Dream Theater self titled album discussion - [SPOILER FREE DISCUSSION ONLY]

[robwebster]

It's cool when you can hang out here every day, but every time someone goes away and tries to just skim the thread with new info I imagine they'd get pretty pissed when there's five pages of essentially nothing.

Yeah - every time I've seen there are multiple pages with new replies I've expected to read something interesting, but instead of that I've gotten... well, nothing. I know people are excited, but when there are pages of pointless concept album speculation, debates over the meaning of "centerpiece", complaints about 70-minute albums being too short, etc., I just...

For what it's worth, I think a lot of that is a natural hazard of putting all discussions of the new album into a centralised thread. Focused threads basically tend to stay on topic, general threads don't have one.

But frankly, I have way more fun reading (and occasionally participating in!) the discussions about the existence or not of a semantic difference between "progressive" and "prog," the speculations about concepts based on almost no evidence at all, and the slow revolution of the rumour mill than I ever have when someone's prompted another page of tedious complaints that this thread isn't substantial enough for them, so I'm going to stop contributing to that particular boring meta-narrative!

Incidentally, I'm complaining about the complaints, which I think basically crowns me the King of Tedium.

I'll make a flag.

ETA: Fucking hell, I have just noticed how confrontational this post looks. It's not meant to be!! Er, sprinkle some emoticons on it, stat!

In my defence, I was talking about the Conservative party in another window, so I think some of that bile might have spilled across the page. Sorry! To clarify beyond doubt, I think you're all basically ace!

[commanderbob]

The problem is that type of behavior can easily be toned down.
I'm not saying it's inherently wrong. Hell, I wasn't even on here for the last album cycle so I dunno how it's like. But I know I'm also super psyched and trying not to overload the thread with unnecessary stuff. It's cool when you can hang out here every day, but every time someone goes away and tries to just skim the thread with new info I imagine they'd get pretty pissed when there's five pages of essentially nothing.

Cue the 5 pages of debate over THIS now 

Us dogs need some MEAT!

Thanx Rich for the nibble, though

[wolven74]

Ok so... from all the speculation regarding the reviews that have yet to be officially posted by anyone, we can assume that the album is going to be good, perhaps great. From what we've heard from people who've gotten advanced copies, we can gather that the album is different from ADTOE, and we--the fans--won't be disappointed. Fair enough, in my book.

Do we really need more?

The album is out in just under 9 weeks. That's really not that long.

 

[bosk1]

So let me get this straight, to summarize the last 4-5 pages, there were some questions and complaints in regard to a review of the advance copy of the album and to its time of release. To encapsulate further the net conclusion of not only the last 4-5 pages, but perhaps the entirety of this thread thus far is...

...Soon.

The problem is that this forum is so active, and we're so hungry for information, and there are so many of us, that we just keep speculating, arguing, and begging.

The problem is that type of behavior can easily be toned down.

I'm not saying it's inherently wrong. Hell, I wasn't even on here for the last album cycle so I dunno how it's like. But I know I'm also super psyched and trying not to overload the thread with unnecessary stuff. It's cool when you can hang out here every day, but every time someone goes away and tries to just skim the thread with new info I imagine they'd get pretty pissed when there's five pages of essentially nothing.

I hear you, Milena. 

Don't take this as a criticism or as me calling you out.  I'm not.  In fact, I largely agree with you.  But just to share a bit of insight into my mindset on this issue:  I could very well ask the mods to be super-strict about keeping things on topic.  No joking.  No speculating without basis.  Just keep it strictly on topic, or have your posts deleted and get yelled at.  And to a degree, if something is just outright getting off topic or getting into areas they shouldn't, we eventually reign it in.  But by the same token, I want to allow enough freedom for people to post here in a loose, fun way because that's the general tone of this forum.  That means that, yes, everytime someone speculates about something without basis, there are going to be follow up posts that can drag it out a bit.  If someone just cracks a quick joke, and others pile on, that's another few posts.  And those kinds of things add up quickly when a thread is so large.  But as long as the thread doesn't get too out of control, I'm okay with that because here's the thing:  If people want the latest up to date information on what we officially know about the album, we have the tracker thread, which we update as information is officially released.  People can go there for the latest on what we actually know if they want to avoid all the other commentary.  And as far as when these little tangential things go "too far," there isn't a precise answer.  It's a judgment call.  I let people know when I feel it has gone too far off the rails, and I expect people to listen to and respect that.  And people usually do.  So while I agree with your point, it's also not realistic, and that's okay because there is a separate place on the forum to get the quick update without having to wade through all the discussion in here.

[wolven74]

Are you referring to the Fact Finder sticky, Bosk?

[sueño]

I, for one, want to jump in with a quick commendation on the moderation of this forum in general.

I've been a member of several forums (and moderated one) and I know how challenging it can be -- as well as knowing that DTF is at the top of my list for the balance of fun and respect for others that I've seen in my short tenure here.

Other forums can expand into virtual bloody messes that are distracting and depressing.  But this place is terrific.  Well done to you all!       

[Dream Team]

It's indeed very very excellent! Mr. Wilson's dread was most likely everybody's dread, and it's so good to see it dispelled, at least according to a trusted source.

I hardly think it is everyone's "dread". ADTOE was very well-received, I would be quite happy with ADTOE Pt2 provided the production and mix (especially the drums) was better. ADTOE is solidly in place at #2 for me behind I&W.

[cyberdrummer]

On the other hand, nobody likes to see stagnation. It's a difficult balance to strike between progression and breaking new ground, and maintaining a high quality.

[bosk1]

Are you referring to the Fact Finder sticky, Bosk?

Yes.

[Lucien]

It's indeed very very excellent! Mr. Wilson's dread was most likely everybody's dread, and it's so good to see it dispelled, at least according to a trusted source.

I hardly think it is everyone's "dread". ADTOE was very well-received, I would be quite happy with ADTOE Pt2 provided the production and mix (especially the drums) was better. ADTOE is solidly in place at #2 for me behind I&W.

[cyberdrummer]

I think he's actually in the majority. The drums were mixed way too low on ADTOE.

[theseoafs]

It's indeed very very excellent! Mr. Wilson's dread was most likely everybody's dread, and it's so good to see it dispelled, at least according to a trusted source.

I hardly think it is everyone's "dread". ADTOE was very well-received, I would be quite happy with ADTOE Pt2 provided the production and mix (especially the drums) was better. ADTOE is solidly in place at #2 for me behind I&W.

As much as I like ADTOE (probably at 4 or 5 in my ranking), I would be very unhappy if the band churned out another album that sounded just like it.  (Though I guess the angry posts about how DT12 copied ADTOE's song structures would be pretty funny.)

[TAC]

Bosk, this thread is fine the way it is. If I want to conserve my brain cells, I'll read the sticky thread. If I decide I have too many brain cells and feel the need to kill a few off, I'll jump into this thread.

[wolven74]

It's indeed very very excellent! Mr. Wilson's dread was most likely everybody's dread, and it's so good to see it dispelled, at least according to a trusted source.

I hardly think it is everyone's "dread". ADTOE was very well-received, I would be quite happy with ADTOE Pt2 provided the production and mix (especially the drums) was better. ADTOE is solidly in place at #2 for me behind I&W.

As much as I like ADTOE (probably at 4 or 5 in my ranking), I would be very unhappy if the band churned out another album that sounded just like it.  (Though I guess the angry posts about how DT12 copied ADTOE's song structures would be pretty funny.)

I'm going to state this with very little basis whatsoever...

From the tiny little snippet we heard in the "sound effects" portion of the In Studio pt 3, I think I can say that the drums are much farther forward in the mix this time. I think ADTOE could be seen as a test for MM. Perhaps he wasn't as comfortable in the band, not familiar with the bands methods, so he just did as told. This time, I would say he's more comfortable with asserting where he thinks he needs to be in the mix.

just a guess.

[MoraWintersoul]

Yeah, the more developed part of my post should have been about challenging the notion that simply because we are hungry for info we HAVE to go into endless speculation and tangents of tangents. For one, the only info that's left to be given to us is the single and track lengths. We're in the last stretch, we basically know everything. And the other thing is that I totally trust yours and other mods' judgment, and I definitely like the leniency of DTF and our cheerful spirit that results from not being heavily policed for going off topic sometimes, but I was just trying to put my finger on why I've been enjoying this thread way less lately. Could be that I'm a bit of a grumpy bastard

Anyway, since rob properly said complaints about complaints are THE WORST, let's bury this too.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I think he's actually in the majority. The drums were mixed way too low on ADTOE.

Indeed. A better drum sound would have improved that album greatly, in my opinion.

[bosk1]

Yeah, the more developed part of my post should have been about challenging the notion that simply because we are hungry for info we HAVE to go into endless speculation and tangents of tangents. For one, the only info that's left to be given to us is the single and track lengths. We're in the last stretch, we basically know everything. And the other thing is that I totally trust yours and other mods' judgment, and I definitely like the leniency of DTF and our cheerful spirit that results from not being heavily policed for going off topic sometimes, but I was just trying to put my finger on why I've been enjoying this thread way less lately. Could be that I'm a bit of a grumpy bastard

That reminds me of this phenomenon that I have have yet to hear anyone properly explaint, and which has mystified me for ages.  If an American girl said the words "grumpy bastard," or whatever, my reaction would be, "oh, well that's offputting.  She really needs to clear up her mouth."  Yet when an English girl says it, my reaction is, "that is SO hot!  "  Why is that?  /offtopic

[MoraWintersoul]

Yeah, the more developed part of my post should have been about challenging the notion that simply because we are hungry for info we HAVE to go into endless speculation and tangents of tangents. For one, the only info that's left to be given to us is the single and track lengths. We're in the last stretch, we basically know everything. And the other thing is that I totally trust yours and other mods' judgment, and I definitely like the leniency of DTF and our cheerful spirit that results from not being heavily policed for going off topic sometimes, but I was just trying to put my finger on why I've been enjoying this thread way less lately. Could be that I'm a bit of a grumpy bastard

That reminds me of this phenomenon that I have have yet to hear anyone properly explaint, and which has mystified me for ages.  If an American girl said the words "grumpy bastard," or whatever, my reaction would be, "oh, well that's offputting.  She really needs to clear up her mouth."  Yet when an English girl says it, my reaction is, "that is SO hot!  "  Why is that?  /offtopic

You're the second person here that mistook me for an English girl! Really dudes it's not even my first language let alone my place of birth. I'm blushing like mad here.
Unless you meant "any European girl".

[wolven74]

Because unlike some girls, Milena can speak with cool European accent!

[bosk1]

  That's right, I forgot. 

But my general point still stands.

[robwebster]

Yeah, the more developed part of my post should have been about challenging the notion that simply because we are hungry for info we HAVE to go into endless speculation and tangents of tangents. For one, the only info that's left to be given to us is the single and track lengths. We're in the last stretch, we basically know everything. And the other thing is that I totally trust yours and other mods' judgment, and I definitely like the leniency of DTF and our cheerful spirit that results from not being heavily policed for going off topic sometimes, but I was just trying to put my finger on why I've been enjoying this thread way less lately. Could be that I'm a bit of a grumpy bastard

That reminds me of this phenomenon that I have have yet to hear anyone properly explaint, and which has mystified me for ages.  If an American girl said the words "grumpy bastard," or whatever, my reaction would be, "oh, well that's offputting.  She really needs to clear up her mouth."  Yet when an English girl says it, my reaction is, "that is SO hot!  "  Why is that?  /offtopic

You're the second person here that mistook me for an English girl! Really dudes it's not even my first language let alone my place of birth. I'm blushing like mad here.
Unless you meant "any European girl".

Seriously - your English is indistinguishable from native English! It is both terrifying and marvellous.

My Serbian, on the other hand, is strasnim.

[Thematt202]

Yep, you're one of the most articulate and coherent posters on the forum.

[wasteland]

That's what I told her just 10 minutes ago! She's stunning, really 

[MoraWintersoul]

I'm going to die here

HEY HOW ABOUT THAT NEW DT ALBUM I HEARD THERE'S GONNA BE AN ORCHESTRA

[dparrott]

Mora sure had me fooled.

[cyberdrummer]

I'm happy to make you an honorary Briton. There aren't enough of us here!

[Elite]

*click profile*
*check location*



YES AN ORCHESTRA. I LOVE ME SOME ORCHESTRAS.

[wasteland]

I'm going to die here

*IRRELEVANT TEXT*

Don't try to shift the attention! Hell, you're getting a mass accolade Mili! 

[Lowdz]

My mate Phil from Fireworks magazine has a  review copy of DT DT. The lucky, lucky bastard.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

My mate Phil from Fireworks magazine has a  review copy of DT DT. The lucky, lucky bastard.

Where does he live?

[Lowdz]

My mate Phil from Fireworks magazine has a  review copy of DT DT. The lucky, lucky bastard.

Where does he live?

He's off to Scotland for a week, taking the album with him. Feel free to track him down and share the spoils!

[wasteland]

It should be interesting to know what's the usual number of advanced copy that a fairly big band like DT hands to the press. Just to know another fact about the industry. Is it dozens? Or hundreds?

And I'm told that special care has been taken by the label/band to make sure that any leaked material would allow immediate identification of the original source 

[wolven74]

I'm going to die here

*IRRELEVANT TEXT*

Don't try to shift the attention! Hell, you're getting a mass accolade Mili! 

You're a great poster, Mora. I appreciate the concise and informative posts. You're opinions are rarely, if ever, without basis. Thank you for that.

JP said it was a string section

[chrisbDTM]

I was dreading a "formula" DT record, which this isn't. That's all folks!

this is the best thing i can hear leading up to the release

[Hanz Gruber]

I actually *prefer* more shorter songs and just the one epic.

Black Clouds had only two short songs and four massive songs.

A nightmare to remember just goes on and on and on.

You can't really just *throw a song on* from that album because you've only got two to choose from if you don't want an epic.

Same here.  I prefer that a DT albums has more songs (like Awake, Scenes, and Falling)

An album like Black Clouds was disappointing to me personally because it had so few songs and some of them felt stretched to for the sake of filling the disc.  Does a song like "The Best of Times" have to be 13 minutes?  An epic like Change of Seasons made sense being long but something like "The Best of Times" didn't have to be.

I like all DT albums (even Black Clouds and SC) but they seemed to start going down a path in which they may have felt that they had to make almost every song 10 plus minutes.  Sometimes less is more.  Look at Misunderstood.  It had that long scratchy section that added nothing to the song IMO when I wish they would have ended it minutes earlier.