Coronavirus

[Chino]

re: Cain... definitely shitty, and karma at work.  I'm just a proponent of the notion that time plus tragedy equals comedy.  Same day isn't exactly the right amount of time when it comes to someone's passing.

I wasn't trying to make a joke out of it.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Yeah, I'd hope it causes people on his side of the fence to take this shit a bit more seriously, although my hopes aren't particularly high.

[jingle.boy]

re: Cain... definitely shitty, and karma at work.  I'm just a proponent of the notion that time plus tragedy equals comedy.  Same day isn't exactly the right amount of time when it comes to someone's passing.

I wasn't trying to make a joke out of it.

It's all good Brian - I didn't think you were... to be clear I was saying that on the matter of if it had been fabricated.

[Orbert]

So let me get this straight: Herman Cain had COVID-19, knew he had it, went to a rally where he didn't wear a mask because he was against masks (and thus exposed everyone else at the rally), and actually died there from COVID-19?  And people are fine with this?

Seriously asking.  I can't keep up with all the news that's news due to all the news that isn't news but is actually made-up bullshit.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

My understanding is that he was diagnosed after the rally, was subsequently hospitalized for several weeks, and then died.

[Chino]

So let me get this straight: Herman Cain had COVID-19, knew he had it, went to a rally where he didn't wear a mask because he was against masks (and thus exposed everyone else at the rally), and actually died there from COVID-19?  And people are fine with this?

Seriously asking.  I can't keep up with all the news that's news due to all the news that isn't news but is actually made-up bullshit.

I haven't seen that he knew he had it, but everything else you said is correct. He went to the hospital with Corona nine days after the rally, so it is possible he had it prior to the event.

[Orbert]

Oh, okay.  I thought the rally was also yesterday, since someone said he tweeted during the rally, and he apparently died yesterday.  Somehow I thought that those two events were related.

I realize that there are disadvantages as well as advantages to intentionally avoiding the news, but I knew I could count on DTF to help out. 

[Grappler]

Our school district held an emegency meeting last night and voted to change their school plan to remote schooling. 

My boss sits on a school board and he told me that districts are changing to remote learning because of the guidelines that are handed to them.  In order to be protected from liability via tort law, they are required to follow and comply with all state, federal and local guidelines.   In the case of COVID, the federal and state guidelines are so contradictory and restrictive that it is impossible to comply with them.  They don't know which guidelines to follow and which could create liability if they don't follow them.  So school districts are going to remote learning because they could open themselves up to so much liability if there is even one small breach in how they follow the guidelines.  Most business insurance policies do not cover liability due to communicable disease transmission, so there's no insurance to protect the schools for lawsuits related to COVID.

So for any school problems, at least in Illinois, it's not the school board's faults....it is very honestly the fact that our federal and state governments cannot see eye to eye regarding COVID, and it's keeping kids out of schools as a result.  Whether that's a good or bad thing depends on your own opinion, but I think it sucks that kids could go to school if our stupid governmental branches could figure out a way to coexist and handle this as a team.

[Stadler]

Yeah, I'd hope it causes people on his side of the fence to take this shit a bit more seriously, although my hopes aren't particularly high.

Is it too much to ask to retire the politicization of this?    It's NOT JUST REPUBLICANS.   California.  Texas.   I get that we're talking about a Republican, who might have gotten this from a Republican-themed congregation, but that's but one example.   Generally, it's INCONSIDERATE AMERICANS of BOTH PARTIES.  Of NO PARTY.   I live in a VERY blue state, and we have our share of assholes and idiots that aren't interested in even minor concessions to the well-being of those around.    Each of the last three weekends I've gotten texts indicating that "public parks/beaches are closed due to capacity".   It's not just "Republicans" going to the beach. 

[Chino]

Yeah, I'd hope it causes people on his side of the fence to take this shit a bit more seriously, although my hopes aren't particularly high.

Is it too much to ask to retire the politicization of this?    It's NOT JUST REPUBLICANS.   California.  Texas.   I get that we're talking about a Republican, who might have gotten this from a Republican-themed congregation, but that's but one example.   Generally, it's INCONSIDERATE AMERICANS of BOTH PARTIES.  Of NO PARTY.   I live in a VERY blue state, and we have our share of assholes and idiots that aren't interested in even minor concessions to the well-being of those around.    Each of the last three weekends I've gotten texts indicating that "public parks/beaches are closed due to capacity".   It's not just "Republicans" going to the beach.

I could be entirely wrong on this as I'm basing on only behavior I have observed... but you could go to any state and poll the first 100 people you encountered without a mask, and I bet at least 80% would identify as non-democrats.

[Stadler]

Our school district held an emegency meeting last night and voted to change their school plan to remote schooling. 

My boss sits on a school board and he told me that districts are changing to remote learning because of the guidelines that are handed to them.  In order to be protected from liability via tort law, they are required to follow and comply with all state, federal and local guidelines.   In the case of COVID, the federal and state guidelines are so contradictory and restrictive that it is impossible to comply with them.  They don't know which guidelines to follow and which could create liability if they don't follow them.  So school districts are going to remote learning because they could open themselves up to so much liability if there is even one small breach in how they follow the guidelines.  Most business insurance policies do not cover liability due to communicable disease transmission, so there's no insurance to protect the schools for lawsuits related to COVID.

So for any school problems, at least in Illinois, it's not the school board's faults....it is very honestly the fact that our federal and state governments cannot see eye to eye regarding COVID, and it's keeping kids out of schools as a result.  Whether that's a good or bad thing depends on your own opinion, but I think it sucks that kids could go to school if our stupid governmental branches could figure out a way to coexist and handle this as a team.

In my state, at least in my neck of the woods, the "Federal" guidelines aren't even a factor.  What Ned Lamont says, goes (he's our governor, and I don't mean that literally; I use him as a representative of the state government).   Generally speaking if there IS conflict, going with the more restrictive of the two is the prudent course of action IF the impetus is avoiding culpability.

I didn't vote for him; in fact, I actively voted against him, but I regret that now.  I don't agree with much of his politics, but he is the shining example of someone that rose to the occasion, put politics aside (almost completely; I have not heard him say even ONE THING that could be construed as "party politics", including not once EVER saying anything disparaging about the opposition party), and met the needs of ALL his people.   He's got my support from this point out, unequivocally.   

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Stadler my buddy, I would be thrilled for public safety to not be a political issue, but bizarrely it is. Sure, you can find assholes everywhere. I wouldn't dispute that, and I don't think anyone else would either. But in general, the people who are starkly anti-mask or 'you can't force me to not [insert thing here]' are on the Trump end of the spectrum, and they're following the lead of Trump and other higher-ups on the Republican side.

If you don't see any political component to people disregarding a virus that was also disregarded by the president and other top Republicans, I don't really know what to say.

[ErHaO]

Yeah, I'd hope it causes people on his side of the fence to take this shit a bit more seriously, although my hopes aren't particularly high.

Is it too much to ask to retire the politicization of this?    It's NOT JUST REPUBLICANS.   California.  Texas.   I get that we're talking about a Republican, who might have gotten this from a Republican-themed congregation, but that's but one example.   Generally, it's INCONSIDERATE AMERICANS of BOTH PARTIES.  Of NO PARTY.   I live in a VERY blue state, and we have our share of assholes and idiots that aren't interested in even minor concessions to the well-being of those around.    Each of the last three weekends I've gotten texts indicating that "public parks/beaches are closed due to capacity".   It's not just "Republicans" going to the beach.

You are absolutely right, people are being irresponsible over the entire political spectrum.

Buuut in this instance that man was literally at a political rally with one of the subjects being that the reaction to covid is some old bullshit. If he openly campaigns/talks like that, then yes, one would hope this would be a clear sign to people on his side of the fence (aka his followers) to take it seriously.

Also, as Shadow said, one party has repeatedly handwaved the entire issue. Over here, both the left and right do not do that. Hell, our current prime minister is right wing and he takes this crisis very seriously. The US seems to have entirely different dynamics.

[Stadler]

Yeah, I'd hope it causes people on his side of the fence to take this shit a bit more seriously, although my hopes aren't particularly high.

Is it too much to ask to retire the politicization of this?    It's NOT JUST REPUBLICANS.   California.  Texas.   I get that we're talking about a Republican, who might have gotten this from a Republican-themed congregation, but that's but one example.   Generally, it's INCONSIDERATE AMERICANS of BOTH PARTIES.  Of NO PARTY.   I live in a VERY blue state, and we have our share of assholes and idiots that aren't interested in even minor concessions to the well-being of those around.    Each of the last three weekends I've gotten texts indicating that "public parks/beaches are closed due to capacity".   It's not just "Republicans" going to the beach.

I could be entirely wrong on this as I'm basing on only behavior I have observed... but you could go to any state and poll the first 100 people you encountered without a mask, and I bet at least 80% would identify as non-democrats.

That's certainly the common trope, and I understand why you would say it.  Certainly a higher percentage of Democrats always/mostly/sometimes wear a mask, but there are other demographics that play in as well, including region, gender, and education levels.  I think if the goal is to encourage others to join the coalition, exclusion and singling out isn't the way to get there; if anything it likely reinforces the divide. 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Yeah, I'd hope it causes people on his side of the fence to take this shit a bit more seriously, although my hopes aren't particularly high.

Is it too much to ask to retire the politicization of this?    It's NOT JUST REPUBLICANS.   California.  Texas.   I get that we're talking about a Republican, who might have gotten this from a Republican-themed congregation, but that's but one example.   Generally, it's INCONSIDERATE AMERICANS of BOTH PARTIES.  Of NO PARTY.   I live in a VERY blue state, and we have our share of assholes and idiots that aren't interested in even minor concessions to the well-being of those around.    Each of the last three weekends I've gotten texts indicating that "public parks/beaches are closed due to capacity".   It's not just "Republicans" going to the beach.

You are absolutely right, people are being irresponsible over the entire political spectrum.

Buuut in this instance that man was literally at a political rally with one of the subjects being that the reaction to covid is some old bullshit. If he openly campaigns/talks like that, then yes, one would hope this would be a clear sign to people on his side of the fence (aka his followers) to take it seriously.

Also, as Shadow said, one party has repeatedly handwaved the entire issue. Over here, both the left and right do not do that. Hell, our current prime minister is right wing and he takes this crisis very seriously. The US seems to have entirely different dynamics.

Are you in the U.K.? I know Boris himself actually got the corona, and I kind of assumed that's where his current harder stance on the virus has come from. Is that accurate? That's really the kind of thing I'm hoping for here.

[Stadler]

Stadler my buddy, I would be thrilled for public safety to not be a political issue, but bizarrely it is. Sure, you can find assholes everywhere. I wouldn't dispute that, and I don't think anyone else would either. But in general, the people who are starkly anti-mask or 'you can't force me to not [insert thing here]' are on the Trump end of the spectrum, and they're following the lead of Trump and other higher-ups on the Republican side.

If you don't see any political component to people disregarding a virus that was also disregarded by the president and other top Republicans, I don't really know what to say.

I see the political component, I just don't think it's productive, IF the goal is to get more people to wear masks.  If the goal is to take political advantage of that disparity, then ignore me and move on.  The numbers are clear, and I'm not denying that.   I just see enough people that aren't wearing masks and yet wouldn't piss on Trump if he was on fire, and that to me makes this a human issue not a political one.  Perpetuating the political divide isn't going to solve, or even lessen, that human issue. 

[ErHaO]

Yeah, I'd hope it causes people on his side of the fence to take this shit a bit more seriously, although my hopes aren't particularly high.

Is it too much to ask to retire the politicization of this?    It's NOT JUST REPUBLICANS.   California.  Texas.   I get that we're talking about a Republican, who might have gotten this from a Republican-themed congregation, but that's but one example.   Generally, it's INCONSIDERATE AMERICANS of BOTH PARTIES.  Of NO PARTY.   I live in a VERY blue state, and we have our share of assholes and idiots that aren't interested in even minor concessions to the well-being of those around.    Each of the last three weekends I've gotten texts indicating that "public parks/beaches are closed due to capacity".   It's not just "Republicans" going to the beach.

You are absolutely right, people are being irresponsible over the entire political spectrum.

Buuut in this instance that man was literally at a political rally with one of the subjects being that the reaction to covid is some old bullshit. If he openly campaigns/talks like that, then yes, one would hope this would be a clear sign to people on his side of the fence (aka his followers) to take it seriously.

Also, as Shadow said, one party has repeatedly handwaved the entire issue. Over here, both the left and right do not do that. Hell, our current prime minister is right wing and he takes this crisis very seriously. The US seems to have entirely different dynamics.

Are you in the U.K.? I know Boris himself actually got the corona, and I kind of assumed that's where his current harder stance on the virus has come from. Is that accurate? That's really the kind of thing I'm hoping for here.

No, The Netherlands. Rutte is our prime minister. As far as I know, almost every party took this seriously (keep in mind we have a lot of different parties). Offcourse there are massive differences on how the parties feel we should react to the crisis.

[T-ski]

Had an electrician in the house to wire up the new man cave and do some other small things for us, he left to get a couple of things, got sick at the supplier and is now at the walk in.  He is literally the first person we’ve let in our house since March. Thankfully he was wearing a mask, but now the wife, the kid and I wait to see what happens.

[Grappler]

In my state, at least in my neck of the woods, the "Federal" guidelines aren't even a factor.  What Ned Lamont says, goes (he's our governor, and I don't mean that literally; I use him as a representative of the state government).   Generally speaking if there IS conflict, going with the more restrictive of the two is the prudent course of action IF the impetus is avoiding culpability.

I didn't vote for him; in fact, I actively voted against him, but I regret that now.  I don't agree with much of his politics, but he is the shining example of someone that rose to the occasion, put politics aside (almost completely; I have not heard him say even ONE THING that could be construed as "party politics", including not once EVER saying anything disparaging about the opposition party), and met the needs of ALL his people.   He's got my support from this point out, unequivocally.   

Illinois is handling things the same way - our governor has been fantastic over the last several months and has gone toe to toe with Trump.  He could give two shits what Trump thinks or says and does what he feels is best for our state.

From what I could gather, my county's health department's guidelines are what specifically sent our school board to vote for remote learning, but the idea is generally the same.  Schools are being so severely restricted that it's just impossible for them to operate without the risk of not being in compliance with some guideline, whether it's local, state or federal.  So rather than risk any liability, they're just voting to keep kids out of schools for now.

[The Walrus]

In my state, at least in my neck of the woods, the "Federal" guidelines aren't even a factor.  What Ned Lamont says, goes (he's our governor, and I don't mean that literally; I use him as a representative of the state government).   Generally speaking if there IS conflict, going with the more restrictive of the two is the prudent course of action IF the impetus is avoiding culpability.

I didn't vote for him; in fact, I actively voted against him, but I regret that now.  I don't agree with much of his politics, but he is the shining example of someone that rose to the occasion, put politics aside (almost completely; I have not heard him say even ONE THING that could be construed as "party politics", including not once EVER saying anything disparaging about the opposition party), and met the needs of ALL his people.   He's got my support from this point out, unequivocally.   

Illinois is handling things the same way - our governor has been fantastic over the last several months and has gone toe to toe with Trump.  He could give two shits what Trump thinks or says and does what he feels is best for our state.

From what I could gather, my county's health department's guidelines are what specifically sent our school board to vote for remote learning, but the idea is generally the same.  Schools are being so severely restricted that it's just impossible for them to operate without the risk of not being in compliance with some guideline, whether it's local, state or federal.  So rather than risk any liability, they're just voting to keep kids out of schools for now.

Yeah, but tell that to everybody downstate. Holy shit, you'd think he stood out front of the capitol building and ripped up a copy of the federal Constitution or something  It's absolutely insane how many people around here have completely stopped using masks, any form of social distancing, back to shaking hands etc. and not wearing masks even in grocery stores or gas stations, and how many think the virus ISN'T EVEN REAL!!

[Grappler]

Yeah, but tell that to everybody downstate. Holy shit, you'd think he stood out front of the capitol building and ripped up a copy of the federal Constitution or something  It's absolutely insane how many people around here have completely stopped using masks, any form of social distancing, back to shaking hands etc. and not wearing masks even in grocery stores or gas stations, and how many think the virus ISN'T EVEN REAL!!

I believe we're headed back to phase 3 with more of a lockdown.  It's inevitable.  Our county's positivity rate jumped to 7.1 percent.  We hit 8 and the county gets locked down - all because everyone opened back up in early July and people have been out partying, whether it's at bars or at parties at homes.  It sucks to be a family that's staying closer to home and sacrificing everything fun to stay safe and watching others fuck it up for us.  I'd be happy to see bars and restaurants close again, since adults can't seem to behave themselves and stay healthy.

We have the same conservative opinions of our governor up here too.  Not much anyone can do and I feel so sorry that he's trying to keep everyone healthy and gets vilified for it because of his political affiliation. 

If Trump could just unify this country instead of divide it even further, the entire nation could start controlling the virus instead of letting it control us.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

Stadler my buddy, I would be thrilled for public safety to not be a political issue, but bizarrely it is. Sure, you can find assholes everywhere. I wouldn't dispute that, and I don't think anyone else would either. But in general, the people who are starkly anti-mask or 'you can't force me to not [insert thing here]' are on the Trump end of the spectrum, and they're following the lead of Trump and other higher-ups on the Republican side.

If you don't see any political component to people disregarding a virus that was also disregarded by the president and other top Republicans, I don't really know what to say.

I see the political component, I just don't think it's productive, IF the goal is to get more people to wear masks.  If the goal is to take political advantage of that disparity, then ignore me and move on.  The numbers are clear, and I'm not denying that.   I just see enough people that aren't wearing masks and yet wouldn't piss on Trump if he was on fire, and that to me makes this a human issue not a political one.  Perpetuating the political divide isn't going to solve, or even lessen, that human issue.

I mean, I guess that the 'goal,' to the extent that there is one, is just for me to express frustration at people (primarily of one political alignment) who are actively opposed to any safety measures because I'm The Invisible Man and all I can do is sit at home and watch as more people die helplessly. (There, I put in a Marillion reference, don't say I never did anything for you)

And moreover, I think ignoring the political connection is counterproductive. Trump could have said, as soon as the coronavirus showed up, 'Oh shit, this could be bad, everyone be safe and listen to medical professionals,' and then just shut the fuck up instead of downplaying it, holding rallies against recommendations, spouting off whatever fucking thing came into his head because he knows better than the doctors. But he didn't. He doesn't get to escape culpability for that, and neither do the top Republicans who follow his lead. 

And I know you don't mean it this way, but 'It's a HUMAN problem' has the same kind of smell to it as the 'all lives matter' thing. Yes, there are people everywhere who are acting stupidly. My focus is on a particular group (same political alignment) that goes beyond just being apathetic towards most proposed public safety measures for the virus and actively oppose them. That's why, although I bore Herman Cain no ill will, I hoped that his death would be a wake-up call for people (again, of one political alignment) who have been in opposition to any measures to reduce spread of the virus. Maybe they'll say 'Oh, this guy on my side who was against masks got the virus and died, maybe I should reevaluate my stance.'

But anyway this is overly P&Ry now, so I'll shut up.

[Dublagent66]

Yeah, but tell that to everybody downstate. Holy shit, you'd think he stood out front of the capitol building and ripped up a copy of the federal Constitution or something  It's absolutely insane how many people around here have completely stopped using masks, any form of social distancing, back to shaking hands etc. and not wearing masks even in grocery stores or gas stations, and how many think the virus ISN'T EVEN REAL!!

I believe we're headed back to phase 3 with more of a lockdown.  It's inevitable.  Our county's positivity rate jumped to 7.1 percent.  We hit 8 and the county gets locked down - all because everyone opened back up in early July and people have been out partying, whether it's at bars or at parties at homes.  It sucks to be a family that's staying closer to home and sacrificing everything fun to stay safe and watching others fuck it up for us.  I'd be happy to see bars and restaurants close again, since adults can't seem to behave themselves and stay healthy.

We have the same conservative opinions of our governor up here too.  Not much anyone can do and I feel so sorry that he's trying to keep everyone healthy and gets vilified for it because of his political affiliation. 

If Trump could just unify this country instead of divide it even further, the entire nation could start controlling the virus instead of letting it control us.

I think most of what you said is true from a standpoint of individuals not doing their part to stay safe and healthy, but I don't see any reason to politicize it.  That's what the media is doing and that's what's causing the division.  You mentioned that your governor doesn't deserve to be vilified.  I agree and the current administration doesn't deserve it either.  Controlling the spread of the virus ultimately depends on the choices of individuals.

[Grappler]

Yeah, but tell that to everybody downstate. Holy shit, you'd think he stood out front of the capitol building and ripped up a copy of the federal Constitution or something  It's absolutely insane how many people around here have completely stopped using masks, any form of social distancing, back to shaking hands etc. and not wearing masks even in grocery stores or gas stations, and how many think the virus ISN'T EVEN REAL!!

I believe we're headed back to phase 3 with more of a lockdown.  It's inevitable.  Our county's positivity rate jumped to 7.1 percent.  We hit 8 and the county gets locked down - all because everyone opened back up in early July and people have been out partying, whether it's at bars or at parties at homes.  It sucks to be a family that's staying closer to home and sacrificing everything fun to stay safe and watching others fuck it up for us.  I'd be happy to see bars and restaurants close again, since adults can't seem to behave themselves and stay healthy.

We have the same conservative opinions of our governor up here too.  Not much anyone can do and I feel so sorry that he's trying to keep everyone healthy and gets vilified for it because of his political affiliation. 

If Trump could just unify this country instead of divide it even further, the entire nation could start controlling the virus instead of letting it control us.

I think most of what you said is true from a standpoint of individuals not doing their part to stay safe and healthy, but I don't see any reason to politicize it.  That's what the media is doing and that's what's causing the division.  You mentioned that your governor doesn't deserve to be vilified.  I agree and the current administration doesn't deserve it either.  Controlling the spread of the virus ultimately depends on the choices of individuals.

Criticizing Trump's administration's response to the pandemic is not politicizing the virus.  They deserve to be called out. 

Quite frankly, the political divide regarding the virus was directly caused by Trump himself once states started shutting down.  Illinois asked him for help with providing additional ventilators early on.  Trump said no, yet then handed plenty of ventilators to states with Republican governors.  He himself turned this into a political issue by helping states that would support him in an election and turning his back toward others.  He refused to open the national store of PPE to distribute to states early on.  He has constantly tweeted and spoke so much misinformation that it made people doubt the truth or believe inaccuracies.  He has criticized his own experts that dared to disagree with his own opinions.  Our President should be uniting the country.  Not making things worse.

It's not the media, it's not the state governors.  It's Trump continuing to rail against state restrictions, closed economies and the usage of masks.  If we had a unified response from all levels of government up front, we'd probably be close to keeping the virus at bay. 

[Stadler]

In my state, at least in my neck of the woods, the "Federal" guidelines aren't even a factor.  What Ned Lamont says, goes (he's our governor, and I don't mean that literally; I use him as a representative of the state government).   Generally speaking if there IS conflict, going with the more restrictive of the two is the prudent course of action IF the impetus is avoiding culpability.

I didn't vote for him; in fact, I actively voted against him, but I regret that now.  I don't agree with much of his politics, but he is the shining example of someone that rose to the occasion, put politics aside (almost completely; I have not heard him say even ONE THING that could be construed as "party politics", including not once EVER saying anything disparaging about the opposition party), and met the needs of ALL his people.   He's got my support from this point out, unequivocally.   

Illinois is handling things the same way - our governor has been fantastic over the last several months and has gone toe to toe with Trump.  He could give two shits what Trump thinks or says and does what he feels is best for our state.

From what I could gather, my county's health department's guidelines are what specifically sent our school board to vote for remote learning, but the idea is generally the same.  Schools are being so severely restricted that it's just impossible for them to operate without the risk of not being in compliance with some guideline, whether it's local, state or federal.  So rather than risk any liability, they're just voting to keep kids out of schools for now.

I appreciate what you wrote, but I add this for clarity, in the context of what we were discussing above:  my governor did all that WITHOUT going toe to toe with Trump.  He has not engaged in the ideological battle with Trump.   For all I know he mother-fucks him in the Governor's Mansion, but at the podium?  He is fair, and even, and inclusive.  He even made a comment a week or so ago about the vaccines, and when asked about the roll out even made a comment to the effect of "we will look at as many facets of the roll out as we can, including hearing from those that can't or won't participate in vaccinations for any reason".   Not a direct quote, it wasn't quite that explicit, but rather than bully or shame or call people stupid, he's bending over backwards to make sure all 3,563,080 people in our state are heard.   That's real inclusiveness, and the science I've seen* indicates that's the best road to getting cooperation and reducing behavioral outliers.  We shouldn't pick and choose inclusiveness; we shouldn't limit it to just the people we agree with, ideologically, morally, or spiritually.   Ostracizing a Trump fan is no different than ostracizing a more favored special interest group FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE EXCLUDED PERSON. 


* https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-darkness/201801/the-psychology-racism
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201012/in-groups-out-groups-and-the-psychology-crowds
(There's another article I'm struggling to find that equates the idea of 'inclusiveness' to reducing the impact of 'out-groups'.)

[The Walrus]

My governor could beat up your governor.

[hunnus2000]

Yeah, but tell that to everybody downstate. Holy shit, you'd think he stood out front of the capitol building and ripped up a copy of the federal Constitution or something  It's absolutely insane how many people around here have completely stopped using masks, any form of social distancing, back to shaking hands etc. and not wearing masks even in grocery stores or gas stations, and how many think the virus ISN'T EVEN REAL!!

I believe we're headed back to phase 3 with more of a lockdown.  It's inevitable.  Our county's positivity rate jumped to 7.1 percent.  We hit 8 and the county gets locked down - all because everyone opened back up in early July and people have been out partying, whether it's at bars or at parties at homes.  It sucks to be a family that's staying closer to home and sacrificing everything fun to stay safe and watching others fuck it up for us.  I'd be happy to see bars and restaurants close again, since adults can't seem to behave themselves and stay healthy.

We have the same conservative opinions of our governor up here too.  Not much anyone can do and I feel so sorry that he's trying to keep everyone healthy and gets vilified for it because of his political affiliation. 

If Trump could just unify this country instead of divide it even further, the entire nation could start controlling the virus instead of letting it control us.

I think most of what you said is true from a standpoint of individuals not doing their part to stay safe and healthy, but I don't see any reason to politicize it.  That's what the media is doing and that's what's causing the division.  You mentioned that your governor doesn't deserve to be vilified.  I agree and the current administration doesn't deserve it either.  Controlling the spread of the virus ultimately depends on the choices of individuals.

Criticizing Trump's administration's response to the pandemic is not politicizing the virus.  They deserve to be called out. 

Quite frankly, the political divide regarding the virus was directly caused by Trump himself once states started shutting down.  Illinois asked him for help with providing additional ventilators early on.  Trump said no, yet then handed plenty of ventilators to states with Republican governors.  He himself turned this into a political issue by helping states that would support him in an election and turning his back toward others.  He refused to open the national store of PPE to distribute to states early on.  He has constantly tweeted and spoke so much misinformation that it made people doubt the truth or believe inaccuracies.  He has criticized his own experts that dared to disagree with his own opinions.  Our President should be uniting the country.  Not making things worse.

It's not the media, it's not the state governors.  It's Trump continuing to rail against state restrictions, closed economies and the usage of masks.  If we had a unified response from all levels of government up front, we'd probably be close to keeping the virus at bay.

^^^^

This is what you call "keeping it real".

I will add the the party of "personal responsibility" has been everything but......

[Grappler]

Ostracizing a Trump fan is no different than ostracizing a more favored special interest group FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE EXCLUDED PERSON. 

Has Trump specifically called out your governor or state?  He is relentless on his attacks to our governor (JB Pritzker) and Chicago and its mayor (Lori Lightfoot).  He loves to pick on Illinois and Chicago (violence) so it's nice to see our state and city leaders stand up to him and fire back. 

I get the sentiment that the political fighting between those politicians furthers the divide between their supporters and citizens, and the idea that ignoring a bully is a good tactic, but it's nice to see our local leaders stand up to that big bully as well.

[cramx3]

My governor could beat up your governor.

Probably, mine looks like he couldn't beat up anyone 

[The Walrus]

 

I think this hand sanitizer I bought was made at a tequila distillery. Holy crap, I'm going to vomit if I smell this again.

[ProfessorPeart]

Another Illinois person here. I also support how Prtizker has handled this. He is 100% science with his decisions (the way it should be). Of course, I don't dare say that out loud where I live based on all of the 'Pritzker Sucks' yard signs I see everywhere. The man isn't even running for office and the political machine is going full force. There are even attack ads on TV against him. Again, he is not even up for election this year.

I also see people all over with no masks and clerks not wearing masks. It's all a hoax.

Our school district offered a choice, go to school 5 days a week or do e-learning. For e-learning to be supported at least 25% of the student body has to opt for that. If you choose to go to school you have to have your parent go online every morning and certify that the child has no symptoms. Then the child has to have their temp taken before they enter the building. While in the building a mask has to be worn at all times. Plus other rules and regulations.

They fully admit that they see a time where they will have to resort to 100% e-learning when something goes wrong. My son cratered with e-learning last year. He is autistic, but we gave him the choice. We fully expected him to choose in school learning but he choose e-learning. He's scared of getting sick.

Going to be an interesting Fall.

[jingle.boy]

Protip.  If you're not comfortable sending your child to what is (even pre-COVID) a FUCKING CESSPOOL OF GERMS, just say they HAVE symptoms every single morning.

[The Walrus]

Protip.  If you're not comfortable sending your child to what is (even pre-COVID) a FUCKING CESSPOOL OF GERMS, just say they HAVE symptoms every single morning.

What if the parents have to work and can't find a place for their kid to go if they're not old enough to be left alone?

[jingle.boy]

Protip.  If you're not comfortable sending your child to what is (even pre-COVID) a FUCKING CESSPOOL OF GERMS, just say they HAVE symptoms every single morning.

What if the parents have to work and can't find a place for their kid to go if they're not old enough to be left alone?

The I guess they can kick that can down the road until such time that they do get sick, or the school's do have to shut down to some extent.  Look for all the effort that MLB went to to try and contain and prevent an outbreak, it didn't even take one week for the virus to get a hold of the league.  You think thousands.... nay.... millions of students are going to dodge that bullet?  I hope to God I'm wrong (which I'm sure you could find me saying a few times on the first 10 pages of this thread), but I see no way that the virus isn't going to run rampant in schools.

[The Walrus]

Protip.  If you're not comfortable sending your child to what is (even pre-COVID) a FUCKING CESSPOOL OF GERMS, just say they HAVE symptoms every single morning.

What if the parents have to work and can't find a place for their kid to go if they're not old enough to be left alone?

The I guess they can kick that can down the road until such time that they do get sick, or the school's do have to shut down to some extent.  Look for all the effort that MLB went to to try and contain and prevent an outbreak, it didn't even take one week for the virus to get a hold of the league.  You think thousands.... nay.... millions of students are going to dodge that bullet?  I hope to God I'm wrong (which I'm sure you could find me saying a few times on the first 10 pages of this thread), but I see no way that the virus isn't going to run rampant in schools.

Brudda, I'm on your side here. I just think there's no way of avoiding the virus at this point, but you can't keep kids out of school forever.