, making his prey come to him.  This is the Vader I hope to see in Rogue One.  Although I'd accept it, I don't want them to invent the Star Trek red shirt jedi so he can have somebody to saber kill.  It takes away from the desolation set up in A New Hope that makes the Force some ancient religion to be mocked by others (at their own peril).

Wow.  This is the first time I've legitimately even started to think about Star Wars Rogue One with any detail.  The anticipation like the Skywalker Saga Star Wars movies is there again.

I think I'm ok with there being no lightsabers too. I would be happy to see some scenes like the end of ESB, where Vader turns the saber off and starts force-flinging pieces of building around at Luke. To me, that's a lot more menacing that full-on duelling with his opponent. You definitely get a feeling of how powerful he is with the force, rather than just his ability with lightsaber.

I agree he should be the one calling the shots, and dealing with any, er, HR and staff disciplinary issues.. 

https://youtu.be/Rl6OjLH7W5k

One thing the prequels did enforce for me is that Darth Vader is literally a cripple in a suit. The suit is acting like a life support machine rather than enhancing any sort of physical abilities.

"Redshirt Jedi" - love it! 

[Calvin6s]

I'm a huuuuge scifi fan, but I don't really consider the Star Wars films scifi, which is why it doesn't appeal to my fanatical nerdiness, and probably part of why it has much wider appeal. I don't know if that would be controversial to Star Wars fans.

I doubt Star Wars fans would consider that controversial as most admit they like it because of the story arcs and characters with the SciFi part of it being greatly enjoyed, but not the core.  The icing on the cake.  We'd miss it if it was gone, but we realize it isn't a traditional SciFi story.

Dr. Who seems to be the goto for SciFi geeks.  A chick tried to get me into Firefly, Farscape and Dr. Who.  It isn't that I didn't like them, just that I didn't feel compelled to binge watch at all.  Dr. Who has been going for so long that I don't even know where to begin.

I think Battlestar Galactica Reimagined is considered "too mainstream" by hardcore SciFi geeks as well, so that's why I think I'm just a casual SciFi fan.  And some of it comes off as really, really bad.

And X-Files, V, Twilight Zone are a different kind of Sci-Fi as well.  As a non-SciFi geek, I feel like the telltale sign is some longwinded explanation that is more exposition than plot or character in a show is the sign of true SciFi geekdom 

[Calvin6s]

https://youtu.be/Rl6OjLH7W5k

One thing the prequels did enforce for me is that Darth Vader is literally a cripple in a suit. The suit is acting like a life support machine rather than enhancing any sort of physical abilities.

I remember that meditation chamber video.   

The prequels actually helped me look at the OT almost like new movies.  But the meditation chamber in that video reminds me of something from the novelizations.  (been awhile since I read them).  Vader would go in there and it would be like a clean room where he'd take off his helmet, meditate and practice breathing without his iron lung suit.  Trying to improve with each session.  That type of stuff is great.  And it really adds to the Revenge of the Sith scene where the mask is first being placed on him and his eyes widen because he immediately realizes he is about to be thrown into a claustrophobic hell at such a young age.  Where surviving is worse than death.

The Dark Lord Trilogy novels are one of my favorite prequel era books.  The first book is right before RotS and Anakin at the height of his powers.  RotS adds some more depth to the movie (as most novelizations do) and Rise of Darth Vader is his rebirth (or walking dead) with him at his lowest getting used to his new reality.  Chronologically, I'd rate the three books good, better, best.

[Kotowboy]

I'm looking forward to the inevitable RLM trailer reaction