Legend of Zelda Official DTF Discussion Thread

[AcidLameLTE]

<<Accidentally hit quote instead of modify>>

I HATE IT WHEN THAT HAPPENS

[Ħ]

Dude, I agree that OoT/WW/TP feature the same Ganon.  I was mostly referring to the gameboy/nes/snes/Four Swords ones.  There's a quote by the Four Sword Ganon where he says he's an ancient demon reborn or something like that.

Could be that Demise is reborn in some of the other villains...but in lots of cases they are working alongside Ganon.  For example Agahnim, Vaati, and Zant are all bad dudes but they are Ganon's lackeys and not Ganon himself, so I don't think they could also be an incarnation of Demise.

But yeah, I guess it wouldn't change the timeline that much if Demise was embodied in all of the Zelda villains.  I do think that the multiple Ganon thing does help the timeline theorist, because IIRC he dies in about 4 games (TP, TWW, ALTTP, and TLOZ) and since the split timeline only permits 2 deaths if he's the same Ganon, now that we know there are multiple Ganons there are now less plotholes to fill.

Do you have your own Timeline theory by any chance?  I used to love thinking about it and debating over it....I've got a huge file saved on my computer from a long time ago, and I think mine went something like this:

------------------MM--TP--FS/FSA--ALTTP/OoX/LA
-----------------/
SS--TMC--OoT
-----------------\
------------------TWW/PH--ST--TLOZ/TAOL

[Pols Voice]

It's weird. Even though Zelda is easily my favorite game series, I never put much thought into the whole timeline thing. It's amusing to read about now and then, but that's it.

Now I'll be staying out of this thread to avoid teh SS spoilerz.

[Ħ]

The timeline thing is not too hard...I mean, only a few games are hard to place (and I've changed my mind a million times.

But this is what is widely accepted and pretty much confirmed by the developers:

              MM--TP
             /
SS--OOT
             \
               TWW/PH--ST

After that it gets tricky, especially since there's a LOT of retconning...some people like to be really really focused on the specifics (i.e. this waterfall was here in this game and not in this game so they must be separate Hyrules) but I try to be more general, like "Where is the Master Sword at this point in time?"

[Cable]

It's weird. Even though Zelda is easily my favorite game series, I never put much thought into the whole timeline thing. It's amusing to read about now and then, but that's it.

I agree about the timeline thing. A review I read of Twilight Princess mentioning it being a re-imagining of the story. So I look as Zelda's as stand alone games and stories. While the themes and characters are more or less the same, the time of events is isolated. Kind of like Final Fantasy minus the recent trend of sequels.

I think Nintendo trying to now make a cohesive story is a bit odd, considering the big three all have never really been known for their stories and being bonded together timeline and universe wise. Maybe it is just a sign of the times, and them noticing that other franchises have better overall stories. When I play Super Mario World, I do not care where it fits into the Mario timeline with Super Mario Galaxy 2. Nor do I care when playing Super Metroid and where that fits next to Metroid Prime 3. I think the game designers never thought about that back when about what the timeline would be for a game 10-15 years later.

[Super Dude]

Dude, I agree that OoT/WW/TP feature the same Ganon.  I was mostly referring to the gameboy/nes/snes/Four Swords ones.  There's a quote by the Four Sword Ganon where he says he's an ancient demon reborn or something like that.

Could be that Demise is reborn in some of the other villains...but in lots of cases they are working alongside Ganon.  For example Agahnim, Vaati, and Zant are all bad dudes but they are Ganon's lackeys and not Ganon himself, so I don't think they could also be an incarnation of Demise.

But yeah, I guess it wouldn't change the timeline that much if Demise was embodied in all of the Zelda villains.  I do think that the multiple Ganon thing does help the timeline theorist, because IIRC he dies in about 4 games (TP, TWW, ALTTP, and TLOZ) and since the split timeline only permits 2 deaths if he's the same Ganon, now that we know there are multiple Ganons there are now less plotholes to fill.

Do you have your own Timeline theory by any chance?  I used to love thinking about it and debating over it....I've got a huge file saved on my computer from a long time ago, and I think mine went something like this:

------------------MM--TP--FS/FSA--ALTTP/OoX/LA
-----------------/
SS--TMC--OoT
-----------------\
------------------TWW/PH--ST--TLOZ/TAOL

That's pretty much how I have it, actually. I think ALttP and TLOZ/AoL are in the Child Timeline though, personally.

This is the one I agree with most: https://zeldatimeline.com/

[Ħ]

So I look as Zelda's as stand alone games and stories. While the themes and characters are more or less the same, the time of events is isolated.

While I think that's true, I do think there have been recent attempts to tie things together, even if it wasn't the original plan.  For example, I think the vegetated Temple of Time in TP is a reference to how the Master Sword is in the forest in ALTTP.  I think that was intentional. 

@ Super Dude - That's one of the reasons why I put ALTTP where I do, Super Dude.  The fact that the Master Sword even exists tells me that ALTTP can't follow TWW.  Some people say that the sages in ALTTP crafted a new Master Sword...but I think that's a bit of a stretch.  For TLOZ/TAOL...those are probably the hardest for me to place, actually.  They could reasonably be at the end of either timeline.  Why do you think it's at the end of the Child Timeline, though?  The only reasons I have in putting it after Wind Waker, and they're admittedly not very good ones, are that there are no traditional Hyrulean landmarks (save for Death Mountain, which , if I recall correctly, appears in ST) and the fact that there is no Master Sword (which doesn't mean there could or could not be, it's just not in the game).
 
EDIT: After looking at the reasons listed on that website for TLOZ/TAOL being in the Child Timeline (basically...Ganon being killed by silver arrows).  I dunno.  I don't think there's a solid argument for those two games either way.

[WindMaster]

I'm a big Zelda fan. My favorite game is definitely Wind Waker closely followed by Majora's Mask. I don't understand all the dislike for Majora's Mask. Was it the time thing or what? What are your thoughts?

[SeventhSon]

My main problem was the time thing, yeah. I didn't like the rushed feeling I got when I had to finish a dungeon in a certain amount of time. I also wasn't too keen on the dungeons themselves, especially the Great Bay Temple and the Stone Tower Temple. Great Bay was just frustrating with the water flow and having to flip the Tower over and over again got obnoxious when you only have so much time to do it. I will say that if there was no time limit, Stone Tower would have been great.

[Super Dude]

So I look as Zelda's as stand alone games and stories. While the themes and characters are more or less the same, the time of events is isolated.

While I think that's true, I do think there have been recent attempts to tie things together, even if it wasn't the original plan.  For example, I think the vegetated Temple of Time in TP is a reference to how the Master Sword is in the forest in ALTTP.  I think that was intentional. 

@ Super Dude - That's one of the reasons why I put ALTTP where I do, Super Dude.  The fact that the Master Sword even exists tells me that ALTTP can't follow TWW.  Some people say that the sages in ALTTP crafted a new Master Sword...but I think that's a bit of a stretch.  For TLOZ/TAOL...those are probably the hardest for me to place, actually.  They could reasonably be at the end of either timeline.  Why do you think it's at the end of the Child Timeline, though?  The only reasons I have in putting it after Wind Waker, and they're admittedly not very good ones, are that there are no traditional Hyrulean landmarks (save for Death Mountain, which , if I recall correctly, appears in ST) and the fact that there is no Master Sword (which doesn't mean there could or could not be, it's just not in the game).
 
EDIT: After looking at the reasons listed on that website for TLOZ/TAOL being in the Child Timeline (basically...Ganon being killed by silver arrows).  I dunno.  I don't think there's a solid argument for those two games either way.

I go for a different argument entirely, and that's the technology. In the Adult Timeline, there are fucking trains. The most advanced tech we see from either TLOZ or AoL is temples that look like Greek Parthenons.

[Riceball]

Is there a convinient list of acronyms so I can get in on this action? Pretty please

[Scard]

Joining the club! I'm pumped for SS. I have the Game+wiimote+CD package pre-ordered and should be at my house by next Tuesday or Wednesday!

Also, from what I've played:  Oot>TP>ALttP>MM>TWW>OoS

[SeventhSon]

Oh, another thing I don't like about Phantom Hourglass & Spirit Tracks - in a dungeon you have to carry the boss key to the boss key door, and then you're beset upon by a bunch of hand monsters. Such a pain.

[TheVoxyn]

Anyone have it yet?

I still need to wait a while till I get back to my Wii but I'm excited and interested in what people thing about it .

[Scard]

Mine shipped Friday. Should have it Tuesday the latest! Fuck yeah

[WindMaster]

SS comes out tomorrow, correct?

[TheVoxyn]

In Europe it's been out since yesterday I think .

[WindMaster]

In Europe it's been out since yesterday I think .

I'm pretty sure it comes out tomorrow in the US... I'm pretty excited.

[Cable]

In Europe it's been out since yesterday I think .

I'm pretty sure it comes out tomorrow in the US... I'm pretty excited.

Yes, the game comes out tomorrow, Sunday 11/20/11, in N.America.

Happy slashing!

[WindMaster]

In Europe it's been out since yesterday I think .

I'm pretty sure it comes out tomorrow in the US... I'm pretty excited.

Yes, the game comes out tomorrow, Sunday 11/20/11, in N.America.

Happy slashing!

You too!

[Fiery Winds]

Just put about 2 hours in and while the setup was very good, I'm glad I'm finally out of all that text and can get into the actual gameplay now. 

[antigoon]

Does it still scroll at an 8 year-old's reading pace?

[Cable]

Does it still scroll at an 8 year-old's reading pace?

Holding down "A" makes it scroll at a readable, but faster pace.

Solid so far. I have no idea why Miyamoto stressed the importance of the first 30 minutes of a game to draw one in. Apparently he had no say on this, as this one starts out a little slow. LttP should the model for an intro...worked real well.

[orcus116]

Is the 1:1 controller thing necessary? I've just got the regular Wii controller.

Also I really hope this game tries to break the formula a bit. If it's the same 3 "beginning" temples, get the Master Sword, then 5-6 "after" temples I'm going to shoot somebody.

[TheVoxyn]

Is the 1:1 controller thing necessary? I've just got the regular Wii controller.

Also I really hope this game tries to break the formula a bit. If it's the same 3 "beginning" temples, get the Master Sword, then 5-6 "after" temples I'm going to shoot somebody.

You do need it, and apparantly it's really good so worth the investment .

[WindMaster]

Imma be picking this one up next weekend. Can't wait!

[orcus116]

Is the 1:1 controller thing necessary? I've just got the regular Wii controller.

Also I really hope this game tries to break the formula a bit. If it's the same 3 "beginning" temples, get the Master Sword, then 5-6 "after" temples I'm going to shoot somebody.

You do need it, and apparantly it's really good so worth the investment .

Looking forward to it.

[Fiery Winds]

Is the 1:1 controller thing necessary? I've just got the regular Wii controller.

Also I really hope this game tries to break the formula a bit. If it's the same 3 "beginning" temples, get the Master Sword, then 5-6 "after" temples I'm going to shoot somebody.

I hope it breaks the formula too, but if it's reassuring at all, you get what I think is the main sword in the game before entering the first temple.

[orcus116]

Well that's somewhat of a relief, though I actually kind of liked the system from Majora's Mask where you could upgrade your sword.

[Super Dude]

Am I the only one here who thinks the OoT intro is the best them?

[orcus116]

Intro as in up to which part?

[Super Dude]

I dunno, end of the Deku Tree dungeon?

[BlobVanDam]

Am I the only one here who thinks the OoT intro is the best them?

The OoT everything is the best them, so yes, I agree.

[Cable]

Am I the only one here who thinks the OoT intro is the best them?

The OoT everything is the best them, so yes, I agree.

I think OoT may be the FFVII of Zelda...the one that is usually cited as the best.

[Fiery Winds]

After the first three hours, I have to say I'm pretty underwhelmed.  Granted, I haven't even made it to the first dungeon yet, so I may change my mind.  However, there are two glaring issues that I have so far:

1)  Handholding

This may change once I move out of the "tutorial" stage, but I'm worried that Fi is going to be the new Navi.  From pointing out the obvious to just plain interrupting gameplay, I'm already getting sick of her. 

2)  Relying on Motion Plus for on-screen aiming

This baffles me.  Why they made the change from using the camera to accelerometer control, I don't know, but it's not for the better.  Whatever gains there might have been in smoothness of cursor movement are lost when you have to constantly re-calibrate the Wii-mote.  The problem is that it re-calibrates the center position whenever you enter an aiming mode (be it dowsing, firing a slingshot, moving through a menu, etc.).  So if your Wii-mote isn't pointed at the center of the screen when you enter that mode, it can be off by quite a bit.  While re-calibrating is relatively painless (you have to hit "down" on the D-pad to re-calibrate) it gets old real fast.  The fact that they added this "quick feature" means they knew this was a problem.

That said, the actual combat with the sword is MUCH better than in Twilight Princess.  It really does swing where you want (you can even swing upwards if you want).  The only time it doesn't replicate your movements exactly is when jabbing with it (can't jab in a specific direction), which isn't a big deal at all.