Mike Portnoy's "Prog Metal" supergroup: Sons of Apollo

[ThatcrazyKISSfan]

I'm not a MP.com user and only recently went over there to check it out, based on reading things in this thread.  So I'll offer an opposing view on the situation and move on... maybe hosting a forum is just not worth it.  If he/mods were slowly banning discussions, I can only imagine that was slowing traffic to the website.  There must be some cost associated with running that website.  Maybe he's slowly been reaching the point where the cost benefit wasn't there anymore.  There's plenty of other social media platforms (also DTF) where people can discuss MP more freely so hosting your own distorted conversion probably doesn't make much sense.  Sucks for the community, I think I'd be bummed to wake up and find DTF down for good. 

Yeah I'm surprised you're the only one suggesting it was a cost cutting measure. I haven't been keeping up on the topics recently but running a website and employing two different moderators isn't free.

[toky_world]

HOLY SHIT!

Im torn over this.
I can see how you dont want to see your new album get a lot of shit, and in your website. And it's not any side project they're shitting on, I read somewhere that he intended this to be his main band.

On the other hand. 18 fucking years, and we got discarded like a piece of shit. I do not consider me a so called "snowflake" but that shit really piss me the fuck off. No warning, just unplug.

I thought Mike knew better, as in back in the DT days 2 weeks before and after, he didnt take any new members and banned all discussion regarding the new album. To steer clear of shit like this. He took the easy way out, just shut down the whole thing.

...


...


I was pissed at Mike when he left DT, but stuck by MP.com because of the people, and because I like the music he's been involved.  Now this. It's the 2nd time he's taken a massive shit on his fans.

Mike if you're reading this. You're a very talented man, but I think this was handled wrong.

Now begins the requiem for MP.com:

Octobarns thread
Prognostications
Hey Wey thread
photoshop competition threads
SteveJohnson Ghaal adventures

Is Big Suave around to post the links? 

So many memories 

I guess this is my house now, what do you guys have going? 

[TAC]

"Is DTF still a thing?"


Isn't it Ironic..don'tcha think?

[Schurftkut]

"Is DTF still a thing?"


Isn't it Ironic..don'tcha think?

[rumborak]

Just to point this out here, after JP's forum shut down, and JLB's, and yes, JM's, and now MP's, the only remaining individual DT member's forum is ....


Dominici.com

Awwwwww yeah 

[WheyWaffles]

Did anyone notice in his final post Mike didn't thank DaveH? What's with that?

[TAC]

Just to point this out here, after JP's forum shut down, and JLB's, and yes, JM's, and now MP's, the only remaining individual DT member's forum is ....


Dominici.com

Awwwwww yeah 

Hmmm...So there's a band without a forum.....and a forum without a band. 

[Mosh]

The drama around this project (and MP/DS aren't the only ones to blame) has really killed my interest in the release. Whether or not it had anything to do with MP pulling the plug on the forum, he must know that the timing on this is not good. He could've waited until the hype cycle for the album was over and (as some others mentioned) at least give a month's notice or something.

As for SOA being prog, I had a hard time believing this was going to sound anything like DT's brand of music. None of these musicians, while clearly technically gifted, have that sort of background. Even MP has been out of DT and in other projects long enough that I'm more likely to associate his playing style with something like Winery Dogs than Dream Theater. I expect this album to be more like a heavy Kansas than a heavy Yes: some very proggy moments throughout but under the guise of straightforward hard rock.

[rumborak]

This hasn't been mentioned in a while, but I can't get over the name of the album. It's such a bland "adjective+noun oxymoron" name, it kinda shows that they're not exactly "on the pulse of things", to say the very least.

[ThatcrazyKISSfan]

Yeah I'm surprised you're the only one suggesting it was a cost cutting measure. I haven't been keeping up on the topics recently but running a website and employing two different moderators isn't free.

After further research I see that it was because of the "negativety." It's sad. I think MP is mostly a good guy, he just has some thin skin.

[Lethean]

Just listened to the Derek Sherinian podcast here:  https://www.hardradio.com/hr3.html?https://www.hardradio.com/shockwaves/shockwaves.php3

It's weird - I've don't like the way Derek has handled himself at all regarding this whole mess, but even so I found myself falling for the hype a little bit.  He's just so confident about how awesome this album is going to be, and I was starting to believe it; "maybe this really will be something."  Until he talked that same way about Signs of the Time and I was like "wait a minute...."  I don't know what his deal is, but I'm not a fan of how he presents things.

[ReaperKK]

Just to point this out here, after JP's forum shut down, and JLB's, and yes, JM's, and now MP's, the only remaining individual DT member's forum is ....


Dominici.com

Awwwwww yeah 

Wait JP's forum shut down? When?

I haven't been there in a quite a while but that was the forum I'd hang out on and discover some of my now favorite guitar players.

[SystematicThought]

This hasn't been mentioned in a while, but I can't get over the name of the album. It's such a bland "adjective+noun oxymoron" name, it kinda shows that they're not exactly "on the pulse of things", to say the very least.

The track title Figaro's Whore is what bothers me for some reason. I cannot put my finger on it, you guys probably wouldn't understand. This isn't how I usually am.

[Bertie_Wooster]

Mike should have just waited a bit and started a band with Geddy lee and Neal schon.

[MirrorMask]

Just to point this out here, after JP's forum shut down, and JLB's, and yes, JM's, and now MP's, the only remaining individual DT member's forum is ....


Dominici.com

Awwwwww yeah 

JLB's forum is up and running, sure it's quiet, but it's still there. I was a regular there for many years. Funny thing I still remember, someone registered there to criticize rudely Mike's backing bocals, and Mike himself registered to answer back to the troll, in the "occupation" field he inserted "James' drummer... (actually, he's my singer!)", that was funny 

[Kwyjibo]

JLB's forum is up and running, sure it's quiet, but it's still there. I was a regular there for many years. Funny thing I still remember, someone registered there to criticize rudely Mike's backing bocals, and Mike himself registered to answer back to the troll, in the "occupation" field he inserted "James' drummer... (actually, he's my singer!)", that was funny 

Wow, not sure if I find this funny or creepy.

[Bertielee]

  I don't know if I'm right because I'm not in the music industry, but , to me, a band started by 50 year olds isn't bound to succeed (I'm an old fart myself) because there's absolutely no chance that you will attract new fans. Granted, people already familiar with and liking MP, DS...will listen to the band but apart from that... (maybe I'm wrong after all).

  As I said a few pages back, the problem with SoA is not the music per se which, while being not that good is not bad, it's the hype created that has been misleading.

B.Lee

[ganpondorodf]

JLB's forum is up and running, sure it's quiet, but it's still there. I was a regular there for many years. Funny thing I still remember, someone registered there to criticize rudely Mike's backing bocals, and Mike himself registered to answer back to the troll, in the "occupation" field he inserted "James' drummer... (actually, he's my singer!)", that was funny 

Wow, not sure if I find this funny or creepy.

He can't help himself. He ought to leave that completely alone I reckon, and hire someone to take care of the social media side of things. He just doesn't have thick enough skin for it and I don't really blame him for that but he needs to take a step back; obsessing over what people are saying about you online as much as he appears to would drive anybody up the wall.

As for SoA, generic

[SwedishGoose]

"The Bland new Kings of generic hardrock" does not have the same ring to it I guess but would be more truthfull.

Mike posted on facebook:
-----
How are we not even pictured on this front page?? Show them that Sons Of Apollo is the most anticipated release of Oct 2017!!!
https://loudwire.com/vote-most-anticipated-release-october-2017/
-------
Almost answered that it might be becasuse SoA is not that anticipated.... but refrained from it

[ganpondorodf]

The new viscounts of prog metal?

I am sure I'll check the album out but it's not gonna be a matter of setting everything else aside and lying in the dark with my headphones on in order to fully immerse myself. I wouldn't have done it for AMob and I'm not gonna do it here

[Cruithne]

You don't remember the fucking awesome part where Soto goes "I'm coming hooooome" and Portnoy goes "I'm coming hooooome"?

I think that was the point where I switched the song off the second time through.

There's a world of difference between "can sing" and "good singer", let alone "excellent singer" which JSS is in spite of my lack of connection with his vocals for this project so far, and MP's very much in the "can sing" category as far as I'm concerned. Maybe I'm doing him a disservice because I dislike his singing voice...

Mind you, I'd say the weakest link in this band is Billy Sheehan. I like him in the right context but I don't think this is it. There's enough fighting for space between the keyboards and the guitar without the bass fancying itself as the most valuable guitar in the band.

I've not given up hope on the project yet but I don't see it exactly being the release of the year.

[Bertielee]

Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.

B.Lee

[noxon]

I don't know if MP and DS realize that their core audience is going to be DT fans. And the fact that DS was shitting on JR and JLB (albeit a bit disguised) does not help much when a large portion of your core audience still loves both of those characters (to varying degrees, of course). I also don't know if MP even remember -why- the fan base hated on DS in 97-98. It wasn't because of the music, at least not the major part of it. It was because of his "rock star" mentality and persona that just didn't fit in with the laid back personas of the rest of the band. It was as though you had a jock in a band of geeks. I mean, ffs, lava lamps and static-displaying tvs on stage? Wearing sunglasses indoors? Fans at the time hated that. I was a bit perplexed as to why they hated it myself, because I had at that time never witnessed another version of DT (Dereks DT was my first DT and my first live experience - and I was 18 at the time - I didn't know any better).

And I don't see that they have any strong prog metal writers in the band. I don't mean that they don't know how to compose and arrange songs. I mean, it's not their strongest element. Derek has always had the benefit of having strong players with him on his solo/Planet X stuff that helped him write the songs (Planet X was mostly composed by Virgil Donati if I remember correctly, and most of his solo-stuff was co-written by whoever played drums or guitar on the track).  Ron Thal writes some pretty hard rocking tunes, but they're usually firmly seated in the hard rock category with some wild solos in them, not in the prog category. MP and BS has usually benefitted from other song writers and their roles have been more of "spice it up"-ers, adding riff ideas, composition notes etc. JSS isnt really known for prog metal, so...

The songs are good metal songs, and has some awesome instrumental sections that are just mindboggling. As I would've expected from players like Derek and Ron Thal. But I wouldn't really call it prog metal as such. It does suffer a bit from the same thing I criticized SC and BCSL for back in the day - the "cut and paste" composition style. Long songs are long because of random sections are pasted together, not because they're a coherent piece that flows naturally. And it's a bit one dimensional, at that, the sound is pretty much the same throughout. The energy is similar throughout. There's no "balance". No variety. It's balls to the walls metal. Which is fine, and I can dig that too. But it's not an album that will be remembered as a pillar of "prog metal". It's not even an album that will be remembered as the best prog metal album of the year

Don't get me wrong, it's a good album. I like it. I have no problem listening to it and digging it for what it is. It has a bunch of awesome riffs, and some of the instrumental sections in the longer songs are insane. And I dig JSS' voice, although I'd hoped we'd see more variety in how he uses it - it's mainly just the gruff metal version of his voice - and I know he has MUCH more variety as we've seen in his other work (solo and with Yngwie etc). I get it that the band wants to hype it. They're proud of it. For good reason too. But they tried to hype it up to something that it isn't and thats probably more harmful than helpful at this point, because - as I started with - their core audience is gonna be DT fans. And they'll take no bullshit.

[portnoy311]

JLB's forum is up and running, sure it's quiet, but it's still there. I was a regular there for many years. Funny thing I still remember, someone registered there to criticize rudely Mike's backing bocals, and Mike himself registered to answer back to the troll, in the "occupation" field he inserted "James' drummer... (actually, he's my singer!)", that was funny 

Wow, not sure if I find this funny or creepy.

He can't help himself. He ought to leave that completely alone I reckon, and hire someone to take care of the social media side of things. He just doesn't have thick enough skin for it and I don't really blame him for that but he needs to take a step back; obsessing over what people are saying about you online as much as he appears to would drive anybody up the wall.

As for SoA, generic

Hell, I remember during the release of BC&SL someone mentioned they didn't like the harsh vocals he attempted on Nightmare to Remember. He chimed in saying something like he knew before he even recorded it that "trolls" and "haters" would have something to say, but that he stepped up and did what the song called for. I just remember thinking, then maybe you shouldn't have written it to call for something you can't do? MP loves to be praised as the tireless rock god. He talks about his fans as if they're children he's providing for, not that they're paying his salary. I personally think "Never Enough" is the most cringey song from a lyrics perspective that I've ever heard. Criticizing your own fans? Blaming them for you "neglecting [your] wife and kids"? That's so tacky.

I am interested to see what happens when the whole album is released. I do wonder if they do really mix it up on some of the longer tunes, or what direction it all goes in. I'm not holding my breath for an amazing release, but I am at least curious. I also realistically hope he's able to cope when this doesn't do much different commercially than any of the other projects he's had recently. As much as I think he's a man child whose hubris is his biggest downfall, I don't enjoy seeing people set up to fail.

[Bertielee]

Excellent post, Noxon.

My first DT experience was back in 1993, but I first saw them live with DS on board. And my reaction was as you stated : WTF?!? JP, JM (to some extent), JLB and MP had also cut their hair (MP had the cauliflower haircut as I call it), JP had a grunge look, DS had a lava lamp and a drink on his keyboard....I remember telling myself : Where the f*** am I?!? Hopefully, the music spoke for itself but still...

And you're right about their core fans : DT fans to begin with. Don't sell them your music as prog metal if it isn't. They-we- are bound to slap you in the face for it!

B.Lee

[Dreammajesty]

Hi everybody i'm also from the Mp-forum leftovers  a DT fan since '92    Not a regular poster but i checked in everyday.Maybe i shouldn't have said that i thought The Astonishing is a masterpiece.Well whatever.I more or less was around there for the music advices from the likes of emtee or angra or i would never had found Kindo or TDH.Great to see some of the other guys/girls here!!

[Skeever]

This hasn't been mentioned in a while, but I can't get over the name of the album. It's such a bland "adjective+noun oxymoron" name, it kinda shows that they're not exactly "on the pulse of things", to say the very least.

Interestingly, this is where I knew the album would not offer much originality to the genre of progressive music.
It reminds me of when Systematic Chaos was titled, the guys in the band decided their brand of progressive music was "chaotic, but systematic" hence the name.

Fast-forward to those two interview videos SoA did, and you have (I forget) Bumblefoot or JSS talking about how their brand of progressive rock is "psychotic, yet symphonic".

Alright, we get it. Progressive music is kinda complex and loud, while appealing to classical traditions. Astute observation. Anything else?

[Bertielee]

Hi everybody i'm also from the Mp-forum leftovers  a DT fan since '92    Not a regular poster but i checked in everyday.Maybe i shouldn't have said that i thought The Astonishing is a masterpiece.Well whatever.I more or less was around there for the music advices from the likes of emtee or angra or i would never had found Kindo or TDH.Great to see some of the other guys/girls here!!

Hi, there. We're a nice community in spite of all that has been said. Enjoy the ride!

B.Lee

[a51502112]

"Is DTF still a thing?"


Isn't it Ironic..don'tcha think?

POW!

[wolfking]

I'm surprised MP hasn't thrown in a marriage analogy about all the forum fans he's just cut off.

[The Walrus]

So I listened to that Derek podcast (or at least, the first 20 minutes)... Nothing about this sounds like something any of them should dedicate to as their 'full time gig.'

Derek seems to have aspirations of playing arenas and selling buku numbers of CDs. Thinks these guys, who are already well known in the music industry, are somehow going to take off just based on their name and one CD. They've apparently set aside all of 2018 for a tour. Okay? And? Mike set aside (x) years for Winery Dogs/Flying Colors, and then was onto something else the next year. Billy Sheehan is 64 years old for crying out loud, does he really think a band with a 64 year old bassist is going to attract a younger crowd (something any band needs if they have dreams of growing)? What are they going to do when the CD moves a few thousand copies and they play clubs that are 'beneath' their expectations? Mike's actions come off looking so defensive that I can't imagine these aren't concerns in the back of his mind. He loves playing with different bands, but without having a solid, super popular home base (like Dream Theater) it seems like it's become a job more than ever, since he *has* to keep trying to make something that knocks it out of the park (both in sales and fan reception).

Add all this stupid drama to it and it's looking like one giant clusterfuck, silly publicity to cushion mediocre hard rock.

[JohnLocke]

Fortunately for me, I am one to build my own opinions and thoughts on music, and whether or not I enjoy what I hear.

I'm not going to allow myself to be swayed by forum posts, or be influenced by the ridiculous behavior of said band members. Let's not forget that Derek acted over the top when he was part of Dream Theater. Although I wasn't a big fan of his mouth or ridiculous behavior then, I continued following the band.

Fast forward to the present, and here we go again with another band and Derek's mouth, however; I have enjoyed what I have heard from SOA and pre-ordered the new album. I could care less about labeling the music, or basing my thoughts on the words of "fanboys" or band members.

As a former vocalist, I let the lyrics and the emotional vibe of the music guide me.

Sure, it's not DT, but I personally feel that this band has a great sound and vibe, and I'm more than happy and excited to see what the whole album offers.

[Peter Mc]

The whole prog/non-prog thing is a bit of an issue for me as I have not really been sold on Mike's other projects since leaving DT, it wouldn't have mattered though if these new songs were brilliant hard rock songs and blew me away.  A return to prog metal though had me excited about what he'd come up with, not a massive fan of DS even when in DT (loved his solos as he has a cool lead sound but nothing inspired about his playing in the rest of the song for me) but Mike promised full on superstars for the other members and I was cautiously optimistic.

That optimism fell a bit when the other members were announced and it was Ron Thal and JSS who are not even remotely big names and not known as great songwriters.  Billy Sheehan is famous as bass players go but, even so, he's only a bass player, he will not make or break a band.  Optimism dropped further when the sample was released and it just sounded like the uninspired parts of Falling Into Infinity.  Now two songs have been released and they are utterly average in my opinion, not terrible or unlistenable but nothing remotely special or nothing that hasn't already been done a thousand times, and much better, by other bands.  Unless these songs are the worst things on the album (in which case why use them to promote the album) then I cannot see SOA lasting beyond 2 albums at the most and they will be touring small clubs just like AMob, WD etc.

[gzarruk]

Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.

B.Lee

Completely agree with you. The VUUR debut album is being released the same day and I'm much more excited about it than SOA. They (Vuur) promised a prog metal album and the two songs they've released are exactly that: prog metal, and, imo, are much better than Sings of the Time and Coming Home.
Who's in that band? Well, Anneke Van Giersbergen and no other big names, but still they managed to create a fresh new sound/approach for prog metal. You don't need an all-star lineup, just good writers and a clear direction for your music.

Maybe Mike or Derek could learn a thing or two from them.

[Bertielee]

Release of the year, no way! To be that, you have to release something that really stands out because it is very original, well-written...which the 2 SoA tracks released so far are not, imo.

B.Lee

Completely agree with you. The VUUR debut album is being released the same day and I'm much more excited about it than SOA. They (Vuur) promised a prog metal album and the two songs they've released are exactly that: prog metal, and, imo, are much better than Sings of the Time and Coming Home.
Who's in that band? Well, Anneke Van Giersbergen and no other big names, but still they managed to create a fresh new sound/approach for prog metal. You don't need an all-star lineup, just good writers and a clear direction for your music.

Maybe Mike or Derek could learn a thing or two from them.

Yeah, for sure, big names don't necessarily make big albums.

B.Lee