DreamSonic 2023

[Mladen]

That's what he does on the drummer audition videos. You can see drummers talk to JP, JLB and JR, and John Myung is just playing bass with volume off in the background. 

[TAC]

That's what he does on the drummer audition videos. You can see drummers talk to JP, JLB and JR, and John Myung is just playing bass with volume off in the background. 

He did the same back in the day in that goofy video in MP's basement.

[Architeuthis]

  Gotta love John Myung!  He played awesome last night despite his injury. I'm still so proud of the turnout for this show in Redmond Washington, the place was packed with a very enthusiastic crowd that stood the whole time. Large outdoor amphitheater and I felt like I was leaving a well attended Rush concert after the show. It took a while to get out of the parking lot afterwards too.   

[cramx3]

Gotta love John Myung!  He played awesome last night despite his injury. I'm still so proud of the turnout for this show in Redmond Washington, the place was packed with a very enthusiastic crowd that stood the whole time. Large outdoor amphitheater and I felt like I was leaving a well attended Rush concert after the show. It took a while to get out of the parking lot afterwards too.   

Good to hear

and damn JM, wtf happened while I have criticized him a bit myself this tour, he's a champ for pulling through and deserves credit

[crystalstars17]

Gotta love John Myung!  He played awesome last night despite his injury. I'm still so proud of the turnout for this show in Redmond Washington, the place was packed with a very enthusiastic crowd that stood the whole time. Large outdoor amphitheater and I felt like I was leaving a well attended Rush concert after the show. It took a while to get out of the parking lot afterwards too.   

Good to hear

and damn JM, wtf happened while I have criticized him a bit myself this tour, he's a champ for pulling through and deserves credit

I hope he's ok. 😱

[zappafrank2112]

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but "The Portnoy Incident" is a far bigger issue for me than James' singing.  Sorry, it just is.  (But even then, I'm STILL on board).

I've seen this referred to, but gotta admit I don't know exactly what it is...

[Herrick]

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but "The Portnoy Incident" is a far bigger issue for me than James' singing.  Sorry, it just is.  (But even then, I'm STILL on board).

I've seen this referred to, but gotta admit I don't know exactly what it is...

I think it has to do with Portnoy criticizing LaBrie on a podcast or something. I don't know what he means about still being on board though.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but "The Portnoy Incident" is a far bigger issue for me than James' singing.  Sorry, it just is.  (But even then, I'm STILL on board).

I've seen this referred to, but gotta admit I don't know exactly what it is...

I think it has to do with Portnoy criticizing LaBrie on a podcast or something. I don't know what he means about still being on board though.

Is this the 'Dream Theater without annoying vocals' comment?

[gzarruk]

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but "The Portnoy Incident" is a far bigger issue for me than James' singing.  Sorry, it just is.  (But even then, I'm STILL on board).

I've seen this referred to, but gotta admit I don't know exactly what it is...

I think it has to do with Portnoy criticizing LaBrie on a podcast or something. I don't know what he means about still being on board though.

Is this the 'Dream Theater without annoying vocals' comment?

I remember that one

[RaiseTheKnife]

I'm seeing DT this Tuesday.  Can anyone give a general idea of when DT take the stage? 

[TAC]

It was 9:30 here.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but "The Portnoy Incident" is a far bigger issue for me than James' singing.  Sorry, it just is.  (But even then, I'm STILL on board).

I've seen this referred to, but gotta admit I don't know exactly what it is...

I think it has to do with Portnoy criticizing LaBrie on a podcast or something. I don't know what he means about still being on board though.

Is this the 'Dream Theater without annoying vocals' comment?

I remember that one

I can't imagine what else it would be. They're made up and friends now and I think in the last few years, they've both tried to avoid saying anything whatsoever about each other.

[Herrick]

It was 9:30 here.

That was about the same time in NY I think. The concert started at 7pm and DT started playing some time between 9:30 & 10:00. I was surprised how quickly everything was set up between bands.

[RaiseTheKnife]

Thanks TAC and Herrick, that gives me a solid idea to plan around. 

[Architeuthis]

The show started at 6:00 in Redmond  and ended right at 10pm.  Dream Theater started at 8:30.

[Mladen]

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but "The Portnoy Incident" is a far bigger issue for me than James' singing.  Sorry, it just is.  (But even then, I'm STILL on board).

I've seen this referred to, but gotta admit I don't know exactly what it is...

I think it has to do with Portnoy criticizing LaBrie on a podcast or something. I don't know what he means about still being on board though.

Is this the 'Dream Theater without annoying vocals' comment?

I don't think Stadler would bring up a comment from years ago, given that James and Mike made up in the meantime. Are you thinking of something more recent, Stadler? I'm genuinely curious now.

[Stadler]

I don't want to open a can of worms here, but "The Portnoy Incident" is a far bigger issue for me than James' singing.  Sorry, it just is.  (But even then, I'm STILL on board).

I've seen this referred to, but gotta admit I don't know exactly what it is...

No, nothing to overthink here.  I've been candid that before September 8, 2010, Dream Theater was an upper eschelon band for me.  EVERYTHING I loved about a band.  I loved the Ytsejam stuff, I loved the commentaries on the videos, I loved the setlists, I loved the insider baseball (the covers, the making ofs, etc.) and especially I loved the fan interaction (I posted regularly over at Mike's site).  He left.  I like Mangini, but it's not the same FOR ME.  I'm not looking to resurrect anything, I'm talking about me only and my feelings.   The band wasn't the same for me (and still isn't).  I have commented on several occasions that even musically, it's not the same; they're both busy drummers, but I just prefer MPs style.

The "Portnoy Incident" is just him leaving the band.

[smegolas]

Just got home. I have to say that when I heard TSCO was going to be the encore, I was prepared to be underwhelmed. But that 3 band jam was OFF THE CHART good. Those guys were having so much fun, and Devy sang his parts so well I started wishing that HE had sang DTs entire set.

I did have fun. JLB was spotty.  When he completely crapped out on The Alien straight out of the gate, I expected the worst.  But he actually pulled out the rest of the performance really well. As some people have hinted, I don’t think he needs to hang it up, I just think he needs to completely re-train himself to use his lower register and learn new harmonies during tour rehearsals so that it’s completely dialed in by the time you hit the stage.

Everyone else seems to be playing at the top of their game. But there’s another elephant in the room… the show in general.

I don’t even like Devin’s music as much as DT’s, but he absolutely blew Dream Theater off the stage.  His performances and stage presence and banter are miles better.

I absolutely love JLB, and I love his voice, and I think he should do some training and stick around…but I’ve always thought he was an awkward “frontman”.  And when your voice is struggling, it just makes the other issues stand out more. And then you have that package following Devin?  That’s tough.  And then hearing Devy just *nail* the bridge and final chorus on TSCO seemed to underline it even more.   IDK, you’d think that after 30 years JLB would be more comfortable with his stage banter and crowd interaction, but it still feels a bit canned sometimes.

You nailed it. I think touring with Devin, and particularity having Devin sing TSCO with James has highlighted just how terrible James has become. I get that people love him and he's been with the band for a very long time, but he is DONE. The show literally went from a 1 with vocals to a 10 during the instrumental sections. Unfortunately it always went back to a 1 again. I know what its like to play in a band with one member not pulling their weight. Incredibly frustrating. I can only imagine what it's like if this is your career and youre one of the most musically talented bands in history, and yet your show is torpedoed night after night by one guy. I guarantee it's driving them all nuts. I guarantee they have James turned down to almost zero in their monitors so they dont have to hear it. They likely only have a few years left. They owe it to their fans to go out strongly and not like this. The rest of the band is still at the top of their game. Its ridiculous! This is going to start impacting their livelihoods. Im not sure I would see them again and I love DT! Seeing them with a guy like Devon as their singer would be incredible. But unfortunately I think JP is too nice a guy to do what needs to be done.

[cramx3]

  JLB is not done and they have more than a few years left.  Please stop with the over exaggeration.

[crystalstars17]

JLB is not done and they have more than a few years left.  Please stop with the over exaggeration.

Second this! This type of "exaggeration" is exactly what I was referring to that needs to stop.

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

Just got home. I have to say that when I heard TSCO was going to be the encore, I was prepared to be underwhelmed. But that 3 band jam was OFF THE CHART good. Those guys were having so much fun, and Devy sang his parts so well I started wishing that HE had sang DTs entire set.

I did have fun. JLB was spotty.  When he completely crapped out on The Alien straight out of the gate, I expected the worst.  But he actually pulled out the rest of the performance really well. As some people have hinted, I don’t think he needs to hang it up, I just think he needs to completely re-train himself to use his lower register and learn new harmonies during tour rehearsals so that it’s completely dialed in by the time you hit the stage.

Everyone else seems to be playing at the top of their game. But there’s another elephant in the room… the show in general.

I don’t even like Devin’s music as much as DT’s, but he absolutely blew Dream Theater off the stage.  His performances and stage presence and banter are miles better.

I absolutely love JLB, and I love his voice, and I think he should do some training and stick around…but I’ve always thought he was an awkward “frontman”.  And when your voice is struggling, it just makes the other issues stand out more. And then you have that package following Devin?  That’s tough.  And then hearing Devy just *nail* the bridge and final chorus on TSCO seemed to underline it even more.   IDK, you’d think that after 30 years JLB would be more comfortable with his stage banter and crowd interaction, but it still feels a bit canned sometimes.

You nailed it. I think touring with Devin, and particularity having Devin sing TSCO with James has highlighted just how terrible James has become. I get that people love him and he's been with the band for a very long time, but he is DONE. The show literally went from a 1 with vocals to a 10 during the instrumental sections. Unfortunately it always went back to a 1 again. I know what its like to play in a band with one member not pulling their weight. Incredibly frustrating. I can only imagine what it's like if this is your career and youre one of the most musically talented bands in history, and yet your show is torpedoed night after night by one guy. I guarantee it's driving them all nuts. I guarantee they have James turned down to almost zero in their monitors so they dont have to hear it. They likely only have a few years left. They owe it to their fans to go out strongly and not like this. The rest of the band is still at the top of their game. Its ridiculous! This is going to start impacting their livelihoods. Im not sure I would see them again and I love DT! Seeing them with a guy like Devon as their singer would be incredible. But unfortunately I think JP is too nice a guy to do what needs to be done.

I completely understand and sympathize with the frustration resulting from the -frankly- strange dichotomy being presented every night. You are right: it's truly confounding to experience this tale of two cities that DT is putting on stage.

However, it is a bit presumptuous to say that JLB is cooked when we don't know what the issue(s) is. He might be able to fix the problems and come back better next time. And even if he can't, we just aren't going to get a personnel change. The best hope we have is to continue to voice concern over the issues (politely!) and hope that eventually the feedback gets to the band and that they try to help JLB turn the ship around.

[Evermind]

I haven't seen DT in four years (first it was Covid, then war) and from what I saw in Youtube videos, he did sound rough on PMU.  I wish they took a little bit of time before the tour to polish their performance and work on the new melodies. Some of the earlier videos were really unacceptable. However in the latest few videos he seems to have figured it out and actually sounds quite alright.

My last show was this in 2019 and I thought he was quite good during that one. I seem to remember he was inconsistent during that tour or at least some reviews were not favorable but I was pleasantly surprised that night. I just watched ITPoE pt. 1 and James is solid there.

I still remember the 2014 Moscow show when they were touring the self-titled album and celebrating Awake. James was outstanding there. I was blown away.

[Samsara]

Not attending this tour. Mostly because I saw the AVFTTOTW tour in Oakland, and just didn't enjoy James' performance. Here is my question: He's very aware of the criticisms. But has anyone asked him if he indeed shares the concern (he has to hear it) and if he's gone to a specialist to see what's going on with his voice, or a different coach to help him get better?

The dude goes out there, with the most difficult of vocal parts sometimes, and gives his all - and I completely respect that and thank him for it. But when the quality starts to go from "eh, one day he's great, the next day he's off, that's just how JLB's always been," to "he's off most nights in this capacity," that is certainly an issue, that if I made my living this way, I'd want to address. And do it yesterday.

Absolutely ZERO disrespect to JLB intended. But we all know how amazing he can be. But there's clearly an issue. There's something wrong. And you'd think he'd really want to just get it out in the open and addressed. My best to him. Love JLB, and continue to root for him.

[Skeever]

But when the quality starts to go from "eh, one day he's great, the next day he's off, that's just how JLB's always been," to "he's off most nights in this capacity," that is certainly an issue, that if I made my living this way, I'd want to address.

Are we really here, though? Every recording I've heard from the DoT tour seemed "pretty good", including LNF show which is better than Live in London (which is still good). And then View leg 1 was, for the most part, from what I understand, pretty good. I saw him in Philly, and he was great frankly. DreamSonic, not so much.
Point is, are we overreacting to one leg of a tour? I get that he's been hit or miss throughout his career, but I don't think a bad leg is grounds enough to say changes needed to have been made yesterday.

[Schurftkut]

he was horrible in europe, it's the whole AVFTTOTW tour that he's pitchy as fuck, even in the registers he's comfortable in. something's not right and samsara has a point.

[Samsara]

But when the quality starts to go from "eh, one day he's great, the next day he's off, that's just how JLB's always been," to "he's off most nights in this capacity," that is certainly an issue, that if I made my living this way, I'd want to address.

Are we really here, though? Every recording I've heard from the DoT tour seemed "pretty good", including LNF show which is better than Live in London (which is still good). And then View leg 1 was, for the most part, from what I understand, pretty good. I saw him in Philly, and he was great frankly. DreamSonic, not so much.
Point is, are we overreacting to one leg of a tour? I get that he's been hit or miss throughout his career, but I don't think a bad leg is grounds enough to say changes needed to have been made yesterday.

I think we are, yes. DoT was "pretty" good. But the drop in quality from that album cycle to AVFTTotW and now DreamSonic is very concerning. It's not just one leg. I support and respect JLB greatly. But something sounds...wrong.

[smegolas]

I completely understand and sympathize with the frustration resulting from the -frankly- strange dichotomy being presented every night. You are right: it's truly confounding to experience this tale of two cities that DT is putting on stage.

However, it is a bit presumptuous to say that JLB is cooked when we don't know what the issue(s) is. He might be able to fix the problems and come back better next time. And even if he can't, we just aren't going to get a personnel change. The best hope we have is to continue to voice concern over the issues (politely!) and hope that eventually the feedback gets to the band and that they try to help JLB turn the ship around.

I wish I could believe this was the case. But he's been lagging for well over decade and it keeps getting worse. Its age. Peoples vocal chords degrade. Even people like Bucelli can't do what they used to. And James is no Bucelli. It has now reached the critical level where live DT is no longer enjoyable to listen to, which is such a shame given how great thew rest of them still are. And to go back to the Devon comparison, it's more than just the singing. Devon was a delight to watch. He is a fantastic frontman with his crowd engagement. Something DT has never had.

Again, I dont believe this would ever happen, but if they were to replace James with Devon (assuming Devon would want to) - its a huge boost for the fans to listen to a capable singer again, hugely positive for the rest of the band for the same reason, probably increases concert revenue, and they would likely pay Devon less than James, so more profits for the band. Yes it sucks for James, but when you are done, you are done. They dont keep formerly great athletes on sports teams when they can no longer keep up. James needs to retire now with what dignity he has left. I promise you that is what the rest of the band wants.

[Herrick]

Not attending this tour. Mostly because I saw the AVFTTOTW tour in Oakland, and just didn't enjoy James' performance. Here is my question: He's very aware of the criticisms. But has anyone asked him if he indeed shares the concern (he has to hear it) and if he's gone to a specialist to see what's going on with his voice, or a different coach to help him get better?

If anyone has asked him about it, it was most likely band members or someone very close to the band and I doubt this conversation would be made public.

[cramx3]

Not attending this tour. Mostly because I saw the AVFTTOTW tour in Oakland, and just didn't enjoy James' performance. Here is my question: He's very aware of the criticisms. But has anyone asked him if he indeed shares the concern (he has to hear it) and if he's gone to a specialist to see what's going on with his voice, or a different coach to help him get better?

If anyone has asked him about it, it was most likely band members or someone very close to the band and I doubt this conversation would be made public.

If they are reworking the vocals actively while on tour (I know some have shared videos of this) then I think its safe to assume there's been talks.

[Mladen]

They've most certainly discussed the matter. Not only is James altering the melodies, but the band also tuned down for Pull me under.

[Kram]

I completely understand and sympathize with the frustration resulting from the -frankly- strange dichotomy being presented every night. You are right: it's truly confounding to experience this tale of two cities that DT is putting on stage.

However, it is a bit presumptuous to say that JLB is cooked when we don't know what the issue(s) is. He might be able to fix the problems and come back better next time. And even if he can't, we just aren't going to get a personnel change. The best hope we have is to continue to voice concern over the issues (politely!) and hope that eventually the feedback gets to the band and that they try to help JLB turn the ship around.

I wish I could believe this was the case. But he's been lagging for well over decade and it keeps getting worse. Its age. Peoples vocal chords degrade. Even people like Bucelli can't do what they used to. And James is no Bucelli. It has now reached the critical level where live DT is no longer enjoyable to listen to, which is such a shame given how great thew rest of them still are. And to go back to the Devon comparison, it's more than just the singing. Devon was a delight to watch. He is a fantastic frontman with his crowd engagement. Something DT has never had.

Again, I dont believe this would ever happen, but if they were to replace James with Devon (assuming Devon would want to) - its a huge boost for the fans to listen to a capable singer again, hugely positive for the rest of the band for the same reason, probably increases concert revenue, and they would likely pay Devon less than James, so more profits for the band. Yes it sucks for James, but when you are done, you are done. They dont keep formerly great athletes on sports teams when they can no longer keep up. James needs to retire now with what dignity he has left. I promise you that is what the rest of the band wants.

I wonder about this. No way they fire him, he's the voice of DT and one of their brothers.... but I can't help but wonder what the other guys are really thinking - and what conversations they have amongst themselves about JLB current state.

[Architeuthis]

I hate how this thread keeps going back to the James criticism. He sounded just fine in Seattle (Redmond) just a couple nights ago. To those that say that they are not going to Dreamsonic because of James, you're really cutting yourself short. This is a spectacular event as a whole and such a great time!  James has taken a different approach to some of the songs later in this tour and it's working quite well. CIAW and PMU came across as energetic and fun and James sounded good with this new approach.
I took a friend of mine (a great bass player) who wasn't familiar with Dream Theater, was enamored by their performance.  He was also very impressed with Devin Townsend. he said after seeing this concert he wants to quit working and just play music all the time. He got all inspired by this show, and was wondering how he missed out on these bands all his life. He wasn't critical, just had a great time. As a seasoned Rush, Maiden, and Yes fan, he said this concert was right up there with all of them..
He liked Animals as Leaders but said it was blasphemy that there was no bass guitar.   

[WilliamMunny]

I completely understand and sympathize with the frustration resulting from the -frankly- strange dichotomy being presented every night. You are right: it's truly confounding to experience this tale of two cities that DT is putting on stage.

However, it is a bit presumptuous to say that JLB is cooked when we don't know what the issue(s) is. He might be able to fix the problems and come back better next time. And even if he can't, we just aren't going to get a personnel change. The best hope we have is to continue to voice concern over the issues (politely!) and hope that eventually the feedback gets to the band and that they try to help JLB turn the ship around.

I wish I could believe this was the case. But he's been lagging for well over decade and it keeps getting worse. Its age. Peoples vocal chords degrade. Even people like Bucelli can't do what they used to. And James is no Bucelli. It has now reached the critical level where live DT is no longer enjoyable to listen to, which is such a shame given how great thew rest of them still are. And to go back to the Devon comparison, it's more than just the singing. Devon was a delight to watch. He is a fantastic frontman with his crowd engagement. Something DT has never had.

Again, I dont believe this would ever happen, but if they were to replace James with Devon (assuming Devon would want to) - its a huge boost for the fans to listen to a capable singer again, hugely positive for the rest of the band for the same reason, probably increases concert revenue, and they would likely pay Devon less than James, so more profits for the band. Yes it sucks for James, but when you are done, you are done. They dont keep formerly great athletes on sports teams when they can no longer keep up. James needs to retire now with what dignity he has left. I promise you that is what the rest of the band wants.

Devin?

Either way, I believe you are way overstating something that can't possible be known.

You've made your point–you want JLB to step down...not sure how many more times you need to say it (on a DT fan board of all places).

[smegolas]

I completely understand and sympathize with the frustration resulting from the -frankly- strange dichotomy being presented every night. You are right: it's truly confounding to experience this tale of two cities that DT is putting on stage.

However, it is a bit presumptuous to say that JLB is cooked when we don't know what the issue(s) is. He might be able to fix the problems and come back better next time. And even if he can't, we just aren't going to get a personnel change. The best hope we have is to continue to voice concern over the issues (politely!) and hope that eventually the feedback gets to the band and that they try to help JLB turn the ship around.

I wish I could believe this was the case. But he's been lagging for well over decade and it keeps getting worse. Its age. Peoples vocal chords degrade. Even people like Bucelli can't do what they used to. And James is no Bucelli. It has now reached the critical level where live DT is no longer enjoyable to listen to, which is such a shame given how great thew rest of them still are. And to go back to the Devon comparison, it's more than just the singing. Devon was a delight to watch. He is a fantastic frontman with his crowd engagement. Something DT has never had.

Again, I dont believe this would ever happen, but if they were to replace James with Devon (assuming Devon would want to) - its a huge boost for the fans to listen to a capable singer again, hugely positive for the rest of the band for the same reason, probably increases concert revenue, and they would likely pay Devon less than James, so more profits for the band. Yes it sucks for James, but when you are done, you are done. They dont keep formerly great athletes on sports teams when they can no longer keep up. James needs to retire now with what dignity he has left. I promise you that is what the rest of the band wants.

I wonder about this. No way they fire him, he's the voice of DT and one of their brothers.... but I can't help but wonder what the other guys are really thinking - and what conversations they have amongst themselves about JLB current state.

JP and Jordan are perfectionists and the product they are offering is far from perfect. It's gotta be killing them.

To the people who say he sounds fine - what the heck are you listening to??

[TheBarstoolWarrior]

To those who are saying that JLB is sounding 'fine' or better at certain shows can you please share which shows specifically are fine/good/great so that we can instill some hope that not all is lost?