Official Neal Morse Appreciation Thread

[DoctorAction]

I need to get me some more Neal. I struggle with his very strongly worded Christian records but love the Whirlwind and Transatlantic generally. Would The Grand Experiment fit for me, do you think?

[Fritzinger]

I need to get me some more Neal. I struggle with his very strongly worded Christian records but love the Whirlwind and Transatlantic generally. Would The Grand Experiment fit for me, do you think?

I think so, yes. Most of Neal's music has that "spiritual" touch, but compared to Testimony or Sola Gratia, it's not that present on The Grand Experiment. And especially for a Transatlantic fan, this album is a good fit, I think.

[DoctorAction]

Thanks, man. I notice he sells it digitally in lossless on his site so I'm gonna do that. 

[The Letter M]

I need to get me some more Neal. I struggle with his very strongly worded Christian records but love the Whirlwind and Transatlantic generally. Would The Grand Experiment fit for me, do you think?

I think so, yes. Most of Neal's music has that "spiritual" touch, but compared to Testimony or Sola Gratia, it's not that present on The Grand Experiment. And especially for a Transatlantic fan, this album is a good fit, I think.

I'd also toss out Momentum, previously his last solo record before the NMB formed for TGE. It's a bit more secular, in an early-SB kind-of way, at least less spiritual than his previous solo albums.

-Marc.

[darkshade]

I need to get me some more Neal. I struggle with his very strongly worded Christian records but love the Whirlwind and Transatlantic generally. Would The Grand Experiment fit for me, do you think?

I'd recommend Sola Scriptura or One, for the music is the best, and at least SS is telling a story more than it is preachy.
Momentum is a good choice lyrically, as Letter M stated, it might not be Neal's best prog-related album but it's not his worst either.
The ones with a lot of "God" and "Jesus" in the lyrics would be:
Testimony 1, and Testimony 2 to a lesser extent, Question Mark (?), One, and Lifeline.
I can't comment on anything he's released the last 5 years I'm going to visiting that stuff myself soon enough, but I believe the Christian lyrics are at a minimum on recent stuff as well, at least besides Sola Gratia from what I see in the previous posts.

[ErHaO]

I need to get me some more Neal. I struggle with his very strongly worded Christian records but love the Whirlwind and Transatlantic generally. Would The Grand Experiment fit for me, do you think?

Personally, as someone not into those type of lyrics either, The Neal Morse Band records are his best (so Experiment, Adventure and Dream).

[DoctorAction]

Thanks, guys. I had ? On CD when it was released but the God was to high in the mix for me on that one. Have just bought TGE so we'll see.

[Stadler]

I need to get me some more Neal. I struggle with his very strongly worded Christian records but love the Whirlwind and Transatlantic generally. Would The Grand Experiment fit for me, do you think?

Admittedly, the lyrics don't bother me, but I've taken to interpreting them more generally: "Supernatural" to me is about love, not god.   But if it does make a difference to you - and I understand that - on The Grand Experiment, knowing Neal you know full well what he's talking about on "The Call" and "Agenda", but it's not beating you in the face.  On Momentum, the only song I can think of that is hard to get by if you don't like "strongly worded Christian records" is "Freak", and even that is really allegory, not praise.  "Weathering Sky", my favorite song on that record is, for me, about encountering hardship and adversity; there's nothing inherently "Christian" about that.

[Peter Mc]

I have to be honest and say I don’t really pay any attention to Neal’s lyrics. Not in a bad way but I just don’t dig into them at all. I’ve got zero clue what Sola Scriptura or Sola Gratia are about or the last 2 NMB albums.  It doesn’t hinder my enjoyment of them though.  I mean there are some like Heaven In My Heart and others where it’s very clear that it’s a “Christian” song.  Honestly though, for the vast majority of the time, I just listen along and get swept up in them without stopping to think about what he is singing about.  Not that there is anything wrong in him singing about this stuff, that’s obviously what he feels passionately about and that’s why we get these incredible records.

The Grand Experiment is not my favourite though, I have to say.

[Kwyjibo]

I've got no problem with christian lyrics and I've got no problem with religious lyrics in general. What I don't like are preachy lyrics, lyrics that tell me what I should believe, lyrics that tell me what is right and what is wrong. And on Neal's prog records you don't get that imo.

[ShadowWalker]

I've got no problem with christian lyrics and I've got no problem with religious lyrics in general. What I don't like are preachy lyrics, lyrics that tell me what I should believe, lyrics that tell me what is right and what is wrong. And on Neal's prog records you don't get that imo.

Exactly. I listen to a lot of what Neal Morse does and I never feel like I am being preached at. Maybe some of his Worship CDs have that aspect (but I have none of those in my collection). His music stuff feels more like he is celebrating his faith, not telling me what I should be believing. I like listening because the music and the message is very uplifting and positive, a welcome sound in these hard times, even though I can't say I subscribe to his belief system.

[DoctorAction]

Yeah, that's totally true. He's not telling me what to do. But I wouldn't expect him to either.

Just to be clear, it's definitely me not him. I'm not complaining about the Christian words. Lyrics in music are extremely important to me. A lot of people say they don't think about them at all etc but it makes or breaks much music for me these days. And my reaction to a very literal Christian statement in a song is an internal, "oh, please..!!". I can't help it, I'm not saying it's right, it's just what happens to me when I'm listening. Even though his less overt lyrics are saying v similar things, I can totally relate to them.

Neal's sincere expression of his faith is what makes him so beautiful to listen so, yeah. It's me not him. I don't want him to change. 

If there's one thing i wish he would do is get Ryo and Dave, Alan and Ted together with Mike P and do a Super Spocks record! 

[Peter Mc]

Not sure I get the Spock’s Beard issue.  I understand initially he gave everything up to see what God wanted him to do.  He then rejoined Transatlantic though and continued to make music in the vein of Spock’s Beard as a solo artist. Why not just do it with Spock’s Beard? Would they baulk at the Christian stuff? Snow was a very religious album and I don’t know this for sure, as I don’t follow them anymore, but I would think they don’t sell many records without him.

[darkshade]

I'm glad Neal isn't writing for SB anymore, he has better musicians on his own albums/Transatlantic, plus, I never liked the guitarist's style, tones and sounds in Spock's.

Not sure I get the Spock’s Beard issue.  I understand initially he gave everything up to see what God wanted him to do.  He then rejoined Transatlantic though and continued to make music in the vein of Spock’s Beard as a solo artist. Why not just do it with Spock’s Beard? Would they baulk at the Christian stuff? Snow was a very religious album and I don’t know this for sure, as I don’t follow them anymore, but I would think they don’t sell many records without him.

Were they big sellers WITH Neal? Other than Dream Theater, what 90s prog bands were doing extremely well financially back then?

[Fritzinger]

I'm glad Neal isn't writing for SB anymore, he has better musicians on his own albums/Transatlantic, plus, I never liked the guitarist's style, tones and sounds in Spock's.

I strongly disagree. I think it's not fair to say he has "better" musicians now. Nick D'Virgilio is a phenomenal drummer and everyone who says otherwise has no idea what he's talking about 
Dave Meros is great on bass and not at all worse than Pete Trevawas or Randy George. I love his Chris Squire-like style. Ryo Okumoto and Alan Morse might not be as technical or versatile as Hubauer and Gillette, but they have very unique identities on their instruments. As have the other two. That is why Spock will alway sound like Spock, while Neal Morse solo will always sound like Neal Morse solo, no matter with whom he plays.

[Peter Mc]

I'm glad Neal isn't writing for SB anymore, he has better musicians on his own albums/Transatlantic, plus, I never liked the guitarist's style, tones and sounds in Spock's.

Not sure I get the Spock’s Beard issue.  I understand initially he gave everything up to see what God wanted him to do.  He then rejoined Transatlantic though and continued to make music in the vein of Spock’s Beard as a solo artist. Why not just do it with Spock’s Beard? Would they baulk at the Christian stuff? Snow was a very religious album and I don’t know this for sure, as I don’t follow them anymore, but I would think they don’t sell many records without him.

Were they big sellers WITH Neal? Other than Dream Theater, what 90s prog bands were doing extremely well financially back then?

Not suggesting they were big sellers but they had a decent and growing fan base.  I would suspect that they are not doing as well following his departure but that might just be my own bias as I don’t listen to their stuff post Neal.  I tried the first one out of loyalty but it just wasn’t for me.

I’m not suggesting Neal’s SB is better than Neal solo or NMB nor am I saying it isn’t.  Just curious why he didn’t go back to them once he got back into making prog albums. They were his band anyway to all intents and purposes and would be nice to see them playing that stuff with him on tour.

[DoctorAction]

Those guys in Spocks are amazing musicians afaic. I'd take any of them over other musos Neal has played with. (I don't know why I didn't mention NDV in my previous posts. Just oversight. Stupendous drummer and singer.)

The Grand Experiment is fun so far. Except Agenda. 

[darkshade]

I'm glad Neal isn't writing for SB anymore, he has better musicians on his own albums/Transatlantic, plus, I never liked the guitarist's style, tones and sounds in Spock's.

I strongly disagree. I think it's not fair to say he has "better" musicians now. Nick D'Virgilio is a phenomenal drummer and everyone who says otherwise has no idea what he's talking about 
Dave Meros is great on bass and not at all worse than Pete Trevawas or Randy George. I love his Chris Squire-like style. Ryo Okumoto and Alan Morse might not be as technical or versatile as Hubauer and Gillette, but they have very unique identities on their instruments. As have the other two. That is why Spock will alway sound like Spock, while Neal Morse solo will always sound like Neal Morse solo, no matter with whom he plays.

I actually like Meros' playing, and I've never thought much of Nick's playing other than 'solid'. Alan Morse's style just doesn't do it for me, though. Sounds too much like 90s alt-rock to me when Neal was in the band.

[darkshade]

I’m not suggesting Neal’s SB is better than Neal solo or NMB nor am I saying it isn’t.  Just curious why he didn’t go back to them once he got back into making prog albums. They were his band anyway to all intents and purposes and would be nice to see them playing that stuff with him on tour.

All I can say is he didn't really stop making prog albums. Spock's Beard last album with Neal was Snow in 2002, and Testimony came out in 2003, if I'm not mistaken, followed by One in 04 and ? in 05.

[Kwyjibo]

90s alt-rock is the last thing that comes to mind when I think of Alan Morse. 

He's no shredder but he's got a unique somewhat quirky style and I like his playing a lot. And Nick is so much more than solid.

[Peter Mc]

I’m not suggesting Neal’s SB is better than Neal solo or NMB nor am I saying it isn’t.  Just curious why he didn’t go back to them once he got back into making prog albums. They were his band anyway to all intents and purposes and would be nice to see them playing that stuff with him on tour.

All I can say is he didn't really stop making prog albums. Spock's Beard last album with Neal was Snow in 2002, and Testimony came out in 2003, if I'm not mistaken, followed by One in 04 and ? in 05.

It may seem that way in terms of timescales but, if memory serves, when he announced that he was quitting SB, he basically announced he was quitting music altogether, he was giving everything up to see what path God wanted him to take.  There was a definite feeling on my part that he was totally finished and we may never get any more music from him.  I was overjoyed when Testimony was eventually announced and it was clear that he would continue to make music in a similar vein to SB.

[Stadler]

Yeah, that's totally true. He's not telling me what to do. But I wouldn't expect him to either.

Just to be clear, it's definitely me not him. I'm not complaining about the Christian words. Lyrics in music are extremely important to me. A lot of people say they don't think about them at all etc but it makes or breaks much music for me these days. And my reaction to a very literal Christian statement in a song is an internal, "oh, please..!!". I can't help it, I'm not saying it's right, it's just what happens to me when I'm listening. Even though his less overt lyrics are saying v similar things, I can totally relate to them.

Neal's sincere expression of his faith is what makes him so beautiful to listen so, yeah. It's me not him. I don't want him to change. 

If there's one thing i wish he would do is get Ryo and Dave, Alan and Ted together with Mike P and do a Super Spocks record! 

Are you like that with other lyrics that aren't "Christian" in nature?   I don't know you, we haven't talked about this before, but the topic in general has come up, and it's always fascinating where people - again not you - draw the line.  I think there IS - generally, again, not about you - something that some people find particularly off-putting about Christianity in lyrics, and I'm not quite sure why.   I have to listen to Neil Young and Michael Stipe and Eddie Vedder and Thom Yorke jamming their political nonsense down my throat (HAHAHA, I'm kidding: I don't have to listen to anything I don't want to) and not only is that okay, but it's often celebrated.  Make no mistake, Ed Vedder is ABSOLUTELY preaching to you. 

[425]

I also find this phenomenon interesting, Stadler. There are a lot of artists out there putting out their worldview in their lyrics, and many of them I don't agree with. Some of the time those disagreements don't bother me, and some of the time they do. But there's nothing special about Christianity for me in that regard, even though I am an atheist who disagrees quite deeply with the major messages of Christianity. I'd honestly much rather hear Neal Morse tell me a Christian story he finds inspiring than listen to, say, Steven Wilson tell me a depressing story about some person who lived a futile life and died.

[gzarruk]

I'm a Christian, so I obviously have no issues with Neal's Christian lyrics

[bluefox4000]

As far as Neal's lyrics go.   they are lost on me but as others have noted.  i never feel like i'm being preached at.  he's sharing his passion.  if i felt i was being preached at i wouldn't even bother with his music.  THE ONLY time i felt close to preached at was the Lifeline album.  as a result it's my least fav.

[Stadler]

I find myself "preached at" far more by a guy like Kerry King than I do Neal Morse.  Neal Morse isn't telling Kerry King (and by extension, his fans) that he's a sheep or anything like that; there's an element of that in some of the more extreme metal bands. 

[kirksnosehair]

I haven't paid any attention to a Neal Morse solo album lyric since, hell, since Testimony.  Once he got on the god train, I stopped paying attention because I just have no interest whatsoever.  I still buy the albums and I still enjoy most of the songs but I admit that I skip past quite a bit of the more Jesus-y stuff.  For example the final track to The Whirlwind - unlistenable.  It's a perfect album with that track removed, though. 

[Fritzinger]

I'm glad Neal isn't writing for SB anymore, he has better musicians on his own albums/Transatlantic, plus, I never liked the guitarist's style, tones and sounds in Spock's.

I strongly disagree. I think it's not fair to say he has "better" musicians now. Nick D'Virgilio is a phenomenal drummer and everyone who says otherwise has no idea what he's talking about 
Dave Meros is great on bass and not at all worse than Pete Trevawas or Randy George. I love his Chris Squire-like style. Ryo Okumoto and Alan Morse might not be as technical or versatile as Hubauer and Gillette, but they have very unique identities on their instruments. As have the other two. That is why Spock will alway sound like Spock, while Neal Morse solo will always sound like Neal Morse solo, no matter with whom he plays.

I actually like Meros' playing, and I've never thought much of Nick's playing other than 'solid'. Alan Morse's style just doesn't do it for me, though. Sounds too much like 90s alt-rock to me when Neal was in the band.

I just rewatched A Mead Hall In Winter by Big Big Train live at the Night Of The Prog Festival in 2018 (and saw myself rocking out in the first row haha) and I can't stress enough that Nick D'Virgilio's playing is far more than "solid". He is definitely one of my favourite drummers of all time! Unfortunately, that video is only available for members of The Passengers Club (BBT's fan club), so I can't share it here  BBT is also one of my top 10 favourite bands by now, Mead Hall is one of my favourite songs of the last five years and watching this always leaves completely amazed.

I've been thinking about what video to show you that portrays Nick's insane drumming. It's always laid back and subtle, it serves the song, but it's also virtuose. I'm gonna leave these two videos here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_i-uqGNzgU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX5X19aHZ2M
His singing (background or lead) is also great.

But maybe someone has some ideas for live videos that might convince darkshade of this musician? 

[Ben_Jamin]

Neal Morse incorporated Gospel into his music. Which Testimony 1/2 and The Sola Albums can be considered Gospel Prog, or more Prog Gospel. It's a part of his music style now, since finding God. It does make for some Epic sounding endings though, which he overdid for me.

I don't know how else to say it other than, When you listen to Neal Morse, you are gonna get some Gospel in his music, it's a part of him. At least he has different outlets of how strong he wants to Gospel to be heard in his music.

Flying Colors is the only Neal Morse and Mike Portnoy project where you can't feel one personality dominating, and Neal doesn't have much of his Gospel at all.

[DoctorAction]

Yeah, that's totally true. He's not telling me what to do. But I wouldn't expect him to either.

Just to be clear, it's definitely me not him. I'm not complaining about the Christian words. Lyrics in music are extremely important to me. A lot of people say they don't think about them at all etc but it makes or breaks much music for me these days. And my reaction to a very literal Christian statement in a song is an internal, "oh, please..!!". I can't help it, I'm not saying it's right, it's just what happens to me when I'm listening. Even though his less overt lyrics are saying v similar things, I can totally relate to them.

Neal's sincere expression of his faith is what makes him so beautiful to listen so, yeah. It's me not him. I don't want him to change. 

If there's one thing i wish he would do is get Ryo and Dave, Alan and Ted together with Mike P and do a Super Spocks record! 

Are you like that with other lyrics that aren't "Christian" in nature?   I don't know you, we haven't talked about this before, but the topic in general has come up, and it's always fascinating where people - again not you - draw the line.  I think there IS - generally, again, not about you - something that some people find particularly off-putting about Christianity in lyrics, and I'm not quite sure why.   I have to listen to Neil Young and Michael Stipe and Eddie Vedder and Thom Yorke jamming their political nonsense down my throat (HAHAHA, I'm kidding: I don't have to listen to anything I don't want to) and not only is that okay, but it's often celebrated.  Make no mistake, Ed Vedder is ABSOLUTELY preaching to you.

I'm not sure any of them are preaching to me. Something to write a song about is what most songwriters are after, I would guess. I just can't understand the Christian stuff.

Kerry King's lyrics in the later Slayer records were about the most offensively bad that lyrics can get. Much worse than anything i didn't enjoy from Neal. I didn't buy those later Slayer albums either and it ruined that band for me.

Edit: But I didn't feel Kerry King was preaching to me, I just thought the lyrics were cringe-worthily poor.

One more thought, a musician standing on a stage singing or yelling their opinion or viewpoint to an audience seems very similar to a religious minister preaching to a congregation in a temple, now I think about it. That's interesting. But the parallel doesn't bother me wrt music.

[Peter Mc]

I find myself "preached at" far more by a guy like Kerry King than I do Neal Morse.  Neal Morse isn't telling Kerry King (and by extension, his fans) that he's a sheep or anything like that; there's an element of that in some of the more extreme metal bands.

I just think that Rock music has always been seen to a degree as “The devil’s music” and rock fans want to hear songs about sex drugs and rock n’ roll or anti-establishment stuff.  Not songs about how much the artist loves Jesus.  That’s a big oversimplification but, whilst I own and love my Neal Morse albums, I do sometimes cringe inside when he overtly talks about Jesus in his songs.  Those moments are few and far between though and that’s my issue not Neal’s. 

I also think there’s a difference in Pearl Jam and others preaching about real world issues and Christian’s preaching about some magical being that they believe lived thousands of years ago.  I don’t mean that to sound dismissive, just trying to put it in a brief way.  Millions of people share that belief and that’s absolutely fine, I wish I had that strong faith and belief in something.

As I said earlier though, Neal’s passionate belief and faith is what fuels him to make this music that I love and I am grateful for it.

[Stadler]

I also think there’s a difference in Pearl Jam and others preaching about real world issues and Christian’s preaching about some magical being that they believe lived thousands of years ago.  I don’t mean that to sound dismissive, just trying to put it in a brief way.  Millions of people share that belief and that’s absolutely fine, I wish I had that strong faith and belief in something.

As I said earlier though, Neal’s passionate belief and faith is what fuels him to make this music that I love and I am grateful for it.

I think your last sentence is really key.  It's either passionate belief or it's not.  FOR ME, who doesn't dismiss other people's faith as belief in "magical beings that they believe lived thousands of years ago", I don't see a difference between Neal professing his belief and Eddie Vedder professing his belief, just because his belief happens to be in some liberal political policies.  Frankly, I see BOTH as fanciful in certain ways (my better example here is something like "Hail To The Thief", which I thought was ridiculous).  I respect Ed Vedder for his passion, but I personally think many of his political views are unsubstantiated and untenable; a position that many take regarding God (as you've written).

[425]

Definitely agree with Stadler. I won't go into specifics to avoid unnecessary diversions into P/R territory, but, as an atheist, there are plenty of political proposals that I find as entirely unsubstantiated as belief in God. And many of those proposals are expressed in far more personally offensive terms than Neal's lyrics about Christianity. It might be a different situation for me if Neal was constantly singing about how those who don't believe in God are worthless people who deserve nothing but scorn. But that's not what's going on.

And just from his music and onstage persona, I get the sense that if I met Neal, he would treat me with complete respect and kindness even if he knew that I am not religious. People here who have met him can correct me if I'm mistaken, but even if he's secretly a jerk in person, that's certainly not what he puts out in his music and persona. Whereas I have no sense at all that, to go to the extreme opposite case, Roger Waters would show any sort of respect to someone who disagrees with him about Israel.

[DoctorAction]

I don't know Hail To The Thief. Radiohead, by the looks of it? I don't remember any Pearl Jam songs that were unusually political.

Either way, religion and politics are different to me, in that politics is talking about the material world we all live and religion is talking about the supernatural.

[Stadler]

Others probably know better than I do, but I met him once, and I made a point of saying that even if I didn't follow the letter of the words, the spirit - the fact that his lyrics are positive and affirming - was powerful.   He struck me as being...  not loopy, but sort of "California surf dude" aloof.  His answer to my comment was not at all what I expected; it was "well, that's really the point, isn't it?!" with a friendly laugh, and that told me that he was open as to impact of his lyrics (i.e. there wasn't preaching but if someone bought in, all the better).