Black Sabbath Discussion Thread

[TAC]

I've never thought or had an issue with the length.

You're a lucky guy!





Even the live show for that tour was short as hell. But there is something cool as hell about the album, I'll give you that. Hopefully whatever they release includes a live show.

[wolfking]

 

Yeah, a decent sounding bootleg would be awesome.

[pg1067]

Born Again and Trashed are fine and Digital Bitch fucking smokes but that chorus? WTF?

You mean the chorus lyrics?  Are they really any worse than "her big fat daddy was a money machine," "she's a greedy emotional looter" and "her life is just one ginormous thrill"?

So I have a story about Born Again..

I went to a private catholic high school (my father taught there, and I got into trouble in junior high) which meant that I went to school with kids from all different towns. In the 10th grade, I was in English class and the kid two seats in front of me, who I really didn't know, had a Born Again tour shirt that I could see through his white dress shirt.
Anyway, I started a conversation with him about it, and we became really good friends. In fact he's the only person from high school that am still in contact with. (He's the same guy that had Rik Emmet sing at his wedding.)

I also went to a private Catholic High School (which apparently is currently the #1 ranked HS football team in the country).  We had to wear collared shirts, but they could be any color (or striped).  My friends and I always had the baseball sleeve style concert shirts under our collared shirts (which got peeled off pretty much as soon as the school day was done).  A lot of our lunch time was spent avoiding the deans who didn't think our sleeves were consistent with the dress code.

[jammindude]

Born Again is 41:04 which is pretty average length for the time period. Most albums (with some progressive bands being the exception) tried to keep LP sides down around 20 min per side, because sound quality was compromised if you pushed it past 22 or so.

I believe it was Iron Maiden who was one of the first wildly popular bands from the 80s who pushed for the technology to get LP sides up to 25 minutes without compromising sound quality.

Up until then, it wasn’t uncommon to have some LP sides to be in the teens. (See Rush’s AFTK-PEW run)

[TAC]

Born Again is 41:04 which is pretty average length for the time period.

Yes, I'm aware of this, Fogey.


Heaven & Hell is only 40 minutes, but at least it still feels like a complete album. Born Again never felt complete to me, like it was thrown together. 2 of the 9 tracks are interludes.

I always considered Born Again a huge missed opportunity. I don't know how much time was spent writing the album, but it feels like it was thrown together on a weekend.

[ProfessorPeart]

If you bought the deluxe edition, like I did, you'd have the show from Reading 1983. It's a BBC recording and it sounds good.

This is the edition I have:

https://www.discogs.com/release/8120133-Black-Sabbath-Born-Again

[TAC]

If you bought the deluxe edition, like I did, you'd have the show from Reading 1983. It's a BBC recording and it sounds good.

This is the edition I have:

https://www.discogs.com/release/8120133-Black-Sabbath-Born-Again

I would never buy that. I already have the CD.

Besides, there's no way that's the complete Reading show.

I have the SB Worcester show, and that's barely 70 minutes.

[wolfking]

If you bought the deluxe edition, like I did, you'd have the show from Reading 1983. It's a BBC recording and it sounds good.

This is the edition I have:

https://www.discogs.com/release/8120133-Black-Sabbath-Born-Again

I'll see what this remix has.  Never looked into these editions much

Born Again is 41:04 which is pretty average length for the time period.

Yes, I'm aware of this, Fogey.


Heaven & Hell is only 40 minutes, but at least it still feels like a complete album. Born Again never felt complete to me, like it was thrown together. 2 of the 9 tracks are interludes.

I always considered Born Again a huge missed opportunity. I don't know how much time was spent writing the album, but it feels like it was thrown together on a weekend.

I can kind of understand that.

[jammindude]

If you bought the deluxe edition, like I did, you'd have the show from Reading 1983. It's a BBC recording and it sounds good.

This is the edition I have:

https://www.discogs.com/release/8120133-Black-Sabbath-Born-Again

I'll see what this remix has.  Never looked into these editions much

Not a remix. Just a remaster. A remix is not possible without the original master tapes which Iommi just now found. If he follows through on his promise, it would be the first remix of the album.

[wolfking]

If you bought the deluxe edition, like I did, you'd have the show from Reading 1983. It's a BBC recording and it sounds good.

This is the edition I have:

https://www.discogs.com/release/8120133-Black-Sabbath-Born-Again

I'll see what this remix has.  Never looked into these editions much

Not a remix. Just a remaster. A remix is not possible without the original master tapes which Iommi just now found. If he follows through on his promise, it would be the first remix of the album.

Sorry, I meant the upcoming remix if it eventuates.  I know these ones are remasters, that's why I skipped them.  The editions I have are good enough.

[ProfessorPeart]

I was a late to the party Sabbath collector. My copies of Born Again and Eternal Idol were the deluxe editions to begin with. I did have Mob Rules, but I waited for a deal on the deluxe so I could snag the Dio Hammersmith show.

Otherwise, I have the original Black Box for the Ozzy recordings and The Rules Of Hell box for the Dio stuff.

[Stadler]

Reign In Blood is just over 28 minutes.

Master of Reality: 34:29, and if you ditch the instrumentals, we're at like 32 and a half.

[Volante99]

Not to get on my old geezer soapbox but let’s face it; most albums have no business being over 45 minutes. The 75-80 minute album is a new phenomenon thanks to streaming where bands don’t really need to self-edit anymore, $ is based on streams so the financial incentive is for MORE songs, and the album format (as an art form) has suffered for it.

~40 minutes is perfect for a metal album

[WardySI]

Not to get on my old geezer soapbox but let’s face it; most albums have no business being over 45 minutes. The 75-80 minute album is a new phenomenon thanks to streaming where bands don’t really need to self-edit anymore, $ is based on streams so the financial incentive is for MORE songs, and the album format (as an art form) has suffered for it.

~40 minutes is perfect for a metal album

Albeit there's some tasty exceptions particularly so in the prog genre, I would otherwise concur with this 100%

[El Barto]

Just chiming in to sat that I'm on Tim's side here. Born Again is one of those albums that I condense down to four or five songs. When he said it was a glorified EP I thought to myself "I'll be damned, that's exactly how I've always thought of it."

Also, Reign in blood was a bunch of songs. They were just short, but they were varied.

[wolfking]

https://youtu.be/_-gy9Cjv8rw

New Tony Martin song.  Surprisingly bloody excellent.  A shame there's no solo but good stuff.

[TAC]

This came up on my Youtube feed tonight

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX2aOie0Fys

Pretty glorious footage if you ask me.

[ProfessorPeart]

https://youtu.be/_-gy9Cjv8rw

New Tony Martin song.  Surprisingly bloody excellent.  A shame there's no solo but good stuff.

Have not heard it yet, but I have had the album pre-ordered for a while now. Really looking forward to this one.

[TAC]

Wow, Tony Martin sure gets some love around here.

[Zoom E]

https://youtu.be/_-gy9Cjv8rw

New Tony Martin song.  Surprisingly bloody excellent.  A shame there's no solo but good stuff.

Have not heard it yet, but I have had the album pre-ordered for a while now. Really looking forward to this one.

Nice. It's heavier than I expected. i have the album pre-ordered too.

[wolfking]

Wow, Tony Martin sure gets some love around here.

Yeah, I was actually a bit shocked the song I posted didn't get a bite.  I'll check your link tonight.

[ProfessorPeart]

Listened to Thorns today. Man, how does Tony's voice still hold up like it does? The man sounds phenomenal! I really enjoyed the album. The only oddity was This Is Your Damnation. Just out of place with the vibe of the rest of the album. Should have made it like a bonus track or something. It's not terrible, but I think it needs to grow on me a bit. Maybe outside of the rest of the album.

Funny thing, when I put the CD in my PC and had iTunes pull the data, the genre was Easy Listening  . I mean, I found it easy to listen to, but, yeah.

[TAC]

Yeah, the album is generally excellent. I think there were two oddballs in the mix, but other than that it was really good. I may pick it up. It makes you wonder WTF has he been doing all these years.

[WardySI]

Why can't he get this to Spotify (at least in this end of the world it isn't?)... Will be buying on CD if ticks the boxes but YT seems only option to stream (damn the wretched adds)...

Anyway checking it out today Cheers 🤘

[ProfessorPeart]

It makes you wonder WTF has he been doing all these years.

I mean, between '99 and '13 he did 3 albums with Dario Mollo and 3 albums with Aldo Giuntini. I have all 6 and they are pretty good. Other than that, he's just been a hired gun guest on songs all over the place.

I'd love for Iommi and Geezer to team up with him, but I doubt it. Tony is still struggling to get the Martin era albums reissued.

EDIT: I forgot to mention an oddity in the booklet that I noticed. Danny Needham plays drums on the album, but is not credited at all. He does have the next largest 'thank you' block after Tony. So he thanked a ton of people and somehow got no credit for his instrument. Found that weird.

[Stadler]

Listened to Thorns today. Man, how does Tony's voice still hold up like it does? The man sounds phenomenal! I really enjoyed the album. The only oddity was This Is Your Damnation. Just out of place with the vibe of the rest of the album. Should have made it like a bonus track or something. It's not terrible, but I think it needs to grow on me a bit. Maybe outside of the rest of the album.

Funny thing, when I put the CD in my PC and had iTunes pull the data, the genre was Easy Listening  . I mean, I found it easy to listen to, but, yeah.

There's an American singer named Tony Martin from the '40s and '50s. 

[TAC]

Listened to Thorns today. Man, how does Tony's voice still hold up like it does? The man sounds phenomenal! I really enjoyed the album. The only oddity was This Is Your Damnation. Just out of place with the vibe of the rest of the album. Should have made it like a bonus track or something. It's not terrible, but I think it needs to grow on me a bit. Maybe outside of the rest of the album.

Funny thing, when I put the CD in my PC and had iTunes pull the data, the genre was Easy Listening  . I mean, I found it easy to listen to, but, yeah.

There's an American singer named Tony Martin from the '40s and '50s.

When Thorns came to the end when I was listening yesterday, Spotify put him on next.

[Stadler]

I just listened; I dug that. It didn't blow me away, like some of his work with Sabbath, but it was good.  He certainly hasn't lost anything vocally.

I'd really, really like another Tony Martin Sabbath album.

[ProfessorPeart]

They reformed as Heaven and Hell with Dio. Reform as Headless Cross with Tony.

[TAC]

They reformed as Heaven and Hell with Dio. Reform as Headless Cross with Tony.

 

That's a good idea.

[Stadler]

They reformed as Heaven and Hell with Dio. Reform as Headless Cross with Tony.

 

That's a good idea.

I'd take that.   I don't care what the name is; I just enjoy those albums very much (though, against the general consensus, Forbidden is one of my favorites). 

[wolfking]

Yeah, I'd absolutely love that too.

[Grappler]

The new Tony Martin is a great record.  He sounds amazing, like he could just go out and nail Headless Cross, which is fantastic to hear.   

[ProfessorPeart]

The new Tony Martin is a great record.  He sounds amazing, like he could just go out and nail Headless Cross, which is fantastic to hear.   

I was having the same thought when listening to it. I was thinking he could still nail that song as well. The dude is going to turn 65 soon and still has pipes like that. Amazing.

[ProfessorPeart]

Listened to Thorns today. Man, how does Tony's voice still hold up like it does? The man sounds phenomenal! I really enjoyed the album. The only oddity was This Is Your Damnation. Just out of place with the vibe of the rest of the album. Should have made it like a bonus track or something. It's not terrible, but I think it needs to grow on me a bit. Maybe outside of the rest of the album.

Funny thing, when I put the CD in my PC and had iTunes pull the data, the genre was Easy Listening  . I mean, I found it easy to listen to, but, yeah.

There's an American singer named Tony Martin from the '40s and '50s.

When Thorns came to the end when I was listening yesterday, Spotify put him on next.

Thorns is part of the Amazon AutoRip thing so it got added to my digital library. The artist picture is of the other Tony Martin. I can't change it and it drives me nuts.