Mike Portnoy's "Prog Metal" supergroup: Sons of Apollo

[Madman Shepherd]

...and now its hard to find any Planet X albums.  I kind of want to give them a spin to see what they're all about. 

[King Postwhore]

Yeah, cram never plays the dumb game.  Get to learn us.  Besides opinions.   AMIRITE?!

[bosk1]

Well, sure.  I just got lost midway through the analogy.  But that fits.

Dreaming at work again staring at Teh River?

I can't see teh river at my new job. 

My apology.  That stinks.

Well, I have a great view of the building across the alley. 

[nattmorker]

One of the odd outcomes of this debacle is that I now know that Planet X was so great mostly because of Donati. Too lazy to find it, but didn't somebody post that DS said he didn't enjoy playing the Planet X tunes?

Yeah, he said something like that on a recent interview.

If you listen to Virgil’s “In This Life” album, you’ll hear a lot of similarities with Planet X, because he’s the main writer for both.

If that's true, then we have more evidence of the fact that DS and MP are great at putting the finishing touches and arranging but need a good songwriter (like Neal Morse and Petrucci).

[El Barto]

I don't think the problem is that he's unwilling to accept negativity on his own forum, or, as it now appears, his facebook page. The problem is that he's incapable of distinguishing between good and bad criticism, and even between abject hatred and general indifference. I'd be fine with him rage-killing his own forum, or having his facebook populated only with asskissers, if he only understood the difference between a "hater" and somebody that just prefers something else.

I really like some of his projects. Some of them hold no appeal whatsoever to me. Expressing that point would probably just piss the guy off and that's a shame.

[KevShmev]

Through all this crap I'm *still* looking forward to the music from Sons of Apollo. I just wish it didn't come with quite so much baggage.

Along these lines, this reinforces what I said about Dream Theater post-2010; it became fun to be a fan of the band again!  In the mid to late 00s, Portnoy's presence and personality became so overbearing, whether it was in interviews or a making of DVD, that it sucked a lot of the fun out of being a fan, at least for me.  Once he was gone, it was fun to be a fan again. 

This "baggage" now seems to be sucking a lot of the fun out of it for some who were previously looking forward to this Sons of Appalling CD.

[bill1971]

Through all this crap I'm *still* looking forward to the music from Sons of Apollo. I just wish it didn't come with quite so much baggage.

Along these lines, this reinforces what I said about Dream Theater post-2010; it became fun to be a fan of the band again!  In the mid to late 00s, Portnoy's presence and personality became so overbearing, whether it was in interviews or a making of DVD, that it sucked a lot of the fun out of being a fan, at least for me.  Once he was gone, it was fun to be a fan again. 

This "baggage" now seems to be sucking a lot of the fun out of it for some who were previously looking forward to this Sons of Appalling CD.

That is how I felt. I really liked MP I loved his playing, loved his passion and his love for the fans, then slowly he started to become overbearing. His vocals were becoming more prominent, his drumming started to feel stale. When he quit, to be honest I was thinking I would have no interest in DT anymore because I really thought he was DT despiteof what I thought of what he was becoming. Once ADTOE came out and I saw them live I started thinking, wow I actually like DT better now. I still feel that way.

[Skeever]

The last two posts are so spot on. And I count myself as someone who has been "missing" MP's DT presence over the last couple years. But his behavior recently has reminded me why I was actually originally relieved to see him bow out of DT.

Unfortunately if the new Sons of Anarchy album is anything like the first two singles, I think the most noteworthy thing people will remember about the album is it's the one that made MP shut his forum down.

[PetFish]

I used to think Kevin Moore was "the problem" for not wanting anything to do with DT since he left but seeing what's happened since MP left is making me re-think a lot of things from the past.

[antigoon]

Unfortunately if the new Sons of Anarchy album is anything like the first two singles, I think the most noteworthy thing people will remember about the album is it's the one that made MP shut his forum down.

Now that's what I call a legacy!

[jammindude]

I used to think Kevin Moore was "the problem" for not wanting anything to do with DT since he left but seeing what's happened since MP left is making me re-think a lot of things from the past.

This is something I have been trying not to say for a long time. 

EDIT - I should say.  I still think MP is an amazing person.    But I can see how he would be a personality conflict with some who might be more subdued and methodical.   (not all....some)    Sometimes the "apples and oranges" that make good musical chemistry are also the very same things that create personal tensions that are difficult to overcome.   

[Lethean]

Unfortunately if the new Sons of Anarchy album is anything like the first two singles, I think the most noteworthy thing people will remember about the album is it's the one that made MP shut his forum down.

Now that's what I call a legacy!

I don't think that will really be the case.  I realize the initial post is at least partly in jest, but to be serious... Mike reaches a pretty wide audience and most are probably unaware of his forum.  He's picked up fans beyond the prog world with Avenged, Twisted Sister, and on a smaller scale, The Winery Dogs.  Between those fans and his prog fans who like the two SoA songs, he'll find an audience. I just highly doubt that it will be what DT fans have been waiting for since he left.

[Cool Chris]

First of all, whoever coined the term: "Dad Rock" I salute you.

Second of all, I rather like Coming Home for what it is, but Jeff, buddy, just sing, stop screaming.

Completely agree with you. The VUUR debut album.....Who's in that band? Well, Anneke Van Giersbergen 

Hold the phone... there is a new band/album with Anneke vanLongname?!?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz_OcO7kFyE

[ProfessorPeart]

First of all, whoever coined the term: "Dad Rock" I salute you.

Second of all, I rather like Coming Home for what it is, but Jeff, buddy, just sing, stop screaming.

Completely agree with you. The VUUR debut album.....Who's in that band? Well, Anneke Van Giersbergen 

Hold the phone... there is a new band/album with Anneke vanLongname?!?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz_OcO7kFyE

Why yes there is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAwDw5zXtLI

[cramx3]

Given the VUUR and SOA discussion, I just gave both bands some listens on what they've released on youtube and noticed some things:

Both are on InsideOut Records and both have one full music video and one other full track on youtube. 
Both of their debut albums release on the same day
Both of their bands feature a known name in the band (Anneke and well, all of SOA)

Some comparisons from youtube:

VUUR - Days Go By views: 202,313 likes: 3k released Jun 2nd
VUUR - My Champion - Berlin views: 71,541 likes: 2k released Sep 8th
Sons of Apollo - Signs of the Time views: 225,000 likes: 3k released Aug 11th
Sons of Apollo - Coming Home views: 72,025 likes 1k released Sep 15th

Crazy how both bands are in the same boat

[Cable]

The news got to BlabberMouth

https://www.blabbermouth.net/news/mike-portnoy-shuts-down-his-official-forum-after-18-years-says-he-can-only-take-so-much-bickering-and-negativity/

Late to the party here, didn't see this said...MP shut it down

Because he only took so much,
of our ungrateful ways.

[Herrick]

One of the odd outcomes of this debacle is that I now know that Planet X was so great mostly because of Donati. Too lazy to find it, but didn't somebody post that DS said he didn't enjoy playing the Planet X tunes?

That's interesting. I'm going to have to start checking out more of Donati's work. I've only ever heard him in Planet X.

[bill1971]

 it has got to be tough to get a new band off the ground. So I think that is adding to MPS frustration. He was in the midst of a well-established band and now he is continuously trying to strike gold again and coming up short. I think the most recent Neal Morse band double  album was although overhyped had some really good songs in it. I think I'd rather see him focus on that with Neal Morse. Plus Neal Morse is more of a stable guy and a better influence and I think reels Mike in. It also has Eric Gillette who I think is a truly great talent and is Young and upcoming.

[King Postwhore]

While I love Neal, I'm all for what Mike does now. Hey, he's burning a hole in my wallet.

[KevShmev]

it has got to be tough to get a new band off the ground. So I think that is adding to MPS frustration. He was in the midst of a well-established band and now he is continuously trying to strike gold again and coming up short. I think the most recent Neal Morse band double  album was although overhyped had some really good songs in it. I think I'd rather see him focus on that with Neal Morse. Plus Neal Morse is more of a stable guy and a better influence and I think reels Mike in. It also has Eric Gillette who I think is a truly great talent and is Young and upcoming.

I think The Similitude lived up to his hype (I now rank it among my all-time favorite albums by anyone), but I think the low ceiling for NMB as far as popularity goes is why he doesn't make that his main full-time band, at the expense of all others.  If NMB sold and drew like Dream Theater, I have no doubt that he wouldn't fill the need to do so many other bands/projects. Even though the existing fanbase loved TSOAD, it seemed like Portnoy was disappointed it didn't grow their audience significantly like an album that good should.  For all of his faults, Portnoy is no dummy and he has to play the NMB stuff and realize how much better it is than any other music he has played in the last few years, his new band included.

[rumborak]

I think he also gets caught up in his own hype, more than maybe other musicians. Like, when I hear JP or JLB talk about a new album, saying it's their strongest yet, both sides know that the PR game is being played. With MP, for example with TSOAD, it should have been brutally obvious that the album would have a hard ceiling. It's a niche album performed and written by aging musicians of 90s fame. But, I think MP actually believed his own hype, and when it didn't come out that way, he got bitter and started lashing out at people he perceived to be the problem (since it's never him, always others).

[King Postwhore]

Mike was online complaining that it wasn't getting praise. As much as I agree with them he gets so personal with everything that it shows.

[Lethean]

Leprous - Malina is a must listen as well. I get that it might not be heavy enough for some compared to their previous material, but it's a great album.

I don't know how well known Need is so I'll leave this here - give it a listen or two, and ignore the video if you don't like that style.

https://youtu.be/NEt3O3vMogI

Never heard of them before, but that was really good.

Umm, yeah not to get off topic but that was awesome. Checking these guys out on Spotify now.

Let me know what you thought of what you heard.

I supposed if we get into it more I should start a thread for it.  Just thought this was a good place for it for a few posts - since people were talking about having to buy SoA because there was nothing better this year.

[Herrick]

it has got to be tough to get a new band off the ground. So I think that is adding to MPS frustration. He was in the midst of a well-established band and now he is continuously trying to strike gold again and coming up short. I think the most recent Neal Morse band double  album was although overhyped had some really good songs in it. I think I'd rather see him focus on that with Neal Morse. Plus Neal Morse is more of a stable guy and a better influence and I think reels Mike in. It also has Eric Gillette who I think is a truly great talent and is Young and upcoming.

I wonder if Portnoy is in the financial position to focus on one band.

[Lethean]

I think he also gets caught up in his own hype, more than maybe other musicians. Like, when I hear JP or JLB talk about a new album, saying it's their strongest yet, both sides know that the PR game is being played. With MP, for example with TSOAD, it should have been brutally obvious that the album would have a hard ceiling. It's a niche album performed and written by aging musicians of 90s fame. But, I think MP actually believed his own hype, and when it didn't come out that way, he got bitter and started lashing out at people he perceived to be the problem (since it's never him, always others).

I even think it's great if an artist doe think something is their best work - just don't be angry at others who don't agree.  With JP I think it's less of a PR game than him just being excited about what he's created.  If one isn't, that might be a problem.  At the same time, he knows better than to assume that everyone else is going to agree with him.  I think TSOAD is great and yet I don't really like it - I'm not sure why other than I'm not a huge fan of Neal's voice and I do think Eric Gillette sounds too much like JP for me.  That having been said - I get why Mike hyped it so much and I get why so many others really loved it.  But as good as it as and as much as he loved it, there's no call for lashing out at people.  Neal didn't seem to feel the need to do that.

[Adami]

What do you think would happen if MP started a band of nobodies? Just like put out an ad on craigslist or something and found the best writers/musicians that he could and didn't need a bunch of familiar names.

Think any of us would care or does he need those other big names to get attention?

[rumborak]

Honestly, I'm not sure he could fetch young talent. From a drumming perspective, he's long past his prime, there are a lot of young and hungry drummers out there who can play circles around him. Not only that, but it's a safe assumption that any such project would be headed by MP. Why would you want that as a budding musician trying to catch your big break? A7X was probably the closest he got to that, and when the inevitable maelstrom around MP began, they quickly dropped him.

[Lethean]

But that's a different story - Avenged Sevenfold was already established.  If we're talking about a true band of "nobodies" who happen to be great song writers (and players), then working with Mike would benefit them.  Mike has a name and connections to get them heard.  And he is talented - he's still a great drummer even though there might be others with more chops.

[Adami]

Honestly, I'm not sure he could fetch young talent. From a drumming perspective, he's long past his prime, there are a lot of young and hungry drummers out there who can play circles around him. Not only that, but it's a safe assumption that any such project would be headed by MP. Why would you want that as a budding musician trying to catch your big break? A7X was probably the closest he got to that, and when the inevitable maelstrom around MP began, they quickly dropped him.

As much as I love your cynicism, I would like to point out that Charlie Dominici put together band of nobodies.

[rumborak]

That's true, and a good argument. But keep in mind that Charlie had himself dropped to nobody status after his departure from DT. I mean, there were not a lot of people who knew who he was I think when he decided to assemble his band.
What I'm saying here is, past fame can work against you at some point. When people want to create something entirely new, they usually want a blank slate. MP is anything but a blank slate.

[KevShmev]

I wouldn't be surprised if Portnoy came to the realization that he wanted to lead a band again during the making of TSOAD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22mDDUizmxE

-around the 5-minute mark, and then again later around the 9-minute mark, where Portnoy talks about how he fought like hell to keep the album a single because of how it would affect him, a fight he lost.
-around 7:10, where Neal gets on him a bit about the snare sound. As much as he loves Neal as a friend and a musician, Portnoy's body language during that just reeks of someone who hates someone else telling him what to do or that the way he did it wasn't the best way (which I am sure happens a lot in the recording process).

[Adami]

That's true, and a good argument. But keep in mind that Charlie had himself dropped to nobody status after his departure from DT. I mean, there were not a lot of people who knew who he was I think when he decided to assemble his band.

I still feel pretty confident that out of all the thousands of nobody guitarists/bassists/singers/whatevers out there, plenty of them would JUMP at the chance to play with someone like Portnoy. While I'm sure plenty would pass it up, enough would want it that he could easily put it together.


Hell, there are long washed up 80's bands that find nobodies to join them and replace people on a weekly basis.

[rumborak]

I do agree with you that I would love to see him do that. Just as I would love to see DT get an unknown producer.

[The Walrus]

That's true, and a good argument. But keep in mind that Charlie had himself dropped to nobody status after his departure from DT. I mean, there were not a lot of people who knew who he was I think when he decided to assemble his band.

I still feel pretty confident that out of all the thousands of nobody guitarists/bassists/singers/whatevers out there, plenty of them would JUMP at the chance to play with someone like Portnoy.

Yeah - Chad Kroeger would love to play with Mike Portnoy!

[cramx3]

What do you think would happen if MP started a band of nobodies? Just like put out an ad on craigslist or something and found the best writers/musicians that he could and didn't need a bunch of familiar names.

Think any of us would care or does he need those other big names to get attention?

I think your audience in this thread would say yes, but not sure how much more reach he would have.  However, if these hypothetical song writers wrote some good tunes, then who knows what potential they could have.  I still like to think the quality of music, not the names of musicians, is what ultimately drives the success of a band.