The "What Are You Currently Reading?" Thread

[Scorpion]

True, but it did kinda scream 'get ready for a sequel!' to me. 

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm hoping that he doesn't, to be honest.

[Scard]

Just got all caught up with ASoIaF. That was a long 5 months straight of reading nothing else.

Now onto Ready Player One!

[Dimitrius]

Just got all caught up with ASoIaF. That was a long 5 months straight of reading nothing else.

How disappointed are you in the complete tease that was ADwD?


I literally just got done with Song of Susannah and man I'm happy King didn't use himself for a major deus ex machina. Or so it seems.

Final book should arrive tomorrow.

[Scard]

Just got all caught up with ASoIaF. That was a long 5 months straight of reading nothing else.

How disappointed are you in the complete tease that was ADwD?


I literally just got done with Song of Susannah and man I'm happy King didn't use himself for a major deus ex machina. Or so it seems.

Final book should arrive tomorrow.

Spoilers: I definitely thought more war was going to happen. So much setup for so long, but not a lot of actual stuff. It was still better than the snoozefest (minus the last 10 chapters) that was AFFK, though. I have high hopes for Winds of Winter!

[yorost]

Krows

[The King in Crimson]

Finished The Great Hunt last night.  Very good, epic finale, maybe not quite as good as I remember it being, but a big step up from The Eye of the World.

Taking a break from WoT before I continue on with The Dragon Reborn so I'm reading Memoirs of a Gnostic Dwarf by David Madsen which, based on the first few pages, I would describe as a 'salacious journey through the Renaissance with a sarcastic dwarf as the tour guide.'  Looks to be fun.

[yorost]

I did not like the early WoT books as much when I reread the series, either.  I found them to be slow paced and missed the huge story lines that spanned the second half of the series.  They work a lot better when you are filled with mystery.  Though, second time through is good for spotting details, etc.  What hurts the first three the most, I think, is that each one had an ending that seemed to be leaving open the possibility that it was the end of the series.

How many books have you read before?  Crown of Swords was the favourite of mine both time I read the series.

[The King in Crimson]

I did not like the early WoT books as much when I reread the series, either.  I found them to be slow paced and missed the huge story lines that spanned the second half of the series.  They work a lot better when you are filled with mystery.  Though, second time through is good for spotting details, etc.  What hurts the first three the most, I think, is that each one had an ending that seemed to be leaving open the possibility that it was the end of the series.

How many books have you read before?  Crown of Swords was the favourite of mine both time I read the series.

I've read the early books (up to Lord of Chaos) I think twice before at least.  Maybe A Crown of Swords too, but it's been years.  I originally gave up on the series after Crossroads of Twilight came out which I can't accurately describe without unleashing a stream of profanity. 

I remember during my first reread of the series that the first four books held up really well while everything afterwards started to feel unnecessarily bloated and longwinded.  That's one of the reasons why I'm rereading these books again just to see how well they hold up and how my tastes have changed along with finally providing some closure to a story that I was insanely into during my junior high and high school years.

The Shadow Rises has always been my favorite with The Dragon Reborn and maybe The Great Hunt and A Crown of Swords pulling up just behind.

Picking up on all the little details is still fun after all these years though.

[Jarlaxle]

I'm looking for some recommendations for a book to read. I have pretty much read strictly fantasy and some science fiction for years, and right now I'm just in the middle of series' and kind of burnt out on the genre. I'm looking for something that isn't fantasy or science fiction, is an easy read, and preferably is a standalone novel since I am running a tight budget.

Come on DTF, what are your suggestions?

[Ħ]

The Catcher in the Rye. Easy read if you didn't read it in high school.
 
I might as well list what I'm reading from all my classes, because that's all I spend time reading. Nominalism & Realism: Universals & Scientific Realism; Volume 1 by D. M. Armstrong. It basically asks the question: "Do universals exist?" A universal is can be a property, a relation, a number, etc. Basically an abstract object. Nominalists say no, realists say yes. In this book, Armstrong contends for realism and he actually has been doing a very persuasive job at it. He stomped out the various Nominalist positions in the first half of the book, anyway.

[yorost]

I did not like the early WoT books as much when I reread the series, either.  I found them to be slow paced and missed the huge story lines that spanned the second half of the series.  They work a lot better when you are filled with mystery.  Though, second time through is good for spotting details, etc.  What hurts the first three the most, I think, is that each one had an ending that seemed to be leaving open the possibility that it was the end of the series.

How many books have you read before?  Crown of Swords was the favourite of mine both time I read the series.

I've read the early books (up to Lord of Chaos) I think twice before at least.  Maybe A Crown of Swords too, but it's been years.  I originally gave up on the series after Crossroads of Twilight came out which I can't accurately describe without unleashing a stream of profanity. 

I remember during my first reread of the series that the first four books held up really well while everything afterwards started to feel unnecessarily bloated and longwinded.  That's one of the reasons why I'm rereading these books again just to see how well they hold up and how my tastes have changed along with finally providing some closure to a story that I was insanely into during my junior high and high school years.

The Shadow Rises has always been my favorite with The Dragon Reborn and maybe The Great Hunt and A Crown of Swords pulling up just behind.

Picking up on all the little details is still fun after all these years though.

Crossroads of Twilight is less malicious without the years of wait on either side.  That and Fires of Heaven are easily the worst two books in the series, though.  It's funny, I find what he attempted with Crossroads of Twilight, an epilogue spanning all the plot lines during the greatest event in the series up to that point, to be an interesting idea.  Too bad it failed.  I remember when it came out that all the other friends I knew that read it had completely missed everything that happened with Egwene in the end.  I think they were so upset at that point they were glossing over it too fast.   They didn't believe me when I was talking about what happened.  At least in a reread you can skim it without worrying about missing much.

I think 3,4,7,9(except Elayne's line),11,12,14 represent the good half of the series.

[The King in Crimson]

I did not like the early WoT books as much when I reread the series, either.  I found them to be slow paced and missed the huge story lines that spanned the second half of the series.  They work a lot better when you are filled with mystery.  Though, second time through is good for spotting details, etc.  What hurts the first three the most, I think, is that each one had an ending that seemed to be leaving open the possibility that it was the end of the series.

How many books have you read before?  Crown of Swords was the favourite of mine both time I read the series.

I've read the early books (up to Lord of Chaos) I think twice before at least.  Maybe A Crown of Swords too, but it's been years.  I originally gave up on the series after Crossroads of Twilight came out which I can't accurately describe without unleashing a stream of profanity. 

I remember during my first reread of the series that the first four books held up really well while everything afterwards started to feel unnecessarily bloated and longwinded.  That's one of the reasons why I'm rereading these books again just to see how well they hold up and how my tastes have changed along with finally providing some closure to a story that I was insanely into during my junior high and high school years.

The Shadow Rises has always been my favorite with The Dragon Reborn and maybe The Great Hunt and A Crown of Swords pulling up just behind.

Picking up on all the little details is still fun after all these years though.

Crossroads of Twilight is less malicious without the years of wait on either side.  That and Fires of Heaven are easily the worst two books in the series, though.  It's funny, I find what he attempted with Crossroads of Twilight, an epilogue spanning all the plot lines during the greatest event in the series up to that point, to be an interesting idea.  Too bad it failed.  I remember when it came out that all the other friends I knew that read it had completely missed everything that happened with Egwene in the end.  I think they were so upset at that point they were glossing over it too fast.   They didn't believe me when I was talking about what happened.  At least in a reread you can skim it without worrying about missing much.

I think 3,4,7,9(except Elayne's line),11,12,14 represent the good half of the series.

Yeah, that's what I've heard from people who've either started after me or have reread the series in one go but I'm still not looking forward to it.  I actually think the thing with Egwene was just a bit of too little, too late.  I know I just didn't give a crap at the time.

I had some pretty big problems with book 9 (and 8, though I was willing to waive those at the time) so it wasn't just book 10 that killed it for me.

[yorost]

Absolutely too little too late, I just found funny how even those events were completely missed by so many readers due to the dullness of the rest of the book.  Maybe it would have been cliché, but it would have been intersting to have big things occuring, or even major cliffhangers, in each of those lines.  Instead, it was a bunch of ho-hum encounters with some small personal decision made.  Don't get me wrong, Crossroads of Twilight is terrible, I compeltely agree with you.  It's just more like a boring section of a book when you read it straight through with 9 and 11.

What's your problem with 9?  Elayne's story is a tough read, if I recall, but most of the rest of the book I found to be some of his best in the series.  8 was neither good nor bad to me, just a moving along book with a slap you in the face epilogue (I think, hard to keep it all straight).

[masterthes]

I thought Winter's Heart was one of the best books of the series, especially after Path of Daggers. And I personally liked Fires of Heaven

[The King in Crimson]

What's your problem with 9?  Elayne's story is a tough read, if I recall, but most of the rest of the book I found to be some of his best in the series.  8 was neither good nor bad to me, just a moving along book with a slap you in the face epilogue (I think, hard to keep it all straight).

Well, it's been a long time since I've read it, so giving a full critique would be difficult, but going from what I remember, I found the first half of the book to be a slog.  Then THE Big Event (being vague to avoid spoiling for other readers here) seemingly comes out of nowhere as if Robert Jordan just decided that the book needed a big climax so WHAM, there it is.  I know Rand had been dropping hints for a while, but it still seemed a bit out of left field. Also, his story line in Far Madding seemed... very contrived or, more specifically, Far Madding itself felt very contrived. I honestly don't remember any specifics from Elayne's storyline but books 8, 9 and 10 tend to run together for me, except where Rand was involved.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think Winter's Heart was terrible or anything, but considering what happened in the book and what had been set up in Path of Daggers it all felt very, very disappointing at the time.

As for Path of Daggers, at the time I gave that book a lot of leeway mostly for two reasons:
1) It was the first book that felt like set-up
2) It was pretty action packed

My opinions may very well change, actually I'm sure they will, but those were my feelings at the time... ten years ago.

[Jarlaxle]

All you guys talking fantasy really should read R.A. Salvatore's Demon Wars novels. You may or may not know Salvatore as the creator of Drizzt Do'Urden (in the Forgotten Realms setting), who is probably one of the most popular fantasy characters out there, but the Demon Wars Saga, to me, is his best work. It is seven novels, has a fantastic magic system, and memorable characters. The first two novels are your basic fantasy, with goblins orcs and a "dark lord," but after that the story is really character driven but still has a lot of fantasy elements. I would highly recommend them to any fantasy reader, they are really good reads.

[yorost]

No.  Salvatore is a contract writer extraordinaire, not a fantastic novelist.  Maybe he's improved, I don't know and don't care.  If I'm going to get a dime novel product I'll stick to a licensed product.  I'm no longer exploring fantasy, anyways, and if it isn't something serious and meaningful, like the heavy speculative fantasy from Bakker, I wouldn't even consider it.  Like anything, this genre gets old if the author isn't challenging you as the reader.

[hefdaddy42]

Finishing up The Lincoln Lawyer by Michael Connelly.  I've been on a bit of a Connelly kick lately.

[Scorpion]

Finishing up The Lincoln Lawyer by Michael Connelly.  I've been on a bit of a Connelly kick lately.

Thoughts? I liked it a lot, but I prefer the Bosch stuff, and the ending was a little predictable, though it was still an enjoyable read.

[Jarlaxle]

No.  Salvatore is a contract writer extraordinaire, not a fantastic novelist.  Maybe he's improved, I don't know and don't care.  If I'm going to get a dime novel product I'll stick to a licensed product.  I'm no longer exploring fantasy, anyways, and if it isn't something serious and meaningful, like the heavy speculative fantasy from Bakker, I wouldn't even consider it.  Like anything, this genre gets old if the author isn't challenging you as the reader.

Not quite sure what you all mean by this, but I gotta say, these novels were unlike any fantasy I've ever read. It really made me question the motives of certain characters and consider why they did what they did in the context of the story. Not to mention, it has the best villain I have ever read, I really wanted the guy to just explode everytime I read about him. Like I said, the first two novels are standard fantasy, but the rest really go above and beyond and have a lot of character interaction and development, and everything comes together nicely to build a pretty good story. But, like all things, it may not be your cup of tea, you just came off as really condescending and I wanted to clarify myself a bit, and I'm still unsure what you meant by most of your post.

[yorost]

What's your problem with 9?  Elayne's story is a tough read, if I recall, but most of the rest of the book I found to be some of his best in the series.  8 was neither good nor bad to me, just a moving along book with a slap you in the face epilogue (I think, hard to keep it all straight).

Well, it's been a long time since I've read it, so giving a full critique would be difficult, but going from what I remember, I found the first half of the book to be a slog.  Then THE Big Event (being vague to avoid spoiling for other readers here) seemingly comes out of nowhere as if Robert Jordan just decided that the book needed a big climax so WHAM, there it is.  I know Rand had been dropping hints for a while, but it still seemed a bit out of left field. Also, his story line in Far Madding seemed... very contrived or, more specifically, Far Madding itself felt very contrived. I honestly don't remember any specifics from Elayne's storyline but books 8, 9 and 10 tend to run together for me, except where Rand was involved.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think Winter's Heart was terrible or anything, but considering what happened in the book and what had been set up in Path of Daggers it all felt very, very disappointing at the time.

As for Path of Daggers, at the time I gave that book a lot of leeway mostly for two reasons:
1) It was the first book that felt like set-up
2) It was pretty action packed

My opinions may very well change, actually I'm sure they will, but those were my feelings at the time... ten years ago.

Mine did a little.  The first two sunk badly and Winter's Heart slid a tad from being one of my favourite two or three.  The Elayne stuff is early in the book, and the I agree with you that the first half can be a little plodding.  Far Madding and the Event both made sense to me.  Far Madding was a reasonable place to set a trap on those involved in the end of Path of Daggers.  He nullified their advantage and gave himself a huge advantage.  Was it contrived?  I'm not sure, maybe.  Given the nature and attitudes of the world and magic it wasn't far fetched, at least.  It's not that different than shielding or steddings.  The Event was begging to be done, it was more than just a few hints leading up to it.  There was a lot pointing to it and considering Rand's state it was to a point it probably had to be done soon.  I can't buy it as being out of left field.  I still think it's in the top 4 or 5 in the series, and iif some early stretches were stronger top two or three.

I appreciate your opinions, though.  I'm not trying call you wrong, just explain my differing view on it.

[yorost]

No.  Salvatore is a contract writer extraordinaire, not a fantastic novelist.  Maybe he's improved, I don't know and don't care.  If I'm going to get a dime novel product I'll stick to a licensed product.  I'm no longer exploring fantasy, anyways, and if it isn't something serious and meaningful, like the heavy speculative fantasy from Bakker, I wouldn't even consider it.  Like anything, this genre gets old if the author isn't challenging you as the reader.

Not quite sure what you all mean by this, but I gotta say, these novels were unlike any fantasy I've ever read. It really made me question the motives of certain characters and consider why they did what they did in the context of the story. Not to mention, it has the best villain I have ever read, I really wanted the guy to just explode everytime I read about him. Like I said, the first two novels are standard fantasy, but the rest really go above and beyond and have a lot of character interaction and development, and everything comes together nicely to build a pretty good story. But, like all things, it may not be your cup of tea, you just came off as really condescending and I wanted to clarify myself a bit, and I'm still unsure what you meant by most of your post.

It's not exactly condescending.  I have respect for what Salvatore does, but I've never read or heard anything about him that makes me take him as a top class fantasy author.  He and guys like Peter David or Timothy Zahn are good at what they do.  They write fast and craft entertaining stories that can keep you going, but they tend to lack much for depth.  Demon Wars I may have even read a little of, looking at the published dates.  That's right when I was working in a book store and was sampling him.

I enjoyed these kinds of books when I was younger, but there's only so much you can take of them.  I can't take sci fi or fantasy that isn't heady anymore.  I've had enough in my life.  Wheel of Time is was crafted top to bottom and provides an challenge in extensive detail, hints, and mystery.  It's probably as light as I'll ever go for fantasy again.  Bakker's whole world is seeping of philosophical lessons, his magic system is even a discussion on the form of argument.  Reynolds hard sci fi is filled to the brim with scientific explanation and challenges the reader to see a more realistic future.  Salvatore is a fantasy story, period.  He has his place, he is good at what he does.  Not everybody wants what I want.  I don't expect you to read what I like or want.  Salvatore just isn't the same kind of fantasy or sci fi I look for.

[hefdaddy42]

Finishing up The Lincoln Lawyer by Michael Connelly.  I've been on a bit of a Connelly kick lately.

Thoughts? I liked it a lot, but I prefer the Bosch stuff, and the ending was a little predictable, though it was still an enjoyable read.

About the same.  I prefer the Bosch stuff I've read, although there are plenty more I need to read.

Getting to ready to start The Panther by Nelson DeMille.

[Jaq]

Finished reading The Gathering Storm by Jordan and Sanderson, taking a break from the series since I bought Towers of Midnight in paperback and it's 1200 freaking pages long, reading Gun Machine by Warren Ellis atm.

[Jarlaxle]

No.  Salvatore is a contract writer extraordinaire, not a fantastic novelist.  Maybe he's improved, I don't know and don't care.  If I'm going to get a dime novel product I'll stick to a licensed product.  I'm no longer exploring fantasy, anyways, and if it isn't something serious and meaningful, like the heavy speculative fantasy from Bakker, I wouldn't even consider it.  Like anything, this genre gets old if the author isn't challenging you as the reader.

Not quite sure what you all mean by this, but I gotta say, these novels were unlike any fantasy I've ever read. It really made me question the motives of certain characters and consider why they did what they did in the context of the story. Not to mention, it has the best villain I have ever read, I really wanted the guy to just explode everytime I read about him. Like I said, the first two novels are standard fantasy, but the rest really go above and beyond and have a lot of character interaction and development, and everything comes together nicely to build a pretty good story. But, like all things, it may not be your cup of tea, you just came off as really condescending and I wanted to clarify myself a bit, and I'm still unsure what you meant by most of your post.

It's not exactly condescending.  I have respect for what Salvatore does, but I've never read or heard anything about him that makes me take him as a top class fantasy author.  He and guys like Peter David or Timothy Zahn are good at what they do.  They write fast and craft entertaining stories that can keep you going, but they tend to lack much for depth.  Demon Wars I may have even read a little of, looking at the published dates.  That's right when I was working in a book store and was sampling him.

I enjoyed these kinds of books when I was younger, but there's only so much you can take of them.  I can't take sci fi or fantasy that isn't heady anymore.  I've had enough in my life.  Wheel of Time is was crafted top to bottom and provides an challenge in extensive detail, hints, and mystery.  It's probably as light as I'll ever go for fantasy again.  Bakker's whole world is seeping of philosophical lessons, his magic system is even a discussion on the form of argument.  Reynolds hard sci fi is filled to the brim with scientific explanation and challenges the reader to see a more realistic future.  Salvatore is a fantasy story, period.  He has his place, he is good at what he does.  Not everybody wants what I want.  I don't expect you to read what I like or want.  Salvatore just isn't the same kind of fantasy or sci fi I look for.

Fair enough, I see your point. I tried reading the Wheel of Time series in high school but quit halfway through the first one, and I will be reading ASOIAF shortly, so while I haven't read any of the depth fantasy you talk about, I still stand by what I said when I said the Demon Wars is by far the best fantasy I have ever read because it made me think a lot more than I ever had.

The Catcher in the Rye. Easy read if you didn't read it in high school.

Went and bought this today, looking forward to reading it.

[The King in Crimson]

I have a lot of respect for Salvatore. He wrote some good, fun pulp adventure stories in the vein of Conan and he's a really nice and approachable guy as well. I had to write a paper back in High School and part of the requirements were that I had to interview somebody. I did my paper on Tolkien and his influences on modern writing and I fired off a ton of emails to a bunch of authors. Only two responded; Gary Gygax and Salvatore. Gygax was a grumpy old man about it and refused while Salvatore was pretty happy to answer a few questions.

He won my respect after that.

Mine did a little.  The first two sunk badly and Winter's Heart slid a tad from being one of my favourite two or three.  The Elayne stuff is early in the book, and the I agree with you that the first half can be a little plodding.  Far Madding and the Event both made sense to me.  Far Madding was a reasonable place to set a trap on those involved in the end of Path of Daggers.  He nullified their advantage and gave himself a huge advantage.  Was it contrived?  I'm not sure, maybe.  Given the nature and attitudes of the world and magic it wasn't far fetched, at least.  It's not that different than shielding or steddings.  The Event was begging to be done, it was more than just a few hints leading up to it.  There was a lot pointing to it and considering Rand's state it was to a point it probably had to be done soon.  I can't buy it as being out of left field.  I still think it's in the top 4 or 5 in the series, and iif some early stretches were stronger top two or three.

I appreciate your opinions, though.  I'm not trying call you wrong, just explain my differing view on it.

God it's been a long time since I've participated in an in-depth Wheel of Time discussion. 

Okay, my problem with Far Madding is pretty much the epitome of nit-picky, geek complaining. Jordan was usually pretty good about dropping details about things that wouldn't be important for several books and yet, I don't believe that he ever mentioned the 'special qualities' of Far Madding before that book.

As for the coming out of left field thing, I thought it was strange how Rand goes from mucking about in Far Madding to 'oh hey, I'm gonna go do this important thing now kthxbai' in seemingly the blink of an eye. It was just a strangely structured book to me, but now as I think about it, it doesn't sound as bad as I remember it being.

[Dimitrius]

So, loving The Dark Tower so far, but I'm a bit disappointed that SPOILERS John Farson, who was very important in shaping Roland was just "some dude" /SPOILERS it's nothing big or anything, just a bit disappointing.

[yorost]

God it's been a long time since I've participated in an in-depth Wheel of Time discussion. 

Okay, my problem with Far Madding is pretty much the epitome of nit-picky, geek complaining. Jordan was usually pretty good about dropping details about things that wouldn't be important for several books and yet, I don't believe that he ever mentioned the 'special qualities' of Far Madding before that book.

As for the coming out of left field thing, I thought it was strange how Rand goes from mucking about in Far Madding to 'oh hey, I'm gonna go do this important thing now kthxbai' in seemingly the blink of an eye. It was just a strangely structured book to me, but now as I think about it, it doesn't sound as bad as I remember it being.

That's a good question on Far Madding.  Far Madding was definitely mentioned beforehand, but were the qualities of it?  I think it was possibly hinted at that something was up with Far Madding at some point prior, but I don't thnk I'd want to bet on it.  Did the companion book describe it?  That is a little annoying for Jordan to not drop a hint at that if he did not, since the series calling card might be intricate detail and foreshadowing.

Ah, the event coming out of nowhere while leaving Far Madding   I took it as a glamorous way to initiate something we knew was happening.  When he picked up our favourite yellow for a need earlier in the book, I thought that was not only the final straw but was pretty straightforward, it was happening.  Path of Daggers already had the possibility at a boiling point.

As an aside on foreshadowing.  I was actually quite proud of myself with A Memory of Light.  I had called a few borderline bizarre events that occurred books ahead of time, based on hints he spread over the course of the whole series.  He really did leave a lot for the taking if you piece things together.  Missed big on one in particular, though.   I thought a specific character was a modern forsaken (or at least a strong darkfriend) and this person wasn't even in A Memory of Light, I think.   I mean, I was seriously convinced of it.  Oh well.

[Tomislav95]

Therese Raquin by Emile Zola (for school) an Steppenwolf by Herman Hesse.

[ddtonfire]

The Complete Sherlock Holmes vol I - Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
Memoirs - Ulysses S. Grant

[ZirconBlue]

All you guys talking fantasy really should read R.A. Salvatore's Demon Wars novels. You may or may not know Salvatore as the creator of Drizzt Do'Urden (in the Forgotten Realms setting), who is probably one of the most popular fantasy characters out there, but the Demon Wars Saga, to me, is his best work. It is seven novels, has a fantastic magic system, and memorable characters. The first two novels are your basic fantasy, with goblins orcs and a "dark lord," but after that the story is really character driven but still has a lot of fantasy elements. I would highly recommend them to any fantasy reader, they are really good reads.

I second this recommendation.  The Demon Wars books are much more "grown up" than most of his Forgotten Realms work (although those books also became more mature as they progressed).  As you say it starts out as pretty standard fantasy, but then goes off in a very dark direction.  And I love the magic system he created. 


Another author that comes up with cool settings and systems of magic is Dave Duncan.  I particularly recommend his King's Blades series.  A combination of swashbuckling adventure, some very dark thematic material, and the aforementioned cool magic system.

[Jarlaxle]

All you guys talking fantasy really should read R.A. Salvatore's Demon Wars novels. You may or may not know Salvatore as the creator of Drizzt Do'Urden (in the Forgotten Realms setting), who is probably one of the most popular fantasy characters out there, but the Demon Wars Saga, to me, is his best work. It is seven novels, has a fantastic magic system, and memorable characters. The first two novels are your basic fantasy, with goblins orcs and a "dark lord," but after that the story is really character driven but still has a lot of fantasy elements. I would highly recommend them to any fantasy reader, they are really good reads.

I second this recommendation.  The Demon Wars books are much more "grown up" than most of his Forgotten Realms work (although those books also became more mature as they progressed).  As you say it starts out as pretty standard fantasy, but then goes off in a very dark direction.  And I love the magic system he created. 


Another author that comes up with cool settings and systems of magic is Dave Duncan.  I particularly recommend his King's Blades series.  A combination of swashbuckling adventure, some very dark thematic material, and the aforementioned cool magic system.

I second how great the magic system in Demon Wars is. Just great novels all around.

[Perpetual Change]

No.  Salvatore is a contract writer extraordinaire, not a fantastic novelist.  Maybe he's improved, I don't know and don't care.  If I'm going to get a dime novel product I'll stick to a licensed product.  I'm no longer exploring fantasy, anyways, and if it isn't something serious and meaningful, like the heavy speculative fantasy from Bakker, I wouldn't even consider it.  Like anything, this genre gets old if the author isn't challenging you as the reader.

Eh, erroneous assumption on your part. Salvatore generally is a driveling monkey, but Demon Wars is quality stuff.  When I was in high school, it was what got me back into fantasy, though I never did get past the first trilogy; I was happy with the completeness I got from that, and didn't want to ruin it, like I did with Dune and a few other series that went on for a few books too long. It's pretty ridiculous to knock on  Salvatore with one hand while raising a guy like Jordan up with the other.

And, to be honest, I'm about to switch from Jordan back to Bakker. Jordan's just too damn slow. I'm like 300 pages into Eye of the World, and while it isn't terrible, it's not good either. The world is interesting, but Jordan obviously isn't very good at telling a story that interests people which, btw, is Bakker's huge problem too. If there's one really great thing Salvatore has going, it's that, while he's not the sharpest writer or the most original, he does get people. 

[yorost]

I don't really care on Salvatore, as I said I have read him and I'm not going back.  We can't give everyone more and more chances.  I'm not antu-Salvatore, I just think he's a different type of author than I like.  Had I got into him in earlier maybe I would be a lifelong fan.  I do still really like Peter David because of his New Frontier series.

Yes, Jordan is slow, it's better suited for detail obsessed readers.  Bakker's pace I like a lot more, never thought of him as slow.  Then again, if you are only after plot I suppose he might be.  I mean, a central theme to his work is understanding the world, as it correlates to many philosophical topics.  The story is a device as much as it is a plot.  I love that kind of stuff.  Sure, it wouldn't work if the story sucked, but I don't think it does with Bakker.

[The King in Crimson]

I think I almost had more fun reading through the Appendices at the back of The Thousandfold Thought than I did reading the actual book. I love Bakker's world and his characters are incredibly intriguing but he too often likes to bludgeon the reader with his philosophical asides (over and over and over...). The Thousandfold Thought was especially bad for that, even if it did have some moments of epic amazingness.