Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Stadler]

I don't know know about "unlistenable" but they are definitely of lower quality than the studio release.

I'm not arguing that at all.  I agree.  Just, if I was going to name "unlistenable" because of the sound, the FII demos wouldn't make that list. 

[RaasMah]

I feel like the moans in the middle of Home really destroy the ability to play this song when others non DT familiar people are around. I tried, and you have to prepare them for the awkwardness thats about to come, and even then they go like "what the ****, why would they do that?!" and than you try to explain... the story... the meaning with the gambling in the backround... It just got lost.

Anyway, this and the album ending of Finally Free really makes it hard to introduce SFAM to others, and I wish they were gone.


*thats also the main reason I prey they would play Home in a live DVD and edit the moans out, so we would have a good, non-awkward version of this song.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't know know about "unlistenable" but they are definitely of lower quality than the studio release.

I'm not arguing that at all.  I agree.  Just, if I was going to name "unlistenable" because of the sound, the FII demos wouldn't make that list.

I haven't listened to them in some time, so my memory may be a little forgiving.  Blob seems to have quite the negative opinion of them, as well.

[MirrorMask]

Anyway, this and the album ending of Finally Free really makes it hard to introduce SFAM to others, and I wish they were gone.

Wait, you manage to get people sit through one hour and 15 minutes of prog metal with long solos, a crazy instrumental, a broad range of styles from heaviness to ballads and whatelse and what not, but at the end of something that is clearly conceptual and theatrical, hence also the spoken parts, they just can't stomach a couple of minutes of a dude walking around the house listening to the radio and then 30 seconds of noise that comes what is actually the final plot twist to the entire storyline?

[Progmetty]

I feel like the moans in the middle of Home really destroy the ability to play this song when others non DT familiar people are around. I tried, and you have to prepare them for the awkwardness thats about to come, and even then they go like "what the ****, why would they do that?!" and than you try to explain... the story... the meaning with the gambling in the backround... It just got lost.

Anyway, this and the album ending of Finally Free really makes it hard to introduce SFAM to others, and I wish they were gone.


*thats also the main reason I prey they would play Home in a live DVD and edit the moans out, so we would have a good, non-awkward version of this song.

Haha oh c'mon man.. I kinda think it's unnoticeable if the person listening doesn't know what's going on plot wise.. there's really only a couple of really audible moans, like there isn't any "fuck me harder Eddy" or "Take that miracle Victoria" or anything that bad heh

[Darkstarshades]

 

During LSFNY at Home, at that part I always hear Portnoy saying "Who wants the cock?"
(I know he doesn't say that... right?)

[Progmetty]

I thought he says "Who wants to bounce?", but what you heard makes more sense within the album's context

[Nothingface]

I feel like the moans in the middle of Home really destroy the ability to play this song when others non DT familiar people are around. I tried, and you have to prepare them for the awkwardness thats about to come, and even then they go like "what the ****, why would they do that?!" and than you try to explain... the story... the meaning with the gambling in the backround... It just got lost.

Anyway, this and the album ending of Finally Free really makes it hard to introduce SFAM to others, and I wish they were gone.


*thats also the main reason I prey they would play Home in a live DVD and edit the moans out, so we would have a good, non-awkward version of this song.

I agree with this, my sides implode from the cringe every time.

Thank God for playlists.

[425]

The FII Demos are nigh unlistenable to me due to terrible sound quality.

I mean this constructively and not personally, but I find that to be rather over-dramatic.   Perhaps I'm more tolerant of "sound" than others, but "nigh unlistenable" and "terrible" sounds rather like overstatement.

I have a fair amount of driving to do today, maybe I'll bring those two along and revisit them both.

Yeah, you're more tolerant of sound than I am.

I have listened to the demos maybe twice. And I really, really love the extra verses in the demo version of Lines in the Sand and am very sad that those were removed, but I've only listened to the LITS demo like twice. Due to the terrible audio quality. It hurts my ears to listen to it.

[RaasMah]

I feel like the moans in the middle of Home really destroy the ability to play this song when others non DT familiar people are around. I tried, and you have to prepare them for the awkwardness thats about to come, and even then they go like "what the ****, why would they do that?!" and than you try to explain... the story... the meaning with the gambling in the backround... It just got lost.

Anyway, this and the album ending of Finally Free really makes it hard to introduce SFAM to others, and I wish they were gone.


*thats also the main reason I prey they would play Home in a live DVD and edit the moans out, so we would have a good, non-awkward version of this song.

Haha oh c'mon man.. I kinda think it's unnoticeable if the person listening doesn't know what's going on plot wise.. there's really only a couple of really audible moans, like there isn't any "fuck me harder Eddy" or "Take that miracle Victoria" or anything that bad heh

  yeah its definitely not THAT bad, but it is audible. Im in a mission to turn my brother to DT side, and playing Home in a car drive, where you can really hear everything load and clear, was not a smart move.

Hell I have a female religious friend, who was downright offended when I warned her of whats going to be in it, so I skipped it altogether. For now its the calm songs like Disappear that seemed to work best when introducing DT.

Anyway, this and the album ending of Finally Free really makes it hard to introduce SFAM to others, and I wish they were gone.

Wait, you manage to get people sit through one hour and 15 minutes of prog metal with long solos, a crazy instrumental, a broad range of styles from heaviness to ballads and whatelse and what not, but at the end of something that is clearly conceptual and theatrical, hence also the spoken parts, they just can't stomach a couple of minutes of a dude walking around the house listening to the radio and then 30 seconds of noise that comes what is actually the final plot twist to the entire storyline?

Haha, well I always try getting people to love DT, so in driving, or at work, I manage to get them to listen. Home is really the main bugger, but I had that issue with FF aswell. I was driving my sister and enjoying the song, and tried to explain her what is going to come in the end. Even with that, the noises, screams, and static really drew a weird reaction from her. You can get people to listen to long albums and sometimes they like it, or doesnt, or remain naive to it. But stuff like that is what people outside the DT world (atleast those Im familiar with) really notice and doesnt seem to like. Again, just my experience with it 

[Nothingface]

I can tell you from experience, all you gotta do is put on "Another Day" and give her the D.

[RaasMah]

I can tell you from experience, all you gotta do is put on "Another Day" and give her the D.

I sure hope you are referring to the first female mentioned...



And yeah Another Day is another well accepted song by non DT'ers

[Nothingface]

I sure hope you are referring to the first female mentioned...

Oh... certainly! 

[Implode]

Afterlife is a Top 10 DT song.

I don't agree, but wow. I'm definitely appreciating this post.

[Rodni Demental]

If you're offended at a few barely audible moans in a song (I swear I didn't even notice them 'til like my 10th+ listen), I think it may help to consider why it actually offends you?

I have a different copy of some of the demo songs from some other unknown source, and they sounded quite good. I don't know what happened there.

Is it likely to be the Cleaning out the Closet versions? I think at the very least they're louder so they match the standard audio levels for the other songs a lot better. I wonder what actually happened here though, were they remixed or just slightly remastered to fit the levels of other COTC songs? I've always been a bit curious what that's about.

[BlobVanDam]

I have a different copy of some of the demo songs from some other unknown source, and they sounded quite good. I don't know what happened there.

Is it likely to be the Cleaning out the Closet versions? I think at the very least they're louder so they match the standard audio levels for the other songs a lot better. I wonder what actually happened here though, were they remixed or just slightly remastered to fit the levels of other COTC songs? I've always been a bit curious what that's about.

It's only album songs I have, no B-side songs, so I have no idea.
It sounds like it was remastered for the official bootlegs, definitely louder and a bit distorted, but I don't know. I've never looked into other versions, since I prefer the final album in every single way.

[Paintbox]

During LSFNY at Home, at that part I always hear Portnoy saying "Who wants the cock?"
(I know he doesn't say that... right?)

I thought he says "Who wants to bounce?", but what you heard makes more sense within the album's context

I thought it was " who wants to come", it makes sense given that solo... Anyway, for those who can't listen to Home when with their family, the moaning is on the right channel, so just take the track and keep the left for those 15 seconds...

My controversial opinion is
I like SC, FII is one of their best, and I don't really like IT because I can't stand the metallic sounding voice of James on it

[MirrorMask]

Indeed on the album and the live version it's "who wants to come"; it's a term used while playing cards (don't remember what it refers to) while serving as an obviously blatant double meaning for what Edward is doing with Victoria 

[pcs90]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the sound effects in Home either. For me personally it's not that I find them offensive, I'd just rather not listen to that. I cut that whole section out, but if those sounds are only on one side as said above then I guess I'll need to go fix that and just make a mono mix of the other channel for that part.

[jsbru]

I think it's provocative and edgy, which is something that DT doesn't do a lot, so I kind of appreciate it.  They hardly ever even swear for a metal band, and a lot of their lyrics are kind of academic.

Sex is an extremely common theme in art.  Just go to an art gallery with stuff from the 1700s onward.

It's also pretty common on TV and in movies.  Basically every movie rated higher than PG has to have at least some softcore porn these days, even if it's forced and doesn't fit the plot well.

[Nothingface]

I'm not a prude by any means, I just find the sound effects to be completely unnecessary and cringeworthy, especially coming from a band like Dream Theater - it was rather ham-fisted (much like the lyrics on that album)

"Hello, Victoria!" 

[The Curious Orange]

I grew up with Guns N Roses doing the same thing on Rocket Queen, so it's never really bothered me, but yeah, it is kind of naff.

[JediKnight1969]

Haha oh c'mon man.. I kinda think it's unnoticeable if the person listening doesn't know what's going on plot wise.. there's really only a couple of really audible moans, like there isn't any "fuck me harder Eddy" or "Take that miracle Victoria" or anything that bad heh

If you're offended at a few barely audible moans in a song (I swear I didn't even notice them 'til like my 10th+ listen), I think it may help to consider why it actually offends you?

THIS. I'm a huge DT fan and this is one of my favourite albums of all time. A true masterpiece, and I've never noticed those moans until I read the story on this forum. Still it took me some time to notice them. I think it's just because I'm a music fan and once I started a CD, I got into trance. I let my mind fly and enjoy the art. I don't pay attention to this kind of insignificant details. Home is one of DT's greatest songs. Truly mesmerizing. Too bad that (like we say in Argentina) the tree hides the forest, for some people.

[RaasMah]

Haha oh c'mon man.. I kinda think it's unnoticeable if the person listening doesn't know what's going on plot wise.. there's really only a couple of really audible moans, like there isn't any "fuck me harder Eddy" or "Take that miracle Victoria" or anything that bad heh

If you're offended at a few barely audible moans in a song (I swear I didn't even notice them 'til like my 10th+ listen), I think it may help to consider why it actually offends you?

THIS. I'm a huge DT fan and this is one of my favourite albums of all time. A true masterpiece, and I've never noticed those moans until I read the story on this forum. Still it took me some time to notice them. I think it's just because I'm a music fan and once I started a CD, I got into trance. I let my mind fly and enjoy the art. I don't pay attention to this kind of insignificant details. Home is one of DT's greatest songs. Truly mesmerizing. Too bad that (like we say in Argentina) the tree hides the forest, for some people.

I think its an amazing song and I love it to death, but it does have some problems with introducing it to people, from my experience at least. Maybe its just me but I noticed it pretty fast, and I know others who heard it fast too.

And Rodni, I didnt said it offended me, just a friend of mine. And shes religious, they have all sort of nonsense Its like movies with curses or sex, some people just avoid those things, and even though I dont agree with them I dont judge them for it. Overall I just think the song could have done without these moans, thats all.

[TheCountOfNYC]

I grew up with Guns N Roses doing the same thing on Rocket Queen, so it's never really bothered me, but yeah, it is kind of naff.

Me too. And on that song it's worse because the sounds are...ahem...live recorded in the studio.

[Progmetty]

Honestly people who would have a problem with that section are not worth introducing new music to IMHO. I'm not trying to diss your friend RaasMah but I personally don't engage religious or right wing people in anything that I know might get them butt hurt and I wouldn't get out of my way to have them avoid the "offensive" part of something I like, I'd have them as friends if they're good company but I wouldn't try bringing my world into their's and I except them to do the same.

[Stadler]

Honestly people who would have a problem with that section are not worth introducing new music to IMHO. I'm not trying to diss your friend RaasMah but I personally don't engage religious or right wing people in anything that I know might get them butt hurt and I wouldn't get out of my way to have them avoid the "offensive" part of something I like, I'd have them as friends if they're good company but I wouldn't try bringing my world into their's and I except them to do the same.

Not a mod, I know, but treading on dangerous ground with the political stuff.  I'm basically "right wing", and while more spiritual than religious, I understand that feeling, and I only get "butt hurt" by people who engage in bad stereotyping.   Got no problem whatsoever with any of the sound effects on ANY DT album (or Rocket Queen for that matter).   It is art, it is the expression of the artist, and should be taken as such.   If that girl has a problem with the "moans", it's a function of that girl, not "religiosity" or being "right wing".   (Ted Nugent is "right wing" and he has a song called "My Love Is Like A Tire Iron" and was a notorious man-whore back in the day). 

[jsbru]

  (Ted Nugent is "right wing" and he has a song called "My Love Is Like A Tire Iron" and was a notorious man-whore back in the day).

That's even an understatement.  Nugent was basically a walking, talking hard-on.

This interview sums it all up:
https://crooksandliars.com/2015/02/ted-nugent-tells-gang-punks-internet-stop

The "pedophile" charge was most likely referring to a 1998 VH1 documentary where Nugent said that he had a history with young girls.

“I was addicted to girls. It was hopeless. It was beautiful,” Nugent said at the time. “I got the stamp of approval of their parents… I guess they figured better Ted Nugent than some drug-infested punk in high school.”

In the song "Jailbait," Nugent sang about his affection for young girls: "Well, I don't care if you're just 13 / You look too good to be true."

That said, the left (of which I am a proud member), has its own issues with repressed sexuality (political correctness, etc.), so I think there are offenders on both sides.

[RaasMah]

Well Religious people tend to avoid those stuff (not all ofc), and thats fine by me. A shame that they cant share my love of songs or movies that include stuff like that, but you know, to each his own. All Im saying is that these moans create sort of... antagonize? (not sure about the word) and Idd rather have them gone. Just my opinion.

And while in this case she indeed happen to be right wing, I dont connect it to her religion or her favor of music in any way. Theres no reason to assume religion = political side automatically (I have many left wing religious friends to prove it), and I try to avoid cataloging people like that.

[Progmetty]

Honestly people who would have a problem with that section are not worth introducing new music to IMHO. I'm not trying to diss your friend RaasMah but I personally don't engage religious or right wing people in anything that I know might get them butt hurt and I wouldn't get out of my way to have them avoid the "offensive" part of something I like, I'd have them as friends if they're good company but I wouldn't try bringing my world into their's and I except them to do the same.

Not a mod, I know, but treading on dangerous ground with the political stuff.  I'm basically "right wing", and while more spiritual than religious, I understand that feeling, and I only get "butt hurt" by people who engage in bad stereotyping.   Got no problem whatsoever with any of the sound effects on ANY DT album (or Rocket Queen for that matter).   It is art, it is the expression of the artist, and should be taken as such.   If that girl has a problem with the "moans", it's a function of that girl, not "religiosity" or being "right wing".   (Ted Nugent is "right wing" and he has a song called "My Love Is Like A Tire Iron" and was a notorious man-whore back in the day).

It's IMHO, derived from my own personal experiences and the experiences of people I know.
However I agree with you about the right wing part, I didn't take into consideration that specific Ted Nugent Mickey Rourke Arnold Schwarzenegger Chuck Norris type of right winging where it's not religion that drives them but rather a sense of amplified nationalism.
I had more to say here but I had to cut it short cause you're right; this is dangerous ground treading

And while in this case she indeed happen to be right wing, I dont connect it to her religion or her favor of music in any way. Theres no reason to assume religion = political side automatically (I have many left wing religious friends to prove it), and I try to avoid cataloging people like that.

I'm with you dude, I avoid cataloging except in the case where my purpose is avoidance itself, to avoid riling people up or losing them.

That said, the left (of which I am a proud member), has its own issues with repressed sexuality (political correctness, etc.), so I think there are offenders on both sides.

I'm a leftist too but I'm totally for PC dude, it's annoying cause it's called "PC" but if I can rename it "why fuck with people and make them feel like shit just cause you wanna yap?" then it would have a more compassionate vibe to it heh

[Calvin6s]

WTF is going on in this thread and what does it have to do with the thread topic?

[abydos]

I think someone was uncomfortable with sex.

[Progmetty]

Little derailment, we were orginally talking about the sex scene in Home, my bad 

[Train of Naught]

Let's get it back on track boys, my apparently controversial opinion: Build Me Up, Break Me Down is a top 96 DT song.

[MirrorMask]

I'll elaborate on that, and I'll say that all Dream Theater's "easy" songs are great, and never cheesy or commercial for the sake of wanting some airplay.

I Walk Beside You? wonderful uplifting tune, catchy as well, puts you in a good mood. Forsaken? awesome chorus, the best one in Systematic Chaos, it somehow reminds me of the Awake days, a gorgeous power ballad concise and to the point. Wither? Delicate and awesome ballad with wonderful melodies and gentle, delicate playing that shows that DT don't always have to show off. Even You Not Me is good, Desmond Child was hired to make it more catchy and that's what he did, if pop songs were this good, I'd listen to pop.

And so on and so forth.