Dream Theater self titled album discussion - [SPOILER FREE DISCUSSION ONLY]

[serrano]

Well, I would honestly bestow the word "great" on any song from Images, any day of the week.

Same for Awake, except for Lie and The Mirror. From there on it's been more of a mixed bag, with many average lyrics, a lot of great peaks and a few lows. But overall I would lie if I said that I'm a DT fan despite their lyrics.

This.

And i think there was a big improvement in the lyrics in ADTOE.

I like some lyrics from SC and BCSL, but I totally agree with you. ADTOE really improved both lyrics and instrumentals.
I think there's more to come...the new album will be even better with Mangini working in the whole process.

I love ItPoE and TMOLS both lyrically and instrumental. BCSL not that much

/controversy

[Voices]

Well, I would honestly bestow the word "great" on any song from Images, any day of the week.

Same for Awake, except for Lie and The Mirror. From there on it's been more of a mixed bag, with many average lyrics, a lot of great peaks and a few lows. But overall I would lie if I said that I'm a DT fan despite their lyrics.

This.

And i think there was a big improvement in the lyrics in ADTOE.

I like some lyrics from SC and BCSL, but I totally agree with you. ADTOE really improved both lyrics and instrumentals.
I think there's more to come...the new album will be even better with Mangini working in the whole process.

I love ItPoE and TMOLS both lyrically and instrumental. BCSL not that much

/controversy

ITPOE is really great. TMOLS is a bit cliche to me, but I like it too. From BCSL, I like the smooth section from ANTR and the lyrics from AROP too. But BCSL is one of the worst DT albuns lyrically speaking, in my opinion.

[eosforum]

For the record, I would love to have MM's hair. It is far more than my own.

I would like to have any of their hair, really. I'm only 22 and my hair is falling apart in the worst imaginable way. 

So.......JR's then?

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

His goatee is epic.

[Perpetual Change]

Call me a party pooper, but aside from a few lyrics, that clip didn't tell us anything we didn't know about the band already.  And no new music was featured, so, yeah.

Pretty much my thoughts as well, I'll be interested in seeing more full-length studio footage when/if available.

[Jaffa]

I mean, the lyrics to Under A Glass Moon sound nice, but they're basically just gibberish. The same could be said for Metropolis, really. The only reason we know what it's about is because the band told us.

To clarify, I don't think that lyrics actually have to mean anything to be good. But it does bother me when these sort of "nonsense" lyrics are regarded as great. But, that's just my opinion.

I just wanted to chime in as someone who tends to adore 'nonsense' lyrics.  I treasure anything that inspires my imagination and puts me in a creative mood, and lyrics like those of Metropolis and Under a Glass Moon do exactly that for me.  They have a dream-like quality that fills me with creative energy and takes my mind places it wouldn't go on its own.  And that, to me, is an absolutely beautiful thing. 

That's not to say that these types of lyrics are inherently superior to other styles, of course.  There's a lot to be said for more straight-forward lyrics, and lyrics with deeper meanings are wonderful.  But 'nonsense' lyrics can be great, too. 

Anyway, sorry for the tangent.  Just wanted to provide a counterpoint. 

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I mean, the lyrics to Under A Glass Moon sound nice, but they're basically just gibberish. The same could be said for Metropolis, really. The only reason we know what it's about is because the band told us.

To clarify, I don't think that lyrics actually have to mean anything to be good. But it does bother me when these sort of "nonsense" lyrics are regarded as great. But, that's just my opinion.

I just wanted to chime in as someone who tends to adore 'nonsense' lyrics.  I treasure anything that inspires my imagination and puts me in a creative mood, and lyrics like those of Metropolis and Under a Glass Moon do exactly that for me.  They have a dream-like quality that fills me with creative energy and takes my mind places it wouldn't go on its own.  And that, to me, is an absolutely beautiful thing. 

That's not to say that these types of lyrics are inherently superior to other styles, of course.  There's a lot to be said for more straight-forward lyrics, and lyrics with deeper meanings are wonderful.  But 'nonsense' lyrics can be great, too. 

Anyway, sorry for the tangent.  Just wanted to provide a counterpoint. 

Oh yeah, totally. I love some good nonsense lyrics. Ever heard Green Carnation's Light Of Day, Day Of Darkness? Love those lyrics. Have no idea what they mean, but I still love 'em.

It's just the supposed "superiority" of those kind of lyrics that gets to me. I mean, your taste is your taste, nothing you can do about that. But some people go about it as if those sorts of lyrics are intrinsically better. Or maybe I'm just reading to much into things. I am a DT fan, after all.

[UryuQuincy]

Anyone notice that Along for the Ride's lyrics were the only lyrics already checked off in the video, and that Along for the Ride is the only song that kept its working title? This makes me think that it's a vocal-centric song with music written around the lyrics, perhaps a demo written in the style of Wither and Beneath the Surface.

If that's true, it would be a first.  DT has always written music first, then lyrics.

I've done this before while writing lyrics - I've come up with a working title that I really ended up liking, so then I wrote the lyrics to accommodate that title. I'm sure that happens a lot. Maybe not with DT since they normally come up with titles like Schindler's Lisp or NADS. But it happens to me. I'm sure it's happened to them before.

And this is why DT's lyrics will unfortunately continue to be sub par. Apart from sharing lyric writing duties which I personally don't condone, it seems like they are a complete afterthought.

I don't mind too much because I've never come to DT for their lyrics but I would love to see them let the lyrics and structure dictate a song as supposed to in continuously being the other way around.

JM's lyrics wasn't wrote before the melody ? I read an interview where MP said that after "Scenes From a Memory" JM was kind of prohibited to write lyrics, because JM didn't think in the melody and was a hard work to fit the lyrics. Is that true ?

Sorry for my bad english. I'm working on this, be welcome to correct me.

[hefdaddy42]

JM's lyrics wasn't wrote before the melody ? I read an interview where MP said that after "Scenes From a Memory" JM was kind of prohibited to write lyrics, because JM didn't think in the melody and was a hard work to fit the lyrics. Is that true ?

Sorry for my bad english. I'm working on this, be welcome to correct me.

You heard right.  It was hard to fit his lyrics into the preexisting music.

The music is always written first with DT. 

[Mosh]

I mean, the lyrics to Under A Glass Moon sound nice, but they're basically just gibberish. The same could be said for Metropolis, really. The only reason we know what it's about is because the band told us.

To clarify, I don't think that lyrics actually have to mean anything to be good. But it does bother me when these sort of "nonsense" lyrics are regarded as great. But, that's just my opinion.

I just wanted to chime in as someone who tends to adore 'nonsense' lyrics.  I treasure anything that inspires my imagination and puts me in a creative mood, and lyrics like those of Metropolis and Under a Glass Moon do exactly that for me.  They have a dream-like quality that fills me with creative energy and takes my mind places it wouldn't go on its own.  And that, to me, is an absolutely beautiful thing. 

That's not to say that these types of lyrics are inherently superior to other styles, of course.  There's a lot to be said for more straight-forward lyrics, and lyrics with deeper meanings are wonderful.  But 'nonsense' lyrics can be great, too. 

Anyway, sorry for the tangent.  Just wanted to provide a counterpoint. 

Oh yeah, totally. I love some good nonsense lyrics. Ever heard Green Carnation's Light Of Day, Day Of Darkness? Love those lyrics. Have no idea what they mean, but I still love 'em.

I agree, though I don't really consider those lyrics to be nonsense. You should look up the meaning, the lyrics are actually pretty emotional/personal. They're great.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I mean nonsense in the sense that I have no idea what they mean. I assume most lyrics do actually mean something, just a lot of times I'm totally in the dark about it. And I'm okay with that, to be honest.

[Mosh]

Ah gotcha. I thought you meant when lyrics are more or less gibberish, like UAGM.

[?]

Am i the only one who thought Mike looked awesome with that super long hair? Like seriously it was pretty great. The promo just sucked. Id love to see MM headbanging behind that drumkit swinging all that hair around. It would look so badass

Yeah, the long hair fit(s) him really well

[Ben_Jamin]

Anyone else head over heels on how this album is gonna kick ass

[BlackInk]

I love ItPoE and TMOLS both lyrically and instrumental. BCSL not that much

Pretty much this. I actually like most of Systematic Chaos lyrically, every song except The Dark Eternal Night.

There is no song on Black Clouds & Silver Linings I can say I really like lyrically. Wither is okay at best, but it's still pretty lyrically dull.

[Moor]

Lyrics should be touching and should fit the rythym, a perfect example is Opeth's Harvest:

Into the orchard I walk, peering way past the gate
Wilted scenes for us who couldn't wait
Drained by the coldest caress, stalking shadows ahead
Halo of death, all I see is departure
Mourner's lament, but it's me who's the martyr

A very touching description of death and no need to describe how beautifully they flaw into the melody.

[phentalmyst]

JM wasn't prohibited from anything. they made a rule that all lyrics had to be crafted to fit the melodies by the lyricist upon submission, and that's when JM stopped contributing lyrics. even though i completely disagree with that philosophy/rule, JM was the only one prohibiting himself from continuing to write.

[JPX]

I just wanted to chime in as someone who tends to adore 'nonsense' lyrics.  I treasure anything that inspires my imagination and puts me in a creative mood, and lyrics like those of Metropolis and Under a Glass Moon do exactly that for me.  They have a dream-like quality that fills me with creative energy and takes my mind places it wouldn't go on its own.  And that, to me, is an absolutely beautiful thing. 

Absolutely agree. That's essentially how I think of DT's older lyrics - and I think that approach was a great juxtapozition with the music. I also appreciated what they did with Scenes because obviously that were telling a story and they did so successfully.
The majority of material inbetween however just doesn't do it for me lyrically. Everything is quasi-poetic with no really creativity or message There are a few gems like The Great Debate and In The Name of God but they are few and far between for me personally.

[Mindflux]

The import versions of the S/T album are up on amazon.com for pre-order.

Interesting.

[serrano]

JM wasn't prohibited from anything. they made a rule that all lyrics had to be crafted to fit the melodies by the lyricist upon submission, and that's when JM stopped contributing lyrics. even though i completely disagree with that philosophy/rule, JM was the only one prohibiting himself from continuing to write.

I think that it's fair that JP is now credited on JM's lyrics since it is a lot of work to adapt JM's poem style to a song. It is just a pity that it took so long to get to this arrangement. More JM/JP cooperation please!

EDIT: Did we already speculate who wrote the lyrics to which song?

I think we know:

-The Enemy Inside - JP
-The Looking Glass - JP
-Along for the Ride - JP

My Guess:

-Behind the Veil - JM
-Illumination Theory - JP (or different lyricist for each movement?)

[bosk1]

I read an interview where MP said that after "Scenes From a Memory" JM was kind of prohibited to write lyrics, because JM didn't think in the melody and was a hard work to fit the lyrics. Is that true ?

Not exactly.  This is more accurate:

JM wasn't prohibited from anything. they made a rule that all lyrics had to be crafted to fit the melodies by the lyricist upon submission, and that's when JM stopped contributing lyrics. even though i completely disagree with that philosophy/rule, JM was the only one prohibiting himself from continuing to write.

[tiagodon]

I agree 100%, Ninja! I don't like the lyrics to Learning to Live either. Sounds like a 9-year-old wrote that.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I believe it's gonna be on same proportion as ADTOE, everything Petrucci except one Myung lyric and one LaBrie lyric.

[serrano]

I believe it's gonna be on same proportion as ADTOE, everything Petrucci except one Myung lyric and one LaBrie lyric.

I was thinking the same but  if JR wrote something.

[bosk1]

I agree 100%, Ninja! I don't like the lyrics to Learning to Live either. Sounds like a 9-year-old wrote that.

Tiagodon, I believe you have already been spoken to about some of your posts, even though you have not received a formal warning before this.  But these kinds of posts are not appropriate.

12. Insults or senseless bashing of the current or former band members of Dream Theater and/or their music will not be tolerated.  Honest, open critique is always allowed, provided it does not cross the line and become bashing, belittling, etc.

 

There is nothing constructive at all about the way you worded your post.  Please familiarize yourself with the forum rules if you have not done so already.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I believe it's gonna be on same proportion as ADTOE, everything Petrucci except one Myung lyric and one LaBrie lyric.

I was thinking the same but  if JR wrote something.

That would be very cool, but it doubt it since JR himself has expressed lack of interest in writing lyrics for DT. I believe he said on an interview something like "the other guys got the lyric department more than covered, so I might just as well focus in doing my thing".

[The Stray Seed]

I agree 100%, Ninja! I don't like the lyrics to Learning to Live either. Sounds like a 9-year-old wrote that.

I was wondering if I even new the meaning of "nature's inflexible grace" when I was nine.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I agree 100%, Ninja! I don't like the lyrics to Learning to Live either. Sounds like a 9-year-old wrote that.

9-year olds writing about AIDS, makes sense.

[serrano]

I agree 100%, Ninja! I don't like the lyrics to Learning to Live either. Sounds like a 9-year-old wrote that.

9-year olds writing about AIDS, makes sense.

An overmature and quite talented 9-year old

[tiagodon]

Sorry. I just enjoy open conversations.

[fadetoblackdude7]

We need more JLB lyrics!

[serrano]

Just my opinion, i'm ok if you have a different one, i enjoy open conversations as well.

[Labrie1984]

Stop posting boring and senseless In studio video updates and give us some new musical content. Please DT!!!! We need an album teaser or a single!

[Moor]

Just my opinion, i'm ok if you have a different one, i enjoy open conversations as well.

I suggest you go through the LTL lyrics again and read them as a testimony from someone having AIDS and learning to live with his disease; I am sure your verdict will change to the extent of requiring parental advisory   

[serrano]

Just my opinion, i'm ok if you have a different one, i enjoy open conversations as well.

I suggest you go through the LTL lyrics again and read them as a testimony from someone having AIDS and learning to live with his disease; I am sure your verdict will change to the extent of requiring parental advisory 

Based on your opinion, do you think you quoted the right one?