Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 439283 times)

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Offline emtee

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6265 on: December 09, 2020, 10:36:41 AM »
"emtee's tone"

My post had a tone? I was praising the blessing coming our way via companies that are widely hated.

Whatever.


Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6266 on: December 09, 2020, 10:39:41 AM »

@ Stads... our gov't most certainly does "make" us do some of these things - building codes, health codes for the food industry, seatbelts for drivers, other safety standards for auto manufacturers ... the condom analogy falls apart (except for those knowing they have an STD), as does the teethbrushing, but the others do not.  As was noted, individual lack of compliance doesn't affect others in those senses.  Where gov't (imo) has the right to be involved is when said lack of compliance can directly affect the well-being of others.

Some of those are basic simple science, physical science. A seatbelt is just physics, and the Gov't realized this, "You go fast, and hit a wall, without a restraint, you will go splat into the wall" (Cars were invented not that long ago, and are now even faster and the body isn't made of the strong metal like the cars before). If you build a building that isn't up to code, basically shoddy construction work, your house will collapse and fall. If you don't follow health code you or your customers will get sick. It's like knowing getting punched in the nose will cause a nosebleed. It's not for the well-being of others.

The government, implemented those as a means for people's safety, and to regulate the safety of the customer. All those are company related. They made seatbelts a law, as they saw people not wearing seatbelts and were tired of the high death rate from an automobile crash that could easily have been prevented by a simple restraint. That's an easy thing to control. As the car doesn't have legs and is alive.

With the seatbelt analogy. I may choose to wear a seatbelt, but I should know, if I don't I risk getting thrown and going splat. But If I decide not to, I chose not to, and that is my choice, and I accept the consequences of that choice, whether good or bad.

People on the other hand, are not easily controlled. It's why we need an authoritarian figure to discipline, correct mistakes, and guide them to not make those mistakes again while being beneficial to society. It's a process, first you discipline, then you correct their mistakes, then you should guide them to be a better person in society. The US, doesn't do the last process. They just toss them back in society, and expect them to guide themselves, and correct their own mistakes. It's the concept of Subterranea, being secluded for so long and being let out into the world without guidance, it's why the main character ends up going back to the Provider, as a secluded prisoner needs that guidance or else they'll just revert back to what is familiar and comforting for them, which is to the provider of the Prison System.

It's why I say, are we really self-reliant or are we too reliant on "The Other"? I can tell you now, we are not self-reliant.

It's all so arbitrary, though, and is a big reason why I wrote what I did about America and our thirst for "quick and easy".  None of this is for the greater good.   NONE of it.  It's what's EASY.  If we cared about our drivers, getting a driver's license wouldn't be as easy as signing up for a magazine subscription.  I hear often (and will hear here, no doubt) that the seatbelt is for SOCIETAL good, but it's not.   It's for the INSURANCE company's good, but not society.   If they wanted to improve things for society, we would prevent the accident to begin with.   We'd install all cars with a jammer to prevent cellphone use in the car.  Instead, we're equipping them with blue tooth, and Alexa and touch screens and a 100 other things to distract us from the road.  We'd teach our kids how to really DRIVE a car, as opposed to "parallel park".   We'd renew that DRIVER'S ED - not just the license - every four years.   The idea that we need "government" to protect us is a delusion, at least up to the point that we're doing all we can to protect ourselves first, and we're nowhere close to that now.

I've come to view "getting government involved" as sort of an adult version of tattling to the teacher in grade school; it's a way to get people to do what you WANT them to do when they're simply doing things you don't like.

Yup, And I agree. I see that, especially within my community. Us as a natives, once understood this, but not many do anymore.

I really noticed the "quick and easy" got more intense when I stopped driving due to my DWI. I haven't drove for 5 years, and a couple months ago, got myself a car and a license again. What I noticed is people are driving much more faster, and seem to be in a rush. Constantly, riding my ass, or maneuvering in a hasty manner. And at the lines at Chik-Fil-A, I am amazed they noticed too and got smart to create another system to deal with the "quick and easy" demands of the customer.

I like that you brought up installing cell phone jammers. My friend said the same exact thing, only he used Interlocks. Our state is a great example, we have a high DWI rate, and mortality rate from it, yet, our state decides to praise the growing Brewing Industry, because "Free Money...Give me, give me, give me". Rather than doing a "Mandatory Interlock" since people can't choose to not drive, and we don't have good public transportation either, they make the penalties higher, and make us pay more for this mistake, which many do not have the means to do, and those people suffer from Alcoholism (which isn't fun at all), and no one will want to drink if they can't drive, because our public transportation is shit.


There is the easy way, which is quick and fast but isn't necessarily beneficial. Or there's the other way, which is more work and a bit harder and more time consuming, but it's simple and more beneficial. It's why my people were agricultural people (there's other reasons, but I am not going to go into that here).
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6267 on: December 09, 2020, 10:41:35 AM »

With the seatbelt analogy. I may choose to wear a seatbelt, but I should know, if I don't I risk getting thrown and going splat. But If I decide not to, I chose not to, and that is my choice, and I accept the consequences of that choice, whether good or bad.

So do you also give up the right to sue a guy that hit you for injuries that could've been avoided had you been wearing your seatbelt, and could your medical costs not be covered for the same reason?

Yes, because I was irresponsible for not wearing that seatbelt, so why should I sue someone for injuries that were caused by my irresponsibility. If I do sue someone, I am just being an asshole.

Did you not wearing the seatbelt CAUSE the accident?   Let the jury decide if you get $1,000,000 or $1, but if you didn't cause the accident, why should your seatbelt or not drive the decision to sue?    You'd have been fine if you never had to go through the windshield to begin with.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6268 on: December 09, 2020, 11:02:08 AM »
Except, in the case of corporations, it does, it seems.  I'm in agreement with you; it's a pet peeve of mine that so many people think that corporations should be carrying our societal water.   They are somehow responsible for our climate, our healthcare, our social mores, our familial economic choices...   frankly I think we ask too much of our corporations, in the sense that instead of making them RESPONSIBLE for this stuff, we ought to take them out of the loop entirely.   It's INSANE to me that we have continued to tie healthcare to our jobs in that way.   

This goes into not being "Self-Reliant" and being too reliant on "The other". We, Humanity, have evolved to be more reliant on "the other", that we lost the knowledge of being "Self-Reliant", which includes Growing and Hunting our own food, a bare necessity of life.


So what if they stand to make a profit on this?   How do we expect them to pay for the scientists, the equipment, the time, the materials, the intellectual property, to achieve these milestones?   What about the other firms that tried and failed (the White House apparently did not give Pfizer the exclusive rights to the vaccine, anticipating that as many as six firms would ultimately have a workable vaccine; a smart move in most instances, except the one where only Pfizer of the six achieved approval.)

For one, you'd think The Scientists, would do these things not out of money, but for the betterment of humanity in general. You'd think those scientists would see the betterment of humanity as payment enough for their work. Same can be said to the healthcare workers. To me, that is the definition of Greed. Doing things because of the money involved (or rewards) and not out of the kindness of your own heart (expecting nothing in return for your work).

The government should be funding the supplies, materials, and the equipment, for these scientists/healthcare workers, to do what needs to be done. But then, you have government being selective with their research "NO, it's forbidden to research this, and we won't fund you the supplies, materials, and equipment, if you decide to research it." (Cannabis and Hemp).

I don't care if they make a profit. It's a part of a Capitalist Society. I can choose not to buy their product. As I don't do now anyways, and won't ever. That's where I know that company is a greedy company and only cares about profits, and not the betterment of Society, and humanity as whole. Which would make them Sinister.

That's a philosophical question though; why should scientists and healthcare workers shoulder that burden?  Who's going to pay for the equipment, schooling, research, raw materials and testing for all this "free science"?   My cousin is a nurse in Connecticut, and that kid has worked her balls off for the last 10 months; who was going to pay her rent, buy her food, pay her car payments, etc. etc. while she was giving all this care out of the goodness of her heart?    I choose to think of "capitalism" slightly different than most; it's no different than communism except there are transfer payments.  It's an additional step.  And the "corruption" (in the sense of not being pure) of capitalism is greed, while the "corruption" of communism is socialist totalitarianism.  They both can be abused, but in the purer form facilitate a utility. 


I know it's philosophical. I tend to pose those questions a lot, mainly because they are questions, I feel, need to be asked right now.

Before the invention of money. We were people whom traded and bartered. I would trade, my fruits, my crafts, and items of necessity, for another item of necessity "the other" has that I do not but I also need. In return, "the other" is getting what they needed but didn't have. You had to know how to Farm, or make those crafts in order to survive. It's how slavery became a trade. People's Hard work and Labor was a form of trade and barter.

With the invention of money, we have 1 thing, that replaces "the crafts, fruits, and items of necessity". That 1 thing has become the "item of necessity", in order to get items we need to survive. It's made us rely on that 1 thing to give to the 1 person that makes those items of necessity.

This is in response to your question of "why should scientists and healthcare workers shoulder that burden?  Who's going to pay for the equipment, schooling, research, raw materials and testing for all this "free science"?" Because there is a reason why we Natives (or my ancestors/Tribe/Clan anyways) never had the concept of money. We were like "What the fuck is this" when we put out our hand for a handshake and the white man put a coin in his hand instead.

  "And the "corruption" (in the sense of not being pure) of capitalism is greed, while the "corruption" of communism is socialist totalitarianism.  They both can be abused, but in the purer form facilitate a utility."

That is a great quote, as It explains, my view of...I can't find the term so i'll say governments. Each one has a benefit to us as a collective humanity. It's when these governments get corrupted is when the bad begins to happen. It's why we have to find a balance between them all. And find out when the right time and place to use that certain government style. Like Socially we could be communist, Lawfully we are authoritarian, Capitalist in our ways of keeping resources from depleting, etc....It all depends on what aspects of life each one works better in. It's like knowing which farmer grows the best produce, and using that farmer to grow the supply for everybody, as that farmer has the knowledge and understanding of what that plants benefits are for humanity.

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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6269 on: December 09, 2020, 11:16:08 AM »

With the seatbelt analogy. I may choose to wear a seatbelt, but I should know, if I don't I risk getting thrown and going splat. But If I decide not to, I chose not to, and that is my choice, and I accept the consequences of that choice, whether good or bad.

So do you also give up the right to sue a guy that hit you for injuries that could've been avoided had you been wearing your seatbelt, and could your medical costs not be covered for the same reason?

Yes, because I was irresponsible for not wearing that seatbelt, so why should I sue someone for injuries that were caused by my irresponsibility. If I do sue someone, I am just being an asshole.

Did you not wearing the seatbelt CAUSE the accident?   Let the jury decide if you get $1,000,000 or $1, but if you didn't cause the accident, why should your seatbelt or not drive the decision to sue?    You'd have been fine if you never had to go through the windshield to begin with.

 I don't know how me not wearing a seatbelt can cause an accident, other than me forgetting about it and putting it on, yet losing control of the wheel or not paying attention to the traffic while I am doing that task. Wouldn't the cause then be distracted driving?

It shouldn't drive my decision to sue. It's why I would never sue for it.

And yup, I understand the physics of "If I go fast and don't have a restraint, and hit a brick wall, I will go through the window and go splat" so I put on my seatbelt. It's actually saved my life, and in turn let me save my friend from getting his face ripped to shreds.


In other words, I understand the risks that are involved in putting an unknown substance inside your body. And with the Trauma still embedded in me and my people. I will not take it. But, I don't mind if you guys do. Because if it works the way they say it should, then you should have no worries about me deciding to risk my health. As that won't be a problem right, as that's why we are locking down, wearing masks, and going through this circus, is to ease the pain until a vaccine/remedy is made to slow down the burden placed on our health systems.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6270 on: December 09, 2020, 11:24:44 AM »

With the seatbelt analogy. I may choose to wear a seatbelt, but I should know, if I don't I risk getting thrown and going splat. But If I decide not to, I chose not to, and that is my choice, and I accept the consequences of that choice, whether good or bad.

So do you also give up the right to sue a guy that hit you for injuries that could've been avoided had you been wearing your seatbelt, and could your medical costs not be covered for the same reason?

Yes, because I was irresponsible for not wearing that seatbelt, so why should I sue someone for injuries that were caused by my irresponsibility. If I do sue someone, I am just being an asshole.

Did you not wearing the seatbelt CAUSE the accident?   Let the jury decide if you get $1,000,000 or $1, but if you didn't cause the accident, why should your seatbelt or not drive the decision to sue?    You'd have been fine if you never had to go through the windshield to begin with.

 I don't know how me not wearing a seatbelt can cause an accident, other than me forgetting about it and putting it on, yet losing control of the wheel or not paying attention to the traffic while I am doing that task. Wouldn't the cause then be distracted driving?

It shouldn't drive my decision to sue. It's why I would never sue for it.

And yup, I understand the physics of "If I go fast and don't have a restraint, and hit a brick wall, I will go through the window and go splat" so I put on my seatbelt. It's actually saved my life, and in turn let me save my friend from getting his face ripped to shreds.


In other words, I understand the risks that are involved in putting an unknown substance inside your body. And with the Trauma still embedded in me and my people. I will not take it. But, I don't mind if you guys do. Because if it works the way they say it should, then you should have no worries about me deciding to risk my health. As that won't be a problem right, as that's why we are locking down, wearing masks, and going through this circus, is to ease the pain until a vaccine/remedy is made to slow down the burden placed on our health systems.

I think we crossed wires; I was going for something different.   I read you to say "why would I sue someone for my injuries if I wasn't wearing a seatbelt; that's my responsibility."   And while I agree with you, that assumes a lot.  There was STILL an accident, independent of your seatbelt use, and there was likely damage to the cars.  Whether you sue or not shouldn't be predicated on whether you were wearing a seatbelt or not, IF they caused the accident to begin with.  It's just the measure of your damages that would be affected (some might argue you have a duty to mitigate your damages, by wearing that seatbelt).

Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6271 on: December 09, 2020, 11:35:35 AM »
My seatbelt analogy took a turn far from the point I was making - gov'ts do enact laws that "enforce" people to take actions or behave in ways they may or may not have otherwise taken with the outcome being public safety - either at an individual level, or a community level.  I would argue the seatbelt mandate inconsequential to insurers - all of them ... Life, P&C, and Health.  They'd simply pass any form of higher costs from a lack of seatbelt legislation (and thus higher injury/fatality rates in accidents) to their customers.  So there is absolutely benefit to society - less crowded healthcare systems, less mortality, less cost to all forms of insurance.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6272 on: December 09, 2020, 11:43:30 AM »
I know it's philosophical. I tend to pose those questions a lot, mainly because they are questions, I feel, need to be asked right now.

Before the invention of money. We were people whom traded and bartered. I would trade, my fruits, my crafts, and items of necessity, for another item of necessity "the other" has that I do not but I also need. In return, "the other" is getting what they needed but didn't have. You had to know how to Farm, or make those crafts in order to survive. It's how slavery became a trade. People's Hard work and Labor was a form of trade and barter.

With the invention of money, we have 1 thing, that replaces "the crafts, fruits, and items of necessity". That 1 thing has become the "item of necessity", in order to get items we need to survive. It's made us rely on that 1 thing to give to the 1 person that makes those items of necessity.

This is in response to your question of "why should scientists and healthcare workers shoulder that burden?  Who's going to pay for the equipment, schooling, research, raw materials and testing for all this "free science"?" Because there is a reason why we Natives (or my ancestors/Tribe/Clan anyways) never had the concept of money. We were like "What the fuck is this" when we put out our hand for a handshake and the white man put a coin in his hand instead.

First let me say that I feel.... not uncomfortable, but disrespectful in a way, seeming to argue against your long traditions.  That's not what I'm doing.  I'm merely arguing from MY point of view, and from the system within which I work today (the global economy).   I don't view "money" as an other.  It's not a "1 thing" in my view, and in my view, it's seemed to take on a life of it's own, with magical properties (especially to those that don't have it).   It's not.  It's a means, a tool.  I think it's a mistake to give it mythical properties like that, or if we do, then at least don't forget the ultimate purpose.  I think we forget that our time slinging burgers, or sweeping floors (I was a janitor in a past life), or digging ditches (did that too) IS barter, just with an additional party involved.   It facilitates options and choice, where there might not have been in the more direct goods/goods trade.   

It's not money that is bad, it's the pride (entitlement) and envy that comes along with it (which both breed greed). 

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  "And the "corruption" (in the sense of not being pure) of capitalism is greed, while the "corruption" of communism is socialist totalitarianism.  They both can be abused, but in the purer form facilitate a utility."

That is a great quote, as It explains, my view of...I can't find the term so i'll say governments. Each one has a benefit to us as a collective humanity. It's when these governments get corrupted is when the bad begins to happen. It's why we have to find a balance between them all. And find out when the right time and place to use that certain government style. Like Socially we could be communist, Lawfully we are authoritarian, Capitalist in our ways of keeping resources from depleting, etc....It all depends on what aspects of life each one works better in. It's like knowing which farmer grows the best produce, and using that farmer to grow the supply for everybody, as that farmer has the knowledge and understanding of what that plants benefits are for humanity.

But the balance to capitalism isn't communism, nor vice versa.  The balance is that which alleviates the corruption.  Capitalism and communism are merely systems, tools, and neutering one with the other doesn't remove the corruption; I would even argue it just blunts the ability to effectively deal with the corruption.   I'm an avowed capitalist, but I'd have little problem with a communist regime, IF it was really a communist regime.   The problem with any of these systems is when we try to mix and match the good parts, ignoring why and how the bad parts got there to begin with.   

I've said before that if the U.S. changed overnight to "Spanish" as the national language, there would be a group of people that embraced the change for what it is - the reality in which they live - and there'd be a group that bitched and moaned about the "inequality" of it all.  I think we can name - if not by actual name, then by characteristics - who's in what group.  I have no doubt whatsoever that the Mark Cuban's, the Jeff Bezo's, the  Barack Obama's, would be hablando Espanol by Friday.  I see no real reason why those same people wouldn't prosper under a communist scheme, and those that are waiting for the entitlement would still be floundering. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6273 on: December 09, 2020, 01:10:07 PM »
My seatbelt analogy took a turn far from the point I was making - gov'ts do enact laws that "enforce" people to take actions or behave in ways they may or may not have otherwise taken with the outcome being public safety - either at an individual level, or a community level.  I would argue the seatbelt mandate inconsequential to insurers - all of them ... Life, P&C, and Health.  They'd simply pass any form of higher costs from a lack of seatbelt legislation (and thus higher injury/fatality rates in accidents) to their customers.  So there is absolutely benefit to society - less crowded healthcare systems, less mortality, less cost to all forms of insurance.

I don't think you're entirely wrong.   Haha, that sounds dickish.  I think you're largely right, except with the insurance aspect. Its a HUGE benefit to insurers; they realize what government has not, and that is, the resource is finite.   They cannot pass ALL the costs on to the people; there's a tipping point at which the risk or the cost gets out of whack.   The seatbelts - and the speed limits; that's a part of this too - temper the edges enough where the financials make sense.  The insurers make money - they ALWAYS make money, absent catastrophe - and the dynamic is preserved.

I'm saying this without judgment; I have no real rancor about the insurance companies; it's the system we live in.  I'm more calling attention to the notion that we've adopted that seems to want to moralize, or put judgment on, things that perhaps don't merit it.

Offline TAC

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6274 on: December 09, 2020, 04:12:34 PM »
Massachusetts announced their plans today..




My wife goes Phase One and I go Phase Two. We can probably get my son, who has asthma in Phase two as well.


But WTF?? People in jail get to go in Phase One? You gotta be fucking kidding me!
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Orbert

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6275 on: December 09, 2020, 04:39:15 PM »
Probably because they're in a situation where they cannot isolate.

Offline lordxizor

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6276 on: December 09, 2020, 04:43:45 PM »
Probably because they're in a situation where they cannot isolate.
Exactly. There have been a bunch of outbreaks in prisons.

Offline Chino

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6277 on: December 09, 2020, 04:47:27 PM »
Probably because they're in a situation where they cannot isolate.

That, but it doesn't even specify the inmates are getting the vaccine. It says "congregate care settings. Including corrections and shelters". Prisons are getting ravaged by Covid right now, and I'd imagine that the vaccines are intended for the guards, warden, the nurses and doctors in the infirmaries, the psychologists, any of the instructors there that teach courses, and the priest/spiritual guy. Also, inmates handle stuff in the kitchen, have to do each others laundry, and perform janitorial services. . Vaccinating the inmates would ensure the safety of the people that work in the prisons, as well as save the taxpayer a small fortune if it prevents a Covid outbreak inside those walls.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 04:54:32 PM by Chino »

Offline MoraWintersoul

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6278 on: December 09, 2020, 04:55:39 PM »
That sounds like a reasonable timeline for everyone. Hopefully there won't be any delays in the production chain for the vaccines, at least until they're done with phase one in most countries.

I've made up my mind, and when a few weeks from phase one pass in Norway, whenever that happens, I'll start volunteering again and using mass transport. When phase two is done, I'll start traveling locally again and join a gym, and when I'm vaccinated, I'll start attending events. When everyone's done, I'll stop wearing a mask. Can't wait for that. Sorry lipsticks, you're still only seeing the inside of my house :sadpanda:

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Offline TAC

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6279 on: December 09, 2020, 05:26:30 PM »
Probably because they're in a situation where they cannot isolate.

That, but it doesn't even specify the inmates are getting the vaccine. It says "congregate care settings. Including corrections and shelters". Prisons are getting ravaged by Covid right now, and I'd imagine that the vaccines are intended for the guards, warden, the nurses and doctors in the infirmaries, the psychologists, any of the instructors there that teach courses, and the priest/spiritual guy. Also, inmates handle stuff in the kitchen, have to do each others laundry, and perform janitorial services. . Vaccinating the inmates would ensure the safety of the people that work in the prisons, as well as save the taxpayer a small fortune if it prevents a Covid outbreak inside those walls.

All sound reasons.

Suppose it's just carmudgeon me that looks at some dude in jail getting the vaccine before my family.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6280 on: December 10, 2020, 04:28:07 AM »
I imagine I'll continue to wear a mask throughout 2021.... just have far less worries and concerns about being in 'crowded' situations (example, movie theatres).
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Offline TAC

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6281 on: December 10, 2020, 06:54:41 AM »
I imagine I'll continue to wear a mask throughout 2021.... just have far less worries and concerns about being in 'crowded' situations (example, movie theatres).

I'll likely just follow the guidance.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Hyperplex

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6282 on: December 10, 2020, 07:19:08 AM »
Being bombarded with memes and information is gut-wrenching amidst all of this. According to the latest numbers I just saw, yesterday saw 3,124 US COVID deaths, which means more people died from COVID yesterday than died in the 9/11 attacks. Only Antietam and the Galveston hurricane (and the San Francisco earthquake, depending on what count you reference) saw greater losses of American lives in one day.

It's mind-boggling.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6283 on: December 10, 2020, 09:08:59 AM »
Deleted, because I'm incompetent.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 09:27:51 PM by Stadler »

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6284 on: December 10, 2020, 09:09:48 AM »
Add to Phase One "People who need to go to a friggin' concert"  :lol :metal
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6285 on: December 10, 2020, 09:14:00 AM »
Being bombarded with memes and information is gut-wrenching amidst all of this. According to the latest numbers I just saw, yesterday saw 3,124 US COVID deaths, which means more people died from COVID yesterday than died in the 9/11 attacks. Only Antietam and the Galveston hurricane (and the San Francisco earthquake, depending on what count you reference) saw greater losses of American lives in one day.

It's mind-boggling.

Call it disaster fatigue, or what, but frankly, I'm tired of turning on the local news and every broadcast starting with the anchor in faux solemnity start with "New deadly milestones reached in the fight against COVID-19."  Got it, it's bad.  I mean, the data is important, and we need to know where we stand on all this, but there's no need for the hyperbole.  Even one more illness/death each day is pushing the boundaries, so the context is lost.  For me the totals are less informative or interesting than the trends, especially as compared to the February - April time period where we were still finding our way.   

Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6286 on: December 10, 2020, 09:14:46 AM »
My local hospital is going to start giving out the vaccine on the 23rd according to my DR friend.  I haven't seen a specific phase rollout like TAC shared, but I'm sure it'll be similar as that plan seems logical.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6287 on: December 10, 2020, 09:17:53 AM »
My local hospital is going to start giving out the vaccine on the 23rd according to my DR friend.  I haven't seen a specific phase rollout like TAC shared, but I'm sure it'll be similar as that plan seems logical.

Maybe I missed it, but has any vaccine actually been approved in the US?
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6288 on: December 10, 2020, 09:20:20 AM »
My local hospital is going to start giving out the vaccine on the 23rd according to my DR friend.  I haven't seen a specific phase rollout like TAC shared, but I'm sure it'll be similar as that plan seems logical.

Maybe I missed it, but has any vaccine actually been approved in the US?

Not yet, but they are prepping to have it ready regardless as they've been doing for months according to our NJ governor.  So maybe I should have worded it as "prepping to give out" but I think it's expected to be approved sooner than then.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6289 on: December 10, 2020, 09:33:18 AM »
I imagine I'll continue to wear a mask throughout 2021.... just have far less worries and concerns about being in 'crowded' situations (example, movie theatres).

I'll likely just follow the guidance.

Right, cuz the gov'ts guidance has been so clear and reliable to date!   ::)

My local hospital is going to start giving out the vaccine on the 23rd according to my DR friend.  I haven't seen a specific phase rollout like TAC shared, but I'm sure it'll be similar as that plan seems logical.

Maybe I missed it, but has any vaccine actually been approved in the US?

Health Canada approved Pfizer yesterday.
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6290 on: December 10, 2020, 09:37:16 AM »
I believe the meeting is today to approve it.  Saw it in the news this morning.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6291 on: December 10, 2020, 09:39:25 AM »
Being bombarded with memes and information is gut-wrenching amidst all of this. According to the latest numbers I just saw, yesterday saw 3,124 US COVID deaths, which means more people died from COVID yesterday than died in the 9/11 attacks. Only Antietam and the Galveston hurricane (and the San Francisco earthquake, depending on what count you reference) saw greater losses of American lives in one day.

It's mind-boggling.

Call it disaster fatigue, or what, but frankly, I'm tired of turning on the local news and every broadcast starting with the anchor in faux solemnity start with "New deadly milestones reached in the fight against COVID-19."  Got it, it's bad.  I mean, the data is important, and we need to know where we stand on all this, but there's no need for the hyperbole.  Even one more illness/death each day is pushing the boundaries, so the context is lost.  For me the totals are less informative or interesting than the trends, especially as compared to the February - April time period where we were still finding our way.

Yeah, not sure if you heard but another record was set today....









I imagine I'll continue to wear a mask throughout 2021.... just have far less worries and concerns about being in 'crowded' situations (example, movie theatres).

I'll likely just follow the guidance.

Right, cuz the gov'ts guidance has been so clear and reliable to date!   ::)


Well, I meant that at some point masks will no longer be required.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Chino

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6292 on: December 10, 2020, 09:40:43 AM »

Right, cuz the gov'ts guidance has been so clear and reliable to date!   ::)



I think the guidance has been fine in a lot of states. Citizens' inability to stay home or follow the basic guidance is the bigger issue. The government's guidance, with the exception of ass hats like Ted Cruz, was to make the ultimate sacrifice and not gather for Thanksgiving this year. Well, look how that went and look at the spike we're seeing now.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6293 on: December 10, 2020, 09:59:23 AM »
Well, I meant that at some point masks will no longer be required.

Fair point... I just don't see that being (for my level of comfort) to be until 2022.


Right, cuz the gov'ts guidance has been so clear and reliable to date!   ::)

I think the guidance has been fine in a lot of states. Citizens' inability to stay home or follow the basic guidance is the bigger issue. The government's guidance, with the exception of ass hats like Ted Cruz, was to make the ultimate sacrifice and not gather for Thanksgiving this year. Well, look how that went and look at the spike we're seeing now.

I guess I should clarify that I'm mostly speaking from the experience here with the Ontario Gov't.  Our Premier (ie, Governor) and relevant Ministers of various departments have cluster fucked every step of this, including delegating and/or avoiding responsibility on far too many things - delegating to the Municipal level, and even in some situations to private business; blaming the Federal layer; chastising some groups while diminishing the impact of others'.  It's been a trainwreck.

So, I'll use my own guidance based non-partisan health and scientific agencies.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6294 on: December 10, 2020, 10:09:23 AM »
I think you can still carry and maybe even transmit the virus even if you are vaccinated so I dont think the masks are going anywhere just yet.  I do hope by summer a significant enough of the population is vaccinated so that we don't need to worry about transmission and can take the masks off, but we'll have to wait and see.  That's a very optimistic look.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6295 on: December 10, 2020, 10:13:15 AM »
I stand by what I've written before:  I think my governor has handled this fantastically (and I'll remind I didn't vote for him and didn't want him to be governor; the previous governor started strong but finished very poorly, and I thought Lamont would continue those failed policies even further).  We don't have great numbers (anymore; we used to) but I'm increasingly seeing that the politicians are not the wielders of power here.  There's only so much that can be done if the people themselves are not invested in it. 

It's sad; even some people close to me, who I KNOW know better - and who are no more interested in listening to/following Ted Cruz and Donald Trump as Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is - are not always following the protocols.  I don't think - this is a pure guess, though - that it is necessarily "not taking it seriously" as it is in something more basic:  discipline.  They just don't seem to want to make the sacrifices.  Parties, holiday celebrations, whatever...

Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6296 on: December 10, 2020, 10:13:31 AM »
I think masks should become a more common thing like in certain parts of the world.   Whenever you have a cold or something  and you go out to a public space you could prevent spreading it to others.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6297 on: December 10, 2020, 10:13:44 AM »
I know it's "just a meme" and I don't know if it's 100% accurate, but it sounds about right.


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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6298 on: December 10, 2020, 10:16:21 AM »
https://www.cnet.com/news/the-story-behind-the-chilling-deadliest-days-in-american-history-meme/

(And while it's accurate as far as it goes, it's not complete.  For example, An estimated 6,600 Americans died on D-Day in 1944.  I'd ask about Gettysburg and the Battle of the Bulge as well, though I'll probably take stick for "losing the big picture".)
« Last Edit: December 10, 2020, 10:23:20 AM by Stadler »

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #6299 on: December 10, 2020, 10:34:48 AM »
I think masks should become a more common thing like in certain parts of the world.   Whenever you have a cold or something  and you go out to a public space you could prevent spreading it to others.

 :facepalm:

That's like saying we should all wear helmets, because We all may fall and break our fragile noggins.

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