Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)

[MirzekDT]

I love Scarsick, I used to really hate it but then one day it clicked and I found out all the depth of the album. Now it still keeps my interest a lot unlike TPE which I used to really love but now it's not as awesome anymore and it's probably my second least favorite POS album even though it's really great album.

[Perpetual Change]

I forgot to expand on it, but my problems with Disco Queen is not just that song, but with most of the album. It feels like PoS crosses that line on several songs. I feel like PoS are very much riding that thin line between being awesome and being pretentious douchebags who are too goofy for words (or something like that), and in most cases they balance themselves towards the better side. But on this album it just feels like they fall over to the other side.

Yeah and again, I agree again, especially lyrically. While I actually agree with some of the gist of what they're saying, the way they do it is just over-the-top, extreme, and inpersonal. While "Be" and the previous PoS albums got me to think about big issues by speaking to my heart, "Scarsick" just tries to scare me, and then delivers judgement on me with its constant, oppressive stereotyping.

Some songs are good (specifically, the ones you mentioned), but others just fall flat.  Definite "get over yourself" moment for Daniel, unfortunately given how the direction of the band as progressed since then I think the opposite has happened. Though at least the songwriting on the last two discs has been much better.

[MoraWintersoul]

I forgot to expand on it, but my problems with Disco Queen is not just that song, but with most of the album. It feels like PoS crosses that line on several songs. I feel like PoS are very much riding that thin line between being awesome and being pretentious douchebags who are too goofy for words (or something like that), and in most cases they balance themselves towards the better side. But on this album it just feels like they fall over to the other side.

Yeah and again, I agree again, especially lyrically. While I actually agree with some of the gist of what they're saying, the way they do it is just over-the-top, extreme, and inpersonal. While "Be" and the previous PoS albums got me to think about big issues by speaking to my heart, "Scarsick" just tries to scare me, and then delivers judgement on me with its constant, oppressive stereotyping.

Some songs are good (specifically, the ones you mentioned), but others just fall flat.  Definite "get over yourself" moment for Daniel, unfortunately given how the direction of the band as progressed since then I think the opposite has happened. Though at least the songwriting on the last two discs has been much better.

Bolded for absolute agreement.

[Mebert78]

Just saw PoS last night NYC.  I got into them about five years ago and my fav albums are The Perfect Element, Remedy Lane and Be -- with a strong emphasis on Be.  That album is in my top 10 of fav albums.  Anyway, what I saw last night was not a progressive metal band.  Of course, I expected that because I've heard the Road Salt albums.  So I knew this would not be the band I'd seen on the Ending Themes or Be DVDs.  Plus, I know the band's lineup has been reshuffled.  But, to me, I felt like I was seeing a band that used to be bad ass and is now just so-so.  I wasn't blown away at all by their performance.  I felt like I was seeing Daniel and bunch of hired guns who have no connection to the songs.  And the crowd seemed like it was a young crowd that go into them on Road Salt, which was weird.  They were loudly singing those songs, and then not so much the older stuff.  Overall, kinda disappointing for me.  There was no glimmer of epicness that I'd come to love from PoS.   

[Perpetual Change]

I had no idea this was the acoustic tour. I'm kinda glad I didn't bother going up to NYC last night. I really want to see PoS, but it takes about 3 hours to get to the City, and that's tough to do on a Sunday.

Plus, I already know you're right about Ending Themes. Watching that DVD makes me sad 'cause I realize that it really does represent the "death" or Pain of Salvation. That band does not exist anymore. We just have Daniel now, and whatever he feels like doing. At least we got a fairly awesome DVD before it all ended.

[Ben_Jamin]

Wait...isn't Scarsick TPE pt.2?

[MoraWintersoul]

We just have Daniel now, and whatever he feels like doing.

Despite the name on the cover and the obvious quality of the Road Salts, especially RS2, which was one of my favorite albums last year, they really are Daniel's solo albums. And I can't learn to have a connection with the new band members because, if they'll get replaced so quickly, why should I care? I only recently "accepted" Ragnar (since I really really loved Johan) and learned to appreciate his backing/co-lead vocals, and poof, he's not on the new promo shot, he's not on the tour. No explanation why, or at least not anywhere where I could read it. It's like I shouldn't care for the rest of the band.

Dani is who he is, and I tend to both love him and hate him.

[Ben_Jamin]

We just have Daniel now, and whatever he feels like doing.

Despite the name on the cover and the obvious quality of the Road Salts, especially RS2, which was one of my favorite albums last year, they really are Daniel's solo albums. And I can't learn to have a connection with the new band members because, if they'll get replaced so quickly, why should I care? I only recently "accepted" Ragnar (since I really really loved Johan) and learned to appreciate his backing/co-lead vocals, and poof, he's not on the new promo shot, he's not on the tour. No explanation why, or at least not anywhere where I could read it. It's like I shouldn't care for the rest of the band.

Dani is who he is, and I tend to both love him and hate him.

Like everybody else in the world, he's human he can do whatever he pleases. Hence why I enjoy Scarsick, it just sounds fun and tongue in cheek, good to do after the mindboggling BE. didn't he do a lot of research for it?

Road Salt is great as well, it feels real personal.  I have no problem with members leaving, because I know they're humans and music isn't everything to life. Maybe they didn't like the future direction and decided to leave. Some members, I have a feeling, and not necessarily from PoS, that don't really want to be there but they'll upset fans and might destroy the band so they stay.

[Perpetual Change]

Wait...isn't Scarsick TPE pt.2?

Kind of. Daniel says it is, but it's not really. It has nothing to do with the original TPE.

Imagine a sequel to Scenes from a Memory where Nicolas, 5 seconds before dying, remebers every TV show he ever watched, and then every song describes a different TV show.

That's the kind of sequel it is.

[Zantera]

I really don't hope the next album will be Road Salt 3, but with that said, I think Road Salt 2 was pretty darn amazing. The best since BE and probably top4-top5 overall. It would be a shame though if they leave the past PoS-sound completely behind.

[Perpetual Change]

I actually liked RS1 better. RS2, I thought, sounded like a mix between RS1 throwaways and alternate versions, and a new EP designed to appeal to fans complaining about the stylistic choices of RS1. I don't think I've listened to RS2 at all since it's come out.

[ariich]

Wait...isn't Scarsick TPE pt.2?

Kind of. Daniel says it is, but it's not really. It has nothing to do with the original TPE.

Imagine a sequel to Scenes from a Memory where Nicolas, 5 seconds before dying, remebers every TV show he ever watched, and then every song describes a different TV show.

That's the kind of sequel it is.

I don't even know what you mean here, but I'm fairly sure Scarsick isn't just the preachy anti-American album you guys think it is.

[Perpetual Change]

It's pretty damn preachy man.

[ariich]

It's pretty damn preachy man.

I don't see how it's any more so than Concrete Lake and arguably even TPE1, just with different issues/subject matter. It's a story about how all the various issues affect the character and what they do to him.

[Perpetual Change]

As far as the TV comment goes:

"At the end of part one we find him laying on that floor... and that's where we pick up again... lying on that floor having a television set on in the room, so the world, outside society, is being displayed in through that television..." -DG, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6Q0Br0A-y0

That, according to Daniel, is actually the first half of the album until Disco Queen ends, which is honestly where I find the majority of the obnoxious songs to be. Yeah, I get that he's making some grander point about how pop-culture (which he mistakes as "society") offers nothing to the broken character(s?) of part one, but, like I said, the serial exaggerations and judgmental attitude do absolutely nothing for me, and make me not want to listen to the album for what it's really about. It's cool that Daniel decided to tackle these issues, but he did it in such an divisive and unconstructive way IMO.

As a side-note, I still remember what posting at RemedyLane forums was like after Scarsick came out. You couldn't  mention that you were an American there, or even have your location in your profile if you were, otherwise without people (including the mods who were the worst) would start treating you like shit Fun times.

[Perpetual Change]

A little more:

In addition to all the membership changes, Scarsick really does seem to have been the death of PoS in the United States, too. The album's lyrics, the bullying from fans online, and the subsequent decisions from DG to cancel the United States tour because of "finger printing" isolated a few people in the states I'm afraid, even if that was not the intent. Only now, years and years later, is it even possible for DG to start rebuilding their fanbase in the states. And as Mebert mentioned, that fanbase seems to be made up almost completely of new fans... Good for Daniel, I guess.

[Scorpion]

Wow, I had no idea that Scarsick had produced such a backlash. That's insane!

Anyway, to weigh in my two cents here, I'm not that fond of Scarsick, but there are some songs on there that are really good as well - Enter Rain is a masterpiece as it is, Flame to the Moth is amazing, Spitfall is probably the only rap-metal song that I like, Cribcaged has a great main riff, though I think it could have been significantly improved with an added guitar solo before the "Fuck the..." section which could have served as a build-up, and Kingdom of Loss is pretty sweet musically. Still, it's probably my least favourite PoS album, though I've been appreciating it a little more since listening again for the survivor. Still, America, Scarsick, Disco Queen and Mrs. Modern Mother Mary are all bottom 10 PoS songs for, so... yeah.

I also like both Road Salts. To be honest, I didn't even know about all the line-up changes when I first heard them, and I doubt I would have noticed when hearing them, as it's a very different style. I'll say though that I like the more unconventional songs on the two Road Salts a little more instead of those that straight-out blues-rocky (Sisters, Of Dust, Sleeping Under the Stars, Break Darling Break, Of Salt, To the Shoreline), with The Physics of Gridlock probably being the only exception. If the best of both albums were compiled to one album, then it would maybe even crack my PoS top 3 and would definitely be within my top 4, after Remedy Lane and Entropia and before TPE on a good day.

[Mebert78]

A little more:

In addition to all the membership changes, Scarsick really does seem to have been the death of PoS in the United States, too. The album's lyrics, the bullying from fans online, and the subsequent decisions from DG to cancel the United States tour because of "finger printing" isolated a few people in the states I'm afraid, even if that was not the intent. Only now, years and years later, is it even possible for DG to start rebuilding their fanbase in the states. And as Mebert mentioned, that fanbase seems to be made up almost completely of new fans... Good for Daniel, I guess.

Yes, I was really shocked by the fanbase last night.  I was actually wondering if PoS had a Road Salt song on a TV series soundtrack or something that attracted these younger, seemingly non-prog-metal, type of fans.  I did see some DT and QR and similar classic prog metal t-shirts, but not as many as I'd expected.  There were a decent number of girls there as well.  I usually see a handful of girls at prog shows, but not this many.  The crowd was all yelling and singing to the Road Salt tunes like "To the Shoreline" and "1979," but were less loud during the stuff I liked -- The Perfect Element, Redemy Lane and Be.  It made me sad.  But I guess that's the direction that Daniel wants now.  It didn't even seem like he felt connected to the older material as he performed it.  He seemed visibly more connected to the Road Salt stuff, in my opinion.  He said he was sick though, so maybe that played a role.

[Ultimetalhead]

I almost think of Road Salt and stuff like RL and TPE as two different bands. The only thing those albums really have in common is Daniel's voice. Everything else is completely different, and I'm enjoying POS's newer output from that line of thought.

Scarsick is still horrible though. Fuck that album.

[kirksnosehair]

I almost think of Road Salt and stuff like RL and TPE as two different bands. The only thing those albums really have in common is Daniel's voice. Everything else is completely different, and I'm enjoying POS's newer output from that line of thought.

Scarsick is still horrible though. Fuck that album.

I agree with the two different bands idea.  Unfortunately, for me, I just can't get into any of the material that's been released since "Be"    The anti-American sentiments don't bother me.  Musicians express opinions all the time, we don't have to agree with them.  I just don't like the direction the music was taken in.   PoS, to me, was a pretty remarkable and interesting progmetal band.  But they've morphed into something else now.

[cyberdrummer]

I really like Scarsick... I find it much more interesting than either of the Road Salt albums, that's for sure.

[wolfking]

I still think Scarsick is their best album.  It was my first, so that may have something to do with it, but I don't care, it's incredible from start to finish.

[wolfking]

Just read this;

https://www.bravewords.com/news/203611

Due to Daniel's deteriorating condition we regret to inform our Quebec City fans that tonight's concert has been cancelled. Daniel is very sorry to make this difficult decision. This is the first cancelation in Pain of Salvation's history. At this time the Montreal show is unaffected. Again our deepest apologies to our understanding fans in Quebec City.”

Anyone know what's wrong?

[MoraWintersoul]

He's gotten sick and he's therefore unable to perform.
Apparently, I've heard this from a very well-informed friend but take it with a grain of salt as I am still underslept and confused , their bus driver also bailed on them, so now the bassist of Imminent Sonic Destruction drives them around. Holy shit can you have any more bad luck in one tour.

[cyberdrummer]

He's gotten sick and he's therefore unable to perform.
Apparently, I've heard this from a very well-informed friend but take it with a grain of salt as I am still underslept and confused , their bus driver also bailed on them, so now the bassist of Imminent Sonic Destruction drives them around. Holy shit can you have any more bad luck in one tour.

I'll take it with a grain of Road Salt.

[kirksnosehair]

Well played, cyberdrummer, well played 

[kirksnosehair]

By the way, this is how the PoS bus driver quit - they woke up one morning to find this:





That's pretty fucked up 


But we don't know the whole story either.

[kirksnosehair]

If you want to read a bit more on the PoS tour bus driver quitting, you can check out this twitter feed: https://twitter.com/ISD_Tony

[Perpetual Change]

This is the first cancelation in Pain of Salvation's history.

He means like, not countint the entire Prog Nation tour?

[kirksnosehair]

This is the first cancelation in Pain of Salvation's history.

He means like, not countint the entire Prog Nation tour?

No, I think he means first cancellation while actually out on tour.

[Perpetual Change]

Doesn't matter to me. If you buy tickets and the show doesn't happen, it's canceled.

[kirksnosehair]

Doesn't matter to me. If you buy tickets and the show doesn't happen, it's canceled.

Right, well, ok, but I saw his Facebook post, he was referring to canceling because of sickness:

Hey all, Daniel here. Just want to say that tonight's show in Montreal is happening! So sorry that we had to cancel yesterday but I could hardly stand on my feet. It's the first cancellation due to sickness in our career, so we hope you know it takes a LOT to stop us.


I am still pretty sick, so please come and give us all the love and energy that you can muster tonight and we'll power through and create some magic, ok?

I mean, I get what you're saying about a cancellation being a cancellation, but the 2009 ProgNation cancellation was a completely different animal.  That was largely due to the complete financial collapse of SPV and out of the band's control.

We find ourselves in a state of surreal depression right now. After two weeks of nasty bureaucratic roller coasting and endless hours and days of waiting for people we have never met, we finally had a verdict. In the early hours of June 20, the plug was irretrievably pulled for our participation in the PN09 tour.


Through all these turbulent weeks since SPV (the owners of our record label InsideOut) filed for bankruptcy, we have truly done all in our power to save the coming album and the US tour, and InsideOut have pulled every possible and impossible string to make it work. It is with great sadness and disappointment that we declare failure. Pain of Salvation (or Beardfish, also pulled down in the wake of the sinking SPV) will thus not attend the PN09 tour with Dream Theater and Zappa Plays Zappa.


We want to thank the guys in Dream Theater and their management for having hoped and waited and for being very understanding and supportive despite this unexpected and bad turn of events. We still can’t picture ourselves NOT standing there in Las Vegas at the end of August and play Disco Queen all dressed up as Elvis impersonator impersonators! Luckily, a supportive Mike Portnoy burst in backstage right before our show at Hellfest this weekend to break the vacuum we were in and assure us that this was not by far the last train leaving the station, so we still haven’t lost scent of those Elvis costumes entirely.


Lastly, our apologies to the many fans who have already bought tickets, booked flights and train rides, asking leave from jobs etc. It’s really the liquidator handling SPV’s bankruptcy who should be making these apologies, but we have this feeling he never will (shame on you, you ignorant bowl of oatmeal!) so we simply do it in his place.
But let us end on a higher note; at least we can now all rejoice with the handful of American fans who contacted us and kindly (well, that might be a bit stretched) explained to us that since we were not supportive of the Bush administration, we were not welcome and should cancel the tour. We are always happy to be of service to our fans. I mean, ex fans are also fans, right?

[SoundscapeMN]

The show in St.Paul TONIGHT 5/11/13 has been CANCELED (and the rest of the tour likely I would think).

https://www.facebook.com/Painofsalvation/posts/10152044068129657


It comes with heavy hearts and much sadness that we unfortunately must cancel our gig in St. Paul tonight.
Daniel's condition (the onset to pneumonia) might actually become serious pretty fast under the wrong conditions. We want to get back here as soon as possible and rock these places properly - the crowds have been creating so much wonderful enthusiasm and we truly love you for that. We know some of you will have waited a long time and travelled very far. There's not much more we can do than to apologize here. We know you love Daniel and we want to make sure he lives to come back and play more shows here in the US. Thank you for your understanding.

hopefully Daniel recovers soon and perhaps the rest of the tour can be RESCHEDULED later in the year (ala Bloc Party in 2010).

https://allmediareviews.blogspot.com/2013/05/pain-of-salvation-na-tour-starting.html

I regretfully inform everyone that the PAIN OF SALVATION show scheduled for this evening at Station 4 has been CANCELED.

I found out early this morning that Daniel Gildenlöw, lead singer for Pain of Salvation, has developed pneumonia and will be flying home to recover. Obviously the band could no longer perform under such circumstances.

I then tried to negotiate a free show with KINGCROW, IMMINENT SONIC DESTRUCTION and my outstanding local acts in order to salvage the evening. Unfortunately, due to a breakdown in communication, the other bands on the tour package had already started heading home and were now not in a position to make the show on time.

This is the first time in my entire 10 year career of producing Minnesota concerts that I have completely lost a show. I am extremely sorry for the gross inconvenience. Unfortunately these circumstances were far beyond my control.

Advance ticket holders, please return your tickets to your place of purchase for a full refund.

Kind regards,
Nathan Block
SwordLord Productions, Inc.

[Ben_Jamin]

Damn so he got worse....that sucks but thats life and he's better of getting treated at home than here.

[carl320]

I hope he can make it back soon for more tours of the states.

After hearing this news, I consider myself very lucky that the band was able to put on an amazing show in Chicago last night