Star Trek: The Next Threaderation

[rumborak]

I see LeVar was going for the All Good Things look, what with his eyes...

[El Barto]

Damn, Michael Dorn is aging terribly.

[Kotowboy]

Watching The Nostalgia Critic's 10 movies he loves that everyone hates.

He likes Star Trek Nemesis and hates Insurrection the most - which I am totally on board with.

But then he says Matrix Reloaded is *better* than the first one...

  In what universe ?!

I watched all three back-to-back recently and the first one is a brilliant self-contained story and the 2nd one adds absolutely nothing to the plot.

You could start the third one after the first one with a couple of scenes from the second as exposition and you'd be fine.

[rumborak]

Damn, Michael Dorn is aging terribly.

And .. you can tell that by the edge of his cheek?

[rumborak]

He likes Star Trek Nemesis and hates Insurrection the most - which I am totally on board with.

Insurrection is essentially an expensive TNG episode. I take it you're not a big fan of TNG?

[Kotowboy]

Love TNG. The movies are mostly poor. I like the two that everyone hates.

Namely Gen & Nem.

Insurrection gets my vote for worst trek movie ever.

[BlobVanDam]

Damn, Michael Dorn is aging terribly.

And .. you can tell that by the edge of his cheek?

Maybe he's referring to the fact he magically got older, fatter and whiter.

Watching The Nostalgia Critic's 10 movies he loves that everyone hates.

He likes Star Trek Nemesis and hates Insurrection the most - which I am totally on board with.

But then he says Matrix Reloaded is *better* than the first one...

  In what universe ?!

So basically he's just full of wrong opinions then.

[Kotowboy]

I do think Nemesis is better than Insurrection. I know someone on this board who has the poplar opposite opinion...

But the last time I watched Nemesis - I really enjoyed it. It's not THAT bad...

Insurrection however is almost unwatchable for me.

And yeah - Matrix 1 is clearly, CLEARLY the best of the trilogy whilst 2 is 2 hours of filler.

There is not one thing in Reloaded that pays off in Revolutions.


Matrix > Revolutions  > > > Reloaded.


I'd quite like to one day cut together a version of reloaded/revolutions/extra stuff from Animatrix - to make one movie. Becasue you could bin almost all of reloaded and lose nothing plot-wise.

[King Postwhore]

Damn, Michael Dorn is aging terribly.

And .. you can tell that by the edge of his cheek?

 
So old that he hid from the selfie.  I haven't seen him on TV of late.  He does do voice overs for cartoons.

[Orbert]

He has a recurring role on the show Castle.  He plays the therapist of the female lead detective.  He looks great.  He's older, but TNG was 20 years ago.

[King Postwhore]

Damn, and I watch that show too!  I knew that.

[jammindude]

Watching Star Trek the motion picture on the sci-fi channel marathon today. I always forget how completely under rated the first movie is. It may suffer from pacing, but yet actual plot line I think is brilliant. I love this movie!

[Kotowboy]

It's definitely better than both Search For Spock and Final Frontier.

I *might* like it better than Undiscovered Country too.

But that could change depending on mood.

[jammindude]

In Shatner's books, the joining of Decker with Ilia is the birth of the Borg. One of his better ideas IMHO.

[El Barto]

Last time I watched it I was busy doing stuff when it ended. It restarted and I realized that the first 20 minutes is just a long music video (or actually 4 different ones). You've got the opening theme, the Klingon theme, some segue music while Epsilon 9 gets blown up, the Vulcan music and the "Let's Fly Around the New Enterprise Theme," all with minimal dialogue. If it weren't for the transporter turning the science officer into Eckrich Farms bratwurst then it'd be suitable for the album. The total amount of speech in that is probably less than 3 minutes. After that 20 minute video the movie actually starts and it's relatively normal. I think that's the pacing problem that everybody has. It takes so long to get moving and people associate the whole film as being that slow.

That said, the score really is something else. It's absolutely worth watching just as a background bit whilst doing something else.

[Kotowboy]

The one time I found TMP slow was when i was a lot younger and I was just getting into Trek.

I saw TWOK first and obviously that one is quite action oriented.

I clearly remember watching TMP again when I was slightly older and enjoying it - and every time since.

[Orbert]

In Shatner's books, the joining of Decker with Ilia is the birth of the Borg. One of his better ideas IMHO.

That's a cool idea.  Even if it became canon, the only way for the audience to know it would be via some cheesy line specifically pointing it out, mentioning the key characters involved from TMP and of course a passing mention that that was during the historical Kirk era.  So it's almost better that it's not canon.  But in mind, this is how it is.

[hefdaddy42]

I don't buy it.  I always got the impression that the Borg had been around for a long time, assimilating and evolving as they went.  I see the union of Decker and Ilia as a new life form altogether, intent on positivity and growing, not a new race trying to assimilate everything. 

A theory that went around at one time was that the machine world that Voyager landed on was the Borg homeworld.  But I don't buy that either.

[rumborak]

It's a neat idea, but official canon puts the origin of the Borg at around 200,000 years ago as a normal biological lifeform.

[jingle.boy]

It's a neat idea, but official canon puts the origin of the Borg at around 200,000 years ago as a normal biological lifeform.

Plus, Guinan knew them from centuries ago.

[hefdaddy42]

It's a neat idea, but official canon puts the origin of the Borg at around 200,000 years ago as a normal biological lifeform.

And there's that.

[Orbert]

I guess I need to read up on my Borg history.

[jammindude]

I didn't think it could be canonized...I just thought that as an "outside canon" paperback book, that was a pretty damn good idea. 

Shatner actually has some pretty great ideas, I just think he's not the guy that should ultimately be the final decision maker as to what stays and goes in the story.     Even as a writer he's got an editor, presumably.    I still haven't read the Tekwar series, but I hear mostly good things about them. 

[BlobVanDam]

It's a neat idea, but official canon puts the origin of the Borg at around 200,000 years ago as a normal biological lifeform.

Plus, Guinan knew them from centuries ago.

Plus, it just sounds like the usual novel fanwank that typifies that sort of thing.

[hefdaddy42]

I read a ST:TNG novel years ago which theorized that the Doomsday Machine had been originally designed to fight the Borg.

It was a fun read, but that's it.

[rumborak]

Instead of viewing Decker-Ilia as the starting poin of the Borg, a much more likely story would be that V'ger was "upgraded" by the Borg.

[El Barto]

Instead of viewing Decker-Ilia as the starting poin of the Borg, a much more likely story would be that V'ger was "upgraded" by the Borg.

This was a much better premise. It came across a "similar" life form and it was repaired and rebuilt with the capability of fulfilling it's mission.

[rumborak]

It would also allow for an interesting twist in the Borg, that maybe they feel a certain compassion towards lower technological lifeforms. That their conquest only extends to biological lifeforms since they view them to be inferior.

[hefdaddy42]

Wouldn't it make more sense that they would attempt to assimilate it?

[El Barto]

The Borg never assimilated inferior technology or lifeforms. I recall Seven pointing out that the Kazon and Telaxians were both deemed unworthy of assimilation. They would have had access to what Voyager already knew when they upgraded it anyway.

[hefdaddy42]

The Borg never assimilated inferior technology or lifeforms. I recall Seven pointing out that the Kazon and Telaxians were both deemed unworthy of assimilation. They would have had access to what Voyager already knew when they upgraded it anyway.

I didn't know that.  I guess I didn't watch enough Voyager to pick up on it.

[El Barto]

The Borg never assimilated inferior technology or lifeforms. I recall Seven pointing out that the Kazon and Telaxians were both deemed unworthy of assimilation. They would have had access to what Voyager already knew when they upgraded it anyway.

I didn't know that.  I guess I didn't watch enough Voyager to pick up on it.

Yeah, assimilating an entire planet full of Neelix's probably would have lowered the collective intelligence of The Borg by a statistically noticeable amount. 

[BlobVanDam]

The Borg never assimilated inferior technology or lifeforms. I recall Seven pointing out that the Kazon and Telaxians were both deemed unworthy of assimilation. They would have had access to what Voyager already knew when they upgraded it anyway.

I didn't know that.  I guess I didn't watch enough Voyager to pick up on it.

Yeah, assimilating an entire planet full of Neelix's probably would have lowered the collective intelligence of The Borg by a statistically noticeable amount. 

But on the plus side, they'd gain skullet mohawks and funky clothes. Worth it!

[hefdaddy42]

I always assumed they assimilated everything, but I guess it makes more sense to only assimilate races from which you could learn something.

But didn't the Borg say something about improving the quality of life, in one of their earliest appearances?  Or am I misremembering?

[El Barto]

I always assumed they assimilated everything, but I guess it makes more sense to only assimilate races from which you could learn something.

But didn't the Borg say something about improving the quality of life, in one of their earliest appearances?  Or am I misremembering?

Yeah, but that was when they were trying to persuade somebody to go along with assimilation. I think there needs to be some sort of quid pro quo, and the Telaxians didn't bring much to the table.