MP's Shattered Fortress Tour

[KevShmev]

Don't get me wrong.  I have no illusions that writing and recording an album is all sweetness and lights.  It's hard work, and even the best of friends can be at each other's throats at times when grinding away to get the work done and done right.  I am just saying, I doubt LaBrie appreciated Portnoy's "dictatorial" style of producing, which always seemed rather different than Petrucci's, which came off to me like a guy who was trying to direct, but still realized, "hey, we are all still ultimately relative equals in this band" (although I am sure he likes being in charge by himself now ).

[Setlist Scotty]

They're 17, not 14, my bad.. I was looking at this post but forgot the three songs above:

Ummmmm, no. Let's do a recount again:
1. The Mirror
2. ACoS
3. Raise the Knife
4. Burning My Soul
5. Just Let Me Breathe
6. New Millennium
7. Strange Deja Vu
8. Home
9. Finally Free
10. The Glass Prison
11. parts of SDoIT
12. This Dying Soul
13. Honor Thy Father
14. The Root of All Evil
15. Never Enough
16. parts of 8v
17. Constant Motion
18. Repentance
19. Shattered Fortress
20. The Best of Times
 
 

Yeah 6DoIT and 8V wouldn't count because he wasn't the sole writer; if they would, that still would be instead a 19, not a 20, but anyways, is still far from his 30.. 

While I could agree with 8v, certainly parts of SDoIT can stand on their own - especially WIMH/TTTSTA, which DT has played many times both with and without MP. So at least that pairing should still count. And my point still stands - just because the number he gave was higher than what it ended up actually being doesn't mean the man was purposefully trying to pull one over on everyone.
 
 

I agree but Mike did talk about it in interviews and that's where James may have thought he crossed a line.

Quite possible.
 
 

Yes. There was a few interviews that I think any rational person knows that's not backing up your teammate.

I wouldn't use the word "rational" because MP is a very rational person in many cases. But nonetheless, it would've been best to be less forthcoming with such info.
 
 

Remember how JP handled the lead vocals for ADTOE. 

Yes, which is probably something that was learned by JP from the previous experiences, especially since in many ways they were starting fresh. Don't forget that JP was a co-producer with MP. If JP disagreed with the way MP was handling the matter, you can be sure that he would've argued with MP over it (as he did with MP's "rough" vocals on ANtR and whether to continue on with album #11 or take a hiatus), but he didn't. So JP can be held just as liable as MP regarding this.

[devieira73]

They're 17, not 14, my bad.. I was looking at this post but forgot the three songs above:

Ummmmm, no. Let's do a recount again:
1. The Mirror
2. ACoS
3. Raise the Knife
4. Burning My Soul
5. Just Let Me Breathe
6. New Millennium
7. Strange Deja Vu
8. Home
9. Finally Free
10. The Glass Prison
11. parts of SDoIT
12. This Dying Soul
13. Honor Thy Father
14. The Root of All Evil
15. Never Enough
16. parts of 8v
17. Constant Motion
18. Repentance
19. Shattered Fortress
20. The Best of Times
Add part of TTT too👍

[gzarruk]

They're 17, not 14, my bad.. I was looking at this post but forgot the three songs above:

Ummmmm, no. Let's do a recount again:
1. The Mirror
2. ACoS
3. Raise the Knife
4. Burning My Soul
5. Just Let Me Breathe
6. New Millennium
7. Strange Deja Vu
8. Home
9. Finally Free
10. The Glass Prison
11. parts of SDoIT
12. This Dying Soul
13. Honor Thy Father
14. The Root of All Evil
15. Never Enough
16. parts of 8v
17. Constant Motion
18. Repentance
19. Shattered Fortress
20. The Best of Times
Add part of TTT too👍

Also Raise The Knife.

[ToT-147]

Actually RtK IS on that list now, although I wasn't counting it at first because is not in the studio albums.. But yeap..

[SwedishGoose]

They're 17, not 14, my bad.. I was looking at this post but forgot the three songs above:

Ummmmm, no. Let's do a recount again:
1. The Mirror
2. ACoS
3. Raise the Knife
4. Burning My Soul
5. Just Let Me Breathe
6. New Millennium
7. Strange Deja Vu
8. Home
9. Finally Free
10. The Glass Prison
11. parts of SDoIT
12. This Dying Soul
13. Honor Thy Father
14. The Root of All Evil
15. Never Enough
16. parts of 8v
17. Constant Motion
18. Repentance
19. Shattered Fortress
20. The Best of Times
 

Add the instrumentals and you have about 30.

I think he counted them as well as they play two instrumentals in addition to songs MP wrote lyrics for.

[Mosh]

Only DTF will pick apart an offhand remark like that. 

[Bertielee]

Only DTF will pick apart an offhand remark like that. 

When someone is the king of offhand remarks just like MP is, the remarks become something else. Well, it's not like he has said such things countless times before...

B.Lee

[TheCountOfNYC]

They're 17, not 14, my bad.. I was looking at this post but forgot the three songs above:

Ummmmm, no. Let's do a recount again:
1. The Mirror
2. ACoS
3. Raise the Knife
4. Burning My Soul
5. Just Let Me Breathe
6. New Millennium
7. Strange Deja Vu
8. Home
9. Finally Free
10. The Glass Prison
11. parts of SDoIT
12. This Dying Soul
13. Honor Thy Father
14. The Root of All Evil
15. Never Enough
16. parts of 8v
17. Constant Motion
18. Repentance
19. Shattered Fortress
20. The Best of Times
Add part of TTT too👍

He also co-wrote the lyrics to A Rite of Passage.

[SystematicThought]

I don't think he co-wrote the lyrics. I think he did have big part in the riff though

[TheCountOfNYC]

I don't think he co-wrote the lyrics. I think he did have big part in the riff though

He's listed as one of the lyricists in the BC&SL booklet.

[Mosh]

Just looked at the booklet, lyrics are only credited to JP.

[ToT-147]

I don't think he co-wrote the lyrics. I think he did have big part in the riff though

He's listed as one of the lyricists in the BC&SL booklet.

I have "Lyrics by John Petrucci"..

[The Curious Orange]

I enjoyed the London show (despite not feeling too well, not really being in the mood for it and realising that my ankle isn't actually strong enough to stand up for that long yet), but I did feel that the setlist was a little one-dimensional, and it was like watching a covers band, albeit a great and incredibly talented one (Still better than The Astonishing, mind...).

That said, it was great to hear some of those songs again, and be reminded of what Mike brings to the party. DT may not miss him as a drummer, but as a larger-than-life personality, they're not the same without him. (Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing DT - they've not been the same since KevMo left... )

I'd LOVE to see Mike make some more music in this style, I'm not sure Haken are the guys to do it with tho.

DT with 2 drummers? Now there's a thought...

[devieira73]

Maybe I'm a minority here, but I'm really excited with the perspective of have another band doing progressive metal with a DT mindset, with a MP flavour for metal and kind "competing" with DT. Maybe this could bring some unexpected/new things to the genre. I have confidence that MP (and Derek) will bring an album with DT top quality. So, hopefully, this will be better than have MP and DT together in one band again.

[Stadler]

Why is it so hard for some of you to concede that you don't know everything and that you don't have complete information?   

You did it again.

Incomplete information isn't relevant at all.  MP is representing himself to be a complete jerk since he left.  Who cares what's behind the scenes or what's *really* going on?  If someone is acting like an abusive jerk at every opportunity then how is Joe Public supposed to think he's anything but that no matter what the circumstances are?

What did I "do again"?  "Abusive jerk" is subjective.  To make that subjective determination you have to know more about why things were said.   My friends and I routinely greet each other with things like "Hey fuckface".  Or "Blow me".  Is that abusive?  Not when you know we've been through thick, thin, love, hate, whatever for over 30 years.   To Kev's point:  taken on their face, many of Mike's statements are what most of you are saying they are.  There's no argument there.   But context is VERY important.   It's like a doctor walking into an exam room and saying "My diagnosis is..." without hearing what the patient's symptoms are.  It's like selecting a recipe for dinner and not bothering to check what ingredients you have.   

How can you fairly evaluate what someone is saying without knowing WHAT they are saying, WHY they are saying it, and to WHOM?   

No, that's a bunch of crap.  He is being criticized for what he has said/done publicly, and that is fair game.  And many of those same people are also praising him or have praised him for what he has said/done publicly that is good.  Your "team Mike" membership card is blinding you to the facts.

Exactly the point I'm trying to make also.

What facts? I'm the one saying there are facts that aren't being considered.  I just admitted above that with no other information, some of Mike's posts seem offensive (and I've implied that before).  What am I not being fair about? 

[jakepriest]

this thread has evolved into pure comedy gold

[Stadler]

Back to the music...  I'm really nervous about the vocals.   My opinion of LaBrie is akin to Bosk's for MP; I think his voice is crucial and integral to the sound of DT (and part of the reason I even got into the band) though my personal feelings for the guy are not all that high (and I don't think he's really a good front man at all.  "Let's RAAAAAAWWWWWKKKKKKKK!" doesn't make you a good frontman.)

I'm worried that the vocals are not going to do justice to the material.   Having said that, I'm not sure I want to see any of the videos before the show.  I know the setlist, and that's fine, but I want the experience...  any thoughts?

Actually I think JL is a good front man.  The Haken guy doing the vocals for Shattered Fortress is going to be acceptable, I think.  I actually don't know the whole setlist, but have watched a few videos of 12 step songs plus 1 more.  He is capable of hitting the notes; in some of the videos he struggles but more than OK for a live show.  I don't like his voice for the DT songs, and on the videos I'd say it doesn't do it justice 'cuz I just don't like the way it sounds.  However - when you are there live and in person?  Might be OK.  You know?

I do know.  I've seen David Lee Roth and Brian Johnson live.     

Another thread - and I'll repeat, his voice is why I got into DT to begin with - but compared to Bruce Dickinson, Ronnie Dio, Paul Stanley, Freddie Mercury, Bono, hell, even James Hetfield and the aforementioned Roth... James is not a great frontman.

I suppose we look for different things in front men.  I've never seen Bono or Freddie Mercury, but as for the rest, I'd only maaaayyyyyybe have conceded Bruce Dickinson but I also think CB was 100% right when he said:
"IMO a great frontman is a singer who is perfect for the band he's in. I really don't think that, for example, Bruce Dickinson would be a great frontman for DT. The band wouldn't be a unit on stage, JP, JR and JM would totally be pushed into the background. That's not the way DT works. Also, I always have the feeling that JLB is totally reflecting the meaning and the mood of the songs with his voice, that's the most important thing for me anyway."

James would look ridiculous if he tried to act like Bruce Dickinson.  I do think he is perfect for DT.  Knows when to get off the stage, has crowd participation at the right times in DT's music, knows how to get a response from the audience.  Always thought he was good, but he stepped it up even more on the last few tours, especially TA.

Back to your original question - I suggest not watching much of the videos and in the heat of the moment Ross will probably sound fine at the show. Plus MP will be there being MP and if you don't quite like the vocals you can focus you're attention elsewhere.

I don't argue that DT is a different band, and I'm not necessarily saying that JLB isn't a good fit in DT (remember, he's the reason I got into the band back in '92); but it's not graded on a curve.   

[Stadler]

Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?

Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.

I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there -  - but let's not forget:  "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).   

[Stadler]

You know, that second part is pretty sensible indeed. If he had really though that, there would have been no need for that first post. That's some double standards right there.

In the first post, he asked for the same sensitivity and understanding that he was offering to put forward in the second post.  It's not as if DT/Portnoy are Van Halen and Roth, or U2 or Bruce Springsteen; it's a tight knit group.  A fan who's not trying to be a dick would know better.  I don't think it was too much to ask. 

(I'm - hopefully - meeting Mike at the Morse Meet and Greet in August, and I've sent a note to someone I know who knows him on a "hey, text me, bro" basis, asking if it was cool to bring an Images and Words booklet (the first album I got from DT, back in '92 when it was released) to sign.  It's just common courtesy if you ask me.)

[devieira73]

I respect all the opinions (and passion) here, but what I personally find really amazing is the fact that an implicit comment of MP about hating James almost begun a third world war here. I don't know, but I'm perfectly fine with MP hating James. He's free to hate anyone he wants (specially if they aren't in the same band anymore)!

[Samsara]

this thread has evolved into pure comedy gold

I'd argue that it has instead involved into the shining example of what's wrong with the Internet.

Every time you try to push some of the more positive aspects of this, and talk about the shows themselves, the thread gets derailed with people trying to push their ego and point over others. Can't we just enjoy something without all the drama?

I had people at my old forum (and myself too) that did this, and now I realize how stupid it all was.

[Stadler]

I put together a playlist with the "Shattered Fortress" setlist, and wow, am I looking forward to this show.   I had previously edited the Twelve Step Suite into one long piece, so there's that, and added the SFAM bookends... I can't wait to see this.   (Though I have to admit; the vocals... I'm worried about the vocals.   James is such an integral part of the DT sound for me, especially on This Dying Soul and Home.)

To a previous post, I don't know how the Haken singer is going to translate, but I'm glad it's him and not Russell Allen; I may not have gone had it been Russell singing.   He just doesn't do it for me. 

[Stadler]

this thread has evolved into pure comedy gold

I'd argue that it has instead involved into the shining example of what's wrong with the Internet.

Every time you try to push some of the more positive aspects of this, and talk about the shows themselves, the thread gets derailed with people trying to push their ego and point over others. Can't we just enjoy something without all the drama?

I had people at my old forum (and myself too) that did this, and now I realize how stupid it all was.

It's ALL meaningless, in the sense that it's not curing cancer or solving world peace.   But we're passionate about our music, and while I can't speak for anyone else, there's not a person in this thread that I wouldn't raise a beer with the night of the show (that's an offer, by the way).  None of this should be cause for ill feelings.  We happen to disagree, that's all.   

[TAC]

To a previous post, I don't know how the Haken singer is going to translate, but I'm glad it's him and not Russell Allen; I may not have gone had it been Russell singing.   He just doesn't do it for me.

I'm totally with you on Russ Allen.

[jakepriest]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't stand Russel Allen. He's the main reason why I could never get through a Symphony X song.

[cramx3]

To a previous post, I don't know how the Haken singer is going to translate, but I'm glad it's him and not Russell Allen; I may not have gone had it been Russell singing.   He just doesn't do it for me.

I'm totally with you on Russ Allen.

Yea, would have turned me off from going as well.   Haken being the backing band does the opposite. 

[Lethean]

I like Russell Allen's voice - especially when he's not going overboard with the rougher stuff. I prefer his singing, especially on older Symphony X, to Haken's vocals. Despite that, Ross is a better fit.  I think he's struggled some but Russell would really have a hard time based on what I've seen from him live.

[MirrorMask]

Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?

Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.

I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there -  - but let's not forget:  "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).

Well, probably out of all DT members, James is the one that didn't hide behind a PR politeness as good as the others, but I understand his frustation at the comments from Mike about not chosing him again if given the chance... can you imagine in reverse the same statements? James saying "Well, Mike's great and all but right now we're all laid back dude so if given the chance we'd pick a less flamboyant drummer"?

That's like Steve Harris saying "Well, we picked Blaze Bayley because he's british, if Doogie White wasn't american he would have been a better choice", or Judas Priest saying "We picked Ripper because he's a clone, if we could find someone else now we'd go for a singer with a different style"... that's something you just don't say about a bandmate.

[Lethean]

Back to the music...  I'm really nervous about the vocals.   My opinion of LaBrie is akin to Bosk's for MP; I think his voice is crucial and integral to the sound of DT (and part of the reason I even got into the band) though my personal feelings for the guy are not all that high (and I don't think he's really a good front man at all.  "Let's RAAAAAAWWWWWKKKKKKKK!" doesn't make you a good frontman.)

I'm worried that the vocals are not going to do justice to the material.   Having said that, I'm not sure I want to see any of the videos before the show.  I know the setlist, and that's fine, but I want the experience...  any thoughts?

Actually I think JL is a good front man.  The Haken guy doing the vocals for Shattered Fortress is going to be acceptable, I think.  I actually don't know the whole setlist, but have watched a few videos of 12 step songs plus 1 more.  He is capable of hitting the notes; in some of the videos he struggles but more than OK for a live show.  I don't like his voice for the DT songs, and on the videos I'd say it doesn't do it justice 'cuz I just don't like the way it sounds.  However - when you are there live and in person?  Might be OK.  You know?

I do know.  I've seen David Lee Roth and Brian Johnson live.     

Another thread - and I'll repeat, his voice is why I got into DT to begin with - but compared to Bruce Dickinson, Ronnie Dio, Paul Stanley, Freddie Mercury, Bono, hell, even James Hetfield and the aforementioned Roth... James is not a great frontman.

I suppose we look for different things in front men.  I've never seen Bono or Freddie Mercury, but as for the rest, I'd only maaaayyyyyybe have conceded Bruce Dickinson but I also think CB was 100% right when he said:
"IMO a great frontman is a singer who is perfect for the band he's in. I really don't think that, for example, Bruce Dickinson would be a great frontman for DT. The band wouldn't be a unit on stage, JP, JR and JM would totally be pushed into the background. That's not the way DT works. Also, I always have the feeling that JLB is totally reflecting the meaning and the mood of the songs with his voice, that's the most important thing for me anyway."

James would look ridiculous if he tried to act like Bruce Dickinson.  I do think he is perfect for DT.  Knows when to get off the stage, has crowd participation at the right times in DT's music, knows how to get a response from the audience.  Always thought he was good, but he stepped it up even more on the last few tours, especially TA.

Back to your original question - I suggest not watching much of the videos and in the heat of the moment Ross will probably sound fine at the show. Plus MP will be there being MP and if you don't quite like the vocals you can focus you're attention elsewhere.

I don't argue that DT is a different band, and I'm not necessarily saying that JLB isn't a good fit in DT (remember, he's the reason I got into the band back in '92); but it's not graded on a curve.

Not sure what you mean. Or, if you think I'm saying he should be considered a better frontman than he actually is because of DT, I'm not. I think he is a good frontman, period.  Maybe he wouldn't be a good frontman for Van Halen, but I think I'd still prefer him over Roth. DLR would, to me, be a horrible frontman for DT. I could create my own band and pick any frontman, it wouldn't be the guys you listed. If I was told I could put any voice on them (I could have JL's voice and DLR's behavior), I still wouldn't do it. Like I said I think we want different things out of a frontman.

[bill1971]

I look at the whole MP and Shattered Fortress thing like this. It's like a romantic vacation that you planned with your wife for many years. You planned the trip, broke up with your wife for a younger woman(Avenged Sevenfold). The younger woman really does not want you long term. You try to go back to your wife then get mad at her for not taking you back and not taking that vacation that you planned for together.

[antigoon]

If bosk1 could trade DT-MP wife/baby metaphors for a dollar each, he could probably retire early and indefinitely pay for upkeep of the site at this point

[Stadler]

Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?

Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.

I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there -  - but let's not forget:  "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).

Well, probably out of all DT members, James is the one that didn't hide behind a PR politeness as good as the others, but I understand his frustation at the comments from Mike about not chosing him again if given the chance... can you imagine in reverse the same statements? James saying "Well, Mike's great and all but right now we're all laid back dude so if given the chance we'd pick a less flamboyant drummer"?

That's like Steve Harris saying "Well, we picked Blaze Bayley because he's british, if Doogie White wasn't american he would have been a better choice", or Judas Priest saying "We picked Ripper because he's a clone, if we could find someone else now we'd go for a singer with a different style"... that's something you just don't say about a bandmate.

I don't mean to put you on the spot (and for all I know, you agree with me, so I'm arguing with myself) but if you can accommodate James' frustration, and understand why HE lashed out, why are we not willing to do that with Mike himself?   You either go all in on "face value/no context" or all in on "the whole story matters".   One doesn't get a pass and the other does.   

[Lethean]

Why aren't MP and Labrie in good terms? What happened? Source?

Only speculation, but Mike has talked shit about James over the years, and I'd assume James doesn't like that too much. He may have even been the main person keeping Mike from doing collaborations, which in turn would cause Mike's dislike.

I know I'm the one that usually ignores all the facts out there -  - but let's not forget:  "I'm glad he's gone", "We finally feel free", "I can now be the frontman instead of sharing the stage" (yeah, you stepped it up, bud; 51 minutes behind the amp line playing Candy Crush instead of the former 53 minutes); "What he did wasn't really that hard or special"; "We as a band will each take a little piece of what Mike did and we'll do it; you won't notice a thing!" (still waiting on that Ytsejam batch, and the rotating setlists, James!).

Well, probably out of all DT members, James is the one that didn't hide behind a PR politeness as good as the others, but I understand his frustation at the comments from Mike about not chosing him again if given the chance... can you imagine in reverse the same statements? James saying "Well, Mike's great and all but right now we're all laid back dude so if given the chance we'd pick a less flamboyant drummer"?

That's like Steve Harris saying "Well, we picked Blaze Bayley because he's british, if Doogie White wasn't american he would have been a better choice", or Judas Priest saying "We picked Ripper because he's a clone, if we could find someone else now we'd go for a singer with a different style"... that's something you just don't say about a bandmate.

Also, JL wasn't the only one saying some of those things. I think it was JR who said it wasn't rocket science, referring to the things Mike did. JR also was the one who mentioned several times, about feeling a bit freer. I don't think JL actually ever said I'm glad he's gone. He just said he wasn't sad, and that made sense in the context of the full interview.

[Stadler]

Not sure what you mean. Or, if you think I'm saying he should be considered a better frontman than he actually is because of DT, I'm not. I think he is a good frontman, period.  Maybe he wouldn't be a good frontman for Van Halen, but I think I'd still prefer him over Roth. DLR would, to me, be a horrible frontman for DT. I could create my own band and pick any frontman, it wouldn't be the guys you listed. If I was told I could put any voice on them (I could have JL's voice and DLR's behavior), I still wouldn't do it. Like I said I think we want different things out of a frontman.

What I'm saying is, "being a great frontman for DT" doesn't mean "great front man".  Ace Frehley was the PERFECT guitar player for Kiss; as much as I love his playing, he is not now and never will be a guitar player of the caliber of Ritchie Blackmore or Jimmy Page.   I don't know what your sport is, but Phil Simms was the PERFECT quarterback for the New York Giants when they won the Super Bowl.  He is not (and shouldn't be) anywhere near the list of the top 50 quarterbacks of all time.   James is good for DT (though I have some problems with his stage banter and what not) but that doesn't put him at the level of Freddie or Bono.   Not saying he couldn't rise to the occasion, but I've not seen it yet.