Your Controversial Opinions on DT

[Cool Chris]

The first half of Repentance is quite good, up until the lame apology section and the annoyingly vocalized Promises.

[PetFish]

I don't think Live Scenes is that bad as a live album. As a DVD it's terrible, who they hell thought those effects were good? I think for '99 those were terrible.

It's all Portnoy's doing.  It's in the commentary.  I think it all has to do with MP being overly-excited about this amazing show that he got lost in the possibilities of what can be done with editing and wanting the final product to be especially special.

I'd be surprised if he looks at it now and thinks "wtf was I doing here", I definitely look back at my early websites, graphics, and photography and think "wtf was I doing here".

[Volante99]

I don’t mind the speaking parts in Repentance. It’s not a great song but it’s ceetqinly not amongst their worst in my opinion. It works within the context of 12 step suite, especially.

I only wonder how they got Mikael Akerfeldt to do a speaking part as by all accounts he is not a fan of Dream Theater or Mike Portnoy lol. (yes I do know they’ve done some touring together)

[gzarruk]

I only wonder how they got Mikael Akerfeldt to do a speaking part as by all accounts he is not a fan of Dream Theater or Mike Portnoy lol. (yes I do know they’ve done some touring together)

You mean Steven Wilson? He's the one on record saying he doesn't like DT or MP. Akerfeldt is apparently good friends with MP and the DT guys, he even guested twice on DT shows (for Repentance and ANTR).

Also, this is from Wacken 2015:

[IDontNotDoThings]

The first half of Repentance is quite good, up until the lame apology section and the annoyingly vocalized Promises.

I love SC as it is, but it would've been so much better paced if Repentance wasn't so drawn out.

[TheGreatPretender]

The first half of Repentance is quite good, up until the lame apology section and the annoyingly vocalized Promises.

I love SC as it is, but it would've been so much better paced if Repentance wasn't so drawn out.

It's a bit drawn out, but I wouldn't say it completely ruins the experience. It would've been nice to get something a little more streamlined with Repentance, but musically it's nice at least.

If we're comparing songs that were needlessly drawn out by long sample or spoken sections, I would take Repentance over Honor Thy Father or The Great Debate a hundred times over.

[Ruba]

Repentance is the best part of 12-Step Suite for me.

[pg1067]

The first half of Repentance is boring as fuck, and then the lame apology section and the annoyingly vocalized Promises make it virtually unlistenable.

ftfy

[Cool Chris]

I like the idea of having the Promises in the song, I just don't like it with that modulated voice.

[rumborak]

I always got the impression that by the time of Repentance, the 12-step suite had become an albatross around DT's neck. TGP covered 3 steps, but then they dropped it down to 2 steps per song, which meant the project was going to last for another 4 albums. Since they needed to give somewhat equal treatment to each step, they were now forced into dedicating 10 minutes of each album towards a single topic. I actually think they should have left maybe the last 3 steps or so "unsung", as a nod to the fact that AA recovery is never over really.

[Cool Chris]

100% on that. Except for the last sentence. The 12th Step is something about continuing to work the program and helping others "I am responsible..."), so while it is indeed never really over, the final step addresses that.

There is also a "13th Step." Too bad they didn't address that in song. Would have been a great opportunity from a lyrical standpoint

[rumborak]

Speaking of "I am responsible", that section is so awesome.

[bosk1]

If they really wanted to stay true to the principle of it not being a "12-steps-check-the-boxes-and-you're-done" and instead a lifelong process, then DT should have continued to dedicate a song to it on every album.  Granted, by now, it would be hard to still come up with titles that embody the struggle AND start with the letter "R."  I dunno.  "Redirected (to Red Bull & Root Beer)" for this last album? 

[cramx3]

There is also a "13th Step." Too bad they didn't address that in song. Would have been a great opportunity from a lyrical standpoint

Maybe MP was saving that for another song in the future

Speaking of "I am responsible", that section is so awesome.

Indeed, a big reason why I like TSF so much.

[MirrorMask]

I remember being kinda surprised when This Dying Soul came about. For sure I knew The Glass Prison's theme but maybe from interviews it wasn't abundantly clear that it was the beginning of a saga, or maybe it was clear and I missed it. After all The Glass Prison seemed conclusive in itself - beginning with all the struggles, middle part with a different approach, long solo, final conclusive part, "the door was wide open", glass shattered. The end. Turns out it definitively wasn't 

[Shredzorz]

Lines in the Sand would be a contender for their best song if the chorus weren't so awful.

[Ruba]

Lines in the Sand would be a contender for their best song if the chorus weren't so awful.

I love the whole song and it has my favourite JP guitar solo.

[Cool Chris]

Lines in the Sand would be a contender for their best song if the chorus weren't so awful.

Seconded. Plus the intro goes on too damn long.

[TAC]

Speaking of "I am responsible", that section is so awesome.

It's the only decent part of TSF. But yes, it is awesome.

[ReaperKK]

I don't think Live Scenes is that bad as a live album. As a DVD it's terrible, who they hell thought those effects were good? I think for '99 those were terrible.

It's all Portnoy's doing.  It's in the commentary.  I think it all has to do with MP being overly-excited about this amazing show that he got lost in the possibilities of what can be done with editing and wanting the final product to be especially special.

I'd be surprised if he looks at it now and thinks "wtf was I doing here", I definitely look back at my early websites, graphics, and photography and think "wtf was I doing here".

Looking at his website design I wonder if he does think that

[Zook]

Besides the intro, the keyboard solo section is the best part of The Shattered Fortress.

[Ninjabait]

Besides the intro, the keyboard solo section is the best part of The Shattered Fortress.

I'd be surprised if that was an unpopular opinion! The intro and keyboard solo section are incredible, especially the Breaking the Fourth Wall version where the difference between the Korg and Continuum is clearer

[IDontNotDoThings]

The Shattered Fortress is my favourite of the 12-Step songs. I know a lot of people don't like the reprises, but I think it's a great song to tie everything together, & the Repentance reprises are much better than their originals imo.

[hefdaddy42]

The animations never bothered me but some of that movie footage was... egad, not great. I don't think it was "MP's movie though" didn't a third party do all the work on that?

If memory serves, MP was listed as the director of the project.  So even if he didn't physically shoot it himself, he was responsible for it.

*cues up "I am responsible" section from The Shattered Fortress*

[MoraWintersoul]

The animations never bothered me but some of that movie footage was... egad, not great. I don't think it was "MP's movie though" didn't a third party do all the work on that?

If memory serves, MP was listed as the director of the project.  So even if he didn't physically shoot it himself, he was responsible for it.

*cues up "I am responsible" section from The Shattered Fortress*

[gzarruk]

Besides the intro, the keyboard solo section is the best part of The Shattered Fortress.

I'd be surprised if that was an unpopular opinion! The intro and keyboard solo section are incredible, especially the Breaking the Fourth Wall version where the difference between the Korg and Continuum is clearer

The keyboard solo in TSF is very cool, but it doesn't top JP's solo.
BC&SL is one of my least favorite DT albums, but the guitar work, specially the solos, is just incredible

[cramx3]

The animations never bothered me but some of that movie footage was... egad, not great. I don't think it was "MP's movie though" didn't a third party do all the work on that?

If memory serves, MP was listed as the director of the project.  So even if he didn't physically shoot it himself, he was responsible for it.

*cues up "I am responsible" section from The Shattered Fortress*

 

Speaking of "I am responsible", that section is so awesome.

It's the only decent part of TSF. But yes, it is awesome.

It's decent and awesome?! 

[Cool Chris]

If memory serves, MP was listed as the director of the project.  So even if he didn't physically shoot it himself, he was responsible for it.

Uh, then he wasn't the director. At best he was the Producer, but more likely the Executive Producer.

[hefdaddy42]

If memory serves, MP was listed as the director of the project.  So even if he didn't physically shoot it himself, he was responsible for it.

Uh, then he wasn't the director. At best he was the Producer, but more likely the Executive Producer.

No, he was still the director on the project.  But the filming of those scenes would have been done by a second unit director, or assistant director.

[Cool Chris]

A second unit or assistant director implies the director was off directing other things and they split the directing duties. Can we settle on Creative Director?

[Dream Team]

This may not be controversial, but despite all the accolades Rudess and Mangini get for their advanced prowess, John Petrucci is the most talented member of the band and it’s not close.

[MoraWintersoul]

This may not be controversial, but despite all the accolades Rudess and Mangini get for their advanced prowess, John Petrucci is the most talented member of the band and it’s not close.

I am not sure that this is such a controversial opinion, yeah. Pretty sure everyone agrees that JP is one of the greatest guitar players of all time, and when you consider his writing credits on Images alone (which is one of the best metal albums of all time), you naturally come to this conclusion. Amazing composer, player and not a half bad lyricist as well. He just makes it look so easy.

[Dream Team]

Yeah I was just watching some guitar cover vids of his songs, and man they are so incredibly intricate and SO MANY parts and different fingerings and techniques and gggzrraargggh 

[Volante99]

This may not be controversial, but despite all the accolades Rudess and Mangini get for their advanced prowess, John Petrucci is the most talented member of the band and it’s not close.

Yeah, as a guitarist I may be biased but JP really is some kind of inhuman level savant.

I consider myself a competent player but it could still take me months to learn a DT album and I’d still need to work at it to get it completely right. Compare this to JP who will write and record all of these songs in a matter of weeks. That’s just a skill level 99.999% of guitarists will never achieve.

[bill1971]

The animations never bothered me but some of that movie footage was... egad, not great. I don't think it was "MP's movie though" didn't a third party do all the work on that?

If memory serves, MP was listed as the director of the project.  So even if he didn't physically shoot it himself, he was responsible for it.

*cues up "I am responsible" section from The Shattered Fortress*

 

Speaking of "I am responsible", that section is so awesome.

It's the only decent part of TSF. But yes, it is awesome.

It's decent and awesome?! 

That and the amazing one armed drum fill Mangini does on the live DVD