How could you call anything going on in Octavarium wankery? That whole song is pure prog genius. To this day I still think it's the best song ever written. Everytime I listen I just can't believe how they were able to write something so awesome and so flowing. All the different parts just flow together and keep building and building and building. The melodies are amazing, the performances are amazing. I really don't understand the Octavarium dislike. Perhaps you are not a big prog guy and like the heavier stuff more, that would be understandable, but to say it has no trademarks of a good epic is a weird statement to me. This song has one of the best DT instrumental sections ever written.
I'm not saying you are wrong in your opinion or anything, and this is only my opinion, but I am confused by your judgement of the song.
I consider the JR continuum intro wankery because it's ridiculously long for what little it contains overall. By contrast I adore The Divine Wings of Tragedy by Symphony X which has an intro roughly the same length but accomplishes a hell of a lot more within that timeframe by comparison. I get that JR is establishing mood and whatnot but ffs it's 4 minutes of atmospheric ambiance and nothing more than chord crescendos and sparse continuum.
Awesome and flowing seem a touch flattering when it can easily be seen as DT borrowing heavily from Yes, Styx, etc. and merely trying to put a fresh face on that tried-and-true format to make it appealing to newer fans. I guess it's just a difference in opinions but I find numerous transitions in 8vm to be a bit herky-jerky and made merely in a forced attempt to raise the prog-osity to 11.
While I lean a hair more in the direction of metal I definitely consider myself a prog guy as well. I'm a huge Rush, Pink Floyd and Yes fan and the only Rush era I don't much like is Signal-Presto which is widely regarded as completely non-prog with the shortened and simplified structures they used during it. I love the vast majority of the DT catalogue even FII and WDADU(which I actually like probably more than anyone else on here unless some other fans of it emerge from the woodwork
) and 8vm is the only album that I can't just put on and play all the way through.
I welcome your retort though since I like these little debates since it seems this will be a rather peaceful one