Black Sabbath Discussion Thread

[TAC]

Just ran the ranker. Gotta make an adjustment or two.

[wolfking]

I'd be intrigued on the splits I'd end up with also.  Not sure I'll bother doing it unless we are doing a countdown though.

[TAC]

I guess I got too curious myself, and since we were all kind of talking about, I figured I'd bang it out.

[wolfking]

I might next weekend if I get some time.  I am kinda curious.

[RodrigoAltaf]

Today would have been Dio's 80th birthday, and I did an interview with Vinnie Appice to discuss his legacy. There are tons of Sabbath information throughout the interview. Hope you like it:

https://www.sonicperspectives.com/interviews/interview-with-vinnie-appice/

[TAC]

Final Breakdown:

Ozzy-21
Dio-16
Gillan-3
Hughes-2
Martin-8

[Glasser]

Born Again is fucking incredible.  A couple of songs from it would make my list too.

Trashed, Digital Bitch, Disturbing The Priest.

[TAC]

Born Again is fucking incredible.  A couple of songs from it would make my list too.

Trashed, Digital Bitch, Disturbing The Priest.

Disturbing The Priest, Zero The Hero, and Born Again made it.

[Glasser]

Born Again is fucking incredible.  A couple of songs from it would make my list too.

Trashed, Digital Bitch, Disturbing The Priest.

Disturbing The Priest, Zero The Hero, and Born Again made it.

Iommi says he's going to remix it. That would be great. Its too shrieky.

[TAC]

Disturbing The Priest made my Black Sabbath Top 10, but that album is way short on material IMO.

[jjrock88]

No way, Born again is outstanding 

[TAC]

No way, Born again is outstanding 

Yeah, an outstanding EP.

[jjrock88]

 

[wolfking]

Born Again is fucking incredible.  A couple of songs from it would make my list too.

Trashed, Digital Bitch, Disturbing The Priest.

Disturbing The Priest, Zero The Hero, and Born Again made it.

Possibly the same 3 for me just eyeballing.  The title track would do well for me.

[Stadler]

Born Again is fucking incredible.  A couple of songs from it would make my list too.

I'm a big fan of that album too (though I agree that in modern terms, it's an EP). 

[wolfking]

Born Again is fucking incredible.  A couple of songs from it would make my list too.

I'm a big fan of that album too (though I agree that in modern terms, it's an EP).

Couldn't most albums of that time be considered an EP then?

[TAC]

Born Again is fucking incredible.  A couple of songs from it would make my list too.

I'm a big fan of that album too (though I agree that in modern terms, it's an EP).

Um… in 1983 it was an EP.

[Mladen]

Born again is longer than most KISS, Aerosmith and Gentle Giant albums from the previous decade. 40 minutes was still a normal length album in the 80s as far as I know. It might only have seven song when you exclude the instrumentals, but then again, so does Moving pictures and it's not an EP.

[Stadler]

Born again is longer than most KISS, Aerosmith and Gentle Giant albums from the previous decade. 40 minutes was still a normal length album in the 80s as far as I know. It might only have seven song when you exclude the instrumentals, but then again, so does Moving pictures and it's not an EP.

It definitely is longer than the early Kiss records, or the Van Halen records, as well.  Even without the instrumentals, it's still 38:05. Hell, compare it to Masters of Reality, which is 34+ minutes long, with two instrumentals, and 32:30 without them.  THAT'S even shorter.  So it's not about "time" necessarily; it just FEELS like an EP.   It feels a little dashed off.  And that's not to say I don't like it; it's actually one of my favorite Sabbath records, but it is what it is.

[pg1067]

Born Again is fucking incredible.  A couple of songs from it would make my list too.

I'm a big fan of that album too (though I agree that in modern terms, it's an EP).

Couldn't most albums of that time be considered an EP then?

Born Again:  40:43

Van Halen:  35:34
Van Halen II:  31:36
Women and Children First:  33:35
Fair Warning:  31:11
Diver Down:  31:04
Total:  163:00 (146:15 if you don't include cover songs)

Every album in Rush's run from the debut through Moving Pictures (except for Caress of Steel) was also shorter than Born Again.

Born again is longer than most KISS, Aerosmith and Gentle Giant albums from the previous decade. 40 minutes was still a normal length album in the 80s as far as I know.

Yup.  20 minutes (give or take) per album side was standard.

[Glasser]

I just remastered Born Again from the original release. It sounds better but not incredible. I only did the 7 songs leaving off Stonehenge and The Dark which are pointless and its still 38 minutes. The songs are excellent!

Most 80's albums were under 45 minutes. I remember making tapes from my records to play in the car or my walkman and a 90 minute tape was able to hold an album on each side. Not every album but most.

[TAC]

Guys, I am well aware of the time lengths of all of the albums listed. I am a Fogey, remember.

I am mostly talking about the quality of the tunes on Born Again, which I think is kind of an iffy album at best. Feels thrown together. Such a wasted opportunity.

[Stadler]

Guys, I am well aware of the time lengths of all of the albums listed. I am a Fogey, remember.

I am mostly talking about the quality of the tunes on Born Again, which I think is kind of an iffy album at best. Feels thrown together. Such a wasted opportunity.

I said the same thing.  I think you and I are in the same boat here.  I think I like it more than you do, though.

[pg1067]

I remember making tapes from my records to play in the car or my walkman and a 90 minute tape was able to hold an album on each side. Not every album but most.

I remember having to split Suite Sister Mary between two sides in order to get Operation: Mindcrime to fit on a 60-minute cassette.  Fortunately, I had a tape deck that allowed me to fade out and fade in so that it sounded somewhat professional.

[Glasser]

I remember making tapes from my records to play in the car or my walkman and a 90 minute tape was able to hold an album on each side. Not every album but most.

I remember having to split Suite Sister Mary between two sides in order to get Operation: Mindcrime to fit on a 60-minute cassette.  Fortunately, I had a tape deck that allowed me to fade out and fade in so that it sounded somewhat professional.

Dude! That is classic shit! Ive been there but it would stop abruptly and restart on the other side. The struggle was real but we made it work!!!! 

[pg1067]

To this day, I still half expect the fade-out when listening to that song.   

[Glasser]

To this day, I still half expect the fade-out when listening to that song.   

Of course you would, I totally get it. I taped Diary of A Madman from my LP that skipped on the guitar solo of Over The Mountain and to this day I'm used to the solo missing a note and it didn't sound right for a while when I got the CD.   

[TAC]

So, I have talked about missing out on the Tony Martin Era in real time. I just thought it was a complete joke to call the band Black Sabbath, and I took it as an insult as a fan.

After the very mediocre Born Again, which I consider nothing more than a glorified EP with two good songs and a couple more OK ones, "Black Sabbath" released Seventh Star with Glenn Hughes on vocals.
I bought it when it came out, but I didn't think it was very good, and I felt ripped off.

I actually listened to Seventh Star this week, and yup...it still kind of blows.

So when "Black Sabbath" emerged with yet a third vocalist in as many albums since Dio left, I ignored it. At least I was familiar with Glenn Hughes.


And that's why I never gave the Tony Martin Era a chance.

[El Barto]

So, I have talked about missing out on the Tony Martin Era in real time. I just thought it was a complete joke to call the band Black Sabbath, and I took it as an insult as a fan.

After the very mediocre Born Again, which I consider nothing more than a glorified EP with two good songs and a couple more OK ones, "Black Sabbath" released Seventh Star with Glenn Hughes on vocals.
I bought it when it came out, but I didn't think it was very good, and I felt ripped off.

I actually listened to Seventh Star this week, and yup...it still kind of blows.

So when "Black Sabbath" emerged with yet a third vocalist in as many albums since Dio left, I ignored it. At least I was familiar with Glenn Hughes.


And that's why I never gave the Tony Martin Era a chance.

So, yeah. You fucked up. Is there a point to your post?

[TAC]

Well, I guess that I came to realize that the sucky Seventh Star really impacted how I viewed the next “Black Sabbath”.  It wasn’t just a straight out dismissal of the Martin Era on its face, but more of a culmination of how I felt about the two previous albums.

Just musing.

[wolfking]

But why didn't you at least give Eternal Idol a chance when it came out?

Seventh Star would have worked much better if the record company let Tony have it as a solo album like he wanted.

[MirrorMask]

Seventh Star would have worked much better if the record company let Tony have it as a solo album like he wanted.

Exactly. Seventh Star sucks as a Black Sabbath album because it was never meant to be a Sabbath album.

[wolfking]

I hated it at first, but it grew on me over time.  There's a few killer tunes on there.  Danger Zone particularly.

[TAC]

Seventh Star would have worked much better if the record company let Tony have it as a solo album like he wanted.

Exactly. Seventh Star sucks as a Black Sabbath album because it was never meant to be a Sabbath album.

It kind of sucks whatever name it would be under.

[wolfking]

You say Born Again feels like an EP but Seventh Star always felt that way to me.  It's kind of only really 7 songs and most are very short.