MP's Shattered Fortress Tour

[KevShmev]

I totally agree with every sentence of this post.

Given that what he said about DT not allowing the Shattered Fortress show is factually wrong, how can you agree with every sentence?

Or are you simply patting him on the back for the parody?

What actually did I have wrong?

DT is allowing the Shattered Fortress.

This.

Bottom line, Stadler: you keep talking about how we don't know and we don't know that, but you are bending over backwards to give Portnoy every benefit of the doubt, while seemingly assuming the worst about Dream Theater, which is bizarre since DT has repeatedly taken the high road, while their ex-drummer often has not.

I know you are "Team Mike," as well as a lawyer who sometimes has to defend the indefensible, as you are doing here, but a tinny tiny bit of objectivity on your part would be a welcome change.  Just saying...

[King Postwhore]

Its well documented about the breakup.  There is no confusion. Mike forced the break up.

[PetFish]

We KNOW there is more to the story.  We KNOW it.   That's my point; you can't ignore the facts that don't support your argument.   It's public information that there is  more to the story.   

You keep saying this and you're right, we KNOW there's more to the story.

What you don't seem realize is that whatever is "actually" happening is irrelevant to what's we are discussing.  Behind the scenes they could be best friends or mortal enemies, we don't know, and whatever it is has no weight at all in what we are discussing.

What we DO KNOW is how MP is representing himself and the situation to be on social media and THAT is where the problem is.  He's representing himself as a vengeful, spiteful, grudge-holding, and abusive person and taking every opportunity to trash DT and the situation that he himself is the sole cause of so what else are people supposed to think?  Just when we think that maybe he's going to finally get over it he doubles-down on the victim card and plays the blame game some more.

How we can possibly read anything into the situation beyond what is public knowledge... and that public knowledge is that MP won't stop trashing and being abusive towards DT and DT have been adults and tried to move on and have been quiet and professional about the whole situation but they, and us, can't move on cuz MP just can't seem to let it go.

[JayOctavarium]

Wait...

Mike Portnoy isn't in Dream Theater anymore?

[Madman Shepherd]

Wait...

Mike Portnoy isn't in Dream Theater anymore?

Well, he sort of is.  He is calling it Queen Theater and Geoff Tate is the vocalist.  They're currently touring in support of their rock opera Scenes from a Mindcrime. 

[axeman90210]

Wait...

Mike Portnoy isn't in Dream Theater anymore?

Mike Portnoy... jewish?

[TempusVox]

Some people can spot a dick a mile away.

YUCK! I am not a fan of Spotted Dick at all. It's downright disgustingly bland. Although a good bread pudding can be delightful if properly prepared.

[Mladen]

Now we're talking.

[Architeuthis]

Wait...

Mike Portnoy isn't in Dream Theater anymore?

Well, he sort of is.  He is calling it Queen Theater and Geoff Tate is the vocalist.  They're currently touring in support of their rock opera Scenes from a Mindcrime.

I thought it was supposed to be Dreamsryche.. 

[Kwyjibo]

Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.

I'm still convinced that this will somehow some day see the light of day. It's too good an opportunity to let it pass.

[Progmetty]

Maybe he needs to revisit some of the later steps - he's got a reminder every night of the tour.

Yep. Whatever happened to "kindness - it's not that hard", "self-restraint of tongue and pen" and "willingness to understand?"

Have you never heard the hidden bonus track on the Vietnamese import CD of BC&SL?

It's an epilogue to the 12 steps called "XIII - Ah, Screw It" where the person just decides to ignore everything they just went through and go back to abusing people.

The one that usually get me is "Sometimes you gotta be wrong and learn from mistakes, I live with serenity now, not self righteous hate".

Mike -- I believe they CAN stop Mike from releasing the shows because those songs are Dream Theater songs, not Mike Portnoy solo songs. The credits show that. It takes cutting through a lot of red tape to do it (and money).

I took your post as being a bit aggressive toward me. No need to be that way, I have no dog in the race, I don't take "sides." I was just pointing out that bands can routinely cover another band's songs. But when they wish to release that material is when it can get sticky.
It's basic copyright stuff (yes, I'm a lawyer).

The only similar example I can think of is Roger Waters and Pink Floyd, Waters kept touring and releasing Pink Floyd songs after he left and they also continued to tour and release songs he wrote while in the band, which was most of the critically acclaimed stuff. I never heard about a copyright feud between them, except the one they went to court for, the band name.

[MirrorMask]

Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.

I'm still convinced that this will somehow some day see the light of day. It's too good an opportunity to let it pass.

Well, Mike surely is one capable of planning ahead, better to record this and let it sit in his vault, than eventually patching things up with DT down the line and realize "...oh, fuck, I didn't record it 'cause I thought they'd never allow for a special release"

[bosk1]

What actually did I have wrong? 

You didn't take a big steaming shit on MP.  Defending him in any fashion appears to be frowned upon.

Well, if that's what you think, you've so grossly missed the point that I don't know what to tell you.

[mikeyd23]

Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.

I'm still convinced that this will somehow some day see the light of day. It's too good an opportunity to let it pass.

Well, Mike surely is one capable of planning ahead, better to record this and let it sit in his vault, than eventually patching things up with DT down the line and realize "...oh, fuck, I didn't record it 'cause I thought they'd never allow for a special release"

That's exactly what I was thinking, honestly, if I was MP I'd do the same thing. With technology nowadays it costs a lot less to have a couple cameras set up and just record it in case he can release it. I'm assuming they are touring with a digital mixing desk that is probably recording each audio track anyway, so he might as well prepare for the best case scenario (for him that is).

[Stadler]

I totally agree with every sentence of this post.

Given that what he said about DT not allowing the Shattered Fortress show is factually wrong, how can you agree with every sentence?

Or are you simply patting him on the back for the parody?

What actually did I have wrong?

DT is allowing the Shattered Fortress.

This.

Bottom line, Stadler: you keep talking about how we don't know and we don't know that, but you are bending over backwards to give Portnoy every benefit of the doubt, while seemingly assuming the worst about Dream Theater, which is bizarre since DT has repeatedly taken the high road, while their ex-drummer often has not.

I know you are "Team Mike," as well as a lawyer who sometimes has to defend the indefensible, as you are doing here, but a tinny tiny bit of objectivity on your part would be a welcome change.  Just saying...

I see it differently.   To me, "silence" is not the high road.   And I'm not "assuming" anything, that's the point.  I'm not at ALL saying MIKE IS RIGHT, and I'm not calling DT "passive aggressive dicks".    I'm not making ANY judgments; I'm saying "I don't have enough information to MAKE judgments".   How much more objective can I get?

[Stadler]

What we DO KNOW is how MP is representing himself and the situation to be on social media and THAT is where the problem is.  He's representing himself as a vengeful, spiteful, grudge-holding, and abusive person and taking every opportunity to trash DT and the situation that he himself is the sole cause of so what else are people supposed to think?  Just when we think that maybe he's going to finally get over it he doubles-down on the victim card and plays the blame game some more.

One, that is a GROSS overstatement; "I have reconciled with three of the members"... OH MY GOSH! How abusive and cruel!   The heartlessness to say he has reconciled!   (I kid a little to lighten the mood, but still...).    I strongly disagree, though, that the "whys" are important here.   I'm not calling YOU this (or any one person) but I believe - in any context, not just Mike - that if you draw a conclusion on certain information, and knowingly and with intent ignore other information, that is ignorant.  It just is.   We KNOW there is more to the story.  Without knowing what that is, how can we conclude that it "doesn't matter to the conclusion"?   

How we can possibly read anything into the situation beyond what is public knowledge... and that public knowledge is that MP won't stop trashing and being abusive towards DT and DT have been adults and tried to move on and have been quiet and professional about the whole situation but they, and us, can't move on cuz MP just can't seem to let it go.

Again, your subjective conclusion on "trashing" and "abusive"; two, "silence" doesn't mean "adult", "mature" or "high road" (Bill Cosby was silent too for a fairly long time after he was "abused" and "trashed" in the media).   You're ignoring information that IS public knowledge, i.e. that there IS more to the story.   It baffles me why you are so adamant to trash MIKE without any sense of fairness to the situation.  I am Team Mike, and proud of it, but when he's an ass, I'll say so.   Some of what he's saying COULD BE that he's an ass; but I KNOW that he has more info than I do.   Why is it so hard for some of you to concede that you don't know everything and that you don't have complete information?     

[Stadler]

What actually did I have wrong? 

You didn't take a big steaming shit on MP.  Defending him in any fashion appears to be frowned upon.

Well, if that's what you think, you've so grossly missed the point that I don't know what to tell you.

Not you personally, but for some people here, that's pretty much the case.   

[bosk1]

What actually did I have wrong? 

You didn't take a big steaming shit on MP.  Defending him in any fashion appears to be frowned upon.

Well, if that's what you think, you've so grossly missed the point that I don't know what to tell you.

Not you personally, but for some people here, that's pretty much the case.   

No, that's a bunch of crap.  He is being criticized for what he has said/done publicly, and that is fair game.  And many of those same people are also praising him or have praised him for what he has said/done publicly that is good.  Your "team Mike" membership card is blinding you to the facts. 

[mikeyd23]

I see it differently.   To me, "silence" is not the high road.   And I'm not "assuming" anything, that's the point.  I'm not at ALL saying MIKE IS RIGHT, and I'm not calling DT "passive aggressive dicks".    I'm not making ANY judgments; I'm saying "I don't have enough information to MAKE judgments".   How much more objective can I get?

You literally referred to yourself as being on "team Mike"...

[TAC]

I can't say too much, but let's just say there's stuff that has happened and is continuing to happen "behind closed doors" as it were. Not everything that is going on has been talked about in the media...

THIS THIS and THIS
There is a lot more to the situation than is public. One side has put up an iron wall. I do wish the other side would at least put up a picket fence(at least on things pertaining to this subject).

Since I am basically confined to my couch for a few days, I have gone back a few pages and found this post. If there are two guys qualified to speak to this, it's Bob and Kim.

I have a few thoughts.


If I am going to guess what you guys are talking about, it would be that MP is trying to get permission to release a Shattered Fortress show.

If DT actually stone wall this effort, that would disappoint me.

I read MP's comments as a source of frustration, not as being a jerk.

Taking the high road does not always mean you are taking the High Road.

Mike, unless you are legally bound not to, just play A Change Of Seasons if you really want to.

Personally, I am not interested in seeing Haken cover DT. I'm sure the shows are performed well, and seeing MP play is great.

DT still have yet to replace MP's personality on stage. That is NOT a shot at MM. In fact, MM still shows more emotion and fun than the rest of the guys.

I miss watching and listening to MP. He has done nothing of interest to me since leaving DT.

DT has released 3 really good albums, and love it or hate it, The Astonishing was a huge gamble, and I totally respect that.

Other than the Happy Holidays 2013, which was cool, DT has really done nothing else "extra" that the fans had grown accustomed to under MP's tenure. Yes, two live albums. Cool. Except for the one tour that you couldn't film or take pictures at, right?

My Percocet is wearing off...time for another!

[cramx3]

Wait...

Mike Portnoy isn't in Dream Theater anymore?

Well, he sort of is.  He is calling it Queen Theater and Geoff Tate is the vocalist.  They're currently touring in support of their rock opera Scenes from a Mindcrime.

 

Some people can spot a dick a mile away.

YUCK! I am not a fan of Spotted Dick at all. It's downright disgustingly bland. Although a good bread pudding can be delightful if properly prepared.

 

Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.

I'm still convinced that this will somehow some day see the light of day. It's too good an opportunity to let it pass.

Nice, even if we don't get a recording, it's good to know that they are still capturing this.  That gives hope that one day it gets released. 

My Percocet is wearing off...time for another!

 

[TAC]

 

My Percocet is wearing off...time for another!

 

I had a double hernia yesterday. I figured I'd read through this thread to re-live the experience.

[cramx3]

  hope all is well man!

[bosk1]

If there are two guys qualified to speak to this, it's Bob and Kim.

Yup.  But beyond that, we STILL don't know anything more.  And based on what the criticisms are that are the focus of this thread (not talking about all the idiots on Facebook, YouTube or whatever who bash anything and anything related to Mike Portnoy, which is unfair and stupid), it doesn't really matter.  Whatever went on behind the scenes, that isn't really relevant to what we are discussing here.

If I am going to guess what you guys are talking about, it would be that MP is trying to get permission to release a Shattered Fortress show.

If DT actually stone wall this effort, that would disappoint me.

As to the first point, that is a HUGE assumption, and we don't really have any information to base that on.  As to the second, if DT is "stonewalling" the effort to film/release this, there may be perfectly legitimate reasons why.  There might not.  But there might.  We just don't know.  I would resist any kneejerk reactions because, unlike the issue of MP's public shots at DT, something like this would need context.

I read MP's comments as a source of frustration, not as being a jerk.

Fair enough.  You are entitled to read it that way.  Others read it much differently, and that's valid too.

Mike, unless you are legally bound not to, just play A Change Of Seasons if you really want to.

Absolutely.

Personally, I am not interested in seeing Haken cover DT. I'm sure the shows are performed well, and seeing MP play is great.

Well, okay, but I think you are unintentionally trivializing this project by reducing it to "Haken covering DT."  It's a Mike Portnoy-led project, and by all accounts, the performance is total quality.  For me, despite my ever-growing distaste for Mike Portnoy the individual, I would LOVE to see this if it came near me.

DT still have yet to replace MP's personality on stage. That is NOT a shot at MM. In fact, MM still shows more emotion and fun than the rest of the guys.

I get where you are coming from.  I think what MM brings to the table is just as energetic and fun.  It's just different.  I honestly can't say which I prefer because they both bring lots of cool things to the table.  But I will say that the rest of the band has looked more energized and happy onstage since MM joined than at least the two tour cycles before that, and I think that adds tremendous value.

I miss watching and listening to MP. He has done nothing of interest to me since leaving DT.

Mixed bag for me.  He has done some great work and some work I have no interest in.  But the stuff I have liked the most (Neal Morse, Transatlantic) is the same stuff he was doing as side projects when he was still WITH DT, so...

DT has released 3 really good albums, and love it or hate it, The Astonishing was a huge gamble, and I totally respect that.

Yup.

[antigoon]

Can't we all just agree that regardless of the underlying facts Mike can tend to act in a petty and passive-aggressive manner when speaking publicly? I mean, this isn't something that started when he left the band; it's always been true.

Personally (I haven't always felt this way), I find a lot of the stuff he says to be entertaining and amusing, and compared to some of his peers in the music industry who have done some truly odious things, I don't really think it's a big deal. But I get why it bothers people.

[TAC]

Yup.  But beyond that, we STILL don't know anything more.  And based on what the criticisms are that are the focus of this thread (not talking about all the idiots on Facebook, YouTube or whatever who bash anything and anything related to Mike Portnoy, which is unfair and stupid), it doesn't really matter.  Whatever went on behind the scenes, that isn't really relevant to what we are discussing here.

Sure, probably belongs in another thread. But since Bob and Kim posted those posts in this thread, I figure there is some relevancy to the discussion.

As to the first point, that is a HUGE assumption, and we don't really have any information to base that on.  As to the second, if DT is "stonewalling" the effort to film/release this, there may be perfectly legitimate reasons why.  There might not.  But there might.  We just don't know.  I would resist any kneejerk reactions because, unlike the issue of MP's public shots at DT, something like this would need context.

Yes, totally speculative. This was just the first thing that came to mind, especially with them posting in this thread. I wouldn't refer it as a kneejerk reaction. Just thinking about it, that's all.

Well, okay, but I think you are unintentionally trivializing this project by reducing it to "Haken covering DT."  It's a Mike Portnoy-led project, and by all accounts, the performance is total quality.  For me, despite my ever-growing distaste for Mike Portnoy the individual, I would LOVE to see this if it came near me.

Yes, perhaps I am. I hope MP gets whatever it is he wants to get out of these shows. I really do. I have no ill will for these shows. I love and miss MP. If this came to Boston, I would have to consider it, but the stars would have to be perfectly aligned for it..ie weekend, not a late club show, etc..

[goo-goo]

Yes, perhaps I am. I hope MP gets whatever it is he wants to get out of these shows. I really do. I have no ill will for these shows. I love and miss MP. If this came to Boston, I would have to consider it, but the stars would have to be perfectly aligned for it..ie weekend, not a late club show, etc..

And no Percocet 

[TAC]

 

Definitely not!

[MirrorMask]

Personally (I haven't always felt this way), I find a lot of the stuff he says to be entertaining and amusing, and compared to some of his peers in the music industry who have done some truly odious things, I don't really think it's a big deal. But I get why it bothers people.

Ah, that's for sure. He seriously needs a lesson or two from a PR manager on how to behave on social media, but nothing he's ever done or said made me seriously cringe in utter contempt. He oozes enthusiasm for what he does and it clearly transpires in his messages.

[Elite]

Sorry for not replying to all the bullshitdiscussion of the past few pages. I just came home from seeing the Shattered Fortress a second time. First time was Barcelona at the Be Prog! My Friend festival, this one was Tilburg, at the oft-played 013.

I liked tonight's show far better than the first, although it also reinforced some not-so-positive thoughts I had abot this whole thing as well. I enjoyed it though, and had fun, and that's the most important part. I might type out a more detailed post when I'm not on my phone.

Oh, for the record, there were about 6 video cameras filming, both on and off-stage.

What was better about it?  The longer set?  Or was it just a better performance?  As to the latter, that's the problem with very limited tours--because the string of dates is so short, bands sometimes can't justify extended pre-tour rehearsal time and don't have as many dates on the road to gel and become a tight unit.  Not sure if that is the case here or not, but they sounded pretty tight on the first night, from what I heard. 

I think the whole show worked a lot better in an inside venue than on a stage outside at a festival. The visuals and lighting added a lot to the overall quality of the show. Also, seeing Home was a great addition and a song that was unfortunately absent from the Barcelona gig. Mr. portnoy himself seemed even more enthusiastic than usual, perhaps because this was at the 013 venue, a place he has played numerous times with lots of different bands. We were called 'the greatest prog audience in Europe' (I wonder how many others there are ) and he held a long speech about different times he had been in the Netherlands.

I think it's a combination of ambience and setlist. The total package came out better and I do believe the band was a little tighter as well, even though I've seen a couple screw-ups, but that sort of stuff adds to the 'live'-factor for me.

[MirrorMask]

We were called 'the greatest prog audience in Europe' (I wonder how many others there are )

Why, Milan in Italy of course! 

(And he said so recently on FB! Also, I still remember his shoutout from the mic at the end of a DT show: "Milano!!!! the best, as always!")

[Elite]

So, he lied to us? 

[Samsara]

Glad to hear that the shows are getting better and the band tighter. It is such a huge bummer this isn't coming to the U.S. really, aside from NYC and Atlanta. All of you in Europe and across the world getting it are very lucky. Here's hoping the footage (thanks for confirming he is recording this Elite) makes it out to the rest of us at some point.

Still crossing my fingers that NYC gets "A Change of Seasons" and/or some other special surprises. I won't be there, but friends are going!

[Architeuthis]

A U.S. tour would be nice. I think there's a bigger market in Europe. They seem to have a much bigger appreciation for this kind of music over there,  same with Asia and South America. The U.S. is too mainstream..

[cramx3]

A U.S. tour would be nice. I think there's a bigger market in Europe. They seem to have a much bigger appreciation for this kind of music over there,  same with Asia and South America. The U.S. is too mainstream..

Yup, totally agreed.  Seemed like MP had to work hard just to get the NYC date, which isn't a huge venue and isn't even sold out.   ProgPower makes tons of sense though.