Coronavirus

[Stadler]

Life throws curve balls all the time.  Some of them, pretty serious curve balls.

And some of them are 95mph heaters coming straight at your head.  No need for a child to feel like a Houston Astro batter every time he/she wakes up in the morning.  At some point, you just say go the opposite of John Fogerty "take me out coach, I ain't ready to play".

I get your point and I'm sympathetic, but sometimes the analogy fails; it's NOT a game, and there is no "I need a day off".

I think we're not on the same page with the analogy I'm trying to draw - so I'll be explicit.  Wholesale 'back to school' plans for students is the worst fucking idea I think I've ever heard.  I see no path for how this ends well.

My fault; I wasn't speaking so specifically.  I agree with you, by the way. 

[kirksnosehair]

First day of school at a high school in Georgia. This is going to go well...

This school district is messed up.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/georgia-school-reopening-photo-paulding-county

Oh, and the student that took that picture - suspended for it.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/student-suspended-showing-fellow-students-065443749.html

My son and grandchildren live in Georgia and the willful ignorance that's going on down there right now among the general population is really infuriating.  My daughter-in-law just gave birth to my grandson a month ago and now she's got to go back to work in a few weeks teaching kindergarten.  The damned school isn't even mandating masks.  Not for anyone.  Not for kids, not for teachers, not for the cafeteria workers, nobody is required to wear a face covering.   

She and my son are petrified that she's going to catch the virus from one of her kids and bring it home to her family. 


If this pandemic has taught me anything it's the fact that about 1/3 of the people who live in this country are profoundly and willfully ignorant.  And on top of that, the vast majority of them don't give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut about anyone other than themselves. 

[Ben_Jamin]

First day of school at a high school in Georgia. This is going to go well...

This school district is messed up.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/mollyhensleyclancy/georgia-school-reopening-photo-paulding-county

Oh, and the student that took that picture - suspended for it.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/student-suspended-showing-fellow-students-065443749.html

My son and grandchildren live in Georgia and the willful ignorance that's going on down there right now among the general population is really infuriating.  My daughter-in-law just gave birth to my grandson a month ago and now she's got to go back to work in a few weeks teaching kindergarten.  The damned school isn't even mandating masks.  Not for anyone.  Not for kids, not for teachers, not for the cafeteria workers, nobody is required to wear a face covering.   

She and my son are petrified that she's going to catch the virus from one of her kids and bring it home to her family. 


If this pandemic has taught me anything it's the fact that about 1/3 of the people who live in this country are profoundly and willfully ignorant.  And on top of that, the vast majority of them don't give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut about anyone other than themselves.

That's the sad reality. Assholes will still be Assholes, regardless. Taking that into account, Are we doing the best we can to protect OURSELVES from those people? So far, I feel the best is being done. I feel bad for residents of Georgia their Governor isn't taking it into account to mandate at least some protection in the schools at the very least.

I feel now we could have let businesses be left open, limited the capacity, mandated masks in the buildings, and let everybody know they assume all risks if they catch the sickness by stepping out the front door of their homes. And one positive case within the business, shut it down for a mandatory deep cleansing,but still let it be open, people can decide not to go if they feel it's not safe.


 

[TAC]

They actually referred to him as a "whistleblower".

Folks, if you're doing something, and you punish someone you call a "whistleblower", isn't that a pretty good indication that you're doing something wrong?

To be fair, it was the reporter that called him a whistleblower.


But your point is on point. The principal doesn't want anyone questioning WTF is going on in there.

[Dublagent66]

Like I said before in a previous post, it all comes down to the choices of individuals.  The guidelines have been communicated at a national, regional and local level.  If someone isn't aware of the guidelines, then they've probably been living under a rock of complete and utter ignorance.  The shutdowns and guidelines were put in place from the very beginning to slow the spread.  It worked until everybody tried to open up again safely and people went nuts on a free-for-all like nothing ever happened.  Now they wonder what happened and why.  Looking for someone to blame.  Someone in charge.  If multitudes of people aren't up the playing by the rules, they are to blame.  No one else.

[Orbert]

That's the whole problem, though.  I should not have been left up to personal choice, because we know -- and have now seen irrefutable evidence -- that people will not play by the rules and will not put others ahead of their own selfish selves.  Some, but not nearly the huge majority that it would take to make it work.

What should have happened from the beginning was a nationwide mandate.  Stay the fuck home!  Celebrities were making TV and radio spots telling people to stay home, and some people somewhere hoped that that would be enough.  Nice try.  Some countries literally imposed stay-at-home orders, imposed martial law, and arrested people for violating it.  Crack down hard to start with; you can always ease up later.  That's what the scientists and medical experts said, but nobody wanted to do that.  So now that the population is being ravaged, they're trying to crack down a little bit, even as other areas still don't get it and are opening up.

Once again, there are countries that have (mostly) beaten this.  We have models we could have followed.  "But the economy!  But my freedoms!"  Fuck that.  The economy and your freedoms don't matter if we're all dead.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Only 1% of us will die, though.

^ Hard to tell in text, but this is said in biting sarcasm.

[Orbert]

I suppose that by saying we'll "all" be dead, I'm exaggerating, and therefore not signficantly better than those who swing too far the other way.  I'm the doomsayer to the other side's carefree, beachgoing idiots.  I just don't want to be in that 1%.  And we need to remember that that 1% is not evenly distributed across the population.  For all the charts and graphs I've seen over the past six months, I don't remember seeing one mapping survival % vs age, though I'm sure someone's done one, and I can guess what it looks like.  It has a generally positive slope.

[jingle.boy]

For all the charts and graphs I've seen over the past six months, I don't remember seeing one mapping survival % vs age, though I'm sure someone's done one, and I can guess what it looks like.  It has a generally positive slope.

Except for the 7-year old that died in Georgia today; or the 2nd grader that tested positive in Georgia after day 1 of school (not suggesting the child contracted it at school, just coincidental timing).

[Dreammajesty]

Look !! at the 17.000 idiots?? who where there for their freedom .....it was about 1.3 million people. 17.000 is what the fake media tells you.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjk7QFwzMVY

All the media does is fearmongering ,everyone is afraid to die.So what better way than a deadly virus to scare people with only one solution.Which by the way is rapidly developed faster than any other vaccine.Phew that's a relief.I think i'll take it because my immunesystem isn't that good.Bet'cha it's gonna  fail afterwards

You have to search for the ties, there's basically one family who set up and supported the nowadays medical world and possibly science too.All natural medical treatments are mostly banned or will be.

For more ties look at this documentary fall of the cabal   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjk7QFwzMVY

Saying tinfoil hat look who's wearing eye protection and face masks now

[MirrorMask]

...you do know that there was already a coronavirus less than 20 years ago, right?

....you do know that scientists have been warning about the dangers of a possible pandemic for years, right?

Speaking of dangers of pandemics, google "dangers of bacteria in permafrost" - you'll find many articles, some of which are not recent but old, about the chance that global warming might melt the polar caps or glaciers that hold millennia old bacteria or viruses that were long dormant and frozen in ice.

Guess what - the same many articles, years old, warning about the possibile future pandemics are also there, just like the warning about the dangers of viruses in the ice are.

Can you give me a valid and rational explanation about how the articles saying since years "Hey guys, there's the reisk that if the ice melts, some old viruses will be released" are valid, but all the articles saying since years "Hey guys, we might have another pandemic like the SARS if not worse" are not valid?

[Orbert]

For all the charts and graphs I've seen over the past six months, I don't remember seeing one mapping survival % vs age, though I'm sure someone's done one, and I can guess what it looks like.  It has a generally positive slope.

Except for the 7-year old that died in Georgia today; or the 2nd grader that tested positive in Georgia after day 1 of school (not suggesting the child contracted it at school, just coincidental timing).

That's why I said "generally".  That children are also dying is not news.  From the beginning, it's been known that anyone can get it, but the elderly those with other health issues are higher risk.  I've seen nothing that refutes that, and your exceptions are exactly that: exceptions to the general curve.

[Stadler]

I see both sides of this. I see and understand the outrage for "my people" (mine are in North Carolina and Florida, not Georgia, but my boss is there - with his two young children - and I have friends there).   

But the fact is, calling people you don't agree with "ignorant", because they don't follow YOUR model of the way things are is problematic for me.  The governor of Georgia was voted in.  By whatever system they use, the people elected him.  Granted, they don't necessarily have to like and accept every subsequent decision, but this is how it works.  I don't like the ACA even a little bit, but that doesn't mean that everyone that does like it is "ignorant" or "out for themselves".   That people might die as a result of these actions doesn't change that.

There are options here, of varying degrees of effectiveness and palatability.   Don't go, for one.   File a motion for an injunction, for two.  This is not a minor issue, this is not an obscure debate, I cannot IMAGINE there's not a law firm somewhere in Georgia or elsewhere that wouldn't take this for the PR bump itself.    File a motion in court, and demand an injunction.   

I'm in a state where they're doing EVERYTHING right (and I mean that almost literally).  I've written here before that I've been blown away by my governor, a governer I didn't like and didn't vote for.    He's handling this as if reading from the textbook of the Gods.  Even the esteemed Dr. Fauci appeared at a press conference locally, with our governor, in the last week discussing the situation here.  Having said that, we're starting school here in a couple weeks.  There's not a clear answer about protocols and procedures (though that's been mandated and expected by the time school starts), and there's a pretty stark discrepancy between the state's plan and a plan unilaterally proposed by the Connecticut teacher's union.  My son is on the spectrum, and for him this is going to be a difficult circumstance.  We're likely going to keep him home.  This in turn means he will likely fall behind in his development, but these are the cards we're dealt.   I don't feel entitled to call everyone whose plans don't conform to mine names or make the system bend to my needs. 

[TAC]

Massachusetts is leaving it up to the individual districts.

We're lucky in my town because it's a small town and a relatively small student population. About 100 kids per grade.

Our plan is that half of the kids (A-L) are going in person Mon & Tues, while the other half (M-Z) is remote. All students are remote on Wednesday. On Thurs and Fri, Group M-Z will be in person and Group A-L will be remote.

Of course parents also have to option the have their kids do remote only.

Our superintendent (who is in his first year in the position , was through this year the HS principal) has been really good about keeping us up to date. He's been sending out daily FAQ's that he's received and communication has ben really good.

[Stadler]

Mine is the school system that couldn't fire a woman for failing to protect her students (Altressa Cox-Blackwell; she was given a box of bullets found on a bus, and a complaint of an assault against a student and failed to report both to her superiors and the police; when disciplined, she claimed it was because she was a woman, of color, and of age.  In exchange for her dropping her claim she was promoted to "Dean" of the local high school) and who employed another senior administrator whose advice to me - when my wife and I went in to discuss the bullying being experienced by my stepdaughter - was "well, it's April, and she graduates in June; can we just ride it out?"

So, yeah.  All that factors into the equation.

[TAC]

That is fucked.

[jingle.boy]

That is fucked.

That is beyond fucked

[Dublagent66]

That's the whole problem, though.  I should not have been left up to personal choice, because we know -- and have now seen irrefutable evidence -- that people will not play by the rules and will not put others ahead of their own selfish selves.  Some, but not nearly the huge majority that it would take to make it work.

What should have happened from the beginning was a nationwide mandate.  Stay the fuck home!  Celebrities were making TV and radio spots telling people to stay home, and some people somewhere hoped that that would be enough.  Nice try.  Some countries literally imposed stay-at-home orders, imposed martial law, and arrested people for violating it.  Crack down hard to start with; you can always ease up later.  That's what the scientists and medical experts said, but nobody wanted to do that.  So now that the population is being ravaged, they're trying to crack down a little bit, even as other areas still don't get it and are opening up.

Once again, there are countries that have (mostly) beaten this.  We have models we could have followed.  "But the economy!  But my freedoms!"  Fuck that.  The economy and your freedoms don't matter if we're all dead.

Nobody has beaten this virus, yet.  People will ultimately decide for themselves whether or not to obey the guidelines.  Mandated or not.  If the economy and freedoms vanish, we're all dead anyway.  You really want government imposing their will?  It's still "we the people" right?  Individuals need to make the right choice.  Follow the guidelines to slow the spread.  Don't follow the guidelines and risk sickness and possible death.  It's that simple.

[cramx3]

Our plan is that half of the kids (A-L) are going in person Mon & Tues, while the other half (M-Z) is remote. All students are remote on Wednesday. On Thurs and Fri, Group M-Z will be in person and Group A-L will be remote.

My friend in NJ is a teacher and just got his plan for opening this fall.  Almost exactly the same except they are breaking it into four groups, so kids are only in 1 day a week, everyone home Wednesday and for whatever reason, everyone home the first week.  And they will adjust as necessary.  He's not happy, not because he has to go back in, but because of how difficult this will be to follow all the guidlines.  He actually wants to go back because he feels the remote approach doesn't work well at all.

[Stadler]

The sort of cherry on the sundae, that woman - ACB - handed my stepdaughter her diploma.   

[Orbert]

Nobody has beaten this virus, yet.

There are countries which have flattened the curve and are returning to normal now.

You really want government imposing their will?  It's still "we the people" right?

Yes and yes.  The government is also "for the people".  We have countless laws to protect the safety of all citizens.  Traffic laws, laws against theft and murder, laws regarding how to conduct business.  This is no different.

Individuals need to make the right choice.  Follow the guidelines to slow the spread.  Don't follow the guidelines and risk sickness and possible death.  It's that simple.

No, it's not that simple.  If people want to not follow the guidelines, it is others who are affected.  That is the difference I've repeatedly tried to emphasize, but no one seems to get it.  And again, people have proven over and over that they will not make the right choice.  Saying "they need to... it's that simple" doesn't change a thing.  People don't even act in their own self-interest, they sure as hell won't act in the interest of others.

[lordxizor]

Nobody has beaten this virus, yet.

There are countries which have flattened the curve and are returning to normal now.

Are there any that reopened their economies a month or more ago that aren't seeing increases in new cases (apart from a couple that only had a few cases in the first place)? I thought it was pretty universal that they are. Flattening the curve isn't enough. Going back to any semblance of normal will cause cases to increase again unless the virus is completely eradicated from an area and the can keep new people out. Eradication of the virus is virtually impossible in the current environment.

[jingle.boy]

You look at what Australia is doing, and that is certainly restricting freedoms.  FWIW, I don't have any issue with their approach.  China welding doors shut to keep people in their apt complexes... that's a bit much.

I'm still unclear what legal and constitutional freedoms are being encroached in the US?

Rules and restrictions in the name of public health are not new.  Let's see a restaurant cook staff not wear a hair net (in the name of FREEDOM!), and see how well that goes over.

And yes, economies can gradually open, and still keep case counts low.  Ontario (population of about 14.5M people) is still only in double-digit daily new cases, and have re-opened virtually everything - still with quite a few limitations on things like how many people can congregate.

[TAC]

The sort of cherry on the sundae, that woman - ACB - handed my stepdaughter her diploma.

AWESOME!!

[lordxizor]

I'm still unclear what legal and constitutional freedoms are being encroached in the US?

When people are saying their freedoms are being taken away, I don't think many think they are being stripped of constitutional freedoms. There are not any constitutional freedoms being taken away as far as I know. However, I was free to walk in a store without a mask on two weeks ago. Now I'm not. So there was a freedom taken away.

[Adami]

I'm still unclear what legal and constitutional freedoms are being encroached in the US?

When people are saying their freedoms are being taken away, I don't think many think they are being stripped of constitutional freedoms. There are not any constitutional freedoms being taken away as far as I know. However, I was free to walk in a store without a mask on two weeks ago. Now I'm not. So there was a freedom taken away.

But that's a privilege. Several weeks ago I was free to pay less for gas than I am now.

[lordxizor]

I'm still unclear what legal and constitutional freedoms are being encroached in the US?

When people are saying their freedoms are being taken away, I don't think many think they are being stripped of constitutional freedoms. There are not any constitutional freedoms being taken away as far as I know. However, I was free to walk in a store without a mask on two weeks ago. Now I'm not. So there was a freedom taken away.

But that's a privilege. Several weeks ago I was free to pay less for gas than I am now.

That's not really a good comparison at all. One is the free market pricing a commodity, the other is the government changing the rules on public behavior, and mostly unilaterally by governors without any oversight by the legislative branches of state governments. I get your point though. I just think it's silly to think anytime government takes away people's freedoms (or privilege I guess?) to act in a way that has been considered to be completely normal for basically all of human history that you're not going to get a little push back. Taking away freedoms, no matter how trivial they may seem, shouldn't be taken lightly.

[Adami]

They're not being taken lightly. But it comes down to "do I consider this a matter of public safety?"

The truth is that while most people say yes, enough people say no to essentially ruin it for everyone. That's why the government steps in.

[Dublagent66]

Nobody has beaten this virus, yet.

There are countries which have flattened the curve and are returning to normal now.

You really want government imposing their will?  It's still "we the people" right?

Yes and yes.  The government is also "for the people".  We have countless laws to protect the safety of all citizens.  Traffic laws, laws against theft and murder, laws regarding how to conduct business.  This is no different.

Individuals need to make the right choice.  Follow the guidelines to slow the spread.  Don't follow the guidelines and risk sickness and possible death.  It's that simple.

No, it's not that simple.  If people want to not follow the guidelines, it is others who are affected.  That is the difference I've repeatedly tried to emphasize, but no one seems to get it.  And again, people have proven over and over that they will not make the right choice.  Saying "they need to... it's that simple" doesn't change a thing.  People don't even act in their own self-interest, they sure as hell won't act in the interest of others.

I'm not affected by others who don't follow the guidelines because I made an individual choice to follow the guidelines for nearly 5 months now.  It works.  It should be just as simple for anyone else who decides to make the right choice.  You're saying there is a "one size fits all" solution.  That's logistically impossible.  Every country is different and most countries have considerably less people than the U.S.  There are also many different cultures to consider and the types of governments who run them.  Do you actually think that any law can be 100% enforced anywhere in the world?  No one is completely safe and can't be completely protected.  So, it comes down to an individual choice once again.  Nobody else can make that choice for you.  Do the right thing and stay clear from those who don't.  Be accountable, take responsibility and stop waiting for someone else to do it.

[lordxizor]

They're not being taken lightly. But it comes down to "do I consider this a matter of public safety?"

The truth is that while most people say yes, enough people say no to essentially ruin it for everyone. That's why the government steps in.

I get that sure. I don't agree with the way it's being done more than the mandates being passed, but in the end what I think doesn't matter I guess.

[jingle.boy]

They're not being taken lightly. But it comes down to "do I consider this a matter of public safety?"

The truth is that while most people say yes, enough people say no to essentially ruin it for everyone. That's why the government steps in.

I get that sure. I don't agree with the way it's being done more than the mandates being passed, but in the end what I think doesn't matter I guess.

And with any additional reviews, oversights, committees etc... days/weeks/months pass.  It was clear from the outset that days of inaction quite literally cost thousands of lives.  MirrorMask was reiterating it to us from Italy - gov't inaction killed people.  Literally.  I'm not using that word figuratively.

[lordxizor]

They're not being taken lightly. But it comes down to "do I consider this a matter of public safety?"

The truth is that while most people say yes, enough people say no to essentially ruin it for everyone. That's why the government steps in.

I get that sure. I don't agree with the way it's being done more than the mandates being passed, but in the end what I think doesn't matter I guess.

And with any additional reviews, oversights, committees etc... days/weeks/months pass.  It was clear from the outset that days of inaction quite literally cost thousands of lives.  MirrorMask was reiterating it to us from Italy - gov't inaction killed people.  Literally.  I'm not using that word figuratively.

I was fine with governors taking action immediately. That's why those powers are in place to do things faster than can be done with normal legislative channels. I don't think that 5 months later the legislature should continue to be shut out of the decisions.

[Elite]

Saying tinfoil hat look who's wearing eye protection and face masks now

For someone who mistrusts the government and actual science, pretending to know better, it’s astounding that you take random crap, conspiracy theories and general bullshit thrown together because of coincidental correlation for granted without any criticism whatsoever.

[Dreammajesty]

They've  shown it to be mistrusted several times.The problem is once you see it,it can't be unseen.

This covid story is one big 911 on mankind or do you still believe some muslims who never had flown before knew how to crash those big airplanes into the twin towers ??

But you don't have to believe me,if you want to know do your own research.Take the red or the blue pill

i know one thing and that is that all is connected

It's only a matter of time before the astonishing will rise   

You call it conspiracy a term made up by fbi to discredit  others.Isn't it weird that people who run this shit are related?Coincidence doesn't excist.

[lonestar]

No phrase extinguishes all credibility to an argument quite like 'do your own research', it's the siren's call of the anti-vaxxer.