Coronavirus

[cramx3]

I wish more people understood these facts before making kneejerk decisions about the vaccines being rushed.  I mean, I'm not saying that needs to be the end-all, be-all of someone's decision making process.  But it certainly helps to have the correct information vs. incorrect assumptions.

This is where social media and click bait news headlines come to play.  One headline can say "person dies after getting vaccinated" but the contents of the article state this person was sick with something else and the vaccine is unlikely related to the death.  However, it spreads like wild fire that "someone died from the vaccine" through social media by those who don't believe or trust in the vaccines.

I certainly wish everyone would do some homework to understand these things, but knowing most won't, is it really too much to ask for the news to have appropriate headlines that don't cause division?  Apparently it is too much to ask as divisiveness , not the truth, sells.

[MirrorMask]

Yeah, "forgetting" is not the right word - people just don't know.

Just yesterday the Etna volcano erupted in Sicily. Nobody is making wild claims about weird origins of the eruption, we all know volcanoes and how they work.

And when there's an earthquake, nobody screams "conspiracy" (well, actually a bunch of people think that Tesla was able to engineer earthquakes and that there's the technology to cause them but that's for another time), earthquakes are famous just like volcanos, we all know in general terms why the earth shake.

Then a pandemic happens.... and a big majority of the people don't know, don't realize or don't bother to research that there have been people studing viruses and diseases for a long time just like there's people studying volcanoes and earthquakes. The fact that virues are not famous as earthquakes doesn't change the fact that there are people studying it for a long, long time and that know what they're doing.

When the pandemic broke out last year however on social media it seemed like a free-for-all, brave new world where anybody could come up with the theory they preferred. Hell no. Viruses and even a coronavirus were nothing new, and all the research was there for everyone to see if just people bothered to educate themselves. Just because it's not a worldwide discussed issue doesn't mean it's a new one.

Case in point: do you know that one of the fear of scientists is that with global warming the icecaps, melting, will release bacteria and viruses long dormant in the permafrost? google "viruses in permafrost", you'll find dozen of links discussing this very possible threat.

Wanna bet that, if in 10 years this actually happens and people in Greenland or North Canada get a virus that wasn't seen since 3000 B.C. everyone will consider it a brand new thing - and therefore open to "social media judgement" - with hardly anyone bothering to research and realize it was a thing long predicted?

[Ben_Jamin]

I don't do it because I'm cool or enlightened, I do it because I'm a p***y and don't want to get sick.  But I wear a mask, I distance, and I stay home a lot.    I'm also like Lonestar, in that I would do a half-gainer onto the needle if given a chance.  I've been "joking" for a couple months now to anyone that will listen that "if anyone asks, I'm a 78 year old ER doctor with the dia-beetus who lives in a nursing home".   

But I also see the other side; I'm not a big one for pointing fingers and making fun of people who think differently than I do. I can understand the fear and trepidation of getting something shot inside you.  There are millions of people that don't eat food out of a box, or don't take certain medicines or whatever for their own reasons.  They are allowed to not do this.

I don't view vaccines like I do seatbelts (which I'm notoriously bad at wearing); I look at vaccines like abortions*.  We march to support the notion that a woman controls her own body and can make the decisions for her body that she sees fit.  I don't view vaccines any differently. 



* And for maybe 5 or 10 reasons, yes, abortions - or not - affect all of us.  This is just one of those reasons.

Exactly, Its about A person getting to decide what they can and can't put inside their own body. It's all personal space as well.

[Ben_Jamin]

My parents are anti the new MRNa vaccines, but have said they will get the Johnson & Johnson one.  I'd imagine there's a subset of the population that also feels that way and the good news is that J&J will likely be approved soon and being only one shot, it will make a difference in getting this under control. 

Also, at this point, a significant portion of the US has already been infected.  I think the end result is EVERYONE either gets infected and/or gets the vaccine and we reach herd immunity by the end of the summer (in the US, I can't speak for other nations as I don't follow their covid situations, besides Isreal who is already getting close to herd immunity).  The mutations will continue and we may need to get booster or new vaccines in the future, but the deaths will go down significantly just from the vaccinations and we can go back to living our lives because the fear of death will be miniscule.

Until the next ones comes along that makes us bleed from eyes and ears. Then the Fear cycle starts all over again.

[Ben_Jamin]

Yeah, "forgetting" is not the right word - people just don't know.

Just yesterday the Etna volcano erupted in Sicily. Nobody is making wild claims about weird origins of the eruption, we all know volcanoes and how they work.

And when there's an earthquake, nobody screams "conspiracy" (well, actually a bunch of people think that Tesla was able to engineer earthquakes and that there's the technology to cause them but that's for another time), earthquakes are famous just like volcanos, we all know in general terms why the earth shake.

Then a pandemic happens.... and a big majority of the people don't know, don't realize or don't bother to research that there have been people studing viruses and diseases for a long time just like there's people studying volcanoes and earthquakes. The fact that virues are not famous as earthquakes doesn't change the fact that there are people studying it for a long, long time and that know what they're doing.

When the pandemic broke out last year however on social media it seemed like a free-for-all, brave new world where anybody could come up with the theory they preferred. Hell no. Viruses and even a coronavirus were nothing new, and all the research was there for everyone to see if just people bothered to educate themselves. Just because it's not a worldwide discussed issue doesn't mean it's a new one.

Case in point: do you know that one of the fear of scientists is that with global warming the icecaps, melting, will release bacteria and viruses long dormant in the permafrost? google "viruses in permafrost", you'll find dozen of links discussing this very possible threat.

Wanna bet that, if in 10 years this actually happens and people in Greenland or North Canada get a virus that wasn't seen since 3000 B.C. everyone will consider it a brand new thing - and therefore open to "social media judgement" - with hardly anyone bothering to research and realize it was a thing long predicted?

And we Natives feel the same way with people digging up stuff that was buried in the ground. Like The Tombs in Egypt and Our Ancestral gravesites and Ruins. There's reasons why we left them alone, and are buried in the ground.

And to me, it's all the effect of how we as humans as whole are treating the Earth. Climate Change is a change of weather patterns, and we are witness to that.

[jingle.boy]

The flu shot is also an apples-oranges analogy, so why bring it up?

Because they are both vaccines.  I'm not comparing a vaccine to a seatbelt.  I would expect most people to know the difference.

And I'd expect most people to know the difference between the flu and COVID-19

It's been over a year and I still haven't gotten it. 

And yet still, 110M people globally have; 28M Americans - roughly 8% of the US population.  I guess everyone is free to not do their part to get to the 'end' of a global pandemic.

Yeah, and maybe a lot of those people didn't take the necessary precautions and didn't follow guidelines.  I have been and that's why I haven't gotten it and also haven't been at risk of giving it to someone else.  I have been doing my part like I stated before if you bothered to read it.

That's twice you've accused people of not reading your posts because your points have been challenged.  Defensive much?  Lighten up pal - no need to be such a dick.  You're right, many may not have taken precautions (or outright disregarded them*), but there are too many instances of people taking every precaution they can, and still getting it.

"Doing your part" in the (hopefully near) future won't be the same as it was in the past.  For most, it won't be closures.  It won't be masking any/everywhere all the time.  It won't be physical distancing.  It will be herd immunity thru vaccination.  By all means, people who don't want to (or won't) vaccinate can continue to do their part by masking, staying at home only for essential purposes, and keeping 6 feet away from the rest of society.

*And I suspect that's because many bought into the politicization of the pandemic??  You don't think the former POTUS took every precaution - and yet he still contracted it.

[jingle.boy]

The flu shot is also an apples-oranges analogy, so why bring it up?  FWIW, I too have not gotten a flu shot in many many years.  I did get a flu a couple of times, but A) I didn't pass it on to anyone (that I know of), and B) I wasn't worried about my mortality from the flu.  If I was to catch COIVD, I would be completely worried about both of these things.

I disagree. - there are people who are fearful of just the flu.  My uncle is HIV+.  My father in law is very immuno-compromised (Crohn's disease), with damaged kidneys and skin cancer issues that he deals with, in addition to gastro-intestional flare-ups). 

If either of them catches the flu, they could be hospitalized and/or even die because of their preexisting conditions.  It's not an apples-oranges scenario.  It might be to you, since you're not afraid of the flue, but not to others who can be severely hospitalized or killed by just a plain old flu virus. 

I get the flu shot simply because I would normally spend 3 hours per day commuting in public transportation, sealed in a train car with 50-100 other people in close proximity.  Many of them sniffle and cough their way through the winter months, rather than take a sick day.  I don't want to get sick and miss work or risk giving the flu to my kids (when they were babies it was really important to get the flu shot, since they didn't have strong immune systems yet).  The same goes for COVID.  it would be nice to know that I have some antibodies floating around in my body, just in case I get it.

Fair points.  Generally speaking, COVID is a far greater health threat to the broader population, as well as people with underlying conditions.  Perhaps its a manadarin-to-oranges comparison. 

[jingle.boy]

I think the internet is at fault for those who don't want the vaccine.  People believe anything they read and there is so much bad information out there These days.

Some people believe Power Windows is a good album.

And others think Saxon makes good music.

[Podaar]

The flu shot is also an apples-oranges analogy, so why bring it up?  FWIW, I too have not gotten a flu shot in many many years.  I did get a flu a couple of times, but A) I didn't pass it on to anyone (that I know of), and B) I wasn't worried about my mortality from the flu.  If I was to catch COIVD, I would be completely worried about both of these things.

I disagree. - there are people who are fearful of just the flu.  My uncle is HIV+.  My father in law is very immuno-compromised (Crohn's disease), with damaged kidneys and skin cancer issues that he deals with, in addition to gastro-intestional flare-ups). 

If either of them catches the flu, they could be hospitalized and/or even die because of their preexisting conditions.  It's not an apples-oranges scenario.  It might be to you, since you're not afraid of the flue, but not to others who can be severely hospitalized or killed by just a plain old flu virus. 

I get the flu shot simply because I would normally spend 3 hours per day commuting in public transportation, sealed in a train car with 50-100 other people in close proximity.  Many of them sniffle and cough their way through the winter months, rather than take a sick day.  I don't want to get sick and miss work or risk giving the flu to my kids (when they were babies it was really important to get the flu shot, since they didn't have strong immune systems yet).  The same goes for COVID.  it would be nice to know that I have some antibodies floating around in my body, just in case I get it.

Fair points.  Generally speaking, COVID is a far greater health threat to the broader population, as well as people with underlying conditions.  Perhaps its a manadarin-to-oranges comparison. 

Oh, it's oranges to oranges for sure. You're in way greater risk than you realize, jingle.boy. We get the shot every year because...



This is my brother-in-law, 7 years ago this past Monday, waking up after 35 days of being on a ventilator because he couldn't breath on his own due to... you guessed it, the flu. He was the same age you are now, Chad.

Get your shots, people. It quick, cheap and wise. Oh, and Chad, you should get your shingles vaccination too. 

[jingle.boy]

Get your shots, people. It quick, cheap and wise. Oh, and Chad, you should get your shingles vaccination too. 

Yeah... been hearing a lot about that lately.  Had a former colleague contract it a few years back, said it was the worst experience of his life.  It's high on my priority list when I can get in to see a GP.

[Stadler]

The flu shot is also an apples-oranges analogy, so why bring it up?

Because they are both vaccines.  I'm not comparing a vaccine to a seatbelt.  I would expect most people to know the difference.

And I'd expect most people to know the difference between the flu and COVID-19

It's been over a year and I still haven't gotten it. 

And yet still, 110M people globally have; 28M Americans - roughly 8% of the US population.  I guess everyone is free to not do their part to get to the 'end' of a global pandemic.

Yeah, and maybe a lot of those people didn't take the necessary precautions and didn't follow guidelines.  I have been and that's why I haven't gotten it and also haven't been at risk of giving it to someone else.  I have been doing my part like I stated before if you bothered to read it.

That's twice you've accused people of not reading your posts because your points have been challenged.  Defensive much?  Lighten up pal - no need to be such a dick.  You're right, many may not have taken precautions (or outright disregarded them*), but there are too many instances of people taking every precaution they can, and still getting it.

"Doing your part" in the (hopefully near) future won't be the same as it was in the past.  For most, it won't be closures.  It won't be masking any/everywhere all the time.  It won't be physical distancing.  It will be herd immunity thru vaccination.  By all means, people who don't want to (or won't) vaccinate can continue to do their part by masking, staying at home only for essential purposes, and keeping 6 feet away from the rest of society.

*And I suspect that's because many bought into the politicization of the pandemic??  You don't think the former POTUS took every precaution - and yet he still contracted it.

I've written this before.

California, one of the most liberal (if not THE most liberal) states in the union, and a state that implemented what some call Draconian measures to lock this down.

Florida, one of the most... Florida.  Florida-man.  'Nuff said.

California and Florida have almost the same cases/million and deaths/million.
         CA:   Cases/Million:   88,379                Deaths/Million:      1,213
         FL:    Cases/Million:   85,886                Deaths/Million:      1,356

CA has 3% (roughly) more cases per million, and about 9% less deaths per million.   Bear in mind, though that the average age in Florida is about five and a half years higher (42.2 vs. 36.8).   We know that age is a factor in mortality here.

I wonder how many people think the numbers of cases/deaths we're seeing around the nation are driven largely by "red states" and the "[insert your favorite disparaging word for citizens of the red states]" that live there who don't give a shit about other people?

[Dublagent66]

The flu shot is also an apples-oranges analogy, so why bring it up?

Because they are both vaccines.  I'm not comparing a vaccine to a seatbelt.  I would expect most people to know the difference.

And I'd expect most people to know the difference between the flu and COVID-19

Why don't you explain the difference and enlighten us all?

It's been over a year and I still haven't gotten it. 

And yet still, 110M people globally have; 28M Americans - roughly 8% of the US population.  I guess everyone is free to not do their part to get to the 'end' of a global pandemic.

Yeah, and maybe a lot of those people didn't take the necessary precautions and didn't follow guidelines.  I have been and that's why I haven't gotten it and also haven't been at risk of giving it to someone else.  I have been doing my part like I stated before if you bothered to read it.

That's twice you've accused people of not reading your posts because your points have been challenged.  Defensive much?  Lighten up pal - no need to be such a dick. 

My points weren't challenged.  They were pretty much dismissed and you basically accused me of not doing my part because I'm not interested in getting the vaccine.  Who are you to judge me huh?  Funny, kinda seems like you were being the dick.   

Oh BTW, thanks for reminding me why I don't frequent this forum that much anymore.

[Stadler]

Get your shots, people. It quick, cheap and wise. Oh, and Chad, you should get your shingles vaccination too. 

Yeah... been hearing a lot about that lately.  Had a former colleague contract it a few years back, said it was the worst experience of his life.  It's high on my priority list when I can get in to see a GP.

It would take me until lunch to list all the stuff my dad has had to go through physically (he's beaten cancer twice, and he has had artificial knees and hips for over 20 years; there's a stroke in there, a spinal fusion and a bowel resection as well.), and he still talks about the shingles. 

[jingle.boy]

The flu shot is also an apples-oranges analogy, so why bring it up?

Because they are both vaccines.  I'm not comparing a vaccine to a seatbelt.  I would expect most people to know the difference.

And I'd expect most people to know the difference between the flu and COVID-19

Why don't you explain the difference and enlighten us all?

I don't feed trolls.

It's been over a year and I still haven't gotten it. 

And yet still, 110M people globally have; 28M Americans - roughly 8% of the US population.  I guess everyone is free to not do their part to get to the 'end' of a global pandemic.

Yeah, and maybe a lot of those people didn't take the necessary precautions and didn't follow guidelines.  I have been and that's why I haven't gotten it and also haven't been at risk of giving it to someone else.  I have been doing my part like I stated before if you bothered to read it.

That's twice you've accused people of not reading your posts because your points have been challenged.  Defensive much?  Lighten up pal - no need to be such a dick. 

My points weren't challenged.  They were pretty much dismissed and you basically accused me of not doing my part because I'm not interested in getting the vaccine.  Who are you to judge me huh?  Funny, kinda seems like you were being the dick.   

Oh BTW, thanks for reminding me why I don't frequent this forum that much anymore.

You're welcome!!

[cramx3]

The Florida vs. California thing is interesting.  I do wonder if Florida's more tropical climate plays a role there

[The Walrus]

The flu shot is also an apples-oranges analogy, so why bring it up?

Because they are both vaccines.  I'm not comparing a vaccine to a seatbelt.  I would expect most people to know the difference.

And I'd expect most people to know the difference between the flu and COVID-19

Why don't you explain the difference and enlighten us all?

I don't feed trolls.

It's been over a year and I still haven't gotten it. 

And yet still, 110M people globally have; 28M Americans - roughly 8% of the US population.  I guess everyone is free to not do their part to get to the 'end' of a global pandemic.

Yeah, and maybe a lot of those people didn't take the necessary precautions and didn't follow guidelines.  I have been and that's why I haven't gotten it and also haven't been at risk of giving it to someone else.  I have been doing my part like I stated before if you bothered to read it.

That's twice you've accused people of not reading your posts because your points have been challenged.  Defensive much?  Lighten up pal - no need to be such a dick. 

My points weren't challenged.  They were pretty much dismissed and you basically accused me of not doing my part because I'm not interested in getting the vaccine.  Who are you to judge me huh?  Funny, kinda seems like you were being the dick.   

Oh BTW, thanks for reminding me why I don't frequent this forum that much anymore.

You're welcome!!

you're both being dicks to each other. replying to him only feeds the perceived 'troll' you are talking to. this kind of behavior is a huge reason why i've tried to move to full lurker mode here

[Stadler]

The Florida vs. California thing is interesting.  I do wonder if Florida's more tropical climate plays a role there

Could be.  We've kind of learned that having 100 people in 1000 ft² of space inside isn't the same as having 100 people in 1000 ft² of space outside.

[bosk1]

you're both being dicks to each other. replying to him only feeds the perceived 'troll' you are talking to.

This.  Both of you knock it off.

[jingle.boy]

California, one of the most liberal (if not THE most liberal) states in the union, and a state that implemented what some call Draconian measures to lock this down.

Florida, one of the most... Florida.  Florida-man.  'Nuff said.

California and Florida have almost the same cases/million and deaths/million.
         CA:   Cases/Million:   88,379                Deaths/Million:      1,213
         FL:    Cases/Million:   85,886                Deaths/Million:      1,356

CA has 3% (roughly) more cases per million, and about 9% less deaths per million.   Bear in mind, though that the average age in Florida is about five and a half years higher (42.2 vs. 36.8).   We know that age is a factor in mortality here.

I wonder how many people think the numbers of cases/deaths we're seeing around the nation are driven largely by "red states" and the "[insert your favorite disparaging word for citizens of the red states]" that live there who don't give a shit about other people?

When using those two data points with those two subjects, a correlation between red/blue and case or death counts isn't identifiable.  Looking at the top 10 (worst) states for cases/1M, only 2 are 'blue' (RI and AZ).  In fact, 15 of the top 20 (worst) are 'red'.  I don't think that suggests a correlation, but it's just as meaningful as comparing Florida and CA - I'm not really sure why those two in particular were compared?  Largely populated States with opposite political leanings?

[cramx3]

The Florida vs. California thing is interesting.  I do wonder if Florida's more tropical climate plays a role there

Could be.  We've kind of learned that having 100 people in 1000 ft² of space inside isn't the same as having 100 people in 1000 ft² of space outside.

Yeah, I really don't know, but it is interesting to see how states handle things differently yet the results aren't too different or even when the stricter state is worse off.  But just looking at a heat map of the US lately, and you'll see Florida is the only hot spot right now.

Anyway, I follow this every few days https://covidtracking.com/data/charts/us-all-key-metrics and those steep drops are highly encouraging.  There's a part of me that just wants to fast forward to May already.  Between the non stop snow and the pandemic, I feel so done with this winter.

[lonestar]

Not sure what's a bigger first, Chad getting a public warning, or Bosk agreeing with Mike. 

[cramx3]

Some more good news on the vaccine front

https://www.yahoo.com/news/fauci-theres-evidence-covid-19-200423650.html

Taken together, these two studies suggest that:

Vaccinated people tend to have lower viral loads.

Lower viral loads are linked to less viral spread.

It's possible, then, that vaccinating large numbers of people could help to crush the coronavirus outbreak, by not only keeping vaccinated people healthy, alive, and out of the hospital but also preventing any of those vaccinated people who might get sick (even asymptomatically) from passing their sickness along to others.

It's been questionable whether vaccinated people could still spread the virus, but some new data from Isreal may show that the vaccines do help stopping the spread which is great news if it turns out to be true, more studies will need to be done, but the initial data suggests it's likely.

[gmillerdrake]

Only side effect I've had today is an extremely sore upper arm at the injection point. Other than that.....all good.

[jingle.boy]

Only side effect I've had today is an extremely sore upper arm at the injection point. Other than that.....all good.

YOU'RE ALIVE!!!!

[Stadler]

California, one of the most liberal (if not THE most liberal) states in the union, and a state that implemented what some call Draconian measures to lock this down.

Florida, one of the most... Florida.  Florida-man.  'Nuff said.

California and Florida have almost the same cases/million and deaths/million.
         CA:   Cases/Million:   88,379                Deaths/Million:      1,213
         FL:    Cases/Million:   85,886                Deaths/Million:      1,356

CA has 3% (roughly) more cases per million, and about 9% less deaths per million.   Bear in mind, though that the average age in Florida is about five and a half years higher (42.2 vs. 36.8).   We know that age is a factor in mortality here.

I wonder how many people think the numbers of cases/deaths we're seeing around the nation are driven largely by "red states" and the "[insert your favorite disparaging word for citizens of the red states]" that live there who don't give a shit about other people?

When using those two data points with those two subjects, a correlation between red/blue and case or death counts isn't identifiable.  Looking at the top 10 (worst) states for cases/1M, only 2 are 'blue' (RI and AZ).  In fact, 15 of the top 20 (worst) are 'red'.  I don't think that suggests a correlation, but it's just as meaningful as comparing Florida and CA - I'm not really sure why those two in particular were compared?  Largely populated States with opposite political leanings?

One objective:  Two of the four largest states in the union (1 and 3)
One subjective:  The PERCEPTION is that Florida is an outlier on the reasonable-ness scale; the whole "Florida-man" meme thing, the pictures of spring break inanity, countered by the PERCEPTION, from the lectures from limosine liberals, that somehow California is "on the right side of history".   
One sort of a little of both:  Trump is affiliated/associated with COVID failure, and Florida, Kamala Harris is affiliated/associated with the knights on white horses riding in to save us from ourselves, and California.

And it might be a correlation, it's not a cause; when you flip that to "deaths/million", the list is 7 out of 10 blue.

The entire point is to say that this look is relatively meaningless, and mostly political.  It's an idea searching for proof, not the other way around.

[Grappler]

I can't begin to express how irritated I am right now.

My father in law is 69, has Crohn's disease, which has wrecked his intestines and kidneys (he uses an ileostomy bag - like a colostomy, but it's his small intestine that empties into it).  He's had a heart attack and two strokes four years ago.  If he gets COVID, he's dead.  His body wouldn't be able to take it - Crohn's has destroyed him, physically. 

Our entire family knows this, they know how many times he's been in the hospital and nearly died from gastro-related infections, especially his sisters, who have taken care of him so many times.
 His two older sisters subscribed to the political conspiracies that have been popular with one political party this year.  Those sisters ostracized my wife and I from the family because we voted against the candidate that promoted them and continue to refuse to talk to us over political differences.

So his sisters found out that he's getting his first COVID vaccine shot tomorrow.  My wife spent hours searching for appointments and finally got him in.  He's been asking about when he can get a shot for the last 4 months, when it was announced that they were approved.  He knows he needs the shot or he'll die if he gets COVID.  His sisters called him today and told him NOT to get the shot, citing vaccine conspiracies to him (not enough testing on seniors, seniors dying, blah blah blah) and that it's too risky for him to get the vaccine.  They (and one niece) have all agreed that they won't be getting the shot, so they decided to take the most vulnerable person in our family and try to persuade him out of getting it too, as if it's any of their business. 

Thankfully, he just hung up on them and is committed to getting his vaccine.  I now have first-hand proof of the political idiocy of this vaccine debate.  My wife and I are furious at her aunts, but there's not much we can do without creating additional family drama that none of us feel like dealing with.  I'm so glad that despite my father in law's many physical and sometimes lack of common sense issues, he still has enough smarts to know when he's being fed a bunch of BS.

[TAC]

Good for him, Grap.

[Ben_Jamin]

I can't begin to express how irritated I am right now.

My father in law is 69, has Crohn's disease, which has wrecked his intestines and kidneys (he uses an ileostomy bag - like a colostomy, but it's his small intestine that empties into it).  He's had a heart attack and two strokes four years ago.  If he gets COVID, he's dead.  His body wouldn't be able to take it - Crohn's has destroyed him, physically. 

Our entire family knows this, they know how many times he's been in the hospital and nearly died from gastro-related infections, especially his sisters, who have taken care of him so many times.
 His two older sisters subscribed to the political conspiracies that have been popular with one political party this year.  Those sisters ostracized my wife and I from the family because we voted against the candidate that promoted them and continue to refuse to talk to us over political differences.

So his sisters found out that he's getting his first COVID vaccine shot tomorrow.  My wife spent hours searching for appointments and finally got him in.  He's been asking about when he can get a shot for the last 4 months, when it was announced that they were approved.  He knows he needs the shot or he'll die if he gets COVID.  His sisters called him today and told him NOT to get the shot, citing vaccine conspiracies to him (not enough testing on seniors, seniors dying, blah blah blah) and that it's too risky for him to get the vaccine.  They (and one niece) have all agreed that they won't be getting the shot, so they decided to take the most vulnerable person in our family and try to persuade him out of getting it too, as if it's any of their business. 

Thankfully, he just hung up on them and is committed to getting his vaccine.  I now have first-hand proof of the political idiocy of this vaccine debate.  My wife and I are furious at her aunts, but there's not much we can do without creating additional family drama that none of us feel like dealing with.  I'm so glad that despite my father in law's many physical and sometimes lack of common sense issues, he still has enough smarts to know when he's being fed a bunch of BS.

I am not getting the Vax. As I am young, and feel there's more that need it more than I do at this point (and me being from a minority that is considered high risk, to me, that doesn't matter at all, race shouldn't play a factor into it, just because most people in our race category has these underlying conditions, some of us are actually fine, and even got it and were fine, some of our people think they got it already as they got hit with a really bad sickness and people got laid out, but they are still alive and fine). I am also not one to tell people not to get it either. It's their choice whether to get it or not, It's not my decision to tell anyone what to do with their own bodies.

If anyone feels they need it, then by all means get it. That is not up to anyone but themselves.

Good for him for hanging up on them too. Sometimes, those type of people also need the good slap in the face type of treatment to understand it, it's unfortunate really, but there are times where people won't understand or get it until it is too late. It's like addicts not realizing they have a problem until they're on their deathbed, or when they do something that they know themselves is wrong. And sometimes, that realization won't occur until they themselves are struck with whatever it is, in this case the virus, and it could even be other things, like going without the comforts of life that others do not have.

[KevShmev]

Only side effect I've had today is an extremely sore upper arm at the injection point. Other than that.....all good.

Good to hear! 

[TAC]

Only side effect I've had today is an extremely sore upper arm at the injection point. Other than that.....all good.

YOU'RE ALIVE!!!!

 


Phew, that was a close one!

[ProfessorPeart]

Saw this today and, I don't know. I struggle to understand conspiracy theory people. Maybe that's the problem, they can't be understood.

This particular section of the story just made me  :

About 40 Marines gathered recently in a California conference room for an information session from medical staff. One officer, who was not authorized to publicly discuss private conversations and spoke on condition of anonymity, said Marines are more comfortable posing questions about the vaccine in smaller groups.

The officer said one Marine, citing a widely circulated and false conspiracy theory, said: “I heard that this thing is actually a tracking device.” The medical staff, said the officer, quickly debunked that theory, and pointed to the Marine’s cellphone, noting that it’s an effective tracker.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/thousands-service-members-saying-no-covid-vaccine-n1258214

Kudos to the medical professional. Almost every human carries a tracker with them everywhere they go. This whole microchip implant thing, like we are cats and dogs is just ludicrous. I don't know, stuff like this makes me weep for this country and our race.

[Ben_Jamin]

Saw this today and, I don't know. I struggle to understand conspiracy theory people. Maybe that's the problem, they can't be understood.

This particular section of the story just made me  :

About 40 Marines gathered recently in a California conference room for an information session from medical staff. One officer, who was not authorized to publicly discuss private conversations and spoke on condition of anonymity, said Marines are more comfortable posing questions about the vaccine in smaller groups.

The officer said one Marine, citing a widely circulated and false conspiracy theory, said: “I heard that this thing is actually a tracking device.” The medical staff, said the officer, quickly debunked that theory, and pointed to the Marine’s cellphone, noting that it’s an effective tracker.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/thousands-service-members-saying-no-covid-vaccine-n1258214

Kudos to the medical professional. Almost every human carries a tracker with them everywhere they go. This whole microchip implant thing, like we are cats and dogs is just ludicrous. I don't know, stuff like this makes me weep for this country and our race.

You'd think they'd have figured that out when they introduced Contact Tracing. It's like, what do you think Contact Tracing is? and what is used on?....(And give them that little flick to the head).

Then tell them about the Eyes in the sky, everytime you go into the store, and now even outside with Google Earth. 

It's why I joke and smile and wave.

[Stadler]

I've tried to say this in other ways, but from where I'm sitting it's not JUST "idiocy".  There's a healthy dose of FEAR in all this and as we all know, people do some wacky shit in the face of fear.   Add to that the fact that we seem to increasingly be a society that is commited to the inductive fallacy, that is, we have a conclusion - often rooted in emotion, not fact - and we fit those pieces of information we have to that conclusion where we need to in order to justify that emotion.   "Feelings are facts" is not just a meme or bumper sticker.

I'm going through this with some of my relatives too; it's not about "politics", at least not like we talk about them here.  For me, it's flat out fear, and the politics are just the pieces of information that are grabbed onto to sustain the fear.   My parents are 81 and 83.  Dad has severe acute early onset arthritis; his immune system has been shot for decades.  Minor colds are a trauma for him.  Mom has Alzheimer's, and is at that tipping point where she's still "mom", but not the mom I remember.  These two are a psychologist's wet dream; she's supported him his entire life, did all those physical things he could not do for him, from dressing him to cleaning him to sometimes literally carrying him.   He, in turn, did all those mental things that she wasn't great at; bills, banks, insurances, taking care of the home(s), etc.   They spend EVERY MINUTE of every day together.  She was in the hospital a month or so ago, and it was the first nights they didn't sleep in the same bed since AT LEAST 1990.  Now that she has Alzheimer's, my dad feels this deep obligation to return the favor so to speak (I've had to pledge to my dad multiple times that I will take care of mom if he goes first; it's a given, but he wants to hear it).

My dad is the perfect candidate for the shot.  90, 95% of the time, he's all in and wants to get it.  He's - mostly - a man of science, but his information sources are limited, and so I don't always know where he's getting his information.  I will, on occasion, get a call like this: "Hey Stads [he does not call me Stads], someone was telling me [something fucking ludicrous]".   That someone could be a neighbor, it could be Tucker Carlson, it could be something he overheard at the CVS, it could be something a doctor/nurse told him.  Who knows?  And I do what I can to set him straight, but I'm only as good as the questions I get.  I've been trying to get him one (Florida can blow me, BTW) and I will, but in the meantime, I have to basically "manage" him and make sure the fears and concerns don't overwhelm.   He's literally more afraid of dying than all other fears in his life combined.  That feeds this stuff.   While my dad is not what he used to be, by a long shot (he was, literally the smartest person I've ever met) he's no idiot.  He IS, though, a scared, tired old man who is overwhelmed with life and information, and a soupcon of desperation. 

[Ben_Jamin]

I've tried to say this in other ways, but from where I'm sitting it's not JUST "idiocy".  There's a healthy dose of FEAR in all this and as we all know, people do some wacky shit in the face of fear.   Add to that the fact that we seem to increasingly be a society that is commited to the inductive fallacy, that is, we have a conclusion - often rooted in emotion, not fact - and we fit those pieces of information we have to that conclusion where we need to in order to justify that emotion.   "Feelings are facts" is not just a meme or bumper sticker.

I'm going through this with some of my relatives too; it's not about "politics", at least not like we talk about them here.  For me, it's flat out fear, and the politics are just the pieces of information that are grabbed onto to sustain the fear.   My parents are 81 and 83.  Dad has severe acute early onset arthritis; his immune system has been shot for decades.  Minor colds are a trauma for him.  Mom has Alzheimer's, and is at that tipping point where she's still "mom", but not the mom I remember.  These two are a psychologist's wet dream; she's supported him his entire life, did all those physical things he could not do for him, from dressing him to cleaning him to sometimes literally carrying him.   He, in turn, did all those mental things that she wasn't great at; bills, banks, insurances, taking care of the home(s), etc.   They spend EVERY MINUTE of every day together.  She was in the hospital a month or so ago, and it was the first nights they didn't sleep in the same bed since AT LEAST 1990.  Now that she has Alzheimer's, my dad feels this deep obligation to return the favor so to speak (I've had to pledge to my dad multiple times that I will take care of mom if he goes first; it's a given, but he wants to hear it).

My dad is the perfect candidate for the shot.  90, 95% of the time, he's all in and wants to get it.  He's - mostly - a man of science, but his information sources are limited, and so I don't always know where he's getting his information.  I will, on occasion, get a call like this: "Hey Stads [he does not call me Stads], someone was telling me [something fucking ludicrous]".   That someone could be a neighbor, it could be Tucker Carlson, it could be something he overheard at the CVS, it could be something a doctor/nurse told him.  Who knows?  And I do what I can to set him straight, but I'm only as good as the questions I get.  I've been trying to get him one (Florida can blow me, BTW) and I will, but in the meantime, I have to basically "manage" him and make sure the fears and concerns don't overwhelm.   He's literally more afraid of dying than all other fears in his life combined.  That feeds this stuff.   While my dad is not what he used to be, by a long shot (he was, literally the smartest person I've ever met) he's no idiot.  He IS, though, a scared, tired old man who is overwhelmed with life and information, and a soupcon of desperation.

That's all this is, is fear.

Ask people what are they afraid of with this virus, and the main answer is fear of dying.

It's the fear of death....and me being me, I wonder why do people Fear death? Is it actually Death itself they're afraid of? Or is it, the pain of dying, the thought of not being here anymore, the worry of your family and kin? Each person will have their own answer. This is why I have been saying this is personal...It's a decision that is personal first, before it is wordly. It's made us realize things about Life and Society. It's awakened us to the realities of life and the priorities.

Do we continue living this way, for the comforts we have? Or do we, change and learn not to depend on certain things for basic necessities to survive and live?

Basically, you can either live in fear or understand the fear and face it...

And as history has taught us, everyone has their own solutions.

Imagine this, how are those Indigenous People that live in the jungles dealing with this...And then add in the effect of what happened when the colonizers came to "The New World". Theirs Tribes that attack planes and all that stuff.

[Dublagent66]

It's a personal decision based on one's personal circumstances.  It could be fear and a number of other legitimate reasons, but still personal whether they get the vaccine or not.  People are losing their jobs right now due to not being vaccinated because of someone else's fear?  Maybe that's the real problem.  Let's not forget that individuals react differently to vaccines just like they react differently to the virus itself.  Some people can't have the flu vaccine because they are allergic to eggs or chicken.  So, in all fairness, it's a multitude of fears and certain conditions and the vaccine is no guarantee anyway.  Get the vaccine or don't based on personal needs and/or concerns.  It's a very slippery slope if vaccines become mandated.  Go down that road and there's no turning back.  People have the right to make that choice for themselves.