Star Wars Discussion Thread v. Rise of Skywalker / Mandalorian (merged)

[lonestar]

I will always love Star Wars, but I have no love for anime.

So I hope you will all enjoy this to the fullest.  But I'm out.

Neither do I, but the first episode was really impressive.

[jammindude]

I made a brief mention in passing in a different thread about something that happened in The Last Jedi, and I just came to say that I’ve changed my mind about it.

When it first came out, I really liked the fact that it pissed off the tr00 fanbois, because maybe that’s just the Frank Zappa fan in me. But in retrospect, I really view the flaws in the execution and I can definitely see that Rian had zero interest in creating a story arc with any continuity whatsoever.

TFA I still feel is excellent. And the comparisons to ANH are warranted, but I don’t think they are as blatant as people make them out to be, and the differences and the better acting (compared to the prequels) made it easy to overlook the tiniest bit of self-plagiarism.

But ya, TLJ is just poorly executed on every level. If it was some sort of stand alone “alternative reality” kind of thing, it might have been ok. But Rian’s vision just seems bent on self-sabotage of the entire vision for the trilogy, and I’m surprised it got as far as it did without someone yanking him (like they did with the director of Solo when they saw that one going wrong during production)

[Polarbear]

I don't think TLJ was self-sabotage.

It has been stated by everyone involved that Rian was given essentially a blank slate, to make the movie he wanted to make. In hindsight, having no direction and overall plan for the sequel trilogy hurt it in the end. But I don't think he had any intention to sabotage the sequel trilogy, there just wasn't any plan other than "make the next episode in the sequel trilogy".

I think Rian was even quoted saying that he showed the script to KK, and she responded "Wow, that's risky. Go for it!"

[jammindude]

I don't think TLJ was self-sabotage.

It has been stated by everyone involved that Rian was given essentially a blank slate, to make the movie he wanted to make. In hindsight, having no direction and overall plan for the sequel trilogy hurt it in the end. But I don't think he had any intention to sabotage the sequel trilogy, there just wasn't any plan other than "make the next episode in the sequel trilogy".

I think Rian was even quoted saying that he showed the script to KK, and she responded "Wow, that's risky. Go for it!"

I’m not at a point where I hold any of KKs opinions in high regard. People in high places signed off on The Love Guru when Mike Myers thought it was a great idea. That doesn’t mean it was.

[The Letter M]

https://youtu.be/rOJ1cw6mohw

First trailer for The Book Of Boba Fett has dropped!

-Marc.

[jingle.boy]

https://youtu.be/rOJ1cw6mohw

First trailer for The Book Of Boba Fett has dropped!

-Marc.

Was just coming in here to do that.  Fuck this looks good.

[Kotowboy]

I wish The Rise of Skywalker had done Mike Stoklasa's crazy prediction of time travel and retconning the entire sequel trilogy a la Endgame.

That would have been way more fun than what we got.

But bottom line : plan your trilogy out before you start.

[Adami]

https://youtu.be/rOJ1cw6mohw

First trailer for The Book Of Boba Fett has dropped!

-Marc.

Was just coming in here to do that.  Fuck this looks good.

Looks cool!

[hefdaddy42]

Please. 

Speak freely.

[Kotowboy]

2024 : That Guy...Who Was Carrying The Thing..In Episode IV... A STAR WARS STORY


Also funny that Episode V is generally considered the best SW film whilst the "middle" ones of the next two trilogies are considered the absolute worst of their trilogies.

[The Letter M]

2024 : That Guy...Who Was Carrying The Thing..In Episode IV... A STAR WARS STORY


Also funny that Episode V is generally considered the best SW film whilst the "middle" ones of the next two trilogies are considered the absolute worst of their trilogies.

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but for the PT, most fans consider the third the best, while in the ST, most fans consider the first the best. So for each trilogy, a different placed film is the best of each trilogy. 

That being the case, then Episodes III, V and VII are the most well-received, which is funny from a story stand-point because the nonology starts slow and not that great, climaxes in the middle with a bit of up-and-down, then peters out towards the uninteresting finish.

-Marc.

[Kotowboy]

My Take :

OT : Pretty good. Not my cup of tea but easily the best trilogy.

PT : WTF. Three dreadful films back to back. ROTS is only the best by dint of being the least awful.

ST : Force Awakens was GREAT. TLJ was Ehhh Ok ? ROTS was stupid but entertaining enough for two hours. Overall not the disaster that everyone says. Nowhere near as awful

as the prequels and NO - a bad trilogy does not make a horrendous trilogy any better. The sequel trilogy only had bad scripts. On every other level it's far superior to the PT

in every technical way.

[Cool Chris]

Now here's a man who is comfortable with his grasp of the Star Wars universe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn4z5Vb2EFY

[Kotowboy]

Exactly. Han was a character he played in 3 films 30 years ago. It was a pay cheque. He probably thought they were all stupid make believe films.

[Stadler]

And yet, he's my favorite character in the entire Star Wars universe, and the only one I was even remotely hoping wasn't going to die (and of course, he's the one that did!)

[Kotowboy]

The two characters that died in the films are still alive in real life. Carrie fisher died IRL and Leia survived in the films.


...wait did Leia die in TROS ? I can't remember and i saw it twice !

[faizoff]

I don't remember exact details but Harrison Ford I think kinda grew out of the SW franchise and wanted to be killed off on many occasions. He didn't want to be in Return of the Jedi and originally wanted him to die off. I think the story was drafted that way but changed later on. I remember reading or seeing an interview with JJ Abrams that Ford would be involved with the new movies only if he was killed off. I think he retains some level of disdain for the franchise.

[Adami]

The two characters that died in the films are still alive in real life. Carrie fisher died IRL and Leia survived in the films.


...wait did Leia die in TROS ? I can't remember and i saw it twice !

I think she pulled a Yoda and just vanished. But I’ve only seen it once and did not enjoy it at all.

[Elite]

Also funny that Episode V is generally considered the best SW film whilst the "middle" ones of the next two trilogies are considered the absolute worst of their trilogies.

I personally think The Last Jedi is the best of the new trilogy.

The two characters that died in the films are still alive in real life. Carrie fisher died IRL and Leia survived in the films.


...wait did Leia die in TROS ? I can't remember and i saw it twice !

I think she pulled a Yoda and just vanished. But I’ve only seen it once and did not enjoy it at all.

Yes, the writers had to do something and supposedly had a larger role planned for Leia in the last film, but then she died and they had to write her out. It's not exactly a nice ending to a beloved character (or franchise .. my God, did that film suck. It's horrendous in every single way).

[Kotowboy]

Not every single way. Apart from the script it was technically superior to all the prequels.   

Acting. CG. Consistent tone etc. It had no plot. It was just dumb. But that’s why I enjoyed it 😂.

It was just dumb entertainment for two hours. I enjoyed it on that level.

[Cool Chris]

Harrison Ford has a working actor mentality where each job is just that, a job. He doesn't want to be defined by a role any more than Alec Guinness did, who I believe bristled when people would only associate him with Obi-Wan. That doesn't mean he doesn't appreciate his part in SW, or how that enabled him to have the career he has had. I remember when Peter Mayhew died, he spoke fondly of him; it was clear he wasn't just a rando actor he did some silly sci-fi film with 40 years ago. He also enjoys playing the curmudgeon. His first words at John Williams' AFI celebration, after walking out to the Indiana Jones theme were "That damn music follows me everywhere."

[Stadler]

Harrison Ford has a working actor mentality where each job is just that, a job. He doesn't want to be defined by a role any more than Alec Guinness did, who I believe bristled when people would only associate him with Obi-Wan. That doesn't mean he doesn't appreciate his part in SW, or how that enabled him to have the career he has had. I remember when Peter Mayhew died, he spoke fondly of him; it was clear he wasn't just a rando actor he did some silly sci-fi film with 40 years ago. He also enjoys playing the curmudgeon. His first words at John Williams' AFI celebration, after walking out to the Indiana Jones theme were "That damn music follows me everywhere."

I obviously don't know the man, and have never talked to him about this, but I think that is all pretty spot on.   At the end of the day, he DOES keep coming back to these franchise films; there is probably some pragmatism to that (dollars and cents) but still.  Being the star - or major co-star - of these franchise films is not a casual endeavor.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

Yesterday, I decided to start a marathon of Episodes I-IX for the first time ever. It's been years since I've seen some of those films. I'm interested to see how my thoughts about them have changed.

Coincidentally, yesterday was also the day that the Obi-Wan teaser (or whatever it's called) leaked, so I'm in the midst of a Star Wars overload right now.

I don't think TLJ was self-sabotage.

It has been stated by everyone involved that Rian was given essentially a blank slate, to make the movie he wanted to make. In hindsight, having no direction and overall plan for the sequel trilogy hurt it in the end. But I don't think he had any intention to sabotage the sequel trilogy, there just wasn't any plan other than "make the next episode in the sequel trilogy".

I think Rian was even quoted saying that he showed the script to KK, and she responded "Wow, that's risky. Go for it!"

If memory serves, my opinion of TLJ after the last time watching it was: I admire the ambition, I question some of the execution. The Luke story really worked for me but the casino stuff did not.

[hefdaddy42]

If memory serves, my opinion of TLJ after the last time watching it was: I admire the ambition, I question some of the execution. The Luke story really worked for me but the casino stuff did not.

That's exactly my thought on it.

[jingle.boy]

If memory serves, my opinion of TLJ after the last time watching it was: I admire the ambition, I question some of the execution. The Luke story really worked for me but the casino stuff did not.

That's exactly my thought on it.

I could accept the Luke storyline (old/jaded/recalcitrant), but the casino and space-chase was ludicrous.  Same with the comedic tone of the opening scene.  And the Rebellion dwindling down to a couple of dozen people that can fit on the Falcon??

[Kotowboy]

What I find funny is that people did not like the sequels - so therefore the prequels are...somehow.....good now ?

If your pizza is cold you don't say " man that dog shit I ate last night doesn't seem so bad now ! "

The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker had dumb scripts. But in every other way they're superior to the prequels.

Good CGI. Good acting. Good pacing. Exciting. Consistent tone. ( for the most part ).

The prequels were bad FILMS. Not just bad Star Wars.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

What I find funny is that people did not like the sequels - so therefore the prequels are...somehow.....good now ?

If your pizza is cold you don't say " man that dog shit I ate last night doesn't seem so bad now ! "

The Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker had dumb scripts. But in every other way they're superior to the prequels.

Good CGI. Good acting. Good pacing. Exciting. Consistent tone. ( for the most part ).

The prequels were bad FILMS. Not just bad Star Wars.

If I had to try and explain it, I would boil down the reevaluation of the prequels to a few factors:

- People become nostalgic for things over time. Hate him or love him, George Lucas no longer has anything to do with Star Wars, and the prequels represent the last time he did. Episodes 1-6 will always stand out for that reason.

- People are afraid of the mob. Now that the sequels are the scapegoat, a lot of the people who for a long time enjoyed certain aspects of the prequels are no longer afraid to give them some credit.

- The prequels have been expanded upon with countless games, novels, and television series. Over time, some of the oft-criticized moments of the prequels (e.g., ridiculous lightsaber battles) became widely accepted by the fan base because they made their way into more and more Star Wars media.

- The handling of the sequels by Lucasfilm was so botched that people began awarding the prequels bonus points for at least having a vision. "Intent is 9/10 of the law" essentially. I think that this is an interesting commentary on how subjective film reviews are and how much our opinions are influenced by external factors.

I fully expect the sequels to benefit from these same kinds of things over time. Disney will release two or three big-budget television series that will fill in a bunch of gaps, kids who dressed up as Kylo Ren and Rey for Halloween will grow up, and all of a sudden the sequels will be good now.

[Kotowboy]

in 10 years the sequels will 100% be getting the "They're not that bad???" treatment and then it will stop being trendy and cool to bash them.

[The Letter M]

On Disney+, they've posted a 1 minute sneak peek of next year's Obi-Wan series!

-Marc.

[jingle.boy]

On Disney+, they've posted a 1 minute sneak peek of next year's Obi-Wan series!

-Marc.

Yeah, it was cute - I'd read an article summarizing that clip a couple hours ago.  Still, I'm pretty jacked for this.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

As we were discussing earlier, it looks like potential projects are in the works that involve some of the new characters: https://www.ign.com/articles/star-wars-sequel-characters-could-return-in-new-projects

If I had to guess, I wouldn't expect to see anything soon, but at some point within the next 5-10 years. I remember reading that some of the actors were not thrilled with their character arcs in the movies, but time heals many wounds as do hefty paychecks.

[gmillerdrake]

For those of you who've watched Rebels.....this is pretty big news for a recent casting confirmation for the AHSOKA series...I'd have to say that they've captured the 'look' for sure. Hope she can capture the vibe and character as well.


https://brobible.com/sports/article/star-wars-fans-ecstatic-sabine-wren-casting-ahsoka-series/

[romdrums]

For those of you who've watched Rebels.....this is pretty big news for a recent casting confirmation for the AHSOKA series...I'd have to say that they've captured the 'look' for sure. Hope she can capture the vibe and character as well.


https://brobible.com/sports/article/star-wars-fans-ecstatic-sabine-wren-casting-ahsoka-series/

I just re-watched Rebels while home with COVID, and it was even better than I remembered.  A little clunky in the set up, but man, Filoni and Co.  hit it out of the park with that series, especially once they added Grand Admiral Thrawn.  I feel like they really got the balance right with the main characters, the relationship between Kanan and Ezra was really well done, and I loved all of the Mandalore stuff (it’s a shame Mandalore never made it into one of the main movies).  Also, the way they stitched the Rebellion together was really, really well done, and the series finale was awesome.  I would dare say it’s the best animated series they’ve done, and it’s nice to see Sabine Wren will be a part of the Ahsoka series.

[gmillerdrake]

For those of you who've watched Rebels.....this is pretty big news for a recent casting confirmation for the AHSOKA series...I'd have to say that they've captured the 'look' for sure. Hope she can capture the vibe and character as well.


https://brobible.com/sports/article/star-wars-fans-ecstatic-sabine-wren-casting-ahsoka-series/

I just re-watched Rebels while home with COVID, and it was even better than I remembered.  A little clunky in the set up, but man, Filoni and Co.  hit it out of the park with that series, especially once they added Grand Admiral Thrawn.  I feel like they really got the balance right with the main characters, the relationship between Kanan and Ezra was really well done, and I loved all of the Mandalore stuff (it’s a shame Mandalore never made it into one of the main movies).  Also, the way they stitched the Rebellion together was really, really well done, and the series finale was awesome.  I would dare say it’s the best animated series they’ve done, and it’s nice to see Sabine Wren will be a part of the Ahsoka series.

As a whole Rebels is the best animated series yet. As you made mention…… it has great character and world building and is just really well done. But the later seasons of Clone Wars were really good and the last four episodes in particular are IMO some of if not the best SW content out there.

[lonestar]

Is there a reason why the Boba Fett thread was locked?