Do you believe in Jesus Christ?

[flawlesslife]

You said only the Topkapi manusscript has it. I'm pretty sure a lot of Bible-savvy people in this forum can assure you that in the general copies of the Bible there is no mention of Muhammed. And the Topkapi Bible was written after Muhammed.

rumborak

Yeah I knew that. But there are many copy of Bible. Which one is true? Matta, Markus, Luca, Yuhanna? Some historians confirmed it the Bible mentions Muhammed. I've read it in the article when I was at university. (Turkish article) According to Quran, there is one Bible.

  

[El JoNNo]

As mentioned in other threads, the original bible is not known to modern man. The oldest copies we have where written around 200 CE, oh and the Bible does not mention Islam nor Muhammed at all. If it does than I am all ears... or eyes rather.

Edit: To add to this, if it was mentioned in the Bible don't you think that other Bible historians would also have mentioned this.

[flawlesslife]

And a blind and deaf man appears.

You are talking like you've read the original bible. (I don't read it either but I've read some Turkish articles about it and it says; the Bible and Messiah mentioned.)

Ha, if you say all these because you've read a Bible that you bought from a random Church, it's Ok.

[bosk1]

flawlesslife, we have manuscripts that are older than the Topkapi manusscript by hundreds of years.  That is a fact.  If you have evidence to the contrary, post a link to some articles that say so.  This is a discussion forum.  If you have something to discuss, have at it.  But you cannot just say "I have proof and you are wrong if you don't believe me."  Post a source for your evidence.  If you can't do that, you are not welcome to post at all because you are only being argumentative.  Stop it immediately.

[El JoNNo]

flawlesslife, we have manuscripts that are older than the Topkapi manusscript by hundreds of years.  That is a fact.  If you have evidence to the contrary, post a link to some articles that say so.  This is a discussion forum.  If you have something to discuss, have at it.  But you cannot just say "I have proof and you are wrong if you don't believe me."  Post a source for your evidence.  If you can't do that, you are not welcome to post at all because you are only being argumentative.  Stop it immediately.

Bosk, beat me to it.

[flawlesslife]

flawlesslife, we have manuscripts that are older than the Topkapi manusscript by hundreds of years.  That is a fact.  If you have evidence to the contrary, post a link to some articles that say so.  This is a discussion forum.  If you have something to discuss, have at it.  But you cannot just say "I have proof and you are wrong if you don't believe me."  Post a source for your evidence.  If you can't do that, you are not welcome to post at all because you are only being argumentative.  Stop it immediately.

  I said it, I'm not here to convince anyone here. Just write what I knew. If I read something from the net I'll gladly post a link but I read articles at university. I do not say to anyone you are wrong even my documents are so limited about it. Only thing that I can say, the one of original Bible keeps at Istanbul in a museum and I saw it with my eyes and also there is many articles about the religion history you can read just by coming to Topkapı Sarayı and I believe many articles can be found on the net but which one is so trusthworthy?

And sorry for the misunderstanding.

[rumborak]

I said it, I'm not here to convince anyone here. Just write what I knew.

I think you misunderstood the "discussion" part of a discussion forum. Discussions are more than just dropping in and proclaiming one's opinions in it with no rational backup. The Bible version you speak of was written long after Muhammed lived. There are many version of the Bible older than the Topkapi one, and none of them mention Muhammed. It's of course your choice to now believe the one that pleases your specific interpretation the best; but there's nothing rational about that decision, and whoever wrote down the Topkapi version thus achieved his aim.

rumborak

[flawlesslife]

I said it, I'm not here to convince anyone here. Just write what I knew.

I think you misunderstood the "discussion" part of a discussion forum. Discussions are more than just dropping in and proclaiming one's opinions in it with no rational backup.

rumborak

Don't worry I know what discussion means. We are talking about what could happened many years ago but what we have? Nothing in hand. Just a thought in people's minds. I said, I've read some articles about this subject and I am sure if you can google deep on the net something can be found. How can I bring the article that I've read 2-3 years ago, if it would be book then I can translate and give the information. But it's just a paper. These articles can be read in Topkapı Museum. I didn't search but maybe some articles can be found on the net.

[rumborak]

We have many things in hand. The Topkapi Bible is written after Muhammed, that is a fact. And, none of the earlier Bibles mention Muhammed.
Isn't it "curiously" convenient that, after Muhammed appeared on the world stage, there appears a Bible that mentions him explicitly?

Bottom line is, like many people before you, and many after you, you choose the explanation most fitting to your preexisting belief set, essentially singling out the weakest piece of evidence and proclaiming it to be the right one.

rumborak

[flawlesslife]

We have many things in hand. The Topkapi Bible is written after Muhammed, that is a fact. None of the earlier Bibles mention Muhammed.
Isn't it "curiously" convenient that, after Muhammed appeared on the world stage, there appears a Bible that mentions him explicitly?

rumborak

What we learned is the original Bible mentions Muhammed and Christ mentinoned. If there are before and after Bibles, so hard to get the truth about that. Which one is true? I don't say, mine is true but what I say, it's so hard to say the truth, I guess. Many believes Bibles doesn't mention but some of believes Bible does.

[rumborak]

I advise you to read up on what exists of the Bible, and how far the fragments reach back in time. You are basing your whole opinion here on hearsay, none of which is even remotely accurate. And any counter-argument you seem to respond to with "well, who knows the truth really?".

rumborak

[flawlesslife]

Thanks I've read Bible, Quran and Torah. We are living our truth I guess. If we have freedom so we can say our truth. Of course it's all open to debate.

And, nothing I said is hearsay. Just because you are against my though then it is called hearsay? I don't think so. I've read. I don't say I've read the trurh one, it has its doubts. Then some historian said something on hearsay. Why don't we go the library and check this out?

[rumborak]

I'm not talking about reading the Bible. I'm talking about reading about what we know about the Bible. Two very different things. The Bible as you know it was written, edited and accumulated by people with very specific motivations, and it is important to know those when trying to stake one's life on it.

We talked about this very recently in this forum: https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=15191.0

rumborak

[flawlesslife]

I see. I'll check this thread. Thanks.

[hefdaddy42]

I'll say it: it's not hearsay, it's bullshit.  The Bible doesn't mention Muhammad.  If there is a Biblical manuscript in Turkey that mentions Muhammad, it is a forgery.

[flawlesslife]

Like all the Bible. Yeap.

I think respect is not about age like ignorance.

Discussion ends here for me.

[Adami]

Like all the Bible. Yeap.

I think respect is not about age like ignorance.

Discussion ends here for me.

Don't dare disrespect egypt dude.

[rumborak]

Like all the Bible. Yeap.

I think respect is not about age like ignorance.

Discussion ends here for me.

Ah, the Internet classic : drop in,  utter outrageous and baseless theory, then feign being offended when meeting counter-arguments,  in order to evade having to actually provide solid arguments,  and thus provide an exit strategy.

rumborak

[hefdaddy42]

Discussion ends here for me.

When did it start?

[Adami]

Discussion ends here for me.

When did it start?

When jesus said "Don't mind me".

[hefdaddy42]

Missed that one.

[flawlesslife]

Ah, the Internet classic : drop in. 

Oh I see another internet classic here; bigotry! Well played, Hef.

[Adami]

Ah, the Internet classic : drop in. 

Oh I see another internet classic here; bigotry! Well played, Hef.

Dude, I gotta say, you're not going to last long here with the way you operate. I think we need a good muslim here, even from Turkey, one of the few countries that still doesn't completely hate my country. So please, read a bunch of threads, see the way things work around here, and try to learn. I'd hate to lose you.

[flawlesslife]

Don't worry for me Adami. I'm OK. If the bigotry is the way I'm out of it.

[Adami]

Don't worry for me Adami. I'm OK. If the bigotry is the way I'm out of it.

Hef is a lot of things, mostly good, but not a bigot. Big? sure. Ot? Maybe, but Bigot? Nope.

[bosk1]

SeRoX, you already wore out your welcome once before.  It is time to say goodbye again.

[Adami]

SeRoX, you already wore out your welcome once before.  It is time to say goodbye again.

Wait, what?

[ehra]

Considering he refused to elaborate on what was up back when he first started warning SeRoX with bans, I doubt he'll say much now if it's him again.

[Adami]

I don't really remember Serox, just the name.

[bosk1]

He's logged in at the James LaBrie forums right now if you want to say hi to him. 

[Adami]

I have no idea what's going on, so I will just say DURKA DURKA and be on my way.

[Zook]

That dude's been trolling the whole time? I thought he was just a little misunderstood with bad english.

[Birch Boy]

I believe in Jesus Christ. eh saves people and doesn't afraid of anything.

[Adami]

I believe in Jesus Christ. eh saves people and doesn't afraid of anything.

Except gays.

[Birch Boy]

I believe in Jesus Christ. eh saves people and doesn't afraid of anything.

Except gays.