DREAM THEATER ANNOUNCE THE RETURN OF DRUMMER MIKE PORTNOY

[The Curious Orange]

I hope we get the more melodic side of the band back - the last few albums have been ruined by this "everything louder than everything else" vibe they've been going for. Not saying there isn't room for the heavy stuff, but the contrast was always part of what made DT special.

[jammindude]

I have yet to have heard anything from any Wilson-related project that didn't immediately put me to sleep.  Or induce vomiting.  Or induce vomiting while asleep.

You might want to get tested for COVID. I hear one of the major symptoms is a lack of taste.

 

[jammindude]

I hope we get the more melodic side of the band back - the last few albums have been ruined by this "everything louder than everything else" vibe they've been going for. Not saying there isn't room for the heavy stuff, but the contrast was always part of what made DT special.

This right here.

This is what made Images and Words so special to me on my very first listen. The fact that they could go from a Metallica opening track to almost Kenny G on the very next song was the very first thing that drew them to me.

That’s also the reason why I think Octavarium is their greatest album. I love the fact that you get some really heavy tracks, mixed in with things like TALW and IWBY.

I want to see the two extremes of Dream Theater represented.

[MirrorMask]

I hope we get the more melodic side of the band back - the last few albums have been ruined by this "everything louder than everything else" vibe they've been going for. Not saying there isn't room for the heavy stuff, but the contrast was always part of what made DT special.

This right here.

This is what made Images and Words so special to me on my very first listen. The fact that they could go from a Metallica opening track to almost Kenny G on the very next song was the very first thing that drew them to me.

That’s also the reason why I think Octavarium is their greatest album. I love the fact that you get some really heavy tracks, mixed in with things like TALW and IWBY.

I want to see the two extremes of Dream Theater represented.

Amen! we had two albums in a row made up mostly of just super heavy songs, it's time for more variety again.

[El Barto]

why doesn't MP like DTF? curious minds would like to know

He didn't even like his own forum. 

I'm a huge MP fan, but the truth is he's simply terrible at handling criticism, no matter how constructive it is. There's not much ground between fanboy and hater in his world.

[Zydar]

I hope we get the more melodic side of the band back - the last few albums have been ruined by this "everything louder than everything else" vibe they've been going for. Not saying there isn't room for the heavy stuff, but the contrast was always part of what made DT special.

This right here.

This is what made Images and Words so special to me on my very first listen. The fact that they could go from a Metallica opening track to almost Kenny G on the very next song was the very first thing that drew them to me.

That’s also the reason why I think Octavarium is their greatest album. I love the fact that you get some really heavy tracks, mixed in with things like TALW and IWBY.

I want to see the two extremes of Dream Theater represented.

Amen! we had two albums in a row made up mostly of just super heavy songs, it's time for more variety again.

I agree, let's have more melodic music and ease up on the metal for a while.

Although I said that after DT12, and then we got the more melodic TA - an album I don't really care for. So I don't know what I want at this point

[cramx3]

MP personally told me I need to defend him here  (not joking, when I met him at ProgPower with SOA, I mentioned that I'm a member of the forum to him and that was his response)

I think there's been instances he wasn't treated kindly here, but for the most part, it's fair criticism here.  I've got no issue calling out someone who's plain old bashing and it does happen time to time (we've seen it in this thread).

[Stadler]

I must be the only person here who likes MP's vocals. Unless we're talking about whatever growly thing he did on SC or whenever that was. I don't care for that. But I do enjoy his backing vocals in DT, and if they wanted to give him a lead where he actually sings I'd be fine with that too.

Nope; I think he's really come into his own singing-wise. I LIKE his singing.  I think it's the perfect complement - when done right - with James.   

[TheHoveringSojourn808]

I must be the only person here who likes MP's vocals. Unless we're talking about whatever growly thing he did on SC or whenever that was. I don't care for that. But I do enjoy his backing vocals in DT, and if they wanted to give him a lead where he actually sings I'd be fine with that too.

Nope; I think he's really come into his own singing-wise. I LIKE his singing.  I think it's the perfect complement - when done right - with James.   

the bonus disc of one of the Transatlantic albums has him doing lead vocals on a cover of Salty Dog (an old Procul Harum number) and it's honestly not bad. i agree that he's come into his own vocally

[El Barto]

Re MP's vocals, I get that some people might not like them. Personally, I'd rather hear him sing than JLB, but to each their own. However, he fits into the same category as Newstead and Michael Anthony. Their departures hurt the live show in ways far beyond their actual playing. DT has been a particularly boring live band since he left, and I put the bulk of it on them having to pipe in the backing vocals. Everybody's heard me say it a thousand times, but going to a click just killed them as a live band. That's the thing that most needs to change now that he's back in. If they persist in playing identical shows night after night his return won't really mean much to me.

Also, thus far the best part of this has been seeing old posters come out of the woodwork.

[KevShmev]

I must be the only person here who likes MP's vocals. Unless we're talking about whatever growly thing he did on SC or whenever that was. I don't care for that. But I do enjoy his backing vocals in DT, and if they wanted to give him a lead where he actually sings I'd be fine with that too.

Where MP sits back and actually behaves like a backing vocalist I think he's fine. Perfectly decent singer.

There's historically been two problems though.

The first is MP sings like he's in Def Leppard when it comes to the end of phrases. Little-to-no vibrato and some combination of curtailing or dropping off instead of going into the nice wide vibrato LaBrie utilises, which is much more appropriate for the kind of music DT delivers.

The second is a bit of frontman-itis where instead of filling out the sound and adding in the notes that'd otherwise be missing MP'd sometimes sound like he was trying to sing over LaBrie. That extended as far as MP singing lead by himself on TTT live... Whatever struggles LaBrie might be having in recent years the fact is that at his best all 5 of them were masters of their craft, so MP's pleasant, but not at all world class, light-baritone getting featured (live and in studio) wasn't something I appreciated.

Agreed with the last paragraph. 

For me, Portnoy's vocals are fine when doing harmonies or the very occasional lead, but when he tries to overdo it is when it becomes too much, like trying to sing over James in the first verse of Homes on Live Scenes or whatever the hell that was near the end of the medley on the SC tour.  As much as I love the acoustic version of Cover My Eyes from 5 Years in a Livetime, the last line is a bit jarring, as Portnoy totally sings too loud and overpowers JLB's voice.  He does fine as a supporting vocalist, as long as he sings in the supporting role, not in a "I want to overshadow the lead vocalist" way.

[gzarruk]

why doesn't MP like DTF? curious minds would like to know

He didn't even like his own forum. 

I'm a huge MP fan, but the truth is he's simply terrible at handling criticism, no matter how constructive it is. There's not much ground between fanboy and hater in his world.

This is from a few years ago, obviously, but some of his comments online back then made it seem like he expects his fans to automatically love and adore every single thing he puts out, and that's not always going to be the case.

Again, this was years ago, I'm in no way trying to say this is his current attitude. What I'm sure, though, is that being the kind of guy he is (someone who wears his heart on his sleeve), he doesn't have as thick skin as some people online might think he has. Criticism hurts, and that's the same for all of us.

[Madman Shepherd]

I truly did not care at all for his contributions to A Nightmare to Remember (and I’m especially glad that John reigned him in or it would have been even worse)

However, I quite enjoy all his other vocal contributions in the DT catalog.

I didn't know about that. What's the story about Portnoy's vocals on that song? I'm not a big fan of the way they turned out but I don't think it ruins the song or anything. I didn't miss it when they left that part out when they played it live a few years ago.

There’s literally a video of it somewhere in the “making of” videos. Mike wanted to go full on Opeth style death metal guttural in that section. John literally said something to the effect of, “we’re NOT doing THAT.”

I’m sure someone can find the clip. I’ve got a drink in hand, wife beside me, and Star Trek on the big screen.

Here you go: https://youtu.be/Puh7V8DKArk?si=Ox-6BXQMEbzKZr2R

Wow even better, with scrsenshot replies from his forum! Thanks for that!

Yeah...it might've sounded better with Akerfeldt who had a great growl back in the day but I think it was for the best that they decided not do put any Death Metal vocals in there.

I remember this being SOOOOO controversial on Portnoys forum and thinking, is it really that big of a deal? Maybe it's because I come from more of a metal background but peoples' over the top reaction I found ridiculous.

That said, hearing DT do that post MP with James handling the vocals made me realize that MP was actually a detriment to that song. Not a huge one but it is definitely better without those vocals. I used to also defend his backing vocals but now realize  he needed to tone that down too. For instance the ADTOE and DT12 tours where James was performing really well benefited from not having much backing vocals and him taking the lead. I was glad there was no MP during those times. Even SC, one of my favorite DT albums benefited from just James singing something like Constant Motion. I didn't think it would but it did.

It's funny because since 60 year old JLB can't do the vocals he once could, maybe more help vocally is appropriate now. Maybe though. I'm still leaning towards less MP vocals.

[wolven74]

I’ve had a couple days to sit with the news, and I’ve come to think that this is what the boys in the band always wanted. In the audition documentary it was stated that MP leaving, having to find a new drummer, was not what anyone wanted. MM states that he wasn’t what MP was in the band, admitting that he didn’t think he ever could be.

It’s also been said the MP just wanted a hiatus, which indicates that he always intended to come back. So, to me this says that MM was the replacement for as long as MP needed to sew his wild oats. And while I think almost 14 years is a bit too long away, MP was always in contact with the band. They were always family to him. I think in his heart — and the band’s — this was always what they wanted.

I feel bad for MM because of course he wouldn’t want to leave his biggest band, but the timing of his releasing his solo album tells me that MP returning has been known to him for some time at least. I’m sad to see him go, but it’s obvious that it wasn’t a complete surprise to him.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I personally would welcome both JP and MP live vocals. Are they they greatest singers of all-time? No. Does it make the show feel more live and add a new dimension? I think so.

[Peter Mc]

I felt on the last tour that there were actually some live backing vocals from JP and it made a big difference to me having the different voice’s harmonising even if JP is not a strong vocalist.  I’d welcome hearing MP’s backing vocals again.  I also don’t mind his vocals in some of the call and response stuff with James on a song like Constant Motion, it’s not my favourite song in the world but those sections worked pretty well.

On the flipside though, I don’t want him singing whole songs or anything where he is carrying the melody of the song as he is not a strong enough melodic singer.  Backing vocals and rappy/shouty aggressive stuff he’s ok at.  Lead melodic vocals, not so much.

[Peter Mc]

Speaking of concept albums, did I dream that someone, sometime said that had MP stayed in the band, after Black Clouds they would have considered the idea of a concept album? let's look waaaaaaay in advance, after a "classic, DT is back" album it's not unreasonable that for the second album after his comeback MP would suggest a concept, assuming the other guys are not scarred by the mixed reception of The Astonishing and refuse to do another concept album again.

This is from my interview with Mike back in the day:

Portnoy: Well, I wasn't planning on leaving. [laughs] I thought there will be further tours to work with. [laughs] You know, actually it was always my intention all along for the next tour. Actually, to be honest, before I left the band, me and John Petrucci were already discussing that the next record was gonna be a concept album. And I already had the setlist written for the next tour. It was gonna be "An Evening With", and the first set would be the full concept album, the second set would have been the "12 Steps Suite". I already had the setlist planned, but obviously, you know, best laid plans… You never know what's gonna happen. But that was always my intention if things didn't end up happening the way they happened, so… Obviously, everything changed.

He seemed to say so much contradictory stuff back then.  If he wanted to go on an indefinite hiatus, why would he have been planning setlists for the next tour or discussing the next album?  I don’t believe a lot of what he said at that time.

[Lethean]

I hope we get the more melodic side of the band back - the last few albums have been ruined by this "everything louder than everything else" vibe they've been going for. Not saying there isn't room for the heavy stuff, but the contrast was always part of what made DT special.

Amen! we had two albums in a row made up mostly of just super heavy songs, it's time for more variety again.

I don't know that I agree that the last two albums were super heavy and non-melodic.  Especially Distance Over Time; super heavy would really never have been a descriptor that I'd use for that album.  And both albums are melodic.  Unless melodic is just being used as "not metal?"  But metal can be, and usually is I think, quite melodic.

[Madman Shepherd]

I felt on the last tour that there were actually some live backing vocals from JP and it made a big difference to me having the different voice’s harmonising even if JP is not a strong vocalist.  I’d welcome hearing MP’s backing vocals again.  I also don’t mind his vocals in some of the call and response stuff with James on a song like Constant Motion, it’s not my favourite song in the world but those sections worked pretty well.

On the flipside though, I don’t want him singing whole songs or anything where he is carrying the melody of the song as he is not a strong enough melodic singer.  Backing vocals and rappy/shouty aggressive stuff he’s ok at.  Lead melodic vocals, not so much.

JP is an amazing backing vocalist in my view. I love what he does on The Silent man and many others. Just a good, solid, no frills kinda style.

[Dr. SeaWolf]

On the flipside though, I don’t want him singing whole songs or anything where he is carrying the melody of the song as he is not a strong enough melodic singer.  Backing vocals and rappy/shouty aggressive stuff he’s ok at.  Lead melodic vocals, not so much.

I don’t know if I agree with this. Some of his lead vocals with Flying Colors are actually pretty good. Nothing spectacular, but he carries the songs just fine since they were written for his voice.

[cramx3]

I hope we get the more melodic side of the band back - the last few albums have been ruined by this "everything louder than everything else" vibe they've been going for. Not saying there isn't room for the heavy stuff, but the contrast was always part of what made DT special.

Amen! we had two albums in a row made up mostly of just super heavy songs, it's time for more variety again.

I don't know that I agree that the last two albums were super heavy and non-melodic.  Especially Distance Over Time; super heavy would really never have been a descriptor that I'd use for that album.  And both albums are melodic.  Unless melodic is just being used as "not metal?"  But metal can be, and usually is I think, quite melodic.

I thought there was definitely melody on the last two albums, but I do think they leaned more on the heavy style of DT.

[HOF]

On the flipside though, I don’t want him singing whole songs or anything where he is carrying the melody of the song as he is not a strong enough melodic singer.  Backing vocals and rappy/shouty aggressive stuff he’s ok at.  Lead melodic vocals, not so much.

I don’t know if I agree with this. Some of his lead vocals with Flying Colors are actually pretty good. Nothing spectacular, but he carries the songs just fine since they were written for his voice.

Yeah, as long as the parts are appropriately structured to suit his voice he does a nice job. It's a unique color that I enjoy. I probably wouldn't want to hear a whole album of him as vocalist (not a whole DT album at least, maybe a solo album), but as an accent color I enjoy him.

[Dedalus]

Oh dear Lord!


I actually wouldn't mind a new concept album at all, like in that interview Kyo posted. TA was a completely different beast, so I don't think the band needs to worry too much about fan reception if they make "just" a concept album in the vein of SFAM.

They don't need to worry. With Mike Portnoy back, negative reactions will be a minority, they can even record Trap. 

[deggs37]

Re MP's vocals, I get that some people might not like them. Personally, I'd rather hear him sing than JLB, but to each their own. However, he fits into the same category as Newstead and Michael Anthony. Their departures hurt the live show in ways far beyond their actual playing. DT has been a particularly boring live band since he left, and I put the bulk of it on them having to pipe in the backing vocals. Everybody's heard me say it a thousand times, but going to a click just killed them as a live band. That's the thing that most needs to change now that he's back in. If they persist in playing identical shows night after night his return won't really mean much to me.

Also, thus far the best part of this has been seeing old posters come out of the woodwork.

I’m gonna have to agree. They need to ditch the click. I saw DT each consecutive time they came through in 2008, 2010 (one of the last shows with MP), and again in 2012. And the before and after MP was a drastic change. Yeah, visually it looked very cool in 2012. But it pales in comparison to the energy in the room from 2008 and 2010. In 2010 the energy was through the roof and even MP commented on it. The band was on fire and the energy from the room elevated them. You could tell they were loving it. We were loving it. I wish I could relive that.

But then in 2012 the room felt dead. It was shocking, honestly. I remember feeling very bored and checking my watch like I was ready to go before it was over. I honestly felt very sad because that 2010 show was one of the most fun times I had at any show. Please ditch the click. Bring back MP and JP backing vocals.

[hefdaddy42]

This is what MP originally wanted, that's his original take.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTn4U-0kT4I&ab_channel=SkiFiX

I remember him releasing these on his forum back in the day and I think the feedback on his forum was not very receptive. I recall him mentioning along the lines of even though he had a thick skin, he's still human and gets hurt at the negativity. I could be wrong but I defnitely remember him being surprised at the negativity.

That bolded part made me literally laugh out loud.

MP has a lot of great qualities, but being thick-skinned is definitely not one of them.

[cramx3]

Re MP's vocals, I get that some people might not like them. Personally, I'd rather hear him sing than JLB, but to each their own. However, he fits into the same category as Newstead and Michael Anthony. Their departures hurt the live show in ways far beyond their actual playing. DT has been a particularly boring live band since he left, and I put the bulk of it on them having to pipe in the backing vocals. Everybody's heard me say it a thousand times, but going to a click just killed them as a live band. That's the thing that most needs to change now that he's back in. If they persist in playing identical shows night after night his return won't really mean much to me.

Also, thus far the best part of this has been seeing old posters come out of the woodwork.

I’m gonna have to agree. They need to ditch the click. I saw DT each consecutive time they came through in 2008, 2010 (one of the last shows with MP), and again in 2012. And the before and after MP was a drastic change. Yeah, visually it looked very cool in 2012. But it pales in comparison to the energy in the room from 2008 and 2010. In 2010 the energy was through the roof and even MP commented on it. The band was on fire and the energy from the room elevated them. You could tell they were loving it. We were loving it. I wish I could relive that.

But then in 2012 the room felt dead. It was shocking, honestly. I remember feeling very bored and checking my watch like I was ready to go before it was over. I honestly felt very sad because that 2010 show was one of the most fun times I had at any show. Please ditch the click. Bring back MP and JP backing vocals.

Also a +1 to all of this

[Herrick]

I truly did not care at all for his contributions to A Nightmare to Remember (and I’m especially glad that John reigned him in or it would have been even worse)

However, I quite enjoy all his other vocal contributions in the DT catalog.

I didn't know about that. What's the story about Portnoy's vocals on that song? I'm not a big fan of the way they turned out but I don't think it ruins the song or anything. I didn't miss it when they left that part out when they played it live a few years ago.

There’s literally a video of it somewhere in the “making of” videos. Mike wanted to go full on Opeth style death metal guttural in that section. John literally said something to the effect of, “we’re NOT doing THAT.”

I’m sure someone can find the clip. I’ve got a drink in hand, wife beside me, and Star Trek on the big screen.

Here you go: https://youtu.be/Puh7V8DKArk?si=Ox-6BXQMEbzKZr2R

Wow even better, with scrsenshot replies from his forum! Thanks for that!

Yeah...it might've sounded better with Akerfeldt who had a great growl back in the day but I think it was for the best that they decided not do put any Death Metal vocals in there.

I remember this being SOOOOO controversial on Portnoys forum and thinking, is it really that big of a deal? Maybe it's because I come from more of a metal background but peoples' over the top reaction I found ridiculous.

I was listening to Death Metal before I got into Dream Theater and I still thought that one vocal section on A Nightmare to Remember was a little weird. Not "song-breaking" weird though.

[HOF]

I remember when MP dropped those clips on his forum, and yeah, none of them suit my tastes, LOL.

[Dellers]

I hope we get the more melodic side of the band back - the last few albums have been ruined by this "everything louder than everything else" vibe they've been going for. Not saying there isn't room for the heavy stuff, but the contrast was always part of what made DT special.

TIL that melodic means something else in English than what I'm used to. With my understanding of the Norwegian version of the word I couldn't understand what possibly wasn't melodic about these albums. I guess the Norwegian version of mellow is closer to what you guys are talking about, based on my googling. Funny how words can have slightly different meanings even if they have the same origin.

[Mr.Mister]

Lot's of thoughts on this - will get to them later this weekend. But one thing I cannot wait to see is the 12-Steps Suite played in the next tour.

[TAC]

Lot's of thoughts on this - will get to them later this weekend. But one thing I cannot wait to see if the 12-Steps Suite played in the next tour.

I can't see it being played on the next album tour, but if they do some shows before the album as a welcome back kind of mini tour of some sort, then possibly.

[Mr.Mister]

Lot's of thoughts on this - will get to them later this weekend. But one thing I cannot wait to see is the 12-Steps Suite played in the next tour.

I can't see it being played on the next album tour, but if they do some shows before the album as a welcome back kind of mini tour of some sort, then possibly.

If they do an Evening with format they sure could. They played SFAM a couple of years ago along with D/T. 

[TAC]

Lot's of thoughts on this - will get to them later this weekend. But one thing I cannot wait to see is the 12-Steps Suite played in the next tour.

I can't see it being played on the next album tour, but if they do some shows before the album as a welcome back kind of mini tour of some sort, then possibly.

If they do an Evening with format they sure could. They played SFAM a couple of years ago along with D/T.

Yes..I hadn't honestly considered An Evening With..tour. That'd be cool.
Octavarium as the encore?

[blackmetal666]

I wish they would strip back the over-production on the sound.
It’s brick wall mastering to the max with the modern DT.

Strip back the sound and music so there’s more space between the instruments.
And room for the vocals to move and thrive. 

Production sound in the vein of  Scenes from a Memory or Failing Into Infinity or Awake would be great.
And let’s get away from the “heavy metal” sound.  Enough of that already.
Let’s make a prog rock album like Scenes.
No more cookie cutter prog metal please.

[El Barto]

The Nightmare discussion always amused me because everybody makes such a big deal out of MP's vocals, while overlooking that the song as a whole isn't particularly good, and wouldn't have been no matter how they did that passage. At the same time, the middle Beautiful Agony section is truly wonderful. Portnoy also lays down some great drum work. There's a whole lot more to take away from the song than a 20 second vocal passage, yet that seems to be most people's main takeaway.