DreamTheaterForums.org Dream Theater Fan Site
General => General Music Discussion => Topic started by: Skeever on June 20, 2018, 02:56:47 PM
-
It seems like progressive music is really fizzling out and getting harder to find. The bands that were big when I was getting into prog in the 90s/early 00s (DT, Porcupine Tree, Flower Kings, Spock's, Opeth, Pain of Salvation) seem smaller than ever before, and now that these guys have become "the Old Guard", it doesn't seem like there are many new acts that could even dream of getting as big as DT or PT did.
Are people just losing interest in prog? Or... is there something about the technology (for both creating and listening to music) that set prog up for renewed success in the 90s, even if it's no longer true now? Perhaps prog is a hard sell for a world where music is more disposal than ever, and was an easier sell for a pre-streaming world where you used the internet to discover new artists but didn't have entire discographies at your fingertips. Idk. Open discussion.
-
Oversaturation. A problem with almost every genre these days. There are just too many artists, too many niches. You put 50 prog fans in a room together and I guarantee you every single one of them will be a fan of artists most of the others aren't familiar with or straight up dislike, or have opposite opinions on. Prog's already a diverse genre, you couple all the benefits of the Internet and how easy it is to make a record these days and the fandom can easily become fragmented with the impossible number of artists to follow. Then you get big acts like Opeth who do complete 180s and that alone will split the fandom like whoa.
-
Maybe your style of prog is fizzling. I still find great prog bands today.
-
I wasn't really aware that it was fiddling out, just that - as an extension of what Katt said, with so many options for bands people find their niches rather than flocking around a smaller set of "big" prog bands
That said I still see a number of newer bands that get a lot of attention, Haken always comes to mind
-
I wasn't really aware that it was fiddling out, just that - as an extension of what Katt said, with so many options for bands people find their niches rather than flocking around a smaller set of "big" prog bands
That said I still see a number of newer bands that get a lot of attention, Haken always comes to mind
I'd also like to mention Big Big Train. Sure they were formed in 1990 but I feel like they had a "new" formation in 2009 when David Longdon joined. They've been on an uphill path ever since. And I HOPE that Nick D'Virgilio will not quit the band or that (worse) they call it quits anytime soon.
-
I kinda agree with everyone else; it's not really fizzling out, it's just the way the industry is. Also, I think "as big as DT" has been a nearly impossible goal for the vast majority of bands for quite some time; probably since Images and Words. Maybe Opeth has gotten close in some cities as far as attendance, but I don't think any of the other bands you mentioned got near DT, but that's OK. There's a still a lot of great progressive music being created.
-
The frontrunners, including the old guard like DT, Wilson, and Opeth and the newer darlings like Haken, have mostly gone stagnant and are mostly happy enough to just retread old ground until anyone not super attached gets tired of hearing the same thing. There are less reasons for a non-prog-fanatic to be interested in where the genre is going then there were in the 2000s
-
it's mostly become underground, but that hardly means there isn't good, progressive music being made right now.
-
I don't think it is fizzling out at all.... sure there are not any new DT success stories lateley but:
- There is sooo much great progressive music being made now both by the old guard and the new
- There are quite a few progressive internet radio stations
- Prog Magazine is alive and kicking
- More progressive bands than I can rember ever happened before tour (might be my view only as we have since a few years a specialized progressive promotor in Sweden)
No I don't think it's fizzling out.... I think it's growing but as there are more and more bands every year each band will get a smaller share of the growing market.
-
There's tons of great new prog music. Maybe some bands aren't as big anymore but DT did come in a time where there wasn't as many doing their thing and that's also an important part in becoming big actually (and other factors as well ofc).
I also find strong prog influences in more music and where I before never expected it. Many years ago I was listening to a local girl called Anna Von Hausswolff which first album is suggestiv piano music with a strong pop base. Fast forward and she plays the organ with strong progressive influences and even this happened:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bj5C3ZSFDTC/?hl=en&taken-by=annavonhausswolff
-
No money to be made in Prog. Just throwing it out there.
-
No money to be made in Prog. Just throwing it out there.
That's actually a big part of it I think, whether it should be or not. A lot of the guys with the chops to play prog settle for being touring players for pop or country acts because that's where the money is nowadays.
-
Was it ever really big enough to fizzle? Maybe, but I just think that rock n roll and it's various sub genres were much bigger back in the day and all genres have fizzled a bit. Maybe oversaturation, and maybe just trends of music, but it's still there however. It's easier now to discover a new band, but maybe harder now to discover the next great band.
-
And let's not forget that all music moves in cycles to a degree.
-
Give me a break! You're just not looking hard enough. And if apparent "commercial success" is your yardstick, you need to get a better yardstick.
It's not fizzling out again; it never ever has! PROG WILL NEVER DIE!!!
-
No money to be made in Prog. Just throwing it out there.
There's little money to be made in most genres nowadays. Unless you're a big name like Taylor Swift, Chance the Rapper, or Marshmello, you're probably not going to be making a whole lot of money off of album sales, streaming, or touring. There was a video Misha Mansoor did with Rick Beato where he talked about this and said that he barely breaks even from touring and album sales. Most of his money comes from sponsorships, teaching, and things like that. Album and song sales are declining in every genre and even big pop artists (aside from Taylor Swift) are having trouble filling venues and selling tickets. Prog/metal being kinda niche just makes it a lot worse for them.
Every genre is over-saturated at this point because it's getting easier and easier to make music than it ever was. Great-looking music videos can be shot on iPhones now, anyone with a decent laptop can get a DAW and start producing and recording music, and equipment is getting cheaper and cheaper. Services like Distrokid, CDBaby, and Tunecore let you blast your music into every online service imaginable. You can even post music directly to things like YouTube, SoundCloud, NoiseTrade, and BandCamp. People can even pay you directly through Patreon. The barrier to entry in the music industry has lowered so much in the last decade it's let ANYONE start making music. This lets a lot of great artists (like Chance the Rapper or Lindsey Stirling) that would've gotten lost otherwise get big, but it also let a lot of crap get through the flood gates.
It doesn't help prog's case that it's a bit behind the times with all of this. Most prog music videos are quite frankly uninteresting and poorly produced in a time when the music video is actually important. The only prog band I can think of that actually uses Patreon is Ne Obliviscaris. A lot of big prog artists don't even have their music on streaming services (like Neal Morse, early Spock's Beard, and Tool). A lot of prog artists are stuck in the past and--quite ironically--not embracing all the progress that's been happening in the music industry. People like Steven Wilson are often outright hypercritical of modern music, which certainly doesn't help matters. Doesn't help that a lot of the fans support this behavior. :v
That said, there are a LOT of good progressive bands that have come out in the last decade or so. Ne Obliviscaris, iamthemorning, The Anchoress, The Dear Hunter, Haken, Animals as Leaders, Diablo Swing Orchestra, The Algorithm...There's a lot of cool new things being done in rock/metal music right now if you know how and where to look for it. These bands aren't as big as say DT or PT sure, but they're just starting out. Most of the contemporary big prog bands we know didn't start big. They grew over the years. The recent bands just haven't had much time to do that yet.
tl;dr: the music industry has a whole is going through drastic changes and prog has been slow to keep up with the times, there's a lower barrier to entry which lets a lot of crappy bands in, little money in prog, and there are good prog bands that just haven't grown big yet.
-
I actually think the genre is experiencing a resurgence with some young blood -- Animals as Leaders, The Contortionist, Caligula's Horse, Haken, Teramaze and Tesseract, in particular, are all young progressive metal bands that are doing great things and attracting nice crowds at their shows. Another up-and-coming progressive metal band named Valis Ablaze just released a sick debut album that should put them on the map. Then you have the established bands -- like Dream Theater and Tool -- working on highly-anticipated new albums. Also, bands like Evergrey, Fates Warning and The Neal Morse Band are all sounding better than ever right now. I think the genre is in pretty good shape. You just need to know where to look for the new bands. Prog magazine has been a valuable resource for me.
-
I think the point is, Dream Theater, along with Porcupine Tree, Opeth etc all brought a lot of people into the genre instead of simply catering to its existing fans. There's not a new, big, popular band that's doing that right now. Sure, your favorite prog bands might still be making cool new music that you like, but I don't think that's what OP was referring to by "fizzing out."
-
I think the point is, Dream Theater, along with Thundersword, Porcupine Tree, Opeth etc all brought a lot of people into the genre instead of simply catering to its existing fans. There's not a new, big, popular band that's doing that right now. Sure, your favorite prog bands might still be making cool new music that you like, but I don't think that's what OP was referring to by "fizzing out."
Well said, gotta agree that the genre lacks popular ambassadors with wide appeal to outside listeners.
-
I've been online for 20+ years and this is the first time I've ever heard of this band called 'Thundersword.' What's the word on them?
-
I think the point is, Dream Theater, along with Thundersword, Porcupine Tree, Opeth etc all brought a lot of people into the genre instead of simply catering to its existing fans. There's not a new, big, popular band that's doing that right now. Sure, your favorite prog bands might still be making cool new music that you like, but I don't think that's what OP was referring to by "fizzing out."
Well said, gotta agree that the genre lacks popular ambassadors with wide appeal to outside listeners.
But isn't that most genres? I don't think the fizzing out is at all related to just prog, but all genres that aren't pop and whatever is popular at the moment.
-
I've been online for 20+ years and this is the first time I've ever heard of this band called 'Thundersword.' What's the word on them?
Brace yourself
https://soundcloud.com/thundersword/dawn-of-the-age-of-the
-
I've been online for 20+ years and this is the first time I've ever heard of this band called 'Thundersword.' What's the word on them?
Brace yourself
https://soundcloud.com/thundersword/dawn-of-the-age-of-the
I've not only been thoroughly trolled, I played myself. Well done.
-
I've been online for 20+ years and this is the first time I've ever heard of this band called 'Thundersword.' What's the word on them?
It's a joke band that some people here made up when we had a lot of time on our hands lol. I just brought it up cause some of the original minds behind it are in this thread.
-
I've been online for 20+ years and this is the first time I've ever heard of this band called 'Thundersword.' What's the word on them?
It's a joke band that some people here made up when we had a lot of time on our hands lol. I just brought it up cause some of the original minds behind it are in this thread.
I gotta admit I'm a little disappointed now, because 'Thundersword' is a damn cool name :lol :2metal:
-
I've been online for 20+ years and this is the first time I've ever heard of this band called 'Thundersword.' What's the word on them?
They're slightly more popular than Six Roaming Owls, depending on who you talk to.
-
You want an exciting young prog metal band? Look up Maschine, and thank me later.
The music is all there for people who are willing to search for it. Not everything has to be handed to you on a plate. And those who choose to search are rewarded with some of the most exciting music ever made. And it's music of OUR time! The 70s bands had their day...now this is OUR day!
-
I think the point is, Dream Theater, along with Porcupine Tree, Opeth etc all brought a lot of people into the genre instead of simply catering to its existing fans. There's not a new, big, popular band that's doing that right now. Sure, your favorite prog bands might still be making cool new music that you like, but I don't think that's what OP was referring to by "fizzing out."
Yeah, this is pretty much totally what I meant.
I've been online for 20+ years and this is the first time I've ever heard of this band called 'Thundersword.' What's the word on them?
Brace yourself
https://soundcloud.com/thundersword/dawn-of-the-age-of-the
Maybe prog wouldn't be fizzling out if there were more of this.... :metal
-
I've been online for 20+ years and this is the first time I've ever heard of this band called 'Thundersword.' What's the word on them?
They're slightly more popular than Six Roaming Owls, depending on who you talk to.
And a lot better than Krotchraut!
-
The frontrunners, including the old guard like DT, Wilson, and Opeth and the newer darlings like Haken, have mostly gone stagnant and are mostly happy enough to just retread old ground until anyone not super attached gets tired of hearing the same thing.
Lolwut. Both Opeth and Wilson have done complete 180s musically, at the danger of alienating their core fans.
Regarding the OP topic, I never felt prog was a particularly successful genre, "successful" in the sense that not a lot of bands actually achieve the level they strive for. There's a lot of prog that's full of virtuosos writing epics, but they can't write an actual song. There's the phrase "prog by numbers" and I think it exists for a reason.
-
The frontrunners, including the old guard like DT, Wilson, and Opeth and the newer darlings like Haken, have mostly gone stagnant and are mostly happy enough to just retread old ground until anyone not super attached gets tired of hearing the same thing.
Lolwut. Both Opeth and Wilson have done complete 180s musically, at the danger of alienating their core fans.
Regarding the OP topic, I never felt prog was a particularly successful genre, "successful" in the sense that not a lot of bands actually achieve the level they strive for. There's a lot of prog that's full of virtuosos writing epics, but they can't write an actual song. There's the phrase "prog by numbers" and I think it exists for a reason.
Magna Carta mostly founded a label on it....
-
The frontrunners, including the old guard like DT, Wilson, and Opeth and the newer darlings like Haken, have mostly gone stagnant and are mostly happy enough to just retread old ground until anyone not super attached gets tired of hearing the same thing.
Lolwut. Both Opeth and Wilson have done complete 180s musically, at the danger of alienating their core fans.
Regarding the OP topic, I never felt prog was a particularly successful genre, "successful" in the sense that not a lot of bands actually achieve the level they strive for. There's a lot of prog that's full of virtuosos writing epics, but they can't write an actual song. There's the phrase "prog by numbers" and I think it exists for a reason.
Poet's last major sound change was like 8 years ago and I wouldn't call it a complete 180. They've done the exact same thing since and I'm mostly talking this decade. Wilson has never some anything close to a 180 and has mostly done the same thing his whole career. The last album was a step towards doing something different.
-
I don't think Pale Communion or Sorceress are at all like Heritage, and Sorceress and Pale Communion are pretty different beasts themselves.
-
I've been online for 20+ years and this is the first time I've ever heard of this band called 'Thundersword.' What's the word on them?
They're slightly more popular than Six Roaming Owls, depending on who you talk to.
And a lot better than Krotchraut!
Um, excuse me. It's KrotchRaut. The R is capitalized, thank you very much!
-
The frontrunners, including the old guard like DT, Wilson, and Opeth and the newer darlings like Haken, have mostly gone stagnant and are mostly happy enough to just retread old ground until anyone not super attached gets tired of hearing the same thing.
Lolwut. Both Opeth and Wilson have done complete 180s musically, at the danger of alienating their core fans.
And don't forget The Astonishing. If there ever was a poster-child for "doing something new and groundbreaking even if it potentially alienates parts of the fanbase", that'd be it
-
The frontrunners, including the old guard like DT, Wilson, and Opeth and the newer darlings like Haken, have mostly gone stagnant and are mostly happy enough to just retread old ground until anyone not super attached gets tired of hearing the same thing.
Lolwut. Both Opeth and Wilson have done complete 180s musically, at the danger of alienating their core fans.
Regarding the OP topic, I never felt prog was a particularly successful genre, "successful" in the sense that not a lot of bands actually achieve the level they strive for. There's a lot of prog that's full of virtuosos writing epics, but they can't write an actual song. There's the phrase "prog by numbers" and I think it exists for a reason.
Poet's last major sound change was like 8 years ago and I wouldn't call it a complete 180. They've done the exact same thing since and I'm mostly talking this decade. Wilson has never some anything close to a 180 and has mostly done the same thing his whole career. The last album was a step towards doing something different.
Raven was 70's prog style.
HCE was a mix of electronica and classic writing.
TTB has an 80's influence.
Still Steven Wilson but still different. I disagree.
-
Wilson has never some anything close to a 180 and has mostly done the same thing his whole career. The last album was a step towards doing something different.
Um, what? :lol :lol
-
You take the large majority of the Porcupine Tree catalog, his last 3 solo records, and Blackfield, and you played a dozen tracks for someone who never had heard any music from any of them, easily someone would say they came from the same band/artist if not on the same album.
-
When you're a super fan who is extremely intimate and familiar with something you like, you perceive small changes to be drastic. I'm probably equally guilty of this with thing that I love. I don't see the claimed drastic 180s as major shifts at all. And while I'm not a huge fan of him I have heard the large majority of it. For example, I don't hear the 80s style that is apparently going on in the new one besides a few distinctive solos from the Talk Talk guy. What I hear are slight variations of polished and generally somber prog. The biggest shift I've noticed as an outsider is a few recent songs that did away with the somberness, which I gave him credit for.
I also don't blame him for not reinventing himself all the time. He does what he does and he does it well. I'm just offering it as a reason why I don't think the genre has been roping in outsiders the way it did in the 2000.
-
Most bands or solo artists don't have that 180 turn. It's a rarity.
-
Agreed, there are a lot of bands, including in the prog world, that I am still very fond of and interested in but I also have to admit that they're not doing a whole lot of reinvention. Marillion for example.
-
I tend to get into music diversity buy buying too much music from too many bands. :lol
-
All the new prog bands have shit singers. Too much new prog is painful to listen to because of the crap vocals.
Those bands which have great singers - Opeth, SW, Nightwish, etc. - are doing just fine and are bigger now than ever before.
-
All the new prog bands have shit singers. Too much new prog is painful to listen to because of the crap vocals.
Those bands which have great singers - Opeth, SW, Nightwish, etc. - are doing just fine and are bigger now than ever before.
I've said it a thousand times before and I'll keep saying it - a great singer can elevate a good band to a 'great' band, and a poor singer can turn a good band into a forgettable band.
-
That's all styles of music but there always only a few great singers in certain genres.
-
All the new prog bands have shit singers. Too much new prog is painful to listen to because of the crap vocals.
Those bands which have great singers - Opeth, SW, Nightwish, etc. - are doing just fine and are bigger now than ever before.
While I agree with your premise about too many newer bands having crap singers, I do not agree about the vocals in Opeth and PT/SW. I would not call neither Akerfeldt nor Wilson a great singer, not by any stretch of the imagination. They both do a good job considering their limitations, regardless.
-
Akerfedlt blows and is the single reason that I basically cannot listen to Opeth.
-
Akerfedlt blows and is the single reason that I basically cannot listen to Opeth.
Yeah, but you are are weird. :biggrin:
-
Akerfedlt blows and is the single reason that I basically cannot listen to Opeth.
Yeah, but you are are weird. :biggrin:
Using "are" twice in the same sentence is weird. ;D ;D
-
It was for emphasis. :lol
-
:lol
-
I personally find it lamentable that so many people seemingly have operatic/soaring vocals as a requirement for prog music, and a lot of prospective bands then follow suit by sticking with a crappy operatic/soaring singer than rather having a good "normal" singer. (Haken, looking at you)
When I look at my favorite prog bands, (Genesis, Rush, Pink Floyd, Spock's Beard, OSI, Wilson etc), they all had "shit" vocals, but it never bothered me in the slightest. The opposite probably actually.
-
So while I can't get on board with Genesis, OSI, Wilson....but what I think you're alluding to is that sometimes the uniqueness to the vocals is part of the allure.
-
Yeah, I think those acts rather used their limitations to good effect, as opposed to just dropping soprano lines in regular intervals into the songs. It also *really* helps with the live rendition of it. I assume that Steven Wilson can still sing his vocals without problems 10 years from now.
-
Yep, a lot of my favorite bands have what many would call normal/"average" vocalists, and that has never bothered me. Rock music ain't American Idol (thank God!!).
-
Well, there seems like there are so many bands that sound similar, that sometimes the most identifiable trait of the band unfortunately falls on the vocalist, for better or worse.
-
I don't require soaring vocals, but certainly do enjoy them, if I happen to like that particular singer. To me it just depends on the band's sound. I think Riverside would sound ridiculous with soaring vocals, but Vanden Plas, for example, sounds fantastic.
-
I don't require soaring vocals, but certainly do enjoy them, if I happen to like that particular singer. To me it just depends on the band's sound. I think Riverside would sound ridiculous with soaring vocals, but Vanden Plas, for example, sounds fantastic.
Same. Soaring vocals are not at all a requirement, it's all about how the individual serves the music
-
Imo it's more of a problem of poor lyrics or even just general disregard for hooks/lyrics that kinda has settled in the genre than a lack of available singing talent. Even a good actor can't sell a bad script.
-
I've never found the soaring operatic tenor register to be a requirement for prog singing.
Greg Lake, Ian Anderson, Peter Gabriel, Neal Morse - just to mention some of the greatest prog singers alive - don't need that in order to show amazingly nuanced and accomplished musicianship and storytelling.
Great timbres, dynamics and pathos. I would never call them normal singers.
-
I don't think it is fizzling out at all. Unless all you hear is symphonic prog and prog metal.
-
Oversaturation.
This. Not that having a glut of music to listen to and discover is a bad thing, but there's only so much you can digest and have time to check out, and some bands go by the wayside.
One of the better bands that are djent-prog are The Great Discord. But they probably won't make it, just because there is SO MUCH out there these days. And I am sure the same could be said for a ton of other great bands in the prog-related subgenres.
-
^^^ Thanks, I'll check them out!
-
Greg Lake ... just to mention some of the greatest prog singers alive -
Umm... Whoopsie... *backs away slowly and awkwardly*
-
Oooops, my bad. Or grim reaper's, pick one.
Still focking great anyway?
-
I don't think Peter Gabriel is "average" at all. At least he has a really unique voice.
Wilson, sometimes I'm fine with him, other times I dislike his vocals so much that I almost find myself unable to listen to PT/SW. Weird, I know...
-
It's just too little new ideas happening. What's the last new idea in progressive rock/metal? Djent? Even that's like 10 years old now and got stale pretty fast.
At best the current progressive bands are either doing the same thing they have been doing (Anathema comes to mind) OR they're doing something others have done before (SW comes to mind).
There's obviously no shame sticking to what you enjoy or making music clearly influenced by artists you admire - but I think it's hard for the genre to gain new fans when little new is happening.
-
It's just too little new ideas happening. What's the last new idea in progressive rock/metal? Djent? Even that's like 10 years old now and got stale pretty fast.
At best the current progressive bands are either doing the same thing they have been doing (Anathema comes to mind) OR they're doing something others have done before (SW comes to mind).
There's obviously no shame sticking to what you enjoy or making music clearly influenced by artists you admire - but I think it's hard for the genre to gain new fans when little new is happening.
While I hear what you're saying how many bands in a long career change and add what's in the musical scene at that moment. I've always heard people complain about Rush delving into other styles and not liking it or the opposite, "It still sounds like Rush". :lol
A band should do what they want and it's up to us to follow of not to follow. And to be honest, my taste have changed over the years and I don't follow other bands like I used to.
-
I really do think it's very difficult to come up with something new in music and have it be interesting to a large amount of people.
-
Yeah there’s oversaturation, but the disappointing part of that is that listeners get saturated with a lot of shit from the bedroom/iphone “artists” but can’t seem to tell that it’s shit. Otherwise great prog and other types of quality music would be more popular.
-
It's just too little new ideas happening. What's the last new idea in progressive rock/metal? Djent? Even that's like 10 years old now and got stale pretty fast.
At best the current progressive bands are either doing the same thing they have been doing (Anathema comes to mind) OR they're doing something others have done before (SW comes to mind).
There's obviously no shame sticking to what you enjoy or making music clearly influenced by artists you admire - but I think it's hard for the genre to gain new fans when little new is happening.
While I hear what you're saying how many bands in a long career change and add what's in the musical scene at that moment. I've always heard people complain about Rush delving into other styles and not liking it or the opposite, "It still sounds like Rush". :lol
A band should do what they want and it's up to us to follow of not to follow. And to be honest, my taste have changed over the years and I don't follow other bands like I used to.
While I agree it's not the most common for bands to change the game twice in their career (if they're good enough they might have the first wave of being groundbreaking but rarely a second) I think it's also a problem with the bands coming in. Certain bands/artists like SW or DT have been going long enough to know what the fans want and are able to also deliver something they enjoy making, but then very few new bands seem to break the mold in interesting ways.
I don't see much variety or new things happening in the genre as a whole. Like it's perfectly fine for every band/artist to stick to their guns, but then you zoom out and look at the bigger picture and you got a lot of bands basically plodding along doing what they do. And that's something that's great for people who are already fans, but I think might make it harder to break any new ground or reach out to new audiences.
-
We are also narrowing our view of certain prog bands. Like any style there are so many genres and those bands don't stretch too far from their comfort zone.
So as fans buy other bands.
-
The one thing that occurred to me in reading the responses of this thread is that a lot of the characteristics of early 70s prog have been absorbed by other genres. Not just long, non-traditional songs, or incorporating new technology into music, either. You've got 90s acts like Bjork, Radiohead, Sigur Ros, and many others who really took experimental elements of music to a new level, but would never be considered prog. So as the initial spirit of prog carries forward to new and unexpected places, prog continuously becomes further defined by certain tropes that were common of the 70s band and the retro bands of today. A similar thing happened to jazz as the old guard became increasingly academic and disconnected with the new blood. Any genre more concerned with specific traditional or aesthetics is probably gonna go in and out of phases, while there will always be something new carrying the torch that isn't necessarily accepting or even acknowledged by the old guard.
-
Agreed. I'm a weirdo that in my 50's I'm searching for new music.
-
While I agree it's not the most common for bands to change the game twice in their career (if they're good enough they might have the first wave of being groundbreaking but rarely a second) I think it's also a problem with the bands coming in. Certain bands/artists like SW or DT have been going long enough to know what the fans want and are able to also deliver something they enjoy making, but then very few new bands seem to break the mold in interesting ways.
I don't see much variety or new things happening in the genre as a whole. Like it's perfectly fine for every band/artist to stick to their guns, but then you zoom out and look at the bigger picture and you got a lot of bands basically plodding along doing what they do. And that's something that's great for people who are already fans, but I think might make it harder to break any new ground or reach out to new audiences.
I think you can agree with me that Pure Reason Revolution was a band that tried to push things in the prog scene and they didn't last long.
Using them as an example, can it be that the prog scene is a little close minded and doesn't like innovation that much? It's hard to please the current established audience while bringing in new listeners. Steven Wilson like it or not is trying to do just that, with his last 2 albums going into a more accessible sound and the old school proggers are not liking it. I think if more of the established bands tried to go that route it would set a good base for new bands to come in an innovate.
Or maybe prog needs to fizzle out to understand that they need to change, just like it happened at the end of the 70s.
Yeah there’s oversaturation, but the disappointing part of that is that listeners get saturated with a lot of shit from the bedroom/iphone “artists” but can’t seem to tell that it’s shit. Otherwise great prog and other types of quality music would be more popular.
Do we all have to like the same bands you like? Do we all need to find bands you don't like to be shit? Do you really think there is an objective method to determining what shit is?
-
The one thing that occurred to me in reading the responses of this thread is that a lot of the characteristics of early 70s prog have been absorbed by other genres. Not just long, non-traditional songs, or incorporating new technology into music, either. You've got 90s acts like Bjork, Radiohead, Sigur Ros, and many others who really took experimental elements of music to a new level, but would never be considered prog. So as the initial spirit of prog carries forward to new and unexpected places, prog continuously becomes further defined by certain tropes that were common of the 70s band and the retro bands of today. A similar thing happened to jazz as the old guard became increasingly academic and disconnected with the new blood. Any genre more concerned with specific traditional or aesthetics is probably gonna go in and out of phases, while there will always be something new carrying the torch that isn't necessarily accepting or even acknowledged by the old guard.
Good point. Even a band like Iron Maiden has prog elements in their new music and no one would call them a prog band at all, but there's definitely an influence.