Pain of Salvation thread, v.2 (merged)

[jammindude]

I have an honest question that doesn't *have* to get P/R as long as we keep to "yes" or "no"....

Be honest...

The people that hate Scarsick.   Is it really the album you hate?  Or does America stick in your craw and you just hate the rest of the album because of it?

Scarsick is a mixed bag.   But I just have a hard time believing people could hate the entire thing unless it's out of some sort of political bias.  (I didn't say it was impossible...I just said I have a hard time believing it) 

Spitfall in itself is just amazing because I think it's incredible irony that the *entire rap community* just got completely owned by a white boy from The Netherlands. 

Flame the the Moth is equally amazing.    I get why people would not like Disco Queen...but I still think it's brilliant.    And the lyric sheet for Kingdom of Loss is amazing as well (with all the "tm's" by everything).   

[wolfking]

Scarsick
The Perfect Element
Remedy Lane
Be
One Hour By The Concrete Lake
Entropia
Road Salt 1
Road Salt 2

Yes, Scarsick is my fav.  It was my first POS album and helped me through some things at the time.

[ariich]

Remedy Lane and The Perfect Element are the best examples of the POS sound.

Not sure what this means, other than those being the most popular "classic" albums amongst the fanbase.

What that means, in my opinion, is that they exemplify the sound that had come to define PoS. BE is a lot more vocal-oriented and concept-y, Entropia is a lot more funky and avant-garde-ish, Scarsick is more straightforward and the Road Salts are obviously a completely different beast, but TPE and RL (and OHBTCL too, I suppose) really exemplify that sound that made PoS well known and helped them to critical acclaim, even though of course elements of that crop up all over their career.

Interesting. I think, as you say, it's more about the sound of the band AT THE TIME that they became known and acclaimed. So I guess I can understand why you and others might see it as fairly definitive.

For me, though, the band's sound as evolved with each album. I don't even think TPE and RL are that similar, not much more so than those and any other POS album. There is something unique about their music, but I think that has been around through all their albums.

[Scorpion]

Remedy Lane and The Perfect Element are the best examples of the POS sound.

Not sure what this means, other than those being the most popular "classic" albums amongst the fanbase.

What that means, in my opinion, is that they exemplify the sound that had come to define PoS. BE is a lot more vocal-oriented and concept-y, Entropia is a lot more funky and avant-garde-ish, Scarsick is more straightforward and the Road Salts are obviously a completely different beast, but TPE and RL (and OHBTCL too, I suppose) really exemplify that sound that made PoS well known and helped them to critical acclaim, even though of course elements of that crop up all over their career.

Interesting. I think, as you say, it's more about the sound of the band AT THE TIME that they became known and acclaimed. So I guess I can understand why you and others might see it as fairly definitive.

For me, though, the band's sound as evolved with each album. I don't even think TPE and RL are that similar, not much more so than those and any other POS album. There is something unique about their music, but I think that has been around through all their albums.

Yeah, maybe the "defining PoS sound" isn't the best wording - I just meant the sound that I think of when I think PoS.

Agree heavily that there is something unique about their music that is present on all of their albums. Even Scarsick, where I can take or leave about half the album still is unmistakebly PoS, just not executed as well as on most other albums (even though tracks like Enter Rain are fantastic).

[Crow]

i will be honest in saying that Spitfall is one of the worst songs I've ever heard

[Zantera]

I think Scarsick has its shining moments. The chorus of the title track is pretty neat (though some of the rapping parts are kinda meh), America is a bit of a personal favorite (it's just so quirky and fun), Kingdom of Loss and Mrs Modern Mary are both pretty solid, and the two last songs, Flame to the Moth and Enter Rain, I would say are two of the best PoS songs in the last decade.

With that said, what drags the album down for me is pretty much the rest. Cribcaged feels like a C-version of much better songs on Remedy Lane/TPE (like This Heart of Mine or Song For the Innocent), and Spitfall is just pretty darn meh. The new Falling Home version was slightly cooler, but overall it's still kinda bland. Disco Queen is just kinda baffling. It's probably the song that causes the biggest split among the fans (some love it, some hate it). I think it's OKAY, but it goes on for 8 ½ minutes, which feels like 45 minutes. It just drags on. Idiocracy is really the only one I don't remember too much about. Maybe I should listen to the album again.

[The King in Crimson]

I have an honest question that doesn't *have* to get P/R as long as we keep to "yes" or "no"....

Be honest...

The people that hate Scarsick.   Is it really the album you hate?  Or does America stick in your craw and you just hate the rest of the album because of it?

Scarsick is a mixed bag.   But I just have a hard time believing people could hate the entire thing unless it's out of some sort of political bias.  (I didn't say it was impossible...I just said I have a hard time believing it) 

Spitfall in itself is just amazing because I think it's incredible irony that the *entire rap community* just got completely owned by a white boy from The Netherlands. 

Flame the the Moth is equally amazing.    I get why people would not like Disco Queen...but I still think it's brilliant.    And the lyric sheet for Kingdom of Loss is amazing as well (with all the "tm's" by everything).

Honestly, I would say that I am someone who would largely agree with a lot of the message of Scarsick, BUT the delivery of said message just rubs me the wrong way. Daniel just comes off like a smug douchebag. Subtlety can go a long way in delivering a message and Scarsick is like the exact opposite of subtle. Scarsick is like tying a hammer to your dick and wapping it in the face of your audience. Yet, the political aspect of the album isn't even that big of an issue for me. The larger issue is that the music is just not that great overall. 'Mixed bag' is a perfect way to describe the album. Also,  I really, really do not like Daniel's 'rapping' on the album.

Despite those problems, I'd say Scarsick still isn't that bad. It's got some pretty good songs. I really like the title-track, Mrs. Modern Mother Mary, Flame to the Moth, and Enter Rain. Disco Queen would be one of the most amazing songs ever created.... if it was just a bit shorter. I don't think it's worth being over 8 minutes long. Kingdom of Loss is just... there. I never remember enough of it after it's over to criticize. The only thing I remember is the vague feeling of disappointment that it's a 'sequel' to King of Loss.' Spitfall, Cribcaged, America and Idiocracy I could happily go without ever hearing again.

That's about half the album I like so not completely worthless but definitely not as consistent as RL, TPE, RS2 or Entropia. I probably like it more than BE and maybe even RS1. It doesn't deserve all of the crap it gets but I can understand why people wouldn't like it.

[bout to crash]

I like Scarsick, but it hasn't stuck with me a bunch. I can't remember the last time I listened to it. I love Disco Queen. Several tracks on there I could do without, though.

[Lynxo]

I dont think Scarsick is a bad album, but it has many "meh"-songs. And Spitfall is awful. Sorry, but I really think it is. Every version of it.

[bout to crash]

I like Spitfall. The more I think about it, I like the first half of the album a lot, but I feel like it loses momentum after Disco Queen. I don't hate any of it, but I get bored.

[Crow]

I really like Cribcaged and Kingdom of Loss, and Disco Queen, Idiocracy, Flame to the Moth, and Enter Rain are also pretty good. Scarsick is meh, America and MMMM are both bad, and Spitfall is an atrocity.

[jammindude]

I am shocked by the backlash for Spitfall.   Are none of you rap fans at all?    I love rap when it's done well, and I guess the fact that it was done SO well by someone outside the norm just made it more special.  (for me, anyway)

[The King in Crimson]

I think Daniel's rapping is awful.

[Zantera]

I like rap and listen to plenty of hip-hop, and I don't have a problem with it in general. But I always thought rapping in metal sounded wrong. Linkin Park is the one exception, because they based their sound on the idea of having two singers, with one rapping and the other one doing more typical metal singing, but with PoS their transition into rap elements for a few years just felt kinda off. It doesn't bother me much on BE, and in fact I think it's used perfectly on BE, but on Scarsick it feels more "in your face".

[bout to crash]

Well yeah, I guess that's the point. His rapping isn't spectacular but it never bothered me, and I think Spitfall is a good sort of parody.

[Crow]

rap is one of my least favorite genres solely on the basis that it takes the focus off the music and puts it on the vocalist, but the vocalist doesn't even sing

i crave melody

or interesting musical rhythms like in djenty stuff, vocal rhythm can be nice but it's not what I come for

and lyrics one of the things I care least about in any song

I dunno the lyrics to most of my favorite songs tbh

[Ben_Jamin]

Rap is a style, not a Genre. That Genre is known as Hip-Hop.

I don't mind when people Rap in metal songs, it shows the artist loves different styles.

Hacktavist uses Rap with Djent.

I enjoy Scarsick because of the message, and Style Daniel chose to use to present it, If you really listen to Hip-Hop, you'll understand that It's poetry in your face.

[Dr. DTVT]

The more I think about it, I like the first half of the album a lot, but I feel like it loses momentum after Disco Queen. I don't hate any of it, but I get bored.

I agree with this.  I like Scarsick more than the Road Salts, but I think that is more my preference for harder music.

[bout to crash]

I would have to think about which I prefer. I haven't listened to the second Road Salt in forever because I lost it ... but I love the first one.

[Ben_Jamin]

Road Salt is an amazing album. It makes me laugh how people on a prog board, aren't more open with bands doing different things with their music.

[Zantera]

Yeah, a band doing something different really is not a problem for me, AT ALL. It all comes down to quality. You can do something different and do it well, or you can do something different and do it pretty average. The whole 70's retro prog trend is not really my thing, and it rubs me the wrong way when new bands go back to a 40 year old sound. Still, I thought RS2 was pretty good, and better than the two albums that preceded it.

[Ben_Jamin]

Why is that though?  If a person is really about music, they'd understand.

[Lynxo]

Road Salt is an amazing album. It makes me laugh how people on a prog board, aren't more open with bands doing different things with their music.

Really now, must this argument come up in every thread? If you like PoS to begin with, you are MORE than used to change and them trying different styles. Couldn't it just be the fact that some people don't feel the new songs are of the same standard as they used to? Or is that too big a stretch?

I mean, I love Disco Queen and Sleeping Under The Stars. Both are brilliant parody works that's within a style I normally never listen too. But in the case of Spitfall, I think it fails because I feel that Daniel is just not a very good rapper. Also, the song is kinda too long for it's own good.

[Zydar]

1. We are not on a prog board, we're on a DT board. Not all members here listen to prog.

2. Just because a band does different things with their music doesn't make it automatically great. It's the end result that counts.

[Lynxo]

 

[ariich]

As usual it comes down to the whole "art is subjective, everyone has their own tastes" thing.

[Zantera]

That, and direction =/= quality. I wouldn't mind Pain of Salvation doing a reggae album, if they made an album that turned out to be just brilliant. I don't think direction matters, at least not to me. I know some people prefer their music to be a certain way, and that's fine too. But just as an example, one of my favorite bands is Ulver. They started their career as a Black Metal band, but over the years they have made albums that are pure electronic and pure folk music. Far from where they started. Some of these albums are fantastic, some of them are not AS good. When you change things up as a band, you can't always hit every ball a home run.

[Lynxo]

https://heavymetal.about.com/od/interviews/fl/Pain-Of-Salvation-Interview.htm

Interesting new interview. It was mainly these two points I found interesting:

What inspired you to go acoustic on Falling Home?
We had an offer from a German organizer who asked us if we would be interested in doing an acoustic gig, much like we did back when we recorded 12:5. We are big suckers for variation and challenges so we didn’t have to think twice. We figured that we should record it too, again like with 12:5. Unfortunately (or fortunately rather, since the entire Falling Home album as we know it now spawned from that initial failure) something went wrong with the syncing of the audio cards, and one of the first things we learned when walking off stage after the gig was that half the channels were empty files. I still remember that feeling.

Anyway, after that frustration (and urge to lie down and die) subsided ever so slightly, we realised we couldn’t let go of the album. See, we had pictured it in our heads, and once we had done that, it had taken its place in the good ol’ Plato plane of ideas and was somehow already real to us. Once we started to record it in studio, it transformed and mutated into the very special album we now see.

Damn, that must have sucked! I remember that German acoustic show and I think I even remember that they intended to record that show.

What's the timetable for the next "regular" Pain of Salvation studio album?
Me and Ragnar are writing new music together right now, and it’s seeing the band go back to the roots of the earlier albums. The plan is to go into Jens Bogren’s studio and record it in August or September – but right now we are ahead of that schedule.

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!

[ariich]

Dayum, Bogren seems to be producing so much exciting stuff (Amorphis, POS, presumably the next Haken).

[Phoenix87x]

https://heavymetal.about.com/od/interviews/fl/Pain-Of-Salvation-Interview.htm

What's the timetable for the next "regular" Pain of Salvation studio album?
Me and Ragnar are writing new music together right now, and it’s seeing the band go back to the roots of the earlier albums. The plan is to go into Jens Bogren’s studio and record it in August or September – but right now we are ahead of that schedule.

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!

Good

[YtseJamittaja]

Jens Bogren is an awesome mixer.

[PixelDream]

I often hear new modern metal records,  and it's always 'is this Bogren?' and then I check, and every time it indeed is.

He has a signature crunchy sound, and I like it but it's a bit too clean for me in the end.

[Scorpion]

Colour me excited. I'm not a person that complains about audio quality all that much, but most of the stuff that Borgren mixes has appealed to me musically as well. I know, I know, he probably doesn't have much to do with the actual song, but it is a correlation that I have observed, so I hope that I will continue to observe it here.

[Ultimetalhead]

POS is writing music that sounds like the older stuff, and it's being mixed by Jens Bogren. There may be hope left for the world.

[yorost]

Heh, funny I was trying to recall the name of this band much of this morning (wanted to listen to that orange covered album again ), and they used to be one of my favorites. Curious to hear the latest news, but they've fallen so far off the map for me I have no faith in them recapturing their past.  Their first four albums are fantastic, then BE is a mixed bag before they just plummet.

Remedy Lane
One Hour

Perfect Element
Entropia

BE (maybe even near the top when I haven't heard it in year, though, but I quickly find the talking annoying if I listen to it more than once in a great while)

Road Salts

Scarsick