Author Topic: DT15: A View From The Top Of The World (Timeline for DT15)  (Read 351584 times)

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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1015 on: March 30, 2021, 02:49:30 AM »
Hope they'll not use stock images for the cover this time, not epic

So basically you mean that you hope they'll not use Hugh Syme....
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Offline Enigmachine

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1016 on: March 30, 2021, 03:18:49 AM »
I have to admit I don't really see the hate for Hugh Syme. The only time he really messed up was around the time of DT12 with the whole clipped thing on the cover and the guitar in the booklet, as well as the kind of slapped together look of Distant Memories' main piece. The artwork for ADToE and D/T was minimalistic, yet powerful and I always loved how Hugh provides all those extra artpieces for the songs themselves. Black Clouds is also easily my favourite DT album art, it's got that proggy collage thing going on but does it with more polish than on Awake and Images. I also don't think there's anything particularly wrong with him using stock images to compose the picture. It's been part of his signature stye and it's not like it's easy to make it look like it does (not to mention, that's sort of what stock images are for). With stuff like This Godless Endeavor, Moving Pictures and Parallels, he manages to nail the atmosphere of the album in question.

Offline darkshade

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1017 on: March 30, 2021, 08:30:51 AM »
I liked the artwork for Octavarium the most out of all the album covers he's done with DT. Thinking about it, I don't really care much for the others, maybe BC&SL artwork is alright.

Offline Pax

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1018 on: March 30, 2021, 11:35:53 AM »
Any news on song lengths? How probable is it that they will go back to writing longer songs?
Tbh the only thing I care about at the moment
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1019 on: March 30, 2021, 12:12:20 PM »
The artwork for ADToE and D/T was minimalistic, yet powerful and I always loved how Hugh provides all those extra artpieces for the songs themselves.
I kind of get the the meaning of the d/t album cover. Technology has come so far in a short period of time and is taking the human element out of society. Kind of like we are our own worst enemy " Who's out there to save us from ourselves" kind of vibe. To me the album cover is a bit morbid and has a much darker vibe than the album itself. Listening to the overall album puts me in a positive space.
I don't like skulls, they represent death and creep me out but that's just my personal take.  I hope the next album cover is more colorful with a positive vibe.
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Offline Lonk

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1020 on: March 30, 2021, 12:19:49 PM »
Any news on song lengths? How probable is it that they will go back to writing longer songs?
Tbh the only thing I care about at the moment

MM said a comment about the songs being "Lengthy" which triggered a discussion for about 2 pages, about what that meant lol

https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=54868.msg2758810#msg2758810
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Offline Enigmachine

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1021 on: March 30, 2021, 12:34:22 PM »
The artwork for ADToE and D/T was minimalistic, yet powerful and I always loved how Hugh provides all those extra artpieces for the songs themselves.
I kind of get the the meaning of the d/t album cover. Technology has come so far in a short period of time and is taking the human element out of society. Kind of like we are our own worst enemy " Who's out there to save us from ourselves" kind of vibe.

I do think that theme is slightly odd admittedly, given that PBD isn't even really about that (more about putting all our struggles into perspective, given how small our planet is in the vast scheme of things). I guess that roughly there's a general vibe of disillusionment with the modern world (though not necessarily taking aim at that modernity, but more personalised circumstances) throughout much of the album, though even that may be stretching a little.

Offline Thoughtspart3

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1022 on: March 30, 2021, 01:28:44 PM »
I prefer hand drawn or painted art versus actual photos. It fits the vibe of prog better in many ways and also allows for the artists imagination to go wild. I love the old Genesis or Gentle Giant art.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1023 on: March 30, 2021, 01:57:28 PM »
I much prefer minimalism over cluttered messes like Images and Words / Awake / Black Clouds & Silver linings. And I prefer the Traffic Light version of Systematic.

And I loved the Distance Over Time artwork - I just wish it wasn't LITERALLY two stock images slapped together.

Fave is prolly Octavarium.

Offline Architeuthis

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1024 on: March 30, 2021, 02:46:50 PM »
Octavarium is probably my favorite too, and I don't know why. 
« Last Edit: March 30, 2021, 02:54:55 PM by Architeuthis »
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Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1025 on: March 30, 2021, 02:54:05 PM »
I have to admit I don't really see the hate for Hugh Syme. The only time he really messed up was around the time of DT12 with the whole clipped thing on the cover and the guitar in the booklet, as well as the kind of slapped together look of Distant Memories' main piece. The artwork for ADToE and D/T was minimalistic, yet powerful and I always loved how Hugh provides all those extra artpieces for the songs themselves. Black Clouds is also easily my favourite DT album art, it's got that proggy collage thing going on but does it with more polish than on Awake and Images. I also don't think there's anything particularly wrong with him using stock images to compose the picture. It's been part of his signature stye and it's not like it's easy to make it look like it does (not to mention, that's sort of what stock images are for). With stuff like This Godless Endeavor, Moving Pictures and Parallels, he manages to nail the atmosphere of the album in question.
I love most of what Hugh’s done for Rush, and to a lesser degree for some other bands. In fact, that’s one of the things I enjoyed doing myself - creating images that are *realistically* photo-composited (the elements fit in well enough so that they look like they should be there - not just tossed in there using a copy and paste tool). I did the same thing for MP’s bass drum heads for the Albino Monster, as well as the Black Clouds and Silver Anniversary poster/shirt image. So I don’t have a problem with the general style that Hugh’s become known for.

But it seems with DT and perhaps other artists not named Rush, he’s gotten somewhat sloppy. Perhaps it’s a case of him having taken on too much work, since he also does imagery in the commercial world that probably have heavy deadlines and quick turnarounds, but at least a decent portion of what he’s been churning out these days is not of the quality that his album art from the 90s and earlier is.

To pick apart what he’s done for DT:
The original cover for 8v was poor with purple lines instead of steel cables holding up the balls - it only seems after there was an uproar from the fans after the image was first shared publicly that this was remedied; even then, the ball in motion on the far right still doesn't line up properly with the other balls. Additionally, the undersea image is far from photorealistic, and to a lesser degree, neither is the monolith/domino scene although you get the impression that both should be, considering the other artwork.

The cover of SC certainly is chaotic, but many of the traffic ramps are scaled to all sorts of weird sizes and angles that really don’t match up. Also, the fact that he once again used a black bar for the text after having just done so on the 8v cover just seemed like a poor choice. When I designed the Chaos in Motion tour book, I put the image in a full black frame so it was at least a bit more different than what was on 8v.

The cover for BCaSL has a majesty symbol “stain” on the floor that makes no real sense and the perspective is off (this bugged me so much that it was the first thing I focused on for the Black Clouds and Silver Anniversary image), the mouse has no shadow, and the elephant isn’t photorealistic.

While it doesn’t really bother me, I know a lot of people took issue with Hugh using the unicycle guy from stock imagery on the ADToE cover, especially since the same basic image was used on another band's album cover a few years earlier. However, I do get why he used the stock image in this case, since trying to find a unicycling clown to do a photoshoot with would probably be cost prohibitive. The thing that bugs me is once again the manner that the majesty symbol was added - putting it on the tail of the plane makes perfect sense, but the way he did it looked like it was an afterthought, as opposed to incorporating it in a more clever design like real airlines have been doing.

Not a big fan of the cover art for L@LP. Besides recycling the unicycle clown, the airplane looks pretty fake.

Personally, I like the cover art for the s/t album. But the fact that he got sloppy with the cover image being cut like that in the faded area lessens his reputation.

And as for d/t, it’s certainly not my favorite cover. I agree that I don’t like that he used stock imagery for the whole thing. Again, I get why he used stock art for the robotic hand, but he could’ve shot the skull himself. And once again, the addition of the majesty symbol seems like an afterthought.

With all that being said, I didn’t have a problem with the BtFW cover image, although I would’ve preferred a photorealistic image instead of a simple line drawing. I like the combining of the imagery from SFaM and d/t for the cover of DM. And I do like a lot of the artwork that he did for the insides of the CD booklets, although I must confess that I don’t remember any of them nearly as well as I do the one for 8v and previous DT CDs - I’m sure there are some flaws in some of them, but nothing that stands out.

In the end, I think he’s an awesome artist with great ideas. It’s just that the execution of those ideas is lacking. Am I being a nit-pick? Perhaps, but given his previous work (and therefore his abilities) as well as the fact that I never had the same negative reaction with what he's done for Rush in recent years, and I want to see the best artwork for my favorite band (DT), I don't think I'm being unreasonable in taking issue with these things.
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Offline Architeuthis

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1026 on: March 30, 2021, 03:26:20 PM »

When I designed the Chaos in Motion tour book, I put the image in a full black frame so it was at least a bit more different than what was on 8v.


[/quote]
I have the Chaos in Motion tour book on display  in my garage/music room.  I had no idea that you designed that,  which is super cool!  Great job Scotty!: :coolio
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Offline Enigmachine

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1027 on: March 30, 2021, 03:54:37 PM »
Well I do have to admit I didn't know that Octavarium initially had that issue with the purple lines. The special edition cover to SC is also probably superior to the original.



The main issue I actually find with the original is that the ants in the foreground look like they're hovering. That, combined with the weird ramp stuff, does make the more minimalist special edition a bit more appealing. The stuff with Black Clouds is valid, although I will still say it's preferrable to Awake, which looks slapped together even more haphazardly. I guess I'm a bit forgiving because it's not like Dream Theater have had consistently amazing artwork before Hugh either. In my opinion, they hit a good run from Scenes onwards but Falling Into Infinity is sorta nonsensical and uninspiring, A Change of Seasons is okay but the ones before are pretty amateurish, though that could arguably be part of their charm.

I don't think there's much wrong with ADToE or D/T, though I will agree that the placement of the majesty symbol looks a bit like an afterthought on the latter. I think a lot of your criticisms are fair, it's just when I see criticism that boils down to the whole principle of "stock images = bad" thing. If a good cover can be placed out of a simple combination of images, then I don't see why not. Pop art has been in existence for decades using recycled pieces and with the accessibility of those images nowadays, taking shortcuts seems like the logical option when it provides you with what you want.

Offline DoctorAction

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1028 on: March 30, 2021, 04:02:08 PM »
I quite dig the systematic chaos traffic light cover. Other than that, I can't think of a DT cover I really like or hate. They're just kinda middling, usually.
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Online goo-goo

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1029 on: March 30, 2021, 06:11:44 PM »
I love the ToT artwork, SC and liked DoT.

Offline TM172003

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1030 on: March 31, 2021, 03:49:30 AM »
My favourite is BCaSL by far, the only one that I actually dislike is probably Falling Into Infinity. The different font infuriates me too.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1031 on: March 31, 2021, 03:52:37 AM »
The main issue with " two stock images " -  [ and they were literally copied and pasted. There's barely any difference. He hasn't altered them in any way. It's copy..paste. ]

is that Hugh would have gotten paid for that - and it's incredibly lazy. If he did it free as a favour to the band i'd have no problem with it.

I wonder how Hugh feels knowing he CHARGED to go COPY - PASTE.

Offline Enigmachine

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1032 on: March 31, 2021, 03:56:25 AM »
The main issue with " two stock images " -  [ and they were literally copied and pasted. There's barely any difference. He hasn't altered them in any way. It's copy..paste. ]

is that Hugh would have gotten paid for that - and it's incredibly lazy. If he did it free as a favour to the band i'd have no problem with it.

I wonder how Hugh feels knowing he CHARGED to go COPY - PASTE.

Which are the two original stock images?

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1033 on: March 31, 2021, 04:04:52 AM »
The skull and the robot hand ?

They were taken off the internet AS IS.





Offline Enigmachine

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1034 on: March 31, 2021, 05:00:26 AM »
The skull and the robot hand ?

They were taken off the internet AS IS.


*snip*

*snip*

Well for one, that's not the same skull in terms of colour or angle as on the main cover (though I get the point you're trying to make). The images also do still have to be processed properly (like the shadows and lighting) to fit in that kinda overcast sky background. It's not just "copy and pasting two images together". We also don't know what precisely JP gave for Hugh to work with in terms of the commission itself (or how much he charged). All we know is that the robot/skull image was created after the initial red cover was deemed a bit too minimal, so Syme could've came up with the idea itself for all we know. As well as that, it's highly likely that Hugh Syme was not just commissioned for this one piece, but the entire suite (around 10-15 images or so iirc) of Distance Over Time images, many of which (such as the Untethered Angel piece) are notably more intricate, just like with most of the others he's done.

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1035 on: March 31, 2021, 11:40:22 AM »
I have the Chaos in Motion tour book on display  in my garage/music room.  I had no idea that you designed that,  which is super cool!  Great job Scotty!: :coolio
Thanks for the compliment! I enjoyed putting it together as well as the tourbooks for the 20th Anniversary and Black Clouds tours. And guess who I modeled my tourbooks after? Yup - Hugh Syme's tourbooks for Rush.  ;)
 

The stuff with Black Clouds is valid, although I will still say it's preferrable to Awake, which looks slapped together even more haphazardly. I guess I'm a bit forgiving because it's not like Dream Theater have had consistently amazing artwork before Hugh either. In my opinion, they hit a good run from Scenes onwards but Falling Into Infinity is sorta nonsensical and uninspiring, A Change of Seasons is okay but the ones before are pretty amateurish, though that could arguably be part of their charm.
Funny that you prefer BCaSL over Awake - I'm quite the opposite. To me, the elements in Awake all seem to fit, although I'll grant you the mirror floating in the air is a bit weird. I still rank it as one of my favorite DT covers. For IaW though, I would love to see that one redone properly. For me, I don't like the flooring, the bed and a few other elements which are not photorealistic - I'm fine with the rest of the image. Aside from not smoothing out the sand/snow better, I've got no problem with the ACoS cover. Not a big fan of FII although I have nothing to nit-pick about it other than the fact that it's awfully plain, IMO and of course lacking the DT logo. Wish the band would have selected the image idea that ultimately was used for Pink Floyd's Echoes compilation. I actually like cover for OiaL - thought it was pretty clever the way that was done, and I had fun mimicking it when I did the art for the 5 Years in a LIVEtime bootleg. Also - forgot that Hugh did the art for Chaos in Motion, which I think turned out great, although I discovered that he did some cheating by quickly stretching the rusty metal at the bottom of the image instead of doing some proper retouching to extend the metal. Yeah, no one else would probably notice that, but it still comes off as sloppy to me.


I don't think there's much wrong with ADToE or D/T, though I will agree that the placement of the majesty symbol looks a bit like an afterthought on the latter. I think a lot of your criticisms are fair, it's just when I see criticism that boils down to the whole principle of "stock images = bad" thing. If a good cover can be placed out of a simple combination of images, then I don't see why not. Pop art has been in existence for decades using recycled pieces and with the accessibility of those images nowadays, taking shortcuts seems like the logical option when it provides you with what you want.
You don't think the way he slapped the majesty symbol on the tail of the airplane didn't look like an afterthought?

As for your comment about using stock images, I see your point. And certainly, for use in the commercial world where an image will quickly be forgotten about in a matter of months or maybe even weeks, that's fine. But when you're talking about a piece of art that is going to last for a long time, is going to be associated with the band's identity and their work, and is viewed by diehard fans the same way some people view paintings, cut and pasting stock images is not good enough. I do realize that there are occasions where going with stock imagery might be a necessary evil to create the desired image (such as the robot hand or unicycling clown). But at the very least, some heavy modification would at least make the image more unique.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 11:45:24 AM by Setlist Scotty »
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline gzarruk

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1036 on: March 31, 2021, 12:36:27 PM »
Whether Syme's work for DT has been sloppy or not (I think it has been sometimes), I just hope the band decides to shake things up a bit and work with someone else to give things a fresh approach and a new perspective. I think the cover for TA is really cool and it fits the project perfectly, I'm really glad they went with a different artist for that one.

If they switch mixing engineers every couple albums, why not switch graphic artists every once in a while too?
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Offline Enigmachine

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1037 on: March 31, 2021, 01:34:36 PM »
You don't think the way he slapped the majesty symbol on the tail of the airplane didn't look like an afterthought?

As for your comment about using stock images, I see your point. And certainly, for use in the commercial world where an image will quickly be forgotten about in a matter of months or maybe even weeks, that's fine. But when you're talking about a piece of art that is going to last for a long time, is going to be associated with the band's identity and their work, and is viewed by diehard fans the same way some people view paintings, cut and pasting stock images is not good enough. I do realize that there are occasions where going with stock imagery might be a necessary evil to create the desired image (such as the robot hand or unicycling clown). But at the very least, some heavy modification would at least make the image more unique.

I mean... let's be honest, when is the majesty symbol any less of an afterthought than on ADToE? On Awake it's literally just a weird bulge in the ground, on FII it's kind of just slapped on outside of the image, it floats oddly to the right on SfaM, it's thrown into the eye on Train of Thought in what looks like an obligatory inclusion (even if overall it's among the best DT art along with Scenes, Six Degrees and TA imo)... if anything, ADToE is one of the better examples of the logo being properly integrated into the piece.

As for the stock images thing, I do understand where you're coming from, but I feel like this is more about the idea than the method, given that ADToE and BCaSL I think have a pretty unique look and concept in their weird surreal nature, them being made up of stock images not really changing that. Even if the concept of D/T was hand drawn, I suspect people would still be pointing out the fact that it's kind of tropey. I also think that Hugh's collage look is sort of part of the prog look, in a way. It has its own quirky touch to it, though that's mainly just my gut feeling on that.

With Awake, I will grant that the concept and composition of the image is very striking but if you look at things like the mirror having no shadows, the spider web not being properly connected, the saturation inside the mirror being way overboard, the bronzeish sheen that makes it look like some sprite out of a 90s RPG, the way the two guys in the image don't have their direction matched etc.

The rest of the image is kinda fine and it's probably an overall improvement on Images, but I don't think it's any less sloppy than Black Clouds. Also, as you might've gathered, I don't think Hugh Syme has produced DT's best art (kinda in the middle I guess) and would definitely be fine with them using someone else, but I also don't think he's necessarily holding the band down or anything. I would be interested to see the band work with someone like Travis Smith or Eliran Kantor, the dude who did the latest Helloween art and had some other striking stuff like Evile's Skull and Mekong Delta's Wanderer at the Edge of Time, which looks like this:



His polished surrealism would definitely fit DT imo and would certainly catch the eye.

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1038 on: March 31, 2021, 03:18:04 PM »
The guy that did The Astonishing was already fine for me, they could have kept him....
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Offline evilasiojr

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1039 on: March 31, 2021, 04:56:20 PM »
https://youtu.be/bjZugHrDQic

Haven't had the time to finish the interview, but Jordan mentions right at the beginning that October is the expected month of release. He says they don't have a date yet though.

Offline jonny108

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1040 on: March 31, 2021, 07:42:07 PM »
Seems like a long time to sit on an album unless they have something planned.

I'm bored and a bit drunk so thought I'd have a go at comparing past release dates and schedules (sorry to all American's for my English dates).

Black Clouds & Silver Linings
Wrote & recorded: October 2008-March 2009
Album title/track listing announced: 13th March 2009
First single: 11th May 2009
Released: 23rd June 2009
Duration: 9 months

A Dramatic Turn of Events
Wrote & recorded: January–May 2011
Mixing starts: 2nd June 2011
Mixing/mastering ends: 28th June 2011
Album title/track listing announced: 8th June 2011
First single: 29th June 2011
Album released: 12th September 2011
Duration: 9 months

Dream Theater
Wrote & recorded: January–May 2013
Album title announced: 6th June 2013
Mix starts: 11th June 2013
Mix ends: 28th June 2013
Track listing announced: 9th July 2013
First single: 5th August 2013
Album released: 23rd September 2013
Duration: 9 months

The Astonishing
Wrote & recorded: January–June, August–September 2015
Mix starts: 13th October 2015
Album title announced: 2nd November 2015
Track listing announced: Sporadically Over Time
Mix - Final touches: 29th November 2015
First single: 3rd December 2015
Album released: 29th January 2016
Duration: 12 months

Distance Over Time
Wrote & recorded: June–September 2018
Album title announced: 6th November 2018
Track listing announced: 4th December 2018
First single: 7th December 2018
Album Released: 22nd February 2019
Duration: 9 months

DT15
Wrote & recorded: October 2020-March 2021
Expected release: September-October 2021
« Last Edit: March 31, 2021, 07:50:42 PM by jonny108 »

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1041 on: March 31, 2021, 08:09:39 PM »
I mean... let's be honest, when is the majesty symbol any less of an afterthought than on ADToE? On Awake it's literally just a weird bulge in the ground, on FII it's kind of just slapped on outside of the image, it floats oddly to the right on SfaM, it's thrown into the eye on Train of Thought in what looks like an obligatory inclusion (even if overall it's among the best DT art along with Scenes, Six Degrees and TA imo)... if anything, ADToE is one of the better examples of the logo being properly integrated into the piece.
Well, I'll definitely give you that the majesty symbol was an afterthought on ToT and FII - that's always bugged me about both. For ToT, they could've easily creating some sort of sign with it on there, like what they ended up doing for SC. FII, I dunno - but then again, as I said, I'm not a fan of that artwork anyway. But I'm sure Storm could've come up with something more creative if the guys would've pushed him a bit. But the impression I get is they generally accept what they receive, believing the artist is the professional and so they should trust them. Anyway, I actually like the way it was added for both Awake and SFaM - in both situations, it fits better than what is on BCaSL, IMO.
 
 
As for the stock images thing, I do understand where you're coming from, but I feel like this is more about the idea than the method, given that ADToE and BCaSL I think have a pretty unique look and concept in their weird surreal nature, them being made up of stock images not really changing that. Even if the concept of D/T was hand drawn, I suspect people would still be pointing out the fact that it's kind of tropey. I also think that Hugh's collage look is sort of part of the prog look, in a way. It has its own quirky touch to it, though that's mainly just my gut feeling on that.
But that goes back to the execution of his art - not the design themselves. I don't have a problem with the ideas, but the way they were put together. And there are cases where he shot images himself instead of just resorting to stock images. The grass for 8v is something he shot himself. And certainly, he used to do the same thing with Rush album art - so why couldn't he do it now - at least for the cover images?
 
 
With Awake, I will grant that the concept and composition of the image is very striking but if you look at things like the mirror having no shadows, the spider web not being properly connected, the saturation inside the mirror being way overboard, the bronzeish sheen that makes it look like some sprite out of a 90s RPG, the way the two guys in the image don't have their direction matched etc.
Oh I know that Awake isn't perfect - the spider web and the aforementioned floating mirror for instance. Not sure I follow what you're saying about the bolded part though. Are you referring to the statue and the bald guy in the mirror? If so, I never got the impression that the guy was supposed to be a reflection of the statue (which has hair and a beard...and is a statue).  :P

I would be game with them going with a different artist again for a change. The artwork for TA is one of the best things about it and is much better than a lot of DT's other album cover art, IMO. That cover you posted is a little too synthetic (CGI) but if it could be a bit more photorealistic, I would be down with something like that. Or art from Travis Smith, altho his style is completely different from anything DT's done before. Then again, they did do SDoIT, so...
 
 
Seems like a long time to sit on an album unless they have something planned.
I think it's already been talked about, but given the pandemic, I think that throws everything out the window. Certainly there are a lot of bands that may have already written and recorded an album and are sitting on it until they can finally tour in support of it. So I wouldn't be surprised if the guys prefer to hold off until then, either. Then again, it could be that they're taking more time in working on it because there isn't a big push right now to have it done by a specific time because they probably don't have a tour booked and ready to go because of the uncertainty of when things will be "normal" enough to safely have live shows again.
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1042 on: March 31, 2021, 08:11:07 PM »
While it doesn’t really bother me, I know a lot of people took issue with Hugh using the unicycle guy from stock imagery on the ADToE cover, especially since the same basic image was used on another band's album cover a few years earlier. However, I do get why he used the stock image in this case, since trying to find a unicycling clown to do a photoshoot with would probably be cost prohibitive.

I say this in total jest, but would they really have needed to book a photoshoot with an actual clown to get that shot? It's not like it was a famous clown. They could have just dressed up someone who was most likely to balance on a unicycle for a couple seconds. Heck, if being a clown was that important, they could have asked Derek.
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Offline TAC

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1043 on: March 31, 2021, 08:13:06 PM »
 :lol

I wasn't sure where that was going but you landed it perfectly.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Setlist Scotty

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1044 on: March 31, 2021, 08:18:39 PM »
While it doesn’t really bother me, I know a lot of people took issue with Hugh using the unicycle guy from stock imagery on the ADToE cover, especially since the same basic image was used on another band's album cover a few years earlier. However, I do get why he used the stock image in this case, since trying to find a unicycling clown to do a photoshoot with would probably be cost prohibitive.
I say this in total jest, but would they really have needed to book a photoshoot with an actual clown to get that shot? It's not like it was a famous clown. They could have just dressed up someone who was most likely to balance on a unicycle for a couple seconds. Heck, if being a clown was that important, they could have asked Derek.
:rollin

I think the bigger thing is finding someone to ride a unicycle, which ain't exactly something common.
As a basic rule, if you hate it, you must solely blame Portnoy. If it's good, then you must downplay MP's contribution to the band as not being important anyway, or claim he's just lying. It's the DTF way.

Offline devieira73

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1045 on: March 31, 2021, 08:48:37 PM »
Guys, I think we REALLY need a single... ASAP!  :lol
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1046 on: March 31, 2021, 11:09:16 PM »
https://youtu.be/bjZugHrDQic

Haven't had the time to finish the interview, but Jordan mentions right at the beginning that October is the expected month of release. He says they don't have a date yet though.

I was already complaining about them waiting untill September to release it and now they say this?  :-\
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline Enigmachine

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1047 on: April 01, 2021, 03:12:35 AM »
I would be game with them going with a different artist again for a change. The artwork for TA is one of the best things about it and is much better than a lot of DT's other album cover art, IMO. That cover you posted is a little too synthetic (CGI) but if it could be a bit more photorealistic, I would be down with something like that. Or art from Travis Smith, altho his style is completely different from anything DT's done before. Then again, they did do SDoIT, so...

Worth noting that the cover I posted is actually painted, not CGI. The latest Helloween album probably shows this more obviously though, as well as showing his range as it's such a wildly different piece:



His credits also include things like Communic (Where Echoes Gather), Atheist (Jupiter), To-Mera's first two and the last few Testament albums. He's generally on the more extreme end but also seems at home working for melodic prog artists like Aghora and To-Mera.

Oh I know that Awake isn't perfect - the spider web and the aforementioned floating mirror for instance. Not sure I follow what you're saying about the bolded part though. Are you referring to the statue and the bald guy in the mirror? If so, I never got the impression that the guy was supposed to be a reflection of the statue (which has hair and a beard...and is a statue).  :P

I mean yeah, but I always assumed it was some kind of looking back at his younger years type thing and the fact that it was a statue was kinda just some symbolic touch (like being still and stagnant vs being free on the other side of the mirror... mayyybe a reflection of how DT expected fame to be liberating but it ended up shackling them with compromises at the time, but that's a big hunch on my part). Kinda makes sense because both versions of the artwork (official and bootleg) have them looking directly into it. Either way, the way the bald dude inside the mirror has his face just half shown is another really goofy looking part of the art. Ironically too, the bootleg version actually  the issues with the mirror's shadow and the web going into nowhere.

But that goes back to the execution of his art - not the design themselves. I don't have a problem with the ideas, but the way they were put together. And there are cases where he shot images himself instead of just resorting to stock images. The grass for 8v is something he shot himself. And certainly, he used to do the same thing with Rush album art - so why couldn't he do it now - at least for the cover images?

In large part I think this is a product of convenience. Nowadays, stock images will be more widely accessible and easier to use for what he'd want to achieve wheras for the bulk of Rush's covers (remember only 3 Rush albums are in this century and only 1 is in the 2010s), they weren't even in an era where browsing through millions of stock images through the internet was even possible and therefore necessitated that more bespoke approach. I suspect if the tools had been there at the time, they would've been more in use. As for any more modern ones that don't rely on stock images, we can kinda take the simple explanation with this one and say that he didn't use stock images in those cases because he couldn't find ones relevant enough to justify using them, which I can easily see being the case with something like Rush's Clockwork Angels given its very unique aesthetic. I can also see it being the case for Octavarium, as he probably had a very specific look in mind and whatever stock image hosts were out there (I'm sure they weren't as ubiquitous in 2005 as they are now), nothing really cut it.

Honestly, I probably agree that it'd be preferable for him to go that more bespoke approach for each album but I can understand the reasoning for not going that route. It's why I don't think Hugh is the best artist for DT because he strikes me as an artist who sort of takes the path of least resistance that, to get a more substantial piece out of him, you would have to be  particular in your specification. John Petrucci doesn't strike me as a particularly confrontational or pushy person so that more relaxed character might not be getting the best out of Syme in this environment. That's just speculation, though. Maybe they went through numerous iterations of that skull and hand piece that we don't know about, but I kind of doubt it.

The guy that did The Astonishing was already fine for me, they could have kept him....

Honestly... I'm not really sure why they didn't. What's also kind of strange though is how badly they packaged The Astonishing, given that he had made so much brilliant art for them. The back of the CD case looks like a very cheap fanmade edit, the credits are white on clouds and the lyrics are all horribly set across some very dull textures, with only the occassional actual piece. For some reason, the way they've packaged the Hugh Syme art has just been way better. Train of Thought was also very well set I feel, with the way the lyrics were neatly laid out next to the evocative images.

Also, damn the date thing is a reaaal downer. I don't really get it either, they've got things nearly wrapped up, what with being in the mixing and mastering process, and surely they already know that holding onto an album in this environment is sorta futile. Even if they hold off until October, it's still going to be a while with them twiddling their thumbs until they can actually tour with it. I know they want to keep that momentum but isn't there a more effective way to do that? They could do somthing like doing a kickstarter to fund another release and say that half of the proceeds go to the tour crew again, after which there would likely be more space to tour. Having said that, I may be jumping the gun as I don't know what they have planned for this release. They could be doing something interesting that justifies the wait but still, on the face of it, it does look very odd.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2021, 07:27:12 AM by Enigmachine »

Offline MirrorMask

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1048 on: April 01, 2021, 03:57:23 AM »
Totally agree with The Astonishing's only saving grace being the actual cover. The inside with al the credits.... white on white clouds.... really? The booklet glued to the case?  the lyrics in random Arial format? it totally kills the mood for reading the lyrics while listening on the album, I always read them online. I understand budget and all of that, but a rock opera with a big storyline deserved a more grandiose packaging than that.
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Offline CDrice

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Re: DT15 in progress. Recording completed. Final mix next. (Timeline for DT15)
« Reply #1049 on: April 01, 2021, 07:42:33 AM »
Did the band ever said why they went with a different artist for The Astonishing? I'd be interested to know what prompted this decision since they've been working with Hugh Syme for years and went back to work with him right after. It's a bit unfortunate because Jie Ma has some really cool work that fits with the sort of realistic surreal style that the band is going for. It would have been nice to see what they could have done for a regular album.

Also, just throwing this out there, I'm available if they're looking for a new artist... :P